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Wednesday, May 20, 2009

Steve Phillips chat on 05/20/09

Beltran Stays (New York): Steve, while I respect your work, I disagree with your statements about Carlos Beltran on Sunday Night Baseball. The guy has done nothing but produce, and name me a CF who’s better in the game right now.

SportsNation Steve Phillips: (1:28 PM ET ) If the Mets don’t make the playoffs, I firmly believe they need to reconfigure the core of this team. While Beltran does have talent, I just don’t see him as a winning player. Even after my comments on Sunday night, Beltran let a fly ball drop in between himself and Angel Pagan in the Dodger game. I see him putting up numbers but not making plays to win games. I would take Torii Hunter, Grady Sizemore, Curtis Granderson, and Nate McLouth over Beltran, and use the financial difference to improve the team in other ways. Beltran isn’t a $17 million dollar a year player. He just doesn’t have the kind of impact for that kind of money.

SportsNation Steve Phillips: (1:30 PM ET ) Many people think that Alex Rodriguez is the best player in the game, but he’s never won anything. I look at Beltran in a similar fashion as Rodriguez—a great talent that just doesn’t seem to have what it takes to win championships. Maybe the Mets can keep him and add pieces to the core around him and still win. But when you’re dealing with a budget and the screams of immediacy in New York, I’m not sure the Mets can wait to piece it together around him. I know there are a lot of people who disagree with me, but it’s just the way I see it. Beltran is a very good person and a solid citizen, in addition to being a guy who puts up numbers. I like him, I just don’t think they can win with him.

SportsNation Steve Phillips: (1:31 PM ET ) It’ll be interesting to see by this time next week if the NL has narrowed the gap on the AL, and whether the hot teams like the Brewers and Yankees will continue to roll or whether they will come back to Earth. Talk to you next week!

Tripon Posted: May 20, 2009 at 04:35 PM | 61 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 20, 2009 at 05:50 PM (#3186314)
I like shooting fish in a barrel because it is easy.
   2. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 20, 2009 at 05:51 PM (#3186316)
SLOWLY I turn... STEP by step... INCH by inch...
   3. JJ1986 Posted: May 20, 2009 at 05:53 PM (#3186319)
Beltran is the guy with the best offensive postseason run in history.
   4. twon8 Posted: May 20, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3186324)
and Mo Fncking Vaughan was a winning player? After having not played for a year? Shut your mouth.

I might give you Grady Sizemore based on age/salary, but other than him there isnt' a CF in the same ballpark as Beltran. And Steve chooses Nate McLouth or Torii Hunter over Beltran? this is why Phillips was a horrible GM.

The Mets' problems lie in the corner OF, not CF, NTS
   5. The Pequod Posted: May 20, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3186329)
a great talent that just doesn’t seem to have what it takes to win championships

He is right. If only he were able to pitch, like Nate McLouth and Torii Hunter.
   6. Loren F.'s well-anchored glenoid Posted: May 20, 2009 at 05:58 PM (#3186332)
More evidence why Steve Phillips doesn't have a job with a major league franchise.
   7. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:00 PM (#3186337)
Melky Cabrera has the most walkoff hits as a Yankee since coming up, IIRC. The Mets should definitely trade Beltran for a winning player like Melky.
   8. JJ1986 Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:01 PM (#3186339)
I would take Torii Hunter, Grady Sizemore, Curtis Granderson, and Nate McLouth over Beltran,


None of these guys have ever won a World Series. McLouth has been on last place teams his whole career.
   9. Los Angeles ALBERT F. PUJOLS of Anaheim Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:02 PM (#3186343)
I see him putting up numbers but not making plays to win games. I would take Torii Hunter, Grady Sizemore, Curtis Granderson, and Nate McLouth over Beltran
None of those guys have rings. Hunter's the only other one who's been in more playoff games.
   10. Tripon Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:03 PM (#3186345)
Torii Hunter: 152 OPS+ this, with a UZR: -1.8

He's not as good of a player as Beltran, and the end of that contract is going to suck. But he's still a good player today. And Hunter's 33 compared to Beltran who is 32.

I'm not sure the criticism is valid for Hunter here in this discussion.
   11. Nasty Nate Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:04 PM (#3186347)
I'm sick of these star players like Alfonso Soriano, Vlad Guerrero, Chris Truby and Carlos Beltran who cannot hit in the postseason.
   12. Los Angeles ALBERT F. PUJOLS of Anaheim Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:06 PM (#3186349)
Nobody's saying Hunter sucks. But only Phillips is saying he's better than Beltran.
   13. RJ not in TO Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:07 PM (#3186353)
I'm sick of these star players like <strike>Alfonso Soriano, Vlad Guerrero, Chris Truby and</strike> Carlos Beltran and Albert Belle who cannot hit in the postseason.


fixed
   14. Lassus: Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:10 PM (#3186362)
Grady Sizemore, Nate McClouth

Yeah, how are things going with Sizemore and Cleveland so far this year?
   15. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:11 PM (#3186363)
I would take Torii Hunter, Grady Sizemore, Curtis Granderson, and Nate McLouth over Beltran, and use the financial difference to improve the team in other ways.


