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Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Sox threaten to boycott Japan trip
“During a players-only team meeting at City of Palms Park this morning at 8:30, the players decided unanimously, according to one player, that the Sox would not take the field for their scheduled 12:07 p.m. exhibition game against the Blue Jays today unless there was a resolution to MLB’s decision not to extend an appearnce fee of $40,000 to all team coaches making the trip to Japan. All players are receiving the $40,000 appearance fee for the Tokyo trip”
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Of course, MLB could use the same lesson.
Apparently the players want the pie to be $40,000 x all staff, and MLB wants $40,000 x uniformed staff instead.
That's because you're also "Mister No Leverage."
The issue is that everyone thought that the coaches were getting the $40k, and supposedly that's part of the reason the players agreed to the trip, but because of either miscommunication or something else down at the league office, that bonus was not actually part of the deal, and everyone only found out about it yesterday.
But if you negotiate a deal with your boss to pay you say $5K to go on said business trip and you agree based on that negotiation, you'd be pissed off if the boss later reneged on the deal.
MLB negotiated with the Sox and the A's to go on the Japan trip. Part of those negotiations was that the coaches would receive $40K to go on the trip. Now apparently MLB is trying to back out of that deal by not paying the coaches the $40K. The players are rightfully pissed off.
Enjoy rooting for these pre-k crybabies RSN!
Really? Doesn't your union get angry at you for accepting an assignment in violation of your CBA without getting any additional compensation?
Talk about your sense of entitlement.
The issue is not the money; the players would be getting it in any case. It's MLB reneging on their previous agreement. The players were told the coaches would get $40K and now MLB is saying they will not. The players are taking the side of the coaches in this case.
If MLB thinks they're going to make a ton of $ doing this, they shouldn't be backing out from the conditions they agreed to set the thing up. It's either worth it or it's not.
Edit: why should the players cover the money? MLB agreed to pay it and is now trying to weasle out. There is no way this isn't MLB's responsibility.
I wonder why the A's haven't said anything yet.
Edit: Nevermind, thank you Smiling Joe.
EDIT: CP, yeah, $40K is a huge chunk of change for coaches. Francona said it's as much as 2/5 their annual salary.
they are backing up their coaches, how does that translate to entitlement?
it won't be hard to root for these players, who are trying to help their less-wealthy coaches. If you feel the organization is stiffing them, we dont root for Lucchino to hit doubles into the gap anyway.
They didn't RTFA. Once you do, as I finally did between post 5 and 16, it's hard to come down on any side other than the Red Sox.
I would love to see this go unresolved and see the Red Sox forfeit the Japanese games because of their pissing and moaning. Would absolutely make my day.
They only found out about this yesterday, according to the article, and quite by accident according to Francona (who discovered it after chatting with a member of the A's staff). They're supposed to get on the plane today. Francona spent all day yesterday on the phone trying to get a hold of someone in the MLB offices who could look into this. No one from there apparently did.
I don't think I'm going to be the only one in this thread to refer to you as a first class d!ckhead, but let's get that out of the way first.
This is the only recourse the Sox and A's have. If they just go MLB will not live up to what it agreed to, because there is no reason they will have to, they will have gotten what they want.
It sounds like the A's are going to do the same thing. Can both teams forfeit the games?
It'll be interesting to see how this develops. MLB should be ashamed if Boston's side of the story is true.
Is there any evidence that you really read the article, or is that just all just hearsay?
Technically coaches and managers aren't covered under the MLBPA CBA. That said, the players are standing up for their guys, and that is pretty enviable.
I was looking for a reason to not support the Sox in the article and failed. The best point for the Red Sox side in the article is the fact that in past trips to Japan, MLB has paid the coaches. The thing that cinched it for me is that the A's are now threatening action as well. I doubt that both teams are in cohoots and arguing dishonestly.
Let alone the Blue Jays and spring training fans who are getting cheated out another games worth of tuning up for the regular season. As for there being "no other way to resolve this" ... there are dozens of ways to resolve this, with varying levels of class. The path chosen being pretty much the zero-baseline on the class meter.
