But they’ve stayed away from the Jose Guillen-types, and resisted trading Bay for anything but his top potential value.

Guillen would have helped the team, but I can see not signing him for 3/36.

As for Bay: Probably the biggest mistake that Littlefield made (apart from the draft) was in consistently asking for more than his players were worth to other teams. Holding off on trading Bay based on what you think his "potential" value "might" be strikes me as falling into the same trap. Bay might very well be on the Bobby Higginson path.

-- MWE

Am I the only one who sees the Pirates as having a chance to be solidly decent this season? If they play the right guys, they could be average-ish on offense and in the rotation. I'd give them slightly less than even odds to be an 82 win team this season. They need to get a bit lucky in the free talent market and have one or two players outperform their projection. It would also help if they played their best players. Much stranger things have happened. And if they win 82 games in the Central...

As for Bay: Probably the biggest mistake that Littlefield made (apart from the draft) was in consistently asking for more than his players were worth to other teams. Holding off on trading Bay based on what you think his "potential" value "might" be strikes me as falling into the same trap. Bay might very well be on the Bobby Higginson path.


I think there's a decent chance of this happening, but I think it's still good for the Pirates to hang onto him now unless someone overpays. There's no top prospect he's blocking and the Pirates have created the perception that they'll trade any homegrown player of value the second they cost too much. Keeping Bay to an extent, keeps this mindset from instantly being applied to the front office and keeps the appearance of same old, same old, which would be very easy to apply to any new management as long as ownership is the same.

Probably the biggest mistake that Littlefield made (apart from the draft) was in consistently asking for more than his players were worth to other teams.

I know you said "consistently" and not "always," but still: was Littlefield the GM at the time of the Ramirez/Lofton trade (I honestly don't remember)? (And yes, I realize the Pirates' main goal in that trade was to dump salary, which doesn't make it any less awful.)

Am I the only one who sees the Pirates as having a chance to be solidly decent this season?

I thought this last winter, and they continued to suck. I think their offense stinks, particularly if Bay's slide continues, and I don't really see much reason for it to improve. McCutcheon will be good, but will likely struggle initially, and I don't see any of their regulars improving in 2008. There is every reason to believe they will finish near the bottom of the league in runs scored - I can't see how they become "averagish" on offense.

I think their pitching has more promise. I think Duke can bounce back and form a strong rotation core with Gorzelanny and Snell. Maholm is a decent back of the rotation guy. Then they've got a bunch of fifth candidate starters.

They should probably invest more in the bullpen and try to dump Matt Morris at all costs. Still, I'm not that optimistic they'll finish any higher than 5th next year. Maybe if the Cards and Astros are really awful the Bucs can get lucky and hit 4th.

They should probably invest more in the bullpen and try to dump Matt Morris at all costs. Still, I'm not that optimistic they'll finish any higher than 5th next year. Maybe if the Cards and Astros are really awful the Bucs can get lucky and hit 4th.

I have a morbid curiousity in the 2008 Astros. The team has done a big reshuffle and spent a lot of prospects and bucks to be competitive in the short term and it has a chance to be a HUGE disaster...

At least St. Louis's (apparently looming) down year is coming the old fashioned way by sloughing off veteran chaff and bringing up the kids.

was Littlefield the GM at the time of the Ramirez/Lofton trade (I honestly don't remember)?

He was.

-- MWE

the Pirates have created the perception that they'll trade any homegrown player of value the second they cost too much.

The Pirates haven't really done that - what they've done is chosen to wait UNTIL their homegrown players are overpaid relative to their production before trying to trade them, rather than trading them while they are still on the upside. Two years ago, Jack Wilson wasn't overpaid relative to his production, and the Pirates had Castillo coming along as a possible replacement. Going into 2007, Bay wasn't overpaid relative to his production, and the Pirates could have moved him for multiple players and potentially been a lot further along.

I don't know if it was blind optimism or (as some have suggested) a more sinister keep-hopes-up-so-we-can-turn-a-profit motive, but McClatchy/Littlefield always acted as though the team needed no more than a few minor tweaks to become consistently competitive. I haven't seen any evidence yet that either Coonelly or Huntington realize what it will take for this team to turn a corner, and the key for me will be to see how they operate come June and the draft.

-- MWE

Holding off on trading Bay based on what you think his "potential" value "might" be strikes me as falling into the same trap. Bay might very well be on the Bobby Higginson path.

That may well be true Mike but I really don't see what choice Huntington has. Bay was hampered last year by tendinitis in his good knee. At the end of May it appeared to be a typical Bay season but from June on it was painfully obvious that his swing was off and he was reaching for the ball.

If the decline was injury related and he comes back strong this year Huntington can look really bad in his first major trade. If, on the other hand, it is a true decline in skills then he will be ridiculed locally for not have traded him now to get the best deal he could.

That piece was right on the money, down to the last detail.

Am I the only one who sees the Pirates as having a chance to be solidly decent this season? If they play the right guys, they could be average-ish on offense and in the rotation. I'd give them slightly less than even odds to be an 82 win team this season.

Depends on the starting pitchers. And that depends on the player development system. I'm not optimistic.