BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: Simpson: One man’s ballot for baseball’s Hall of Fame

Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, January 02, 2009

Simpson: One man’s ballot for baseball’s Hall of Fame

Major thanks to SWW for coming across the first official NO VOTE for Rickey Henderson. Congrats Corky Simpson!!!! (formerly of the Tucson Citizen and the Glenbrook Dispatched)

Of those I didn’t vote for but wish I could have, Mark McGwire tops the list. One of the greatest sluggers in baseball history, Big Mac broke Roger Maris’ record with 70 home runs in 1998 and accumulated an astounding 583 for his career. But there is doubt about whether McGwire’s career was chemically enhanced and unless — and until — that matter is taken care of, this voter won’t mark the ballot for Mark.

Others honored with nomination this year and who may well be voted into the Hall of Fame, include Harold Baines, Jay Bell, David Cone, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Jesse Orosco, Dave Parker, Dan Plesac, Lee smith, Greg Vaughn and Mo Vaughn.

Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Tommy John
Don Mattingly
Tim Raines
Jim Rice
Alan Trammell
Matt Williams

Repoz Posted: January 02, 2009 at 06:40 PM | 59 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
Related News: General, Fantasy Baseball, History, Hall of Fame, Memorabilia

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 1 pages

1. rawagman Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:01 PM (#3042100)

Ummmm.....wow. I don't get it. He has Matt Williams on the ballot, so he's not simply blackballing 1st time nominees. He didn't fill up his ballot to the max and leave out Henderson figuring that he'll get in either way - he clearly lumped Henderson into the "it was a pleasure just being nominated" category with Plesac, Orosco and 2xVaughn, etc. Very strange.

2. ckash Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:02 PM (#3042101)

Wasn't Corky the name of the mentally challenged kid on a 90's TV show?

3. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:02 PM (#3042103)

That has to be the strangest ballot I've seen. Matt Williams? Raines but not Henderson?

4. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:05 PM (#3042109)

Perhaps he is a big supporter of leadership & chemistry. FWIW, I recall that Matt Williams received glowing assessments in these areas during his playing days.

5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:05 PM (#3042110)

The justification for Matt Williams seems to be "I want to give a shout out to a guy I covered as a writer."

Matt Williams, my first Hall of Fame vote for an Arizona Diamondback player. Matty played 17 seasons for the Giants, Indians and Diamondbacks. Nobody ever played the game with more intensity, nor with more reverence for the sport.

He was the inspirational leader of the 2001 World Series champion D’backs.

Yea, that Cal Ripken sure was lazy and disrespectful to the game when compared to Matt Williams.

6. sotapop Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:05 PM (#3042111)

We severely retarded our own development

pretty much sums it up.

OK, way unfair use of selective quoting, and the guy sounds about 99 years old -- who's called Corky anymore? -- but come on. I thought old-timers loved a) steals and b) counting stats.

you know how most states make older people at least re-take the eye test for a driver's license renewal? hello, BBWAA?

7. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:09 PM (#3042116)

Look, someone can make some odd choices without it being tied to age.

We have had more than a blogs linked to this site penned by those under the age of 30 whose logic would be deemed "questionable".

8. ckash Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:13 PM (#3042121)

Corky will be 71 this year, so it's not a Furman Bisher situation. He retired a couple of years ago. I guess having a BBWAA vote is a lifetime thing regardless of actually being, y'know, involved in day to day coverage of MLB.

Props to Google for the above info.

9. sotapop Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:16 PM (#3042124)

my apologies, Harveys. illogic has neither an age floor or ceiling.

but in general, we post and critique a lot of stuff where veteran sportswriters overvalue things like raw speed, as reflected in stolen base totals. (see Lou Brock.) So you'd think Rickey would be the sort of player Corky would have appreciated. I'd be really curious to find out whether he voted for Brock.

10. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:16 PM (#3042126)

Corky Simpson: But there is doubt about whether McGwire’s career was chemically enhanced and unless — and until — that matter is taken care of, this voter won’t mark the ballot for Mark.
Oakland Tribune: Matt Williams admits steroid use for injury

This is the same Corky from "Life Goes On," I assume?

11. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:18 PM (#3042128)

Oakland Tribune: Matt Williams admits steroid use for injury

Steroid use doesn't matter unless you break a home run record.

12. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:18 PM (#3042129)

he clearly lumped Henderson into the "it was a pleasure just being nominated" category with Plesac, Orosco and 2xVaughn, etc.

Actually, he claimed that Jay Bell, Ron Gant, Jesse Orosco, Dan Plesac and the Two Vaughns "may well be voted into the Hall of Fame". That's not just a big Hall, that's an entire manor house, with English gardens, stables and riding trails thrown in.

13. Repoz

Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:20 PM (#3042133)

Age old NY problem solved...

This proves that Mattingly made Rickey and not the other way around.

14. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:21 PM (#3042136)

Steroid use doesn't matter unless you break a home run record.

Raise your hand if you knew that about Matt Williams. If I ever did, I forgot about it.

15. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:22 PM (#3042138)

sotapop:

No apologies needed.

And I freely admit my bias. Not in defense of foolishness but that age equates to being foolish.

16. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:23 PM (#3042139)

*raises hand*

It sticks in my mind because of his home run totals in 1994. Sports Illustrated ran a "what might have been in baseball" story where, among things like the Cubs winning the world series, Matt Williams broke Maris's home run record.

17. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:24 PM (#3042142)

Raise your hand if you knew that about Matt Williams. If I ever did, I forgot about it.

Well, there you go. Nobody remembers (or cares) that you took PEDs unless you broke a record or two along the way.

The "I won't vote for him if he took PEDs" stance seems to be something that people are applying in a haphazard sense at best.

18. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:26 PM (#3042146)

What an absolutely crazy ballot. Blyleven, Raines and Trammell are great choices - and with regard to Trammell - against the MSM's predisposition. But to leave off Henderson and put Matt Williams on is so blatantly crazy that I can't even commend him for his "smart" choices above.

19. Lassus: Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:27 PM (#3042147)

I wonder if he felt like he could leave Rickey off as he was a no-brainer and therefore didn't need his help, when Raines, Dawson and Bly would?

I mean, it's a terrible reason and if he votes like this he should be stricken from the voters, but there is a demented logic there. Maybe?

20. John DiFool2 Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:33 PM (#3042159)

Steroid use doesn't matter unless you break a home run record.

Good thing the 1994 season ended prematurely then, for Williams.

21. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:34 PM (#3042161)

Speaking of hypothetically demented logic, maybe Corky's not against steroids. Maybe he just opposes doubt and uncertainty. So it's okay to vote for Matt Williams because "that matter HAS been taken care of." But McGwire's still a question mark.

22. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:35 PM (#3042163)

Good thing the 1994 season ended prematurely then, for Williams.

I'm sure that the PED usage would be a big issue if Williams had broken the record that year.

23. Obama Bomaye Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:35 PM (#3042165)

Is the above-blurb all he said about Henderson? I wondered if perhaps he simply overlooked Henderson, which would be sloppy but can happen. But he mentions his name so he knows he's there. Obviously Henderson is going to get over 90% of the vote. One would think those who bother writing a column about their ballots but leave off a clearly qualified candidate would give some reasoning.

And I'm just noticing he essentially equates Henderson with Plesac. Plesac "may well be voted into the Hall of Fame"?

24. Dag Nabbit and his imaginary friends Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3042172)

My crazy theory:

He didn't realize Henderson was on the ballot.