Off-season phone calls and getting something in writing are completely different beasts ... if all the Sox have in their corner on this is some phone conversation ... then they really need a better legal team.
I've been waiting all week to see a Jays game and skipped out on work this morning to watch it!
For shame
It's annoying that MLB didn't just say, "oh, my, if it matters so much to you, and since we did pay them in the past, sure, we'll pay the staff for the trip." That would have been the classy thing to do, but it didn't happen. So the Red Sox and A's have to fight back, and sitting out is the simplest and most effective way to do that.
If MLB wanted everything to go smoothly, they could have just paid the Oakland and Boston staffs as everyone expected, rather than stiffing the lowest-paid of those travelling to Japan.
If MLB wanted them to play the games in Japan so badly they should have gotten something in writing.
Seriously, this is basically a strike, which is what workers do when their bosses cheat them. I'll leave open the possibility that there is just a miscommunication (it doesn't look like it). However, if the story is close to what the Red Sox say it is, by all means they shouldn't go. Nor should the A's. In fact, I wouldn't blame other teams for sitting out. At the end of the day, MLB has to keep their agreements with the players. If the players (who, yes, could afford it) were to cover the $40K to the staff MLB will (rightly) see that they can renege on deals and have the rich players cover for them.
The fans get screwed because that is how it works. The players leverage exists in the fans anger at MLB if they don't show up.
Really? The way I see it, they don't need a legal team at all. They are the ones that are playing and that the fans are paying to see.
Jayson Stark was pretty critical of MLB today. He quipped that Bud is probably spending more to charter a jet for himself and his companions than it would cost to pay all the coaches.
I'm sure the players are perfectly willing to play these games in Boston or Oakland.
I seriously doubt if MLB can force them to play in Japan.
So, if there is no agreement, I think no one forfeits, the games are just rescheduled for the U.S.
Sorry, it's baseball. For me, a faceless billion dollar corporation going back on its promises to its lowest paid employees way overrides any concern I have about a single spring training game. It's a scummy thing to do and those employees who are being screwed over have no leverage nor a voice that could be heard. The only way to resolve this justly would be to have the talent step up and say something. Good for the A's and the Sox. $40,000 dollars is a lot of money, but it's a drop in the bucket for MLB, #### them.
Yeah, even though the principle is the same, I'd probably feel differently if the guys getting screwed were the players. In fact, my guess is that the billionaires running the game never imagined that the millionaires the public knows and loves would stand up for the middle class guys. The billionaires, right now, are probably wondering who forgot to go over Millionaire Etiquette 101 with the players.
I believe Francona said the coaches got paid by MLB the last time they were over there.
From the article:
There is also an issue with the Teams families were promised to be on the entire trip Japan> LA> Oak> Tor and they were told yesterday that the families would have to find their way home form LA
Something is happening Red Sox have come out and are going to play today starting about 1pm est
Guess this has been resolved.
Link
So where would the path of cheating on your dying wife with with her sister rank on this meter?
Just, you know, hypothetically speaking.
"FORT MYERS — According to a player source, the players are taking the field because they got what they wanted. That means the coaches will be paid and the trip is on. More soon."
Workers of the world, unite!
you are as classy as the organization you represent
Hopefully the issue was settled before MLB was able to get the Pinkertons to deal with Papi.
Ah, Curt "Doolittle" Schilling.
Good for the them. If all this is true I have a new found respect for the Red Sox players.
Never go because Japan isn't Christian enough?
Apparently MLB doesn't think the players (from both teams) are full of #####, because they agreed to pay the coaches the $40K that the players said was originally promised to them.
You come across as a real deep thinker here. Just to let you know.
You know, the meds don't work unless you take them every day...
Anyone care to tell me what this is about?
The last time the Red Sox tried this they wouldn't win the World Series for another 86 years.
Please cite the coaches union. They are management.
