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His father is in prison for killing a man who sold bunk crack to Elijah's mother.
Does it not stand to reason that the more African-American players there are in baseball (as its the case in other sports), the more problems prevalent in parts of the African-American community will be brought into the baseball limelight?
Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying blacks are the only people who have family violence issues. Far from it.
What I am saying is that it stands to reason that such problems as bemoan parts of the African American community (or by the same token, the Dominican, or Latin-U.S. or Venezuelan - think Urbina - community) are inevitably going to be noticed and noticed more if there are more African-American players.....
Dukes would seem to be someone who comes from a very underprivileged background. It's not extremely noteworthy that someone from that background acts in ways which are consistent with it.
Conversely, you have someone like Ryan Howard, who comes from a rock solid middle-class African American family, who doesn't get into these situations.....
those last two paragraphs should tell you that race has nothing to do with it. It has more to do with economics and upbringing. Not race.
as for the rest of your proclamation, you might as well have said, if we allow more Hispanics into baseball peoples wallets are going to start showing up missing. It really was that sterotypical.
Then you take him down, soak his chest with saline, attach jumper cables to his nipples, and attach the other end to a car battery and seat him on a work bench with his balls in a serrated vice coated with Dettol and slowly turn the vice while turning over the car.
Film it for posterity and make it mandatory for anyone involved in spousal abuse/child abuse to view it several times with the warning: Do it again and you're next. I know it's hardly a 'Christian' thing to think of doing but at least it might make a great deterrant for sphincterically-inclined, Oedipus-complexing hell spawn of unmarried canine parents.
God, I hate slimeballs like that.
Best Regards
John
To some extent, I think that Upton, Dukes, and Young may reinforce each other's feelings of frustration. I believe that they were the trio who went on record last year about how poorly the D-Rays farm system is run and inept the organization's management.
Upton seems to be fine now that he's got an everyday job in the majors. I suspect that the same would be true with Young. Dukes has always been the most volatile (IMHO), but he also possibly has the most talent of the three.
Alas, the legacy of Josh Hamilton (immediately finding success in another organization after getting cut) will probably be reluctance on Tampa's part to let any young, troubled talent go. Even if doing so would probably be in the best interests of both the player and the team.
Upton seems to be fine now that he's got an everyday job in the majors. I suspect that the same would be true with Young. Dukes has always been the most volatile (IMHO), but he also possibly has the most talent of the three.
Alas, the legacy of Josh Hamilton (immediately finding success in another organization after getting cut) will probably be reluctance on Tampa's part to let any young, troubled talent go. Even if doing so would probably be in the best interests of both the player and the team.
Don't forget the Legend of Toe Nash.
I know this is just a typo, but this needs to be a word. We should move this to the A-Rod and Pedroia thread. It can mean "an act intended to portray intended toughness but instead comes across as girlish." Hilaripus. I actually like it.
If teams sign more Japanese players, their math scores will go up.
Thank you, Reggie White
You're in luck, my friend.
Dammit. Like Avon Barksdale says, "How you never gonna be a little slow? How you never gonna be a little late?"
Whatever. There are a lot of organizations that do a lousy job developing talent; that doesn't cause said talent to throw bats, threaten their spouses, etc. I don't know that there's anything the Rays are or aren't doing that's enabling this behavior from their top prospects, but it is kind of striking how many of them seem to be problem children. (And for the record, I think Dukes is a breed apart from the rest of the Tampa prospects in terms of misconduct, and that his conduct in particular is completely disconnected from the stupidity of the Rays' front office.)
I mean, I don't dispute that the Rays have been run by a bunch of numbnuts for most (if not all) of their history, but come on. They could just as easily argue (rightfully) that they'd prefer not to rush players who show serious maturity issues up to and including thuggish (or even criminal) behavior.
Dukes' wife has also been arrested for violence against him.
Two-way street -- women have to start taking responsibility for themselves and their behavior in these relationships.
Sure, but geez, a middle school? That ain't right.
I have little reason to believe the current TBD front office isn't solid, or maybe better. I think we need to wait in see, certainly the previous administrations had their heads up their asses.
The people who had season tickets behind the 1B dugout in Durham the last few years think Upton is a psychopath.
I must have missed/forgotten this, what did he do?
If they are handless, why the need for gloves?
I don't know that there's anything the Rays are or aren't doing that's enabling this behavior from their top prospects, but it is kind of striking how many of them seem to be problem children.
That's why they were willing to take the risk and trade a player as good as Victor Zambrano for "clubhouse cancer" Scott Kazmir.
Why do I rub salt into my own wounds like this?
Elijah Dukes belongs in a Harry Crews novel.
Threw about 50 baseballs per year at them instead of to the first baseman.
Remember the old saying: "Never attribute to inaccuracy what can adequately be explained by malice"
Hence my equivocation.
Well, no one really wants to go on record calling a sociopath a sociopath.