I think the bottom part where he lists the guys he isn't voting for was just a copy/paste from the overall candidate list. Specifically, I think he just copy/pasted the entire list, took out the guys who voted for, wrote a 1-2 sentence blurb on each one he was voting for, deleted their names from the overall list, and just ended with a blurb mentioning all remaining candidates. Note the list of guys he's taking a pass on are listed in alphabetical order.

The reason I think this is the case is that: 1) he's voting for so many others, and 2) he's not even getting a defense for his Henderson omission.

It's a perfectly reasonable ballot . .. .with one huge exception.

Didn't one or two of the guys who left Seaver off the ballot do it because he didn't notice Tom Terrific was eligible that year? I can see this happening out of a body of 500+ voters.

25. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:41 PM (#3042174)

My crazy theory:

He didn't realize Henderson was on the ballot.

My theory is he thinks Rickey bet on baseball.

Didn't one or two of the guys who left Seaver off the ballot do it because he didn't notice Tom Terrific was eligible that year? I can see this happening out of a body of 500+ voters.

Kinda like voting for a guy for ROY who isn't eligible.

26. Morally Excellent Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:41 PM (#3042175)

The problem with that, Lassus, is that he didn't max out his ballot. So even if Rickey didn't need help, well, he still has two spots for him.

I would guess that he has a personal beef with Rickey that he didn't want to get into.

27. Kiko Sakata

Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:41 PM (#3042176)

I wondered if perhaps he simply overlooked Henderson, which would be sloppy but can happen. But he mentions his name so he knows he's there.

I think he did overlook him. The rest of the names he just copied off the ballot, and I suspect that he just didn't notice that "Rickey Henderson" was referring to THAT Rickey! Henderson. I'm sure he'll get at least one e-mail pointing this out to him and if he hasn't actually mailed the ballot in yet, he might even correct it. If he really and truly intended to leave Rickey Henderson off the ballot, I think he would have at least acknowledged that doing so was "controversial" so to speak.

Edit: In other words, what Dag Nabbit wrote (more quickly) above.

28. Repoz

Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:43 PM (#3042181)

Of those I didn’t vote for but wish I could have, Mark McGwire tops the list.

There oughta be a law against holding guns to voter's heads.

29. Suff Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:44 PM (#3042183)

Take off Williams and allow for the dubious idea of not voting for first-timers, this is a decent ballot. I wouldn't vote for John, Mattingly, or Rice, and there might be someone I'd add other than Henderson, but it's not so bad.

I think he was just leaving off first-timers but made an exception for Matt Williams as a "shout-out" vote, because he figured this was going to be his only ballot. It was really curious that he gave no mention as to why he didn't vote for Henderson, though.

30. PreservedFish Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:44 PM (#3042184)

The "others honored with nomination" paragraph has a weird feel to it. I wonder if Corky submitted an article that was 50 words short and an editor had to buff it out with something uninteresting.

31. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:44 PM (#3042185)

I'm sure he'll get at least one e-mail pointing this out to him and if he hasn't actually mailed the ballot in yet, he might even correct it.

If he reads his comments, he'll see that the only one posted is a request for an explanation for Rickey's absence.

32. Dag Nabbit and his imaginary friends Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:45 PM (#3042186)

I think he did overlook him. The rest of the names he just copied off the ballot

Even the guys he voted for are listed & explained in alphabetical order. It's like he just went down the list and didn't look over a second time. He had space to explain what he thought was his most surprising absence, and so went with McGwire. Oops!

My theory is he thinks Rickey bet on baseball.

In that case I think he would've at least bothered to explain it.

33. Santanaland Diaries Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:48 PM (#3042191)

I wonder if he felt like he could leave Rickey off as he was a no-brainer and therefore didn't need his help, when Raines, Dawson and Bly would?

Except he didn't fill up his ballot slots, so it's not like he couldn't have voted for Henderson. Unless he slipped and hit his head and since then has had a strange disorder where he mixes up eight and ten.

34. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:50 PM (#3042192)

Maybe he confused Rickey and Dave Henderson? Or, come to think of it, Skitch.

35. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 02, 2009 at 07:56 PM (#3042198)

Maybe he confused Rickey and Dave Henderson? Or, come to think of it, Skitch.

...or Florence.

36. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:03 PM (#3042203)

...or Florence.

Harry Andthe.

Clearly a steroid user. Talk about back hair...

37. ckash Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:05 PM (#3042206)

If he reads his comments, he'll see that the only one posted is a request for an explanation for Rickey's absence.

That was me. Inquiring minds want to know.

38. Lassus: Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:08 PM (#3042209)

Like Rickey, Skitch is first-ballot.

39. oscar madisox Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:16 PM (#3042214)

I don't know if Williams is the first former D'Back to make the Hall ballot, but it appears as if Simpson voted for him because he played for Arizona and he was waiting for a chance to vote for a local player.

As for Henderson, he may have overlooked him, but a good editor—heck, any editor—would have asked Simpson about his failure to vote for Rickey before publishing the column.

40. flournoy Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:18 PM (#3042216)

I don't know if Williams is the first former D'Back to make the Hall ballot, but it appears as if Simpson voted for him because he played for Arizona and he was waiting for a chance to vote for a local player.

Well at the most, he's tied with Jay Bell, Mark Grace, and Dan Plesac, for whom this guy did not vote.

41. T.J. Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:18 PM (#3042217)

What about those who were late of Pablo Fanques's fair?

42. Walt Davis Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:18 PM (#3042218)

Like Rickey, Skitch is first-ballot.

So is Fletcher.

"Rickey Henderson? What? Oh, I always got him and Brady Anderson confused. My bad."

43. TomH Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:34 PM (#3042229)

With any manual system involving an up-down vote like the HoF, entry errors are common.

SABR had a rank-the-top-100 players exercise in 2000. A list was sent out with about 300 names on it. Everyone was to mark 100 boxes. Well, when you do that, on occasion a person will simply forget to check the "Musial" box or something. In the end, Babe Ruth was #1, but 3 voters left him off of thir top-100 list (out of over 700). Ruth had the FEWEST no-votes.

The HoF should reallly get a checks-and-balances system that asks "we're just confirming; you wanted to vote for these 7 guys (list them) but you left off (list off top 5 returnees from last year's list plus all of the newcomers)"

You wonder about the few people who leave off Hank Aaron or Tom Seaver, how many are accidental. Wouldn't it be nice to have an easy method to curtail this? If the HoF cares about getting a good vote (for example, the 10yr BBWAA requirement), it should take a little more effort with all of the $$ they make to cut down on embarrassing moments.

Having said all of that, I don't know whether this guy's not-Rickey vote was purposeful or not.

44. Dag Nabbit and his imaginary friends Posted: January 02, 2009 at 09:01 PM (#3042258)

As for Henderson, he may have overlooked him, but a good editor—heck, any editor—would have asked Simpson about his failure to vote for Rickey before publishing the column.

That can slip through the cracks. Looking at the Green Valley News's site, Green Valley itself has a population of 32,500 and a median age of . . . (wait for it) . . .. 70.2 years old!

It's a retirement community, apparently. He's a retired writer. Judging by the newspaper's homepage, this looks to be nothing you would confuse with a leading daily paper. I wonder how many full-time staff they even have. It looks like a fairly informal affair. Simpson might be one of the most (the most?) experienced newspaper writer they have.

Now I'm really sure he just plain missed Henderson.

45. Repoz

Posted: January 02, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3042295)

and a median age of . . . (wait for it) . . .. 70.2 years old!

Didn't the Giants want to move there recently?

46. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 02, 2009 at 09:45 PM (#3042308)

Well at the most, he's tied with Jay Bell, Mark Grace, and Dan Plesac, for whom this guy did not vote.

Yes, but did they play with the most intensity and respect for the game? No. Matt Williams did.

