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Nady and Marte definitely were just traded somewhere, no question there.
I know Tabata has been widely hyped, so this should make Yankees fans unhappy in the short term while making them happy in the long term as he turns out to be another Ricky Ledee.
"Ohlendorf" is an unwieldy name that can't help but remind me of "Vogelsong" and "Van Benschoten". And I see that both he and Coke are in AAA right now, following Littlefield's strategy for acquiring "prospects" who had about two more weeks left before they had definitely proven that they would not reach their potential and were in fact stopgaps not unlike the veterans they were traded for.
Damn, I almost went to tonight's game, but my friend bailed at the last minute. I could have seen a trade in real time!
LHP Damaso Marte traded by the New York Yankees to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Enrique Wilson.
It didn't long for the details to filter out on this one. The first three minutes I had this up, I had three different articles in the intro (which is why the first few comments are going to seem odd to people who read this later) as I went around various pages, and kept changing it as I found more informative articles.
1st version --> I see SportTicker headline - story says "Nady/Marte traded, but we don't know where"
2nd version --> go to PIT Post-Gazette blog - story says "Nady/Marte traded to Yankees, but we don't know for who"
3rd version --> check out Robo - current version, story says "Nady/Marte traded to Yankees for these players"
Maybe he just needs a change of scenery, but I can't say I'm worried about losing him. Very nice trade for the Yankees, and some more insurance if/when some of the bullpen regresses.
I can't believe the Mets coudln't come up with anything better.
Goldstein on Tabata in his midseason top 100 update:
Eligible Next Year? Yes
Production: .241/.319/.298 at Double-A (66 G)
Stock Report: Down considerably. Beyond the poor performance is a swing that no longer looks good, and questions are being asked about his conditioning and makeup.
The other guys are not really players worth being concerned about losing IMO.
So was Nady the Plan B after the Barry Bonds deal fell apart, or was Barry Bonds the Plan B to Xavier Nady?
Yeah, I wouldn't care if the AL East was once again a battle between the two evil empires that everyone hates. But with the Rays in the picture now, this is depressing.
Nady is under Yankee control for 2009. Marte has an option.
Could get Abreu out of the field sometimes too.
I was told Grabow, so I picked him up.
Begone with your fantasy nonsense!
I wonder if Hughes was discussed, because I still think he could be great. I'd rather have him than all 6 players dealt.
Not to mention limiting the options of every other team looking for OF help.
I'm sure the Pirates asked, and I'm sure it was never an option.
Nady's a big improvement over Gardner, obviously, but he ain't a .330 hitter.
He's not being traded.
I know he's more valuable than Johan Santana, especially to a cost-conscious team like the Yankees, but it could happen that he might become less valuable than SOME player, or combination of players, at some point.
There's absolutely no way of knowing that at this point.
The Yankees have no need to sell low on Hughes. They've just shown they can patch the team fine for this year w/o given up any premier prospects.
Can people on this site please shut the #### up with this #### already?
Not while people are still saying this guy should never be traded for any reason whatsoever.
No one is saying that, so get over it.
Enough of this. The rich get richer; the Pirates can't develop prospects so Jose Tabata will be traded for Matt Morris in three years; the Pirates don't have any prospects so this Coke guy is now probably the Pirates' best pitching prospect; this is a bit disappointing given that they were supposed to be "selling high" on both Nady and Marte, but the concerns about the holes in Nady's swing are quite real; and that's about it.
There's no good trade for a one-time #1 prospect when he's on the DL after a crappy 20 IP. To trade Hughes as a PTBNL now would be assinine. There are plenty of live arms the Yankees can trade now, and let Hughes rebuild his value, either as a starter for NY or as trade bait.
This is certainly one of those trades that looks like a blowout initially but can turn 180 degress in the other direction 1 year from now. We will see. Scouts get paid money to ID sleepers and guys that can make an adjustment to get back on track. I wouldn't crap on the Bucs yet.
Well, I think he's saying that since Hughes' value was so high as recently as this offseason, it would a total waste to trade him now when his value is at it's lowest point in at least three years. In fact, the notion that no good trade could be involved in giving up Hughes is so absurd that I would think you would dismiss it as a possible interpretation given that Snapper just isn't that kind of poster.
Thanks CP, you explained it better.
