if the yankees want to jump-start their year, and try to salvage it, there's no better way than trading for CC. poor results have a way of changing the principles the yankees had in the off-season when santana was up for grabs.

Whatever. The Indians have scored more than they've allowed and are 6.5 behind a White Sox team that is highly unlikely to run away with the division. I'd be shocked if Sabathia gets traded.

if the yankees want to jump-start their year, and try to salvage it, there's no better way than trading for CC. poor results have a way of changing the principles the yankees had in the off-season when santana was up for grabs.

The Yankees' season doesn't need salvaging, they're only 6 games out of the best record in the league.

The Indians would need something back that's worth more than two first round draft picks. Are the Yankees going to give them that. I don't know; would you accept Hughes and Tabata for him? Would you offer that much if you were the Yankees? I think it's unlikely Sabathia will be traded at all, but it could happen; but I have a hard time seeing the Yankees being the team with the best shot at ponying up the young talent to land him. The Dodgers line up much better, don't they?

What has been irritating me about these CC mentions is zero indication of what the Indians could get in return. I know that to expect a Colon or Randy to the Astros haul is unrealistic, but are we talking they can expect Melky, say, or Hughes+Joba? I would assume if the Indians traded himi to the Yanks Hughes would be the starting point, but I don't know if that's realistic.

Althought they have a worse record than the Indians, I like the Dodgers as a trade partner best. I'd trade CC straight up for Billinglsey (who's from Defiance, OH near Toledo - I don't know if that would make him more likely to resign with the Tribe down the road) and I'd love to figure out some way to get LaRoche and Kemp (I don't know how to do that, I'd just love to do so).

Dayn Perry at BPro suggested a Colby Rasmus and Bryan Anderson for CC trade, which is intriguing. I would do that, as well.

This may be poor form, but since this thread will likely have some Indians fans I wanted to pose a question. Based on looking at Sabathia, is there any evidence that he is no longer the pitcher he was in 2007 and 2006? I've been having a discussion in another thread about whether the Phillies should try to acquire Sabathia (it's academic, I know; the Phils don't have the prospects) and another poster believes Sabathia is a "league average pitcher" whose last two years were "flukes." Thoughts?

Dayn Perry at BPro suggested a Colby Rasmus and Bryan Anderson for CC trade, which is intriguing. I would do that, as well.

That would be an insane price to pay for a three month rental and a shot at an extension.

Buyers and sellers seldom meet in price when it is star players in their walk years. Has there been any mid-season trade of one since Beltran?

Gagne doesn't count. :-)

Buyers and sellers seldom meet in price when it is star players in their walk years. Has there been any mid-season trade of one since Beltran?

Carlos Lee's perceived as being a star, at least.

Carlos Lee's perceived as being a star, at least.

Oh yeah, that one, hard to say if he was valued correctly and the haul was for a minor star or that the haul was small because he was a star rental, though.

Carlos Lee's perceived as being a star, at least.

And that would still be considered a huge ripoff if either team to acquire him had hung onto him.

The Yankees' season doesn't need salvaging, they're only 6 games out of the best record in the league.

And I'm still waiting on Joe Blanton to go the the Yanks. Why won't Oakland just fade?

The Yankees' season doesn't need salvaging, they're only 6 games out of the best record in the league.

The Indians' season doesn't need salvaging, they're only 6.5 games out of the best record in the division.

The Indians are just not going to trade C.C. unless they're way out of it come late July, like 12 games out. They're in no position to be able to afford announcing to their fan base, "well, we're done trying to win this year!"

This may be poor form, but since this thread will likely have some Indians fans I wanted to pose a question. Based on looking at Sabathia, is there any evidence that he is no longer the pitcher he was in 2007 and 2006? I've been having a discussion in another thread about whether the Phillies should try to acquire Sabathia (it's academic, I know; the Phils don't have the prospects) and another poster believes Sabathia is a "league average pitcher" whose last two years were "flukes." Thoughts?

I would tell that poster what "sample size" means. Take out the first four starts in March and April, which albeit where Sidney Ponson-awful, and CC has an ERA of 2.46 and a WHIP of 1.03 in the last 11 starts. CC would be no question the ACE of the Phillies staff and I have a pretty high opinion of Hamels.

Dayn Perry at BPro suggested a Colby Rasmus and Bryan Anderson for CC trade, which is intriguing. I would do that, as well.

Strike that plan. Yadier Molina literally carried off on a stretcher...

Are the Yankees going to give them that. I don't know; would you accept Hughes and Tabata for him? Would you offer that much if you were the Yankees?

Even as a Yankees fanboy, I can say there's no way the Indians accept that. Hughes won't be able to pitch in the majors before late August and Tabata has more tantrums thrown than XBH in AA.

I don't see the Yanks trading for Sabathia unless they can trade some lower level guys and exclusively arms. Maybe Detances or Melancon, and probably won't offer enough to interest the Indians unless the Indians are desperate to unload him. They're going to make the playoffs with or without him.