I guess Hunter is paid in unicorns and rainbows.
   16. aleskel Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:13 PM (#3186369)
I look at Beltran in a similar fashion as Rodriguez--a great talent that just doesn’t seem to have what it takes to win championships.

"So you're asking, what does it take to win championships? Well, hire me to be GM of your team, and I just might show you!"
   17. hokieneer Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:17 PM (#3186378)
I see him putting up numbers but not making plays to win games.


How many people who have been a MAJOR FREAKING LEAGUE GM would equate stats /= plays to win. I can *see* morgan saying something like this, but a man who was paid to build a baseball team?
   18. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:24 PM (#3186388)
How many people who have been a MAJOR FREAKING LEAGUE GM would equate stats /= plays to win. I can *see* morgan saying something like this, but a man who was paid to build a baseball team?

A pennant-winning GM, no less.
   19. zonk Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:24 PM (#3186391)
How many people who have been a MAJOR FREAKING LEAGUE GM would equate stats /= plays to win. I can *see* morgan saying something like this, but a man who was paid to build a baseball team?


I suspect Hawk Harrelson did.

Steve Phillips is a GM you wish onto teams you hate.
   20. twon8 Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:36 PM (#3186412)
Beltran is making 1 million more than Hunter this year, .5 mil in '10, '11. How Phillips intends to turn the team around with 2 million extra spread over 3 years is confusing me. Oh, yeah, once '12 is factored in Torri is due 16million more than Beltran. I'll take Carlos Beltran.
   21. twon8 Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:37 PM (#3186414)
A pennant-winning GM, no less.


Bobby Valentine had much more to do with winning the pennant than Steve Phillips.
   22. Tripon Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:37 PM (#3186415)
But not Matt Kemp? For shame Steve Phillips, for shame. :)
   23. JJ1986 Posted: May 20, 2009 at 06:42 PM (#3186421)
Active players who have won World Series as starting CF: Victorino, Crisp, Rowand, Damon, Pierre, Erstad.
   24. Tripon Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:00 PM (#3186447)
And Damon, Pierre, and Erstad are now left fielders.
   25. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:01 PM (#3186449)
" I would take...Nate McLouth...and use the financial difference to improve the team in other ways."

And how, exactly, are you going to take him from the Pirates? Eminent domain?
   26. RJ not in TO Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:05 PM (#3186454)
And how, exactly, are you going to take him from the Pirates? Eminent domain?

Offer them Beltran?
   27. devil_fingers Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:20 PM (#3186478)
Torii Hunter... pretty much says it all. Almost as overrated as Jeter, except that Jeter at least was a great player at one time, while Hunter has never much beyond "above average."

Steve Phillips, the gift that keeps on giving.
   28. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:26 PM (#3186483)
Active players who have won World Series as starting CF: Victorino, Crisp, Rowand, Damon, Pierre, Erstad.


Jacoby Ellsbury started all four games of the 2007 World Series for the Red Sox.
   29. T.J. Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:29 PM (#3186487)
And how, exactly, are you going to take him from the Pirates? Eminent domain?

Every major and minor league league player is ultimately either a Yankee, Met, unwanted by either, or on loan from them. Don't you watch ESPN?
   30. Tripon Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:30 PM (#3186488)
Juan Pierre has 10 walks to Jacoby Ellsbury 8 walks.

That is amazing.
   31. RJ not in TO Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:31 PM (#3186491)
Every major and minor league league player is ultimately either a Yankee, Met, unwanted by either, or on loan from them. Don't you watch ESPN?

You forgot about the Red Sox. C'mon, can't you even get an East Coast Media Bias whine right?
   32. Crispix Attacks Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:33 PM (#3186497)
And you definitely need a better hitter than Beltran to be a World Series-caliber LF, like Scott Podsednik, Preston Wilson, Ricky Ledee, or Ryan Klesko and Luis Polonia.
   33. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:35 PM (#3186502)
"Offer them Beltran?"

Sure, twist my arm.
   34. T.J. Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:37 PM (#3186508)
Every major and minor league league player is ultimately either a Yankee, Met, unwanted by either, or on loan from them. Don't you watch ESPN?