Everyone still has a high opinion of him, as you show. And the PTBNL thing would just be a technicality because he's on the DL, not as a throw-in, of course.
comment #40: good point, I apologize. Didn't know he meant "why would they trade Hughes NOW?" I thought it was the "his potential is as unlimited as it ever was" argument.
A little on-topic: if the effin' Yankees chose Xavier freakin' Nady over Barry ####ING Bonds to solve their offensive woes, is that proof enough of collusion?
That's what I meant, sorry for any misunderstanding.
Yes, friends: The Pirates are still losing on purpose.
Maybe they don't think Bonds can play the outfield, and they have enough DHs already.
Not if they expect to play Nady in the OF with regularity.
Oh, Nady. He's having a fluke year. Whatever.
The only GOOD player the Pirates gave up was a relief pitcher. Get off it.
It's really amazing how the new Royals management got the benefit of the doubt, the new D-Rays management got the benefit of the doubt, the new Reds and Rangers and Brewers management got the benefit of the doubt...some showed they deserved it, and some (Rangers) have showed they probably didn't...but absolutely nobody had any notion that Huntington would change anything about the Pirates, even though we know that a whole lot of Littlefield's dumb decisions were his own and were not made by ownership.
Probably not all this pessimism is justified. I mean, not ALL this pessimism. There's a lot of pessimism here, people. And as I said, they're testing themselves with this Tabata thing. The other three guys are low-risk low-reward. Tabata is the important player and he's high-risk high-reward.
I am with Beano here. I think the trade is reasonable for both sides--unless you think Nady will hit like he is now for the next three years. The Yankees bolster their shot at a post-season position by adding a decent RHB and LHRP. The Pirates add some organizational depth at P and a guy who could still be a good player. I think it is too early to say the Pirates got screwed.
I can see why fans of the Red Sox, Rays, White Sox and Twins would be pissed off about it in terms of the next 60 games, but from the Pirates' standpoint, I think it might turn out just fine, long-term. No one is going to give up a LaPorta-type-prospect for Nady and Marte, or even give up Phil Hughes.
Bah... beats the sudden turning of Xavier Nady into a player that matters or that isn't going to come crashing down to his replaceable average self.
I personally grabbed Grabow, too -- but even money that the Pirates turn to Tyler Yates because he was a one-time "closer prospect", completely ignoring his splits and the fact he's been awful.
The smart team here would give Grabow the job, hope he snags half a dozen saves in the next month -- then who knows... maybe he even slides through waivers and turns into a 'B' prospect before September.
I agree with you. He was Baseball America's #37 prospect before this season, and has shown nice OBP skills. I think he needs a change of scenery, but he could really become something. Struggling in AA at 19 is no big deal.
What else did you expect out of Robo?
Thanks to shock and NJASDJDH. The Pirates don't lose anything involved in their future plans. They're giving up a very good reliever who's 31 and not going to be around past next season. Nady's having a flukish season; he's got a .363 BABIP in his age 29 season and has just one more season of arbitration before someone else pays him. Yeah, Coke and Kontas are organizational depth, and I was never high on Ohlendorf, but the Pirates need live arms in their system. I still like Tabata, and this is the cheapest he's been in years. This deal may not work out, but it seems like a reasonable chance for this regime.
This was the time to sell high on both Marte and Nady. Hopefully the Pirates did that successfully; we have to take it on faith, since we don't know how the minor leaguers are viewed in MLB front offices. But they were quite likely to do worse if they had made a deal at most other times.
The Yankees have acquired an additional 12 inches of width on home plate for cash considerations.
Yeah...Barthmaier, Yoslan Herrera, Taubenheim, Van Duns Scotus...this is sadder still than even the Astros, and the Pirates don't even have the "injured Oswalt" excuse.
Who is the last good position player to come out of the Pirates' system.
Glad you asked! Well, they've got two this season, McLouth and Doumit...or so we hope.
Before that...Aramis Ramirez, I guess.
And sure, the Pirates might've gotten more, but Coke seems like a good SP prospect and Tabata's always been a high reward guy. Why isn't this a solid deal for both teams?
I rather like McLouth, I must admit. Those guys need to build a bit more of a track record, though.
Before that...Aramis Ramirez, I guess.
That team has sucked for a very long time. Good Lord.
You do know this is the Pirates we are talking about, right?
This deal at least has 1 interesting player, but it seems like they certainly could have gotten more by dealing these guys separately.
