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Tuesday, June 02, 2009

SNY: Salfino: What about Wang in the bullpen?

It seems ProSolution Gel works for every sabermetrician!

The other half of the equation here is putting Wang in as a starter. I first looked at this question back in 2007. Unbeknownst to me at the time, Dan Szymborski at BaseballThinkFactory.com had a formula of his own. And since then, Tom Tango on his Web site and Harry Pavlidis at the TheHardballTimes.com have looked at the question, too. They have done it from the perspective of converting a reliever (Joakim Soria) into a starter. We all agree that the same pitcher is most likely to pitch significantly better as a reliever than as a starter. The question is how much better?

Tango and Pavlidis deal mostly with Wins Above Replacement, not simple enough for our purposes. I want to convert the stats that we all understand.

My Wang conversion (based on how he’s pitched as a starter for his career) is a 2.89 ERA, 5.71 K/9, and 1.08 WHIP (baserunners per inning). Of course, he’d still be an extreme groundball pitcher. (Note: my conversion formula is based on how a sampling of modern starters turned relievers actually performed through 2006.)

Szymborski says Wang as a reliever would have a 3.09 ERA with 5.4 strikeouts per nine innings and a 1.21 WHIP.

Repoz Posted: June 02, 2009 at 04:35 PM | 37 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
  Related News: GeneralSabermetricsProjectionsZIPSNY Yankees

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Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Jack Keefe Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:01 PM (#3203432)
What about Wang in the bullpen?

Ozzie Guillen says we must keep our cups and sliding shorts on at all times and button our uniform Trowsers so even though it might seem like the best way to attract a young lady theres no wang in our bull pen Al.

Hey I bet I am the 1st to ever make a joke about that pitchers name. But though you may think I am a Dope I know that Wang is really a Asian-American pitcher who throws for N.Y. Only I made a joke of his name which is a humerus term for what others may call by other terms such as Randy Johnson calls it his Johnson and Jim Tumid calls it his Peter. German Die calls it his Richard and Scott Poinsettia calls it his His Boy Elroy and Bobby Jinx calls it his Tim Spooneybarger.
   2. Moneyball can't buy you love (Joey B.) Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:20 PM (#3203468)
I have to say, that was a pretty damn impressive and convincing start by Chamberlain last night against a pretty decent lineup, and one that I'm guessing has tilted the debate almost decisively in New York in the last 24 hours. Joba isn't going anywhere.
   3. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:24 PM (#3203473)
I have to say, that was a pretty damn impressive and convincing start by Chamberlain last night against a pretty decent lineup, and one that I'm guessing has tilted the debate almost decisively in New York in the last 24 hours.
HA! As soon as they blow a lead in the seventh or eighth, you'll hear "JOBA TO THE BULLPEN!" again.
Joba isn't going anywhere.
Well, duh. The only people who wanted him to move are not at all involved in that decision.
   4. Big Train Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:24 PM (#3203475)
I have to say, that was a pretty damn impressive and convincing start by Chamberlain last night against a pretty decent lineup,

Didn't impress Steve Phillips, who called him average.
   5. RJ in TO Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:27 PM (#3203478)
Not having read the excerpt, I can only assume that this is an article about David Cone.
   6. MSalfino Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:29 PM (#3203482)
Not having read the excerpt, I can only assume that this is an article about David Cone

Ha!
   7. fra paolo Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:32 PM (#3203486)
Didn't impress Steve Phillips

Mr Phillips seems to have become a bitter man this season. How long before we get a 'Fire Steve Phillips' site?
   8. Jimmy P Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:34 PM (#3203489)
I have to say, that was a pretty damn impressive and convincing start by Chamberlain last night against a pretty decent lineup

It was impressive. I'm not sure I'd call Cleveland's lineup impressive.

What I always find amusing is why is Joba the guy that has to go to the bullpen? Why can't Hughes or Wang? Because two seasons ago Joba was used in the bullpen and last year the Yankees were stupid? I love how they are "converting" him to starter, even though in college and the minors he was a starter.
   9. Jimmy P Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:35 PM (#3203492)
Mr Phillips seems to have become a bitter man this season. How long before we get a 'Fire Steve Phillips' site?

That would mean people still watch Baseball Tonight and ESPN for baseball coverage. I know I gave that up when MLB Network came on air.
   10. Tripon Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:37 PM (#3203496)
What about Burnett in the bullpen?

He's hurt, he's old, and making $80 million. Let him eat cake.
   11. TedBerg Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:37 PM (#3203497)
How long before we get a 'Fire Steve Phillips' site?

www.firestevephillips.com
   12. Morally Excellent Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:38 PM (#3203500)
Wang in the bullpen? Isn't that a Korn song?
   13. Cooper Nielson Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:44 PM (#3203511)
That would mean people still watch Baseball Tonight and ESPN for baseball coverage. I know I gave that up when MLB Network came on air.

