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Sunday, January 25, 2009

SI’s Verducci: New book about Yankees, not just Joe Torre

Verducci’s side (I once had that at Mama Leone’s) of the Torre story.

SI.com: Two New York newspapers are reporting that Joe Torre rips Alex Rodriguez and George Steinbrenner in the book, and that Brian Cashman was not as supportive of Torre returning as Yankees manager after the 2007 season as was previously believed. What can you tell us about these reports?

Verducci: I think it’s important to understand context here. The book is not a first-person book by Joe Torre, it’s a third-person narrative based on 12 years of knowing the Yankees and it’s about the changes in the game in that period. Seems to me the New York Post assigned this third-person book entirely to Joe Torre and that’s not the case. In fact, if people saw that Post story they probably noticed there are no quotes from Joe Torre in it. Joe Torre doe not rip anybody in the book. The book really needs to be read in context.

Anybody who knows Joe, especially during his time in New York, knows he’s a very honest man and he is very honest in the pages of this book. People also know Joe Torre doesn’t go around ripping people and he doesn’t do that in the pages of this book. There is a lot of information in this book over a tremendous period of baseball history. It’s been reported out by me as well as informed by Torre’s own insights into that period.

Repoz Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:22 PM | 40 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:51 PM (#3060183)

Here's the product description on Amazon (probably sent by the publisher):

Here, for the first time, Joe Torre and Tom Verducci take us inside the dugout, the
clubhouse, and the front office in a revelatory narrative that shows what it really took to keep the Yankees on top of the baseball world. The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game. Constant meddling from Yankee executives, many of whom were jealous of Torre’s popularity. The tension that developed between the old guard and the free agents brought in by management. The impact of revenue-sharing and new scouting techniques, which allowed other teams to challenge the Yankees’ dominance. The players who couldn’t resist the after-hours temptations of the Big Apple. The joys of managing Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera, and the challenges of managing Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi. Torre’s last year, when constant ultimatums from the front office, devastating injuries, and a freak cloud of bugs on a warm September night in Cleveland forced him from a job he loved.

Because I want information and I'm a Yanks fan and I don't really care about some code of secrecy that should or should not exist inside the dugout, I'm happy that this book is coming out. Sounds like it will be a good read and I'll be interested. But I do think it's pretty remarkable that Torre (whose name is listed as one of the co-authors) decided to be so candid about life behind the scenes, especially since many of these players are still playing and he's still a manager. Maybe the truth is the truth but Torre has to know that talking about "The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game" is essentially throwing that guy under the bus and is the equivalent of ripping him. What context is going to make it more nuanced for the average sports fan? I think the reaction from his former and current players will be interesting.

2. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM (#3060207)

The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game.

jesus--not another Ed Whitson story

3. CW hits the pinata for the candy Posted: January 25, 2009 at 11:40 PM (#3060225)

50-50 that Verducci interviewed himself on this one?

4. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: January 25, 2009 at 11:52 PM (#3060232)

a freak cloud of bugs on a warm September night in Cleveland forced him from a job he loved.

It's a little thing but this is the kind of thing that always makes me question other details. The game was played October 5th, not in September. Moreover it is customary to think "October" when one thinks of post-season baseball. If they can't get the easy stuff right, what faith can I put in the hard stuff?

5. Walt Davis Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:21 AM (#3060275)

But I do think it's pretty remarkable that Torre (whose name is listed as one of the co-authors) decided to be so candid about life behind the scenes,

But that's the point -- Verducci is saying that he wasn't THAT candid. Torre didn't "rip" anybody, according to him. None of the nasty stuff cited in the Post article are quotes from Torre, according to him. It's been "reported out" by Verducci.

In short, the juicy stuff is Verducci, possibly his opinion, possibly citing "other sources" (like there's a difference) or possibly Torre off-the-record. Torre's quotes will probably amount to "AROD is a great player who sets impossible standards for himself and gets down on himself when he can't reach them."

Now, it will be interesting to see if Torre has to throw Verducci under the bus.

6. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:25 AM (#3060278)

The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game.

I'm going with Vazquez. Or Kenny Rogers. One or the other.

7. tl; dr (Voxter)

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:29 AM (#3060281)

The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game.

Gotta be Kevin Brown.

8. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:34 AM (#3060283)

It's a little thing but this is the kind of thing that always makes me question other details. The game was played October 5th, not in September. Moreover it is customary to think "October" when one thinks of post-season baseball. If they can't get the easy stuff right, what faith can I put in the hard stuff?