Well, as stated, I think it is. Tonight's game and the deal are making me think the Yankees, pretensions and all, will be a playoff team yet again.
But I agree with those who think it is too early to quit on Tabata.
Wonder if Joe Buck caught the game tonight and what he thought...
P'shaw... Numb3rs is on Friday nights.
People forget that in 2007, he posted a 110 OPS+ -- because he only hit .250... McLouth was very under-rated coming into this year. Who woulda thunk the Bucs would actually have a relatively promising looking lineup -- SS and 3B are the only 2 real holes -- and their pitching would be such a mess?
I'm a Red Sox fan and my reaction is:
Yawn.
So the Yankees got a half-decent bat and a good reliever who won't pitch much. This is supposed to leave me shaking in my boots?
At least he'll be getting high on Coke
It's not that they got great players but they got some decent ones, and Nady really fills a need.
This is silly. Nobody's asking you to shake in your boots. OTOH, for over a month, NY's been playing Cabrera and Gardner in CF and LF and getting next to 0 power from both and virtually no OBP from Gardner. Nady is a significant improvement over that. He's precisely what you get for trading 4 iffy prospects: not a world beater, but an upgrade. The NY lineup looks a helluva lot better with him in it than with Gardner/Christian. And, it even allows them to sit Melky and put Damon in CF every once in a while.
This has been addressed by JC and Darren (now THERE'S an odd pairing) but the Yankees needed another OF bat, another decent RHB, and they needed another decent guy for the 6th-8th innings.
They addressed both needs without tying themselves to bad contracts, without hurting the roster, and without giving up Hughes.
In a tight race, that is relevant, and there is the Rays factor: either the Red Sox or Yankees could well be staying home this October. This trade makes it a little less likely that team will be the Yankees.
Teams (especially the Yankees) are not as dumb as fans think they are. They aren't going to go "Oh my God! This guy has a 140 OPS+ Quick, give them our best prospect!!" They know who Xavier Nady is. They know he's not as good as his numbers this year, and they gave up value that is probably pretty close to the value Nady will give them.
The Pirates do a smart thing by trading a 30 year old player who is having a career year for a bunch of youngsters and if even ONE of them pans out they will have made a great deal. If the Pirates were retards they would have instead extended Nady (see: Byrnes, Eric.)
Yeah, but trading for young players without much upside is pointless, and I only see Tabata as a reasonable prospect here. The other 3 are live bodies. The Pirates were supposed to be in a position of strength because they didn't have to move Nady. They could have held on to him if they didn't get a better offer.
The Pirates weren't dumping salary. The team could have kept Marte and Nady and took draft picks when the time came. The Pirate just didn't get back enough talent to justify making this trade. There is just too much risk and organizational filler going to the Pirates.
The Yankees get two solid MLB players. If those two guys are the worst of your every day lineup/bullpen arms, you are in good shape.
The Pirates' entire organizational philosophy, which does not appear to have changed, is best summarized by the term "low upside". Even Tabata is a guy with injury and attitude problems, and the Pirates' training and medical staff is a laughingstock in the industry.
Hell... I've written about this before. You guys know where I stand. If you don't, it's all right here.
Tabata's stats before he got hurt were horrible, .248/.320/.310. I'm guessing the sharp drop in power was related to him being hurt, but again... the Pirates are not a good place to try to get over being injury-prone. And the Pirates constantly target injured guys, as part of, in my opinion, their process of setting up the illusion of having real prospects while knowing they're much more likely to get injured and stay injured than have major league careers. Even Pedro Alvarez has a serious injury that I've read in more than one place it might take him a year to get his power back. Gee, that's all?
I guess I should mention that the Trenton park is a pitchers' paradise (park factors around 960), and the park he'll be (presumably) moving into next year in Altoona is neutral.
If you were running the Yankees, would you trade Kennedy straight up for Nady/Marte?
How about Clay for Nady/Marte?
The only high ceiling kind of guy a team is going to get for a couple players like Nady/Marte is one with questions.
Not that I think Hughes will be dealt, obviously.
This is a horrible trade for Pittsburgh, unsurprisingly...a terrible organization showing absolutely no signs of getting better.
I would, actually. I am not a Kennedy fan.
I agree, as I said upthread. I don't think Cashamn was going to give up Horne or Kennedy and Tabata to get these two guys, and I doubt that other teams would give up much more for them, either.
Are these two supposed to equal?
Kennedy has questions.
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