You forgot about the Red Sox. C'mon, can't you even get an East Coast Media Bias whine right?

Mea culpa. I'd edit my comment to make myself look good retroactively, but I'd rather my shame remain.
   35. Tripon Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:39 PM (#3186512)
"Offer them Beltran?"

Sure, twist my arm.


Beltran and Wright for Andy Laroche, Delwyn Young, and Nate McLouth. The Pirates will also trow in Adam LaRoche so the Mets can get a first baseman.
   36. Crispix Attacks Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:43 PM (#3186519)
Littlefield would have already traded McLouth for Pedro Feliciano, Brian Schneider and Jose Coronado.
   37. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:50 PM (#3186539)
I'm pretty sure that's better than what the Pirates got for Aramis Ramirez.

*checks*

Yep. That's really sad.
   38. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 20, 2009 at 07:52 PM (#3186543)
Isiah Thomas and Matt Millen are intrigued by Steve's ideas and wish to subscribe to his newletter.
   39. Tripon Posted: May 20, 2009 at 08:36 PM (#3186595)
Matt Millen works for ESPN now. So they're co-workers!
   40. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: May 20, 2009 at 08:44 PM (#3186604)
Jacoby Ellbury won FREE TACOS for ALL OF AMERICA. Carlos Beltran never did. I rest my case.
   41. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: May 20, 2009 at 08:45 PM (#3186605)
I've never understood the mentality behind ######## like Phillips who seem to feel like if a team doesn't win a championship it's the fault of their best player. You add a good player to increase your team's chances of winning a championship, not so that player alone takes you there.The idea of one player carrying a team is a farce that people like Phillips should have figured out by now.
   42. MSalfino Posted: May 20, 2009 at 09:14 PM (#3186627)
The Mets should trade David Wright for Pedro Feliz and get some championship mojo working.
   43. Rough Carrigan Posted: May 20, 2009 at 09:24 PM (#3186633)
And how, exactly, are you going to take him from the Pirates? Eminent domain?


The Supreme Court's Kelo decision would allow it. Hell, it'd allow anything to be taken by eminent domain for just about any reason.
   44. Tripon Posted: May 20, 2009 at 09:25 PM (#3186634)
Randy Wynn would actually make sense for the Giants. Stick him in RF/LF, whatever, and trade the Giants Church/a reliever for him.

edit: Mets, not Giants.
   45. Benji Posted: May 20, 2009 at 11:40 PM (#3186797)
I started posting in here because I wanted to vent my deep hatred for Steve Phillips. So I suppose I should thank that friggin halfwit for all the enjoyment I find here. But then I think of Mo, Stanton, Howe, etc. and realize I will only thank Phillips if he takes a probe to Neptune.
   46. baudib Posted: May 20, 2009 at 11:44 PM (#3186812)
I have to think that Phillips:

A. Is trying to get attention by being contrarian/controversial
B. Is just trying to stick it to the Mets
   47. Raskolnikov Posted: May 20, 2009 at 11:53 PM (#3186842)
Here's all you need to know about Steve Phillips:

Back in 2002, Phillips needed to make a decision about Mo Vaughn.

So he watched Mo Vaughn take one day of *batting practice.*

Here was an aging player whose reputation on self-maintenance was always questionable, who had been out for an entire year with a serious injury, who was signed to an albatross of a contract ...

and Steve Phillips watched Vaughn take batting practice one day and decided the old Mo Vaughn was back.
   48. Benji Posted: May 20, 2009 at 11:57 PM (#3186847)
In his backyard batting cage in the middle of winter, too boot. The only reason Phillips isn't more hated is that Duquette was even more incompetent.
   49. RayDiPerna Posted: May 21, 2009 at 02:43 AM (#3187197)
While Beltran does have talent, I just don’t see him as a winning player. Even after my comments on Sunday night, Beltran let a fly ball drop in between himself and Angel Pagan in the Dodger game. I see him putting up numbers but not making plays to win games.


Beltran has been a fantastic player for the Mets. Beltran has hit .366/.485/.817 in four postseason series. Beltran hit .344/.440/.645 in September last year. He hit well (.882 OPS) in September in 2007. He did tank in September in 2006, but he hit for a .982 OPS that year.

Not a winning player? On what planet?