It should make you question the knowledge of the guy who wrote the blurb. I'm not sure it says anything about the book itself.

9. Kiko Sakata

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:41 AM (#3060285)

possibly Torre off-the-record

If Torre's listed as the co-author of the book, then, direct quotes for attribution or not, he has to realize that he's being linked to this stuff, though. Or, as Joe Morgan would have said (and perhaps will say), "Joe Torre shouldn't have written this book."

10. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 26, 2009 at 01:57 AM (#3060295)

In short, the juicy stuff is Verducci, possibly his opinion, possibly citing "other sources" (like there's a difference) or possibly Torre off-the-record. Torre's quotes will probably amount to "AROD is a great player who sets impossible standards for himself and gets down on himself when he can't reach them."

Good points, although on a collaboration such as this, wouldn't Torre have some kind of final say in what is being written in the final pass? The fact that a named player wept and refused to go back into a game is not simply the expression of Verducci's opinion. You'd have to assume, even if it was leaked to him from some other source, that he did present this information to Torre for inclusion in the book. But I guess I'm assuming there was an agreement about this sort of thing. Maybe Verducci (who is a good writer and lends a lot of credibility to this project) only agreed to do this project with another understanding in mind.

11. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 02:46 AM (#3060317)

The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game.

I'm going with Jeff Weaver.

12. Dag Nabbit and his imaginary friends Posted: January 26, 2009 at 02:58 AM (#3060319)

The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game.

That nearly describes Chuck Knoublauch.

13. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 03:10 AM (#3060320)

Oh, Jeff Weaver is even better. If somewhat pushing the definition of "ace."

14. Walt Davis Posted: January 26, 2009 at 03:23 AM (#3060328)

If Torre's listed as the co-author of the book, then, direct quotes for attribution or not, he has to realize that he's being linked to this stuff, though.

Agreed -- which is why I think Torre might have to throw Verducci under a bus.

It's just all those odd statements by Verducci. How could the book possibly describe AROD, the pitcher, etc. in such ways without Torre taking the blame if Torre is a co-author? Why would Verducci write a book "with Torre" if a big chunk of it isn't attributed (even in a ghost-writerly way) to Torre? And, as noted, why would Torre agree to have this stuff published under his name if it wasn't from him?

Or is this like Marge Simpson's romance novel that Homer only pretended to read before she published? :-)

15. JPWF13

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 03:48 AM (#3060337)

"The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game"

I'm going with Tom Gordon...
IT WAS reported that he tossed his cookies in the middle of a game when told to warmup

16. Darren

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 04:06 AM (#3060347)

But that's the point -- Verducci is saying that he wasn't THAT candid. Torre didn't "rip" anybody, according to him. None of the nasty stuff cited in the Post article are quotes from Torre, according to him. It's been "reported out" by Verducci.

I think Verducci is playing a game here. He is saying that Torre is a good guy who's just honest. He's not ripping anyone, he's just telling you what "really" happened. IOW, Torre could very well be saying a bunch of awful stuff about his former players, and Verducci could be comfortable saying that he's not ripping anybody.

As far as Torre's motives, I'm leaning toward money. Sure, he makes plenty of it as a manager, but that hasn't stopped him from doing a ton of endorsements. This book might have netted him an easy mil or 2. Just let Verducci write it, feed him some info, slap your name on it, and take your money.

#15--Gordon wasn't high priced and relievers aren't usually called aces, are they?

17. Darren

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 04:08 AM (#3060348)

18. Crispix Attacks Posted: January 26, 2009 at 04:09 AM (#3060349)

I'm pretty sure the high-priced ace is not Clemens, because it would seem to me that the blurb would want to cash in on the name there: "the shocking truth about Roger Clemens' meltdown..." or some such.

Yeah, it's probably a player whom nobody is much interested in these days. That is, Jimmy Key.

19. Darren

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 04:18 AM (#3060353)

Key's a decent enough guess. I'd eliminate Wells, Mussina, and Joba for the same reason as Clemens.

20. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 04:44 AM (#3060364)

Key seems like an odd guess. He was so...bland. I can't imagine that being the case. Of course, if it does turn out to be Key, it will quickly occupy spots #1-6 on the "Interesting Things About Jimmy Key" list. Maybe Denny Neagle.

21. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 04:48 AM (#3060366)

(If anyone is curious, the #1 spot is currently occupied by Jimmy's post-baseball life as a somewhat serious amateur golfer.)

