I have to wonder if Torre didn’t say something to keep the Yankees from pushing harder for Mark Teixeira (or somebody… anybody… who could play a more-than-replacement level first base!) mid-year because of his “belief” in Doug M.

I wonder if the fact that Cashman was adamant that they wouldn't be trading any of the valuable chits needed to acquire, for example, Teixeira had more to do w/ the inaction on the 1B front that any supposed Minky-Torre love-in...

Since the Yankees scored a billion runs, I don't think Minky killed them. (After seeing what Rose did for the '83 Phillies today, I have recalibrated how bad a firstbaseman a pennant winning team can have.)

Joe Torre got fired?

What, you want blogs to get the facts right? They're still working on how to spell check!

There is no way that Damon is a better center fielder than Melky or that Matsui is better in left than either of them

Mientkiewicz had a total of six at bats in the playoffs, so I fail to see what he had to do with Torre being gone. I don't think its Torre's regular season that was the problem (isn't he a leading candidate for Manager of the Year?). I think its more the 4.49 post-season ERA and Jeter sucking in October.

So I conclude Derek Jeter got Joe Torre fired.

The title of this column does not reflect reality: Torre was certainly not rehired because of playing Minky too much. He was not rehired because the Yanks got bumped by Cleveland in the ALDS.

Other than that, I was very much pro-Torre getting fired after last post-season, but not so-much this year.

Is Torre perfect? No, but I could see value in keeping him around this year, as a lure to signing some of the valuable free agents the Yankees have (Mariano, Posada, Pettitte) with relationships to Torre.

In any case, Torre seems to be a done deal. Whomever the Yankees hire will be paid less than Torre (probably half of that), which is good, because that $$$ is going to be needed to pay off A-Rod, Mariano and Posada (and maybe even Pettitte, if he plays his cards right).

Long term, I can't see the Yankees downsizing (as suggested by a recent LM column over at RLYW). The Yankees have too much money at stake to do so, and too much money coming off the books after 2008 for such a strategy to make sense.

IMO, the Yanks sign Mattingly, as a sop to the veteran FAs. Mattingly may or may not make it past 2008, but as there are no crucial FAs to retain next year, I'd say the Yanks can take a chance on theman.

I wrote someplace else that I always thought 2008 was going to be Yanks transition year, what with Mussina, Pettitte, Giambi, Farnsworth & Pavano's money coming off the books. This season accelerated things by a year, since Hughes, Joba and Kennedy ended up in the big team ahead of schedule. But it's clear that they Yanks of 2009-2010 will be very different from the 2006-2007 Yanks.

Long term, the smart decisions taken by Cashman in 2005-2007 (in re: drafting and international signings, plus trades made and not made) will be the ones that shape the Yanks in the next decade......

P.S. Any statistic that says Damon was a better fielder than Melky in CF has to be seen as pretty doubtful, IMO.

Since the Yankees scored a billion runs, I don't think Minky killed them

RTFA: he's being somewhat facecious. His point is that Torre did a pretty good job this year, and if you want to justify his firing you really have to grasp at straws. The last two paragraphs:

Joe Torre is being blamed for 7 years of no championships in Yankee Stadium and that’s not fair. I could go back into previous years and calculate the same sort of numbers, but look at what Baseball Prospectus said about the Yankees’ odds of winning the World Series this year. About 10%. They weren’t even favored to win the Division Series. The playoffs really are a crapshoot. Even if a team is so good that the would win 60% of their playoff games if playoff series were a million games long, there’s still a 1 in 3 chance of losing a best-of-five series, and the Yankees haven’t been that good in a long time. The Yankees have no divine right to the World Series trophy, and there’s not a whole lot that the manager can do on the field to affect his team’s chances of winning that Joe Torre wasn’t already doing.

About the only thing of which Joe Torre is guilty is having too high an opinion of Doug Mientkiewicz. Maybe that’s what got him fired.

Hideki Matsui was actually a better left fielder than both of them

Really? I'm always telling Matsui to put a tent on that circus.

and I think his ranking of Damon, Melky and Matsui defensively is very range-dependent. Its no surprise that Damon has better range than the other two, but Melky's arm makes him at least as valuable in CF, maybe a little more.

I have no idea how he got that Matsui is the best LFer

Matsui most certainly is not a better defender than Damon or Melky, no matter what some one-year defensive measure says. Damon in left and Melky in center is the best defensive option, even if Damon is a little better as a fly-chaser, because of the difference in their arms.

I dare any of you to try to spell Min-kay-vich or Tish-air-uh at 2:00 am! I understand that the Yankees didn't want to trade any of their kids, but perhaps the 1B need could have also been addressed before the season on the free agent market, without the loss of any prospects? As to the Matsui/Damon/Cabrera defense question, I am using RZR, which is range based and doesn't incorportate arms. In that case, chalk another one up to Joe Torre.

Aleskel sums up my point perfectly. Joe Torre fell into the trap that sometimes, you do most everything right and it doesn't work. The only way that the Yankees can really justify his firing is to say that they have some sort of divine right to the World Series (and since he didn't get them there recently, he must be a bad manager), or to grasp at straws like how he stayed with Doug M. too long.

perhaps the 1B need could have also been addressed before the season on the free agent market, without the loss of any prospects?

It was. They signed Mientkiewicz.

The only way that the Yankees can really justify his firing is to say that they have some sort of divine right to the World Series (and since he didn't get them there recently, he must be a bad manager)

His contract was up. He wasn't fired. That's a distinction with a difference. As for justifying it: they wanted to go one year at a time from now on and he wanted a longer term commitment, so they parted ways. I have no problem understanding either side's position here.