And I call BS on the fly ball that Beltran "let drop." He called Pagan off three times and Pagan kept coming. So Beltran had to pull up or risk a collision. That was Pagan's fault all the way.
   50. Obama Bomaye Posted: May 21, 2009 at 03:30 AM (#3187290)
He did tank in September in 2006

Please. He was obviously taking it easy in a season when he had been bothered by his hammy (I think) and the Mets were up by 16 on 9/1 and won the division by 12 games. His September was meaningless.
   51. RayDiPerna Posted: May 21, 2009 at 03:45 AM (#3187318)
Please. He was obviously taking it easy in a season when he had been bothered by his hammy (I think) and the Mets were up by 16 on 9/1 and won the division by 12 games. His September was meaningless.


"Tank" was a poor word choice on my part; I didn't mean that he intentionally played badly, just that he had played badly.

Though you _do_ seem to suggest that he took the month off :-)

I forgot that the Mets had the division wrapped up in September that year. And that makes my point even stronger: his bad September was indeed meaningless, and it didn't mean he couldn't produce under pressure, since there was no pressure to speak of. It didn't mean he wasn't a winning player, since there were no games to win.
   52. Raskolnikov Posted: May 21, 2009 at 04:13 AM (#3187383)
Beltran also hurt himself that September in Houston jumping into a chain link fence making a spectacular catch. Brilliant but stupid, as those games were meaningless, and Beltran nearly hurt himself seriously on that play.
   53. Obama Bomaye Posted: May 21, 2009 at 04:21 AM (#3187399)
"Tank" was a poor word choice on my part; I didn't mean that he intentionally played badly, just that he had played badly.

And I didn't infer that you meant he intentionally played badly. I was taking it more that you meant he wilted under the pressure (that one time), since that seems to be Phillips's general theme.


Though you _do_ seem to suggest that he took the month off :-)

I really only meant that his performance that month did not matter much, which is part of why he still might have deserved the MVP despite that month dragging his overall numbers down.

I do not remember the episode described by Raskolnikov (but I'm not a Mets fan).
   54. Gaelan Posted: May 21, 2009 at 04:30 AM (#3187410)
When Beltran is dropped off the hall of fame ballot in his first year of eligibility he will be the best player by far not in the hall of fame.
   55. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: May 21, 2009 at 10:50 AM (#3187489)
When Beltran is dropped off the hall of fame ballot in his first year of eligibility he will be the best player by far not in the hall of fame.


Yes, yes, but does anybody FEAR Beltran? I rest my case.
   56. RayDiPerna Posted: May 21, 2009 at 10:54 AM (#3187495)
And I didn't infer that you meant he intentionally played badly. I was taking it more that you meant he wilted under the pressure (that one time), since that seems to be Phillips's general theme.


Nah. I don't believe that major league baseball players wilt under pressure. Certainly not players of the caliber of Beltran.

Players who can't handle the pressure wash out long before they become successful major leaguers.
   57. Hack Wilson Posted: May 21, 2009 at 11:38 AM (#3187514)
Yes, yes, but does anybody FEAR Beltran? I rest my case.


Well there is that chain link fence in Houston.
   58. Rivers McCown Posted: May 21, 2009 at 12:31 PM (#3187583)

I look at Beltran in a similar fashion as Rodriguez--a great talent that just doesn’t seem to have what it takes to win championships.


"Of course, I could've signed ARod in 2000, since he was the best player in baseball and my team's shortstop was Rey Ordonez. But why do that when, for a fraction of the price, I could sign up Kevin Appier, Steve Trachsel, and Tsuyoshi Shinjo! Then I could retain Rick Reed, John Franco, and Turk Wendell!"
   59. Raskolnikov Posted: May 21, 2009 at 12:35 PM (#3187593)
I do not remember the episode described by Raskolnikov (but I'm not a Mets fan).

BASEBALL; Beltrán Slams Into Fence And Injures His Left Knee

By BEN SHPIGEL
Published: September 3, 2006

In one heart-stopping moment Saturday night, Carlos Beltrán turned the difficult trick of quieting the Mets' dugout and the raucous crowd at Minute Maid Park. His teammates fell silent with concern. The Astros fans, who have booed his every step this series, said nothing out of respect for what they had just seen ...
   60. Raskolnikov Posted: May 21, 2009 at 12:38 PM (#3187595)

"Of course, I could've signed ARod in 2000, since he was the best player in baseball and my team's shortstop was Rey Ordonez. But why do that when, for a fraction of the price, I could sign up Kevin Appier, Steve Trachsel, and Tsuyoshi Shinjo! Then I could retain Rick Reed, John Franco, and Turk Wendell!"


You missed the most brilliant part. Taking a decent 3Bman in Todd Zeile and converting him to a below average 1Bman. Steve Phillips, what a mind.
   61. Rivers McCown Posted: May 21, 2009 at 12:39 PM (#3187596)
Oh that was really brilliant, but that happened after 1999, not 2000.
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