Just me trying to make a bad joke with the premise that I had cheated on my wife, and was hoping that by some standard my act was the ethical equivalent of not playing a baseball game, which would make my despicable act only a little bad, since not playing a baseball game comparably isn't so bad. I think we can all agree that it was not particularly funny, so I'd ask that we all move along.
The coaches weren't the ones threatening the boycott. The players were, after initially being promised that every employee going would be getting paid the additional stipend.
Well that's a let down. I thought there was some deep dark story I didn't know about someone's past.
Or that it was a reference to a Woody Allen film I hadn't seen.
That's what I was hoping for.
or they were blackmailed.
1) There is dispute of that claim. As apparently the A's coaches didn't expect that.
2) And if the players were promised it, and based on a history of collusion they should have asked for it in writing. If they didn't they should have seeked litigation, or arbitration. Not a strike where the fans are the injured party.
3) It isn't the players business. Nothing in this world is more ####### annoying than the busy body's you encounter every where.
Anytime any group of people use whatever leverage they have to achieve some action from another group of people, it can be labelled "blackmail". This includes consumer boycotts, all strikes, and many other actions. Not all blackmail (if that's the term you want to use) is created equal.
The league negotiated with the Red Sox and A's to get them to agree to the trip. I'm guessing they negotiated with them separately. Based on the events of the day, I'm guessing the negotiated terms were different for the two teams. This isn't the first bit of confusion, IIRC... around a month ago didn't the A's think they were going to get less of the gate than the Red Sox?
There is one thing. Standing up for billion dollar corporations that are more than capable of protecting themselves and complaining about anyone who dares inconvenience them.
There's an anology out there, but my mind is not in the right space.
It's going to be a lot funnier when your wife reads it and leaves you, though.
Who is doing that?
I know I never imagined it, and I still can't quite believe it. If it's true that the players really threatened to boycott the Japan trip, unanimously no less, on behalf of coaches etc. getting stiffed out of $40,000 a piece, that would be one of the most surprising baseball outcomes of my lifetime, in my opinion. The 1988 World Series would not look like an upset compared to that.
well technically, the last time the Red Sox tried this, they won the world series a day later....
interesting story in that link.
Who cares? She's dying, remember?
It's not their $300K though! $300K or $40K is a shitload to me, and it's a lot to the people they were doing this for. It may not be marching in Alabama but it is a stand for less powerful people who were gonna get ###### over. Good for them, and I hate the Red Sox.
Sure, there is. He has nothing to apologize for and has no reason to think he should shape his words or thoughts, or how he expresses them publicly, to suit you.
Take note that he served his country as a Marine. You might want to show a little more respect.
Ah, but when his brother-in-law reads it, that'll be good times.
You stay classy, Zenbitz.
It's legally a contractual agreement whether it's in writing or not.
meeting of the miiiiinds!
You're making my point. The 40k is a big deal to some of the staff, players (the millionaires) imo should have offered to pool some money to cover the shortfall, and in addition complained to MLB. Sitting out doesn't make sense to me.
Regardless, the coaches got their money, so good for them.
The responsible party here is obviously MLB. They said they'd pay the coaches and staff. They then refused to pay the coaches and staff. When the players, in laudable solidarity with their clubhouse-mates, told MLB they had to follow through on the agreement, MLB did just that.
The game got played an hour or two late, nobody lost anything. IF anything had been lost, it would have been the fault of MLB, who decided to stiff the lowest-paid members of the Sox and A's travelling clubhouse.
I do give credit to the Boston players for standing up for what they believed (and for Oakland's players, who also voted to boycott the trip). But they'd taken the (public) posture that things were promised and not delivered, which wasn't necessarily the case. The whole things smacks of a big misunderstanding, but the players didn't behave like they thought it was possible they might have misunderstood the deal. (Actually, I'll give Youkilis credit for suggesting the nature of the negotiation was conducive to misunderstanding.)
Similarly, I think MLB and the players deserve credit for meeting halfway and resolving the situation pretty quickly. But on both sides, they deserve blame for not having things absolutely clear beforehand.
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