Amen. No regrets.
   14. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:46 PM (#3203513)
At his best, Wang was a threat to win 20 games a season, so I think he has to return to the rotation to see if he's still got it. I don't see the problem with keeping Hughes around to upgrade the bullpen. That's how lots of starters have broken into MLB.
   15. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:47 PM (#3203515)
That's how lots of starters have broken into MLB.
For instance, Joba Chamberlain.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 02, 2009 at 05:56 PM (#3203520)
At his best, Wang was a threat to win 20 games a season, so I think he has to return to the rotation to see if he's still got it. I don't see the problem with keeping Hughes around to upgrade the bullpen. That's how lots of starters have broken into MLB.

Yeah, this is really a no brainer. But, I think it's fine to let Wang build some more strength/confidence while pitching in the pen. He was never a dominant starter, very good, but not dominant.

Joba has CC Sabathia upside. To move him to the pen until he unequivocaally proves he can't be a very good starter is assinine.
   17. JPWF13 Posted: June 02, 2009 at 06:06 PM (#3203532)
What I always find amusing is why is Joba the guy that has to go to the bullpen?


silly, because he can't get out of the 5th


I love how they are "converting" him to starter, even though in college and the minors he was a starter.


he "broke in" as a reliever, therefore his natural role is in the Pen, whatever he did prior to joining the majors is immaterial, it never happened.
   18. The District Attorney Posted: June 02, 2009 at 06:07 PM (#3203533)
Joba has CC Sabathia upside.
And backside!
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 02, 2009 at 06:10 PM (#3203537)
Joba has CC Sabathia upside.
And backside!


Gotta love those fat pitchers!
   20. Styles P. Deadball Posted: June 02, 2009 at 06:27 PM (#3203557)
That would mean people still watch Baseball Tonight and ESPN for baseball coverage. I know I gave that up when MLB Network came on air.


Except that the silver-haired rectum is f*^&ing; up Sunday night, when they're the only game in town. I used to be able to tune out Morgan, but the cacophony of suck emanating from the booth now is overwhelming.
   21. Obama Bomaye Posted: June 02, 2009 at 06:41 PM (#3203563)
silver-haired rectum

Crude, but I like it. Sorry Stevie, don't expect to see thy Christian name used round these parts again.
   22. Obama Bomaye Posted: June 02, 2009 at 06:42 PM (#3203566)
for future googlers:

Steve Phillips is the Silver-Haired Rectum.
   23. The District Attorney Posted: June 02, 2009 at 06:50 PM (#3203572)
silver-haired rectum
That's a skill set for ya!
   24. Jimmy P Posted: June 02, 2009 at 06:58 PM (#3203585)
he "broke in" as a reliever, therefore his natural role is in the Pen, whatever he did prior to joining the majors is immaterial, it never happened.

Someone call the Mets! Johan Santana's in the wrong spot!
   25. Zac Schmitt Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:03 PM (#3203593)
Joba has CC Sabathia upside.

And backside!


oh, snap!
   26. baudib Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:10 PM (#3203605)
Joba sucks.
   27. Cooper Nielson Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:23 PM (#3203631)
"Silver-haired rectum" definitely has legs.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:24 PM (#3203635)
Someone call the Mets! Johan Santana's in the wrong spot!

Yeah, where's the "Pelfrey needs to pitch teh 8th!" peanut gallery?
   29. Tuque Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:29 PM (#3203653)
Has anybody else notice that Chien-Ming Wang's last name is a slang term for "penis"?
   30. Crispix Attacks Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:35 PM (#3203664)
That would mean people still watch Baseball Tonight and ESPN for baseball coverage. I know I gave that up when MLB Network came on air.


I've never seen this so-called "MLB Network". Maybe it'll become one of the 100 channels I get in a few years.
   31. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:44 PM (#3203682)
I've never seen this so-called "MLB Network". Maybe it'll become one of the 100 channels I get in a few years.
MLB Network is what Baseball Tonight dreams of being, but can never be.

BBTN can tell you about an exciting game going on, and show you their graphical scoreboard from the Gameday feed, but they can't show you the highlight until after it happens.

MLB Network can cut into live action in a big game at a big moment, and stay with it. It is awesome.
   32. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:52 PM (#3203706)
Also, to date, MLB Network's speculative desk gibberish has been less mindsnappingly galling than ESPN's speculative desk gibberish.
   33. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 02, 2009 at 07:55 PM (#3203721)
Also, to date, MLB Network's speculative desk gibberish has been less mindsnappingly galling than ESPN's speculative desk gibberish.

Concur. Harold Reynolds and Magraine are pretty good as sports talking heads go.
   34. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: June 02, 2009 at 08:00 PM (#3203736)
You're making me sad.
   35. KronicFatigue Posted: June 02, 2009 at 08:16 PM (#3203772)
What about Burnett in the bullpen?


AJ is my dark horse pick for who will eventually replace Mo when he retires (or converts into pure energy)
   36. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: June 02, 2009 at 08:55 PM (#3203832)
AJ is my dark horse pick for who will eventually replace Mo when he retires (or converts into pure energy)


The best bet for having Mo converted into pure energy is to have him shake hands with Kyle Farnsworth.
   37. ColonelTom Posted: June 02, 2009 at 11:57 PM (#3204232)
Came here looking for the obligatory David Cone joke - leaving fulfilled.
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