Looking at the Green Valley News's site, Green Valley itself has a population of 32,500 and a median age of . . . (wait for it) . . .. 70.2 years old!

That explains their newspaper creed: All the news that's fit to print...now GET OFF MY LAWN!

47. Walt Davis Posted: January 02, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3042328)

and a median age of . . . (wait for it) . . .. 70.2 years old!

Simpson might be one of the most (the most?) experienced newspaper writer they have.

You kidding? He's probably the copy boy. :-)

48. jingoist Posted: January 02, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3042329)

Corky probably thought they were placing Steve Henderson on the ballot.
He was an outfielder; played about the same time as Ricky and Corky rightly remembered that Henderson was a decent player but not his cup of tea.

49. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: January 02, 2009 at 10:49 PM (#3042332)

The HoF should reallly get a checks-and-balances system that asks "we're just confirming; you wanted to vote for these 7 guys (list them) but you left off (list off top 5 returnees from last year's list plus all of the newcomers)"

Really, are there enough such errors to keep a 95+% guy out of the Hall, even for a single ballot? Is getting a unanimous decision really that important? The Hall certainly doesn't think so; guys are in or they're not. There's no ranking system there.

50. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 02, 2009 at 11:14 PM (#3042352)

Is getting a unanimous decision really that important?

No, but getting it right should be the top priority.

51. Swedish Chef Posted: January 02, 2009 at 11:53 PM (#3042373)

"Are you really sure you want to vote Green, most voters choose Democrats or Republicans?"

52. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 03, 2009 at 12:15 AM (#3042380)

"Are you really sure you want to vote Green, most voters choose Democrats or Republicans?"

Was that directed at me, Chef? If it is, your point alludes me.

53. Zac Schmitt Posted: January 03, 2009 at 01:10 AM (#3042411)

"Are you really sure you want to vote Green, most voters choose Democrats or Republicans?"

i sorta wish voting machines would give a little prompt like this. having turned 18 right around the 2000 election (which is when i first started giving serious thought to who i would vote for) i'm still a little afraid sometimes that i'll pull the wrong lever and end up voting for someone weird. the metal clank sounds so ominous and final to me i can't help but worry i might have made an irreversable error. now, do i want such prompts in, say, video games every time i want to exit a menu? no, but i only vote once every few years and wouldn't mind being sure i got it right.

54. Brian

Posted: January 03, 2009 at 01:18 AM (#3042413)

Zac,
try voting in the off year elections; the practice may do you good and at least you'll be more confident you know the mechanics.

55. Morally Excellent Posted: January 03, 2009 at 01:29 AM (#3042416)

do i want such prompts in, say, video games every time i want to exit a menu?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwOvuY0UbFM

56. Swedish Chef Posted: January 03, 2009 at 02:08 AM (#3042431)

Deliberately introducing a bias in the vote is a bad idea. You have to trust the voters to get their ballots right.

If nothing else, that system would have led to all smart voters being reminded of their failure to vote for Jim Rice the last few years.

57. The Wilpons Must Go (Tom D) Posted: January 03, 2009 at 02:18 AM (#3042437)

"Are you really sure you want to vote Green, most voters choose Democrats or Republicans?"

Oh how I wish the Dems or Repubs could nominate some candidates as qualified as Rickey.

58. Walt Davis Posted: January 03, 2009 at 06:55 AM (#3042516)

Oh how I wish the Dems or Repubs could nominate some candidates as qualified as Rickey.

Was Rickey on the green party ticket this year? Damn, I missed that.

59. Morally Excellent Posted: January 03, 2009 at 08:32 AM (#3042529)

Rickey doesn't need a ticket. Rickey runs with Rickey.

Page 1 of 1 pages

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

<< Back to main

Friday, January 02, 2009

Simpson: One man’s ballot for baseball’s Hall of Fame

Reader Comments and Retorts

Support BBTF

Bookmarks

Hot Topics