There's that east coast media bias again.

I realized this weekend that I now hate the Red Sox more than the Cowboys. That's an obviously odd comparison, but Dallas is my most hated NFL team, and I care about baseball much more, factoring in several other coefficients, their hate quotient is getting closer and closer to NY levels.

I think the thing that bothers me the most is how good-not-great players get deified because they were brought into the system by none of their own virtue. Watching last night's Twins-Sox game with two Boston-ites, I nearly had to leave when Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Youkilis were successively discussed as future franchise players for their world championships to come. It's a vicious cycle of success: the team wins so players are labeled "clutch" while players who never get the opportunity are ignored. I'm really glad Joe Nathan fielded better than he pitched in the 9th.

Really Ron? Kent Hrbek? The guy with the flour sack tied around his waist by 1988? He was engaged in exchanging defensive signals?

More likely asking what toppings Chuck wanted at the sundae bar in the clubhouse.

At least make it plausible.

Kent Hrbek, defensive orchestrator. Please.......

Harv, don't you think that Twins' infield was a pretty sharp bunch back in the day? Hrbek, Knoblauch, Gagne, Gaetti, Pags, Al Newman ... they had some athletic limitations, but they played pretty alert team defense. I seem to remember them turning an unusual number of triple plays ... I look it up now, and it was "only" four (two in 1988 and two in one game in 1990); but I remember at the time them talking about trying to anticipate the triple play. I was always struck by how much better team defense they played than, say, the Rangers, who seemed to be in their own private fogs much of the time.

I realized this weekend that I now hate the Red Sox more than the Cowboys. That's an obviously odd comparison, but Dallas is my most hated NFL team, and I care about baseball much more, factoring in several other coefficients, their hate quotient is getting closer and closer to NY levels.

Yeah, I'm hearing this more and more. It's sort of part of the range of sports fandom and there's certainly a range of how other people see you and your team (excluding the permanent haters - Yankee fans for the Red Sox; Michigan fans for Ohio State etc.) that depends on how they do. And with success comes bandwagon fans, and also more people who want to see your boys taken down a notch or two. And the more fans your team has, the more times you're going to just cringe when you hear (or hear about) what other people in your fan base say or do.

I know that I'm lucky to a be a lifelong Red Sox fan, since I've experienced every part of that cycle, and fans of many teams have not. It might come at the price of seeing more of your brethren make asses of themselves in public, and at other people sneering at your T-shirt, but you gotta take the bitter with the sweet sometimes.

I think the thing that bothers me the most is how good-not-great players get deified because they were brought into the system by none of their own virtue. Watching last night's Twins-Sox game with two Boston-ites, I nearly had to leave when Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Youkilis were successively discussed as future franchise players for their world championships to come. It's a vicious cycle of success: the team wins so players are labeled "clutch" while players who never get the opportunity are ignored. I'm really glad Joe Nathan fielded better than he pitched in the 9th.

Now this I don't fellow, except for the "world championships to come" bit, if they really said that, since that's obviously off-putting. There is a tendency, if you pull for a big team like the Sox, to be a little defensive when someone else describes your success as wholly or mostly a product of singing players who were already household names from playing elsewhere to big time contracts. So you're going to talk about a guy like Youkilis or Ellsbury or Pedroia more. There's the promise of following a player's whole career there that just doesn't exist with, say, Manny Ramirez or Josh Beckett.

So you're going to talk about a guy like Youkilis or Ellsbury or Pedroia more.

Talking about them is fine. I'll even give them credit for being good players who are fun to watch. But scoffing at the notion that Joe Mauer might be better than one or more of them because he hasn't won a championship? That's cocky, abrasive, and ire-raising.

Talking about them is fine. I'll even give them credit for being good players who are fun to watch. But scoffing at the notion that Joe Mauer might be better than one or more of them because he hasn't won a championship? That's cocky, abrasive, and ire-raising.

If your friends were dismissing the idea that Joe Mauer might be better than the aforementioned trio, it seems your specific problem is hanging around with dumb Red Sox fans, not the Red Sox per se.

Edit: my own stupidity.

If you're friends were dismissing the idea that Joe Mauer might be better than the aforementioned trio

no. i'm pretty sure that pedroia is the best player in the league. possibly of all time.

as a Sox fan I think I'm having the same problem as people who hate the Sox. I see so much coverage crowning Jacoby Ellsbury as the next Fred Lynn or Kevin Youkilis needs a HUGE contract extension NOW or telling me that Mike Lowell is better than David Ortiz that I almost dislike those players. I think its less of a 'saturation' issue and more the disconnect between fan/media percieved value and actual value that annoys me.

I don't find the Red Sox annoying, but if you are around the wrong fans, I can easily see how one could loathe the team.

I guess I should amend my statement by saying that I see all sorts of stupid opinions about the Rangers (my favorite team), but only in the Dallas Metroplex media. The "wrong" fans exist for every team in every sport. However, Red Nation creates a pervassive group of fans, of which there is a very large subset of "wrong" fans. At its worse, it seems that you can't escape the really irritating homerism of the Red Sox.

Red Sox don’t have to be loved, but Gardenhire should be admired

Fixed.

Seriously, though, sometimes I wonder if the price of success is too high. It removes the fan from being just a regular fan. If a Red Sox fan says something good about any player on the team, they are immediately labeled a fanboy or fangirl and their opinion either dismissed or counterbalanced with a grocery list of all that player's failings. My experience with Sox fans is they can't have a discussion around non-Sox fans without it blowing up on them. Most Red Sox fans are pretty thick skinned anyway, but I have to think that there are people out there who just want to root for their team without having to fight about it every day.*


*Spending a lot of time in Connecticut, maybe it's just the Red Sox/Yankees thing that I'm responding to. But I see it on the internet as much.

My experience with Sox fans is they can't have a discussion around non-Sox fans without it blowing up on them.

I went to a game at Fenway when the Rangers were in town earlier this year. The people around me would offer a comment here or there (because it was obvious I am a Rangers fan). Nothing was offensive of stupid. It was casual and polite conversation. The guy behind me talked baseball to his girlfriend/wife for pretty much the entire game. He is very knowledgeable, so it was not painful to listen to. The only fanboy thing he said all game is that there is only one number 7 for the Red Sox, Trot Nixon (seriously?). Even then, that is pretty mild for what the stereotypical Red Sox fan can say. Of course, there was the guy who yelled obsceneties at me because of my Rangers hat.

But scoffing at the notion that Joe Mauer might be better than one or more of them because he hasn't won a championship? That's cocky, abrasive, and ire-raising.

If that's what they're doing then they're morons. I'd kill to have Mauer on the Sox.

Youk: Hey, Petunia, whaddya say we play this bunt exactly the same way everyone's played them for the last 100 years?

Petunia: That's good thinking. I'd be lost without your keen baseball intellect.

But scoffing at the notion that Joe Mauer might be better than one or more of them because he hasn't won a championship?

I'll give you Youks and Ellsbury, Andrew.

But Pedroia? Nobody's better than Pedroia.

Seriously, lighten up. It's only a game.

The only fanboy thing he said all game is that there is only one number 7 for the Red Sox, Trot Nixon (seriously?).

How old was he? He probably isn't old enough to remember Reggie Smith.

Baseball sucks.

Youk: Hey, Petunia, whaddya say we play this bunt exactly the same way everyone's played them for the last 100 years?

Petunia: That's good thinking. I'd be lost without your keen baseball intellect.

Yeah, what the ####? What's next, praising Varitek for signaling to the pitcher that he should pitch in the direction of home plate?