Seriously - at what point do you start blaming the organization? If only for a crappy PR department that can't keep a lid on these things.
Surely, you jest. Pro athlete/death threat/children? This story hits all of the hot buttons. I would bet there are a bunch of reporters in St. Pete right now, walking around with hard-ons, just thinking about where this story might go from here.
She got ripped off when purchasing $100 worth of crack, supposedly. Not sure the details.
I don't mean this story per se, I'm looking at the whole Tampa organization. The stories just keep falling out every other month. I also don't mean PR to cover things up but to help explain to players what their actions mean to the team and their careers THEN working with the press. (All PR isn't evil.)
(I'm not denying the fact that he might be an asshat, but questioning why women are having babies with asshats)
Most of the time that Upton, Dukes, and Young were in Durham last year, they hung together with Darnell McDonald. Granted, that's probably a "comfort" thing: there were no other African-American players on the team. But what struck me was that there was almost no communication between those four players and the rest of the team; it wasn't just that the African-Americans were in one group and the whites in another, but that no one even bothered to *try* to bridge the gap.
-- MWE
BUT AVERAGE PENIS SIZE WILL DECREASE!!!
My observation -- never validated by any studies, as I don't think any have been done -- is that the vast majority of African-American players now in the majors grew up in intact families in the suburbs or in middle-class or higher neighborhoods. In other words, their home lives were not materially different from most white American players now in the majors. By contrast, my observation -- also not proven -- is that African-American players now in the NFL and in the NBA were more likely than their MLB counterparts to have grown up in single-parent households in poorer circumstances.
Therefore, if my assumptions are true, MLB could greatly increase the numbers of African-American players and the social and criminal problems you refer to would not go up at all, as long as the additional African-American players came from backgrounds much like the black American players already on MLB rosters.
To add a needless example, you don't often see situations like that of a Pacman Jones or Elijah Dukes with people like Jermaine Dye and CC Sabathia. The difference is not their race -- all being black Americans -- the difference is that Dye and Sabathia grew up in the suburbs in middle class homes with their fathers at home, Jones and (I presume) Dukes did not.
I don't think it's accurate to say that personality issues are running or have run rampant in the Rays farm system. Yeah, Young is somewhat of a prick and always has been but the bat-throwing thing was pretty out of character for him, generally he's your standard mostly harmless jerk. Upton doesn't have personality issues really but gets unfairly lumped in with his two Durham teammates, I believe in that USA Today article last year he didn't even say anything bad but because Dukes and Young did in the same one Upton got criticized too. Nobody else is recent years has had any real problems, it's just that the huge spotlight shone on the recent issues makes it seem like it's a lot worse than it is. Dukes and Young have been the only problem children for the team.
ACTUALLY, when they drafted him, they knew exactly what they were getting. They were taking a chance on a top-10 talent with an undrafted head and a bad background. It's basically come to fruition without too much change, unfortunately. This might be the least surprising baseball news of the year, other than Kei Igawa sucking.
That almost made me crap my pants. Best line ever.
Sadly, my fellow country man (Ruben Rivera) DID steal some bats and stuff from Derek Jeter a few years back. It's not something that I'm proud of that....
This sentence would have a very different meaning if the athlete in question were Lastings Milledge. Or Paul LoDuca.
Forgive me for letting facts get in the way of a zingfest, but wasn't Lastings guilty of sleeping with a girl that was only 2 or 3 years younger than him?
Does it not stand to reason that the more African-American players there are in baseball (as its the case in other sports), the more problems prevalent in parts of the African-American community will be brought into the baseball limelight?
I would change African-American in this question to 'kids who grow up in high-crime neighborhoods with broken or weak family structures.'
- kids who grow up in high crime neighborhoods are not playing baseball
- as for broken or weak family strctures - i am guessing you mean no father around - the only Black players i can think of are gary sheffield and dontrelle willis and i think torii hunter (not positive)
My observation -- never validated by any studies, as I don't think any have been done -- is that the vast majority of African-American players now in the majors grew up in intact families in the suburbs or in middle-class or higher neighborhoods. In other words, their home lives were not materially different from most white American players now in the majors. By contrast, my observation -- also not proven -- is that African-American players now in the NFL and in the NBA were more likely than their MLB counterparts to have grown up in single-parent households in poorer circumstances.
- agree
Therefore, if my assumptions are true, MLB could greatly increase the numbers of African-American players and the social and criminal problems you refer to would not go up at all, as long as the additional African-American players came from backgrounds much like the black American players already on MLB rosters.
To add a needless example, you don't often see situations like that of a Pacman Jones or Elijah Dukes with people like Jermaine Dye and CC Sabathia. The difference is not their race -- all being black Americans -- the difference is that Dye and Sabathia grew up in the suburbs in middle class homes with their fathers at home, Jones and (I presume) Dukes did not.