As to the Matsui/Damon/Cabrera defense question, I am using RZR, which is range based and doesn't incorportate arms.

This is the problem with using one defensive stat for a team that you probably haven't watched all that much. Melky>Damon>>>>>>>>>>>Matsui.

Doug Mientkiewicz: History's greatest monster

Long term, the smart decisions taken by Cashman in 2005-2007 (in re: drafting and international signings, plus trades made and not made) will be the ones that shape the Yanks in the next decade......

That is, if they work.

I agree that the moves seem smart right now, but pitchers are always a scary thing to bank on. The Mets had Wilson, Isringhausen, and Pulsipher and great things were expected of them. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

That is, if they work.

I know the quote was calling them smart decisions, and you're right in general, but those are going to be the moves that shape the Yankees--for better or worse--for the next decade.

One word: Ohlendorf.

Well, I think the decision not to trade Melky or one of the young pitchers for Eric Gagne has to be seen as a smart decision (regardless of how any of those players pan out).

The Yanks don't just have Hughes, Joba and Kennedy. They have Horne, H. Sanchez, Brackman, Garcia, Whelan, Betances, Ohlendorff and a bunch of other young arms coming up.

While there's no such thing as a pitching prospect, having a bushel of young, promising pitchers in the system is surely a good way to catch lightning in a bottle....

BTW - The Randy Johnson trade has to be one of the better trades the Yankees have ever made. They got rid of $16MM (+/-), managed to sign Clemens (who all things being equal, may prove to be a career-moulding influence on the Hughes and Jobas of the world) got Vizcaino (who was halfway decent) and even Ohlendorf (who may well prove to be nothing more than a league average middle reliever, but you need your middle reliever types, especially when they're making league minimum. At least Ohlendorff is a better investment than Farnsworth).

The Sheffield trade may prove to be a good one, but will depend on whether H. Sanchez comes up and is acceptable.

I have to wonder if Torre didn’t say something to keep the Yankees from pushing harder for Mark Teixeira

Could the Yankees have beaten Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Elvis Andrus, Matt Harrison, Neftali Feliz, and Beau Jones for Teixeira and Ron Mahay without giving up Hughes and/or Chamberlain? I doubt it.

Minky didn't replace Phillips, it was the other way around. Phillips took over for 1B when Dougie Eyechart got hurt and was actually not bad, especially in comparison. The Mientkiewicz/Phelps/Cairo trio hurt the Yanks early but Phillips was decent offensively (I know an 88 OPS+ but look what he replaced) and great defensively until he was injured.

As to the Matsui/Damon/Cabrera defense question, I am using RZR, which is range based and doesn't incorportate arms.

Even with this, you need to somehow account for out of zone plays. I compare them to league average based on innings, David Gassko does it by balls in zone, Eric Van has a pretty complex though ingenious method for out of zone opps that he posted on Sons of Sam Horn.

Any way you do it, Melky and Damon come out way better than Matsui. And they also rate much better by the STATS zone rating.

Old news, but... the frustrating thing about the Yankees' 1B situation is that they had a good defender with offensive upside under contract last season but never gave him a chance at the major league level. Granted his 2006 minor league numbers were solid but unspectacular for a 28 year-old in AAA, but the Yankees saw fit to give Andy Phillips and his 65+ OPS at 1B 228 PA in 2006. So it's not a stretch to think that he could represented a net-improvement in 2006.

I'm talking of course about Carlos Pena. By the way, the guy just happened to lead all MLB 1B in OPS+ and hit 46 homers.

With hindsight, the Yankees could have kept Carlos Pena at 1st base - he wsa in Columbus last year. Or they could have kept Josh Phelps, who didn't show anything this year for the Yankees, but went to Pittsburgh, started raking, and now ZIPs projects him as a slightly above average hitting 1B for 2008.

To be fair to them, it was not obvious that either would be any better than Phillips. Andy has hit .300 with 33 homers and 68 walks in his last 549 AAA at bats, part in 2005 and part in 2007. Phelps played in AAA all of 2006 and hit 308/370/532. In 2006 Pena only hit 260/370/454 in Columbus. Without using hindsight its hard to fault the Yankees for what they did. Going forward I hope they give Shelly Duncan a full chance to win the 1B job.

it was not obvious that either would be any better than Phillips.

Not buying it. It wasn't obvious that Pena could do better than a 65 OPS+? In his worst season in the majors (2003) he managed a 108 OPS+. Given his prior accomplishment, there was no reason in 2006 to expect Phillips to outperform him at 1B, particularly given Pena's superior defense. The only advantage Phillips offered was the ability to play 2B or 3B (very poorly). No, the Yankees screwed up by not giving Pena a fair shot.

Was it obvious to expect Pena finally putting it together in 2007? No, that surprised everyone. But prior to 2006, Pena had established himself as a solid role player who would have been a greater asset to the Yankees than Phillips, who had done nothing to make anyone with an IQ above room temperature think that he would ever be more than a replacement-level spare part.

Even if you believe that all Pena was ever going to be was a mediocre hitting 1B with a good glove, he still offered a better overall package (and a helluva lot more upside) than the guy that the Yankees signed last winter: Mientkiewicz. Last winter, why did the Yankees sign an inferior, more expensive player than one that they had let go a few months ago?

No, the Yankees screwed up big time with Pena in 2006. And failing to realize his value as a role player cost them a chance to capitalize on the least expected monster years of 2007.

It wasn't obvious that Pena could do better than a 65 OPS+?

It was reasonable to think Phillips was capable of much more than a 65 OPS from his minor league track record.