The Yankees, or the Indians?

The Yanks.

Probably the Indians, too. The White Sox aren't going to keep it up, driven as it is by Gavin Floyd and John Danks.

That's what we all assumed about Cliff Pollitte and whoever back in '05, too, so who knows?

The Indians' season doesn't need salvaging, they're only 6.5 games out of the best record in the division

A lot depends on how serious the Martinez injury is and whether or not Hafner can show any hint of his 2006 form when he returns. Oh, and a healthy Fausto might be nice too.

Scratch that, we do need salvaging.

Strike that plan. Yadier Molina literally carried off on a stretcher...

A suitor for Brian Schneider!

Allow me to fantasize, I'd love for the Mets to pursue Sabathia in the offseason. Otherwise, I want him to stay in the AL.

Allow me to fantasize, I'd love for the Mets to pursue Sabathia in the offseason. Otherwise, I want him to stay in the AL.

Would you consider something like Fernando and Pelfrey for Sabathia right now?

Bibigon, why do you torture me thus? What have I done to you? I leave you and your beloved Red Sox alone for the most part.

Seriously, why are the Indians supposed to be sellers at 6.5 down, but the Yankees (down 6) and Mets (down 7) are buyers?

The Star-Ledger is just an awful newspaper. Sun-Times bad.

And to answer your question, I believe that the day the Franchise arrives in New York, the Mets will emerge from the darkness and that when it is all said and done, Fernando will be in the HOF.
Pelfrey will be an ace.

So no, I would not trade Fernando/Pelfrey.

Would you consider something like Fernando and Pelfrey for Sabathia right now?

That's too much for a rental and the Mets are no lock to make the playoffs even with Sabathia as they are 6.5 games out. I'd pass.

Not to mention that the Indians might have a better shot at the playoffs than the Mets. Maybe if the Mets were closer.

Don't mind Rasky, BTFers.

Seriously, why are the Indians supposed to be sellers at 6.5 down, but the Yankees (down 6) and Mets (down 7) are buyers?

Because the Yankees are 3½ games out of the Wild Card, while the Indians and Mets are both 7½ behind the Wild Card team.

Althought they have a worse record than the Indians, I like the Dodgers as a trade partner best. I'd trade CC straight up for Billinglsey (who's from Defiance, OH near Toledo - I don't know if that would make him more likely to resign with the Tribe down the road)

Umm...thats not very realistic.

I would tell that poster what "sample size" means. Take out the first four starts in March and April, which albeit where Sidney Ponson-awful, and CC has an ERA of 2.46 and a WHIP of 1.03 in the last 11 starts.

Why does 'sample size' mean you get to take out his bad starts to make everything OK? If CC's bad starts were distributed more randomly instead of being at the start of the season would you have any reason to remove them?

Without an extension I don't see any team willing to give up it's top prospects (there's no chance the Cards give up Rasmus); the Indians would likely be getting B prospects, but if they're out of it that's probably better than the draft picks. What would the Indians be looking for? With their current core it seems like they need guys who are ready to play pretty soon rather than trying to completely rebuild.

Dayn Perry at BPro suggested a Colby Rasmus and Bryan Anderson for CC trade, which is intriguing. I would do that, as well.

I am sure you would.

his may be poor form, but since this thread will likely have some Indians fans I wanted to pose a question. Based on looking at Sabathia, is there any evidence that he is no longer the pitcher he was in 2007 and 2006? I've been having a discussion in another thread about whether the Phillies should try to acquire Sabathia (it's academic, I know; the Phils don't have the prospects) and another poster believes Sabathia is a "league average pitcher" whose last two years were "flukes." Thoughts?

ERA, GS, and IP by month for 2008
April: 7.88/6/32
May: 2.44/6/44.1
June: 2.40/2/15

I think it was just an atrocious month.

Why does 'sample size' mean you get to take out his bad starts to make everything OK? If CC's bad starts were distributed more randomly instead of being at the start of the season would you have any reason to remove them?

No, but that's the whole point (or at least I think it is; sorry if I'm misrepresenting #13). When I see a good pitcher have a bunch of poor starts clustered together like that immediately followed by a return to consistently good performance, I'm inclined to believe the good starts have more predictive value going forward than the month-long hiccup. I'd have more interest in acquiring a pitcher with that kind of "distribution" than a pitcher who's consistently average or a pitcher who gets shelled every 3 or 4 times out with regularity.

I agree with the sentiment about acquiring that kind of pitcher, Mattbert, as long as a certain amount of regression is expected as well. I'm also a bit wary of people just throwing out stats they don't like (doesn't CC have a history of being a slow starter?). After his workload last year I wasn't expecting as much out of CC this year, but he seems to have found his groove.

I don't think "Sample size" is exactly the right terminology if you're looking for a quick, dismissive, one word answer, though.

And to answer your question, I believe that the day the Franchise arrives in New York

the Knicks will be making tee time reservations for April 20.