- well dukes WAS around his dad which might could have been a lot of the problem. it is the growing up in a high crime area/family that is the problem
And I don't even mean that like I think he was GOING to do it. I'd bet 5 bucks that he never would have gone through with the threats even if no intervention was made - it was probably a threat just to make a threat - but its still evil.
If the voicemail is authentic, even if he is convicted of nothing, I'd want him suspended from baseball til at least April 2009.
If Josh Hamilton got 3 years or more for smack or coke or whatever a year and a half for Elijah is pretty generous
It was definately something relating to his anger about the bunkness or otherwise being ripped off. He wasnt morally outraged that someone sold his wife crack, he was upset that it was bad crack or she was overcharged.
He wasn't taking "how dare you sell my wife an addictive, deadly, illegal drug" high ground, thats for sure
well if he did those things he is an evil man... just saying them, well its certainly evidence he may be evil... but I wouldn't say proof.
I don't know, threatening to kill a woman's child is pretty evil. It's like movie villain evil. Granted, he didn't kidnap the kid and have him in his secret lair while threatening the, but still.
Malice, inaccuracy, do the fans really have time to ponder that when they are ducking for cover?
I don't know, threatening to kill a woman's child is pretty evil.
especially seeing as how they HIS OWN CHILDREN
(I'm not denying the fact that he might be an asshat, but questioning why women are having babies with asshats)
Women sleeping with asshats (especially asshats who happen to be jocks)?! Unprecedented, I tell you!!
Won't someone other then Elijah Dukes think of the children?!?
and
And the team's response:
Gee, Andy, ya think?
He said so. What do you want him to do? Punish him? Get him counseling? I suspect they are working with him, but regardless what do you think they should do.
Most of the time that Upton, Dukes, and Young were in Durham last year, they hung together with Darnell McDonald. Granted, that's probably a "comfort" thing: there were no other African-American players on the team. But what struck me was that there was almost no communication between those four players and the rest of the team; it wasn't just that the African-Americans were in one group and the whites in another, but that no one even bothered to *try* to bridge the gap.
-- MWE
Why would this be surprising? The same thing happens everywhere I've been in my life.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/23/Tampabay/Ballplayer_s_wife__He.shtml
or a direct link to the jpg
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/23/images/large/dukes_cellphone_300.jpg
Those poor black people, just completely out of control. Why, I suppose black women should just consider themselves lucky that their husbands don't kill them and their children.
"Hey, dawg. It's on, dawg. You dead, dawg. I ain't even bullshtting. Your kids too, dawg. It don't even matter to me who is in the car with you. N--ga, all I know is, n--ga, when I see your motherfkking a$s riding, dawg, it's on. As a matter of fact, I'm coming to your motherfkking house."
More details on Dukes female relations:
Obviously he's too good a baseball player to make the Rays go all moral and release him. So the best way forward is probably to give him a raise so he can hire some muscle to do the dirty work for him, thus keeping him away from trouble.
He is a total embarrassment to the organization, and if you think he is going to just suddenly start acting better, you need to re-think. He has exhibited zero impulse control. Four or five kids out wedlock. Arrests. Suspensions. Restraining orders. Striding into a middle school and making threats. Leaving threat messages on voice mail.
I don't care how talented he is, this MLB, not the Cincinnati Bengals. If they don't release him, they should suspend him and put him counseling today, if they really think it might do some good.
Whatever they do, it requires a lot more than just their "attention."
Are you new to the planet?
Not disagreeing with you, but if they released him, what would he fetch on the open market? Surely someone's willing to give him a million per, at least.
IMHO, he's beyond probation with mandatory counseling; the guy needs to see the inside of a jail cell, even if only for a few months. From the newspaper excerpts on this page, it seems like these incidents are increasing in frequency and intensity. Left unchecked, it's only a matter of time before something very tragic happens.
Which is a shame, because he is so incredibly talented and should be striking fear of god into opposing pitchers rather than former mistresses.
It's an interesting question. The sticking point may not be the annual salary, but whether or not Dukes would insist on being on the 25 man roster (so a de facto Rule 5 player, albeit highly talented).
Ironically, it was of course the D-Rays made out like bandits when they gave Julio Lugo a shot after he was cut by the Astros. My guess is that given the success Josh Hamilton is having with the Reds, the D-Rays are not going to get rid of another elite talent just to make a statement. They're really in a no-win situation.
*It's the humidity. Makes people cranky.
Or, what Blackhawk said in post 77.
Psss: It's not torture anymore, it's "enhanced interrogation techniques." Rudy Guiliani told us so, remember? It was right when he was on stage next to John McCain.
Perhaps the lawyers around here can answer this, but aren't there laws that would make the threat, in and of itself, a crime? If it is, then with the saved voice mail and the saved picture of the handgun, the evidence would be unsually solid for that sort of case.
I have some suggestions....
Best Regards
John
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