22. Darren

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 04:48 AM (#3060367)

Oh, and Joba wasn't high priced, either.

23. Tripon Posted: January 26, 2009 at 05:14 AM (#3060371)

Its Carl Pavano!

24. DCW3 Posted: January 26, 2009 at 06:40 AM (#3060385)

Oh, Jeff Weaver is even better. If somewhat pushing the definition of "ace."

Weaver wasn't exactly "high-priced" during his tenure with New York.

25. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 26, 2009 at 06:43 AM (#3060386)

I forgot about Dorn/Pavano, cause he's only high-priced.

26. outl13r Posted: January 26, 2009 at 08:02 AM (#3060394)

Without checking, does Hideki Irabu fit the 12-year time frame? If so, I put my money on the Fat Toad.

27. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: January 26, 2009 at 12:53 PM (#3060412)

It should make you question the knowledge of the guy who wrote the blurb. I'm not sure it says anything about the book itself.

Disagree. It stuck out to Jose, and it sticks out to me. Neither of us are professional writers who spent years covering the Yankees. Something like this in a blog may make you question the knowledge of the relator of this event, but in a published book, the many layers of editors should have caught a basic factual error long before it to this point. Essentially, a book like this tries to create instant credibility (well-known people in the "Author" column is a great start), and small errors like that poke a hole in the credibility instantly.

28. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 26, 2009 at 02:32 PM (#3060442)

The high-priced ace who broke down in tears and refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a game.

I'm going with Jeff Weaver.

If only Jeff Weaver had refused to go back to the mound in the middle of a certain 2003 World Series game, Torre might still be managing the Yankees.

29. Don't want the truth; just wanna see some dingers Posted: January 26, 2009 at 05:08 PM (#3060570)

David Wells?

30. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: January 26, 2009 at 05:30 PM (#3060585)

Oh, you know what, now that I think about it, I bet it was Wells. But I also bet the review is using weasel words to make a bigger deal of things than it was. Wells "refused" to go back out because he was hurt, and perhaps he cried from a sense of letting down the team, but it I imagnie it was not something like the opening scene of The Scout when the kid is crying in the toilet.

31. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 26, 2009 at 05:32 PM (#3060588)

I'm picturing Randy Johnson in a reprise of "An Officer and a Gentleman": "I got nowhere else tuh go! I got nowhere else tuh go!"

32. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 26, 2009 at 05:43 PM (#3060592)

Many a book has been hyped as more controversial than it turned out to be, the idea being to generate buzz to push sales. I suspect the book is going to be pretty positive about the 1996 - 2001 period, with a few potshots toward the front office/ownership in the later period. Given how intensively the Yankees were covered, I'm not sure there are that many secrets to be revealed, and I doubt Joe says anything that gets him banned from Old Timers Day.

33. Lassus: Posted: January 26, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3060601)

Where's the book about his years with the Mets?

"Elliott Maddox couldn't sue his way out of a paper bag."

34. RJ in TO Posted: January 26, 2009 at 05:59 PM (#3060605)

I imagnie it was not something like the opening scene of The Scout when the kid is crying in the toilet.

Are you sure about that? I could see Wells crying in the toilet after eating the post-game buffet during his pre-game warm up.

35. phredbird

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 08:52 PM (#3060798)

joe torre should not have written that book.

first!

36. Nasty Nate Posted: January 26, 2009 at 09:11 PM (#3060833)

joe torre should not have written that book.

first!

uh, no. second! by 26 posts

37. The District Attorney Posted: January 26, 2009 at 10:18 PM (#3060917)

The book is not a first-person book by Joe Torre, it’s a third-person narrative based on 12 years of knowing the Yankees

Isn't this a strange idea? A guy recounts his own autobiographical story -- things that actually happened to him -- in the omniscient third person, as if he were a beat writer or an "outside" author? Are there other examples of this in baseball lit? And, why would you do things this way?

38. Robinson Cano Plate Like Home Posted: January 26, 2009 at 11:48 PM (#3061026)

I'd like to see an autobiography in the second person.

Plural.

39. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 11:59 PM (#3061034)

The classic example of an autobiography written in the third person is The Education of Henry Adams. Chances of Verducci and Torre consciously emulating Henry Adams are near zero.

40. phredbird

Posted: January 27, 2009 at 12:10 AM (#3061045)

joe torre should not have written that book.

first!

uh, no. second! by 26 posts

oops, i didn't read through on that one. dang.

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SI’s Verducci: New book about Yankees, not just Joe Torre

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