Yup. If he doesn't finish his career in St. Louis, there ought to be an investigation.

i don't want to think about it. it's like trying to figure out what's beyond the end of the universe.

What I keep expecting is the Cardinals to listen to their idiot writers/fans and spend a big amount of money on a guy like Brad Penny and then to honestly not have enough money for Pujols. There is no reason why the Cardinals shouldn't get this guy signed, but I doubt that Pujols is even thinking about negotiating during the season.

I honestly might have to take a year or two off from baseball if Pujols left. He is literally the reason I became a baseball fan. It'd certainly give me some perspective on how Sam M. must have felt when Seaver was traded.

here is a thought, cfb. last night the guys on the ESPN broadcast were talking about how long tony would be around. part of the speculation was that tony and the management were not 100% on the same page, and it was about tony wanting to get proven veterans vs. the gm's bunch wanting to bring along the kids, and so maybe tony would be moving on.
maybe if tony isn't around by the time albert's contract is up, the war will be won by the youth contingent and there won't be a lot of big contracts to worry about other than albert.

I seriously don't think TLR will be on the team next season, Oquendo will be the manager, TLR will be in Cincy and the Cardinals will be in full force youth mode. To the point that I imagine that even Yadier won't be a Cardinal by 2011.

Pujols claims he will work with the team to try and stay if they put a competitive team. I have no idea how true that is or not, but I would think that the team needs to develop some pitching or spend on it if they want to continue being competitive. I like Lohse and the others, but if the team is going to produce above average offense with the players they are developing(which seems likely) then the savings should be put into getting a legitimate high quality pitcher instead of retreads being converted to acceptable pitching.

Pujols is incredible, but the idea of a projection six years into the future is so absurd, I'm not sure how in the world anyone could possibly take it seriously.

yadier? geez, he'll be all of 28 in 2011. well, i guess that means he'll be two years older and two years slower in 2011, but it seemed like just yesterday he was the youngest fulltime catcher on a pennant winner ever.

i think pujols will work with the team. he has some deep roots in st. louis, doesn't he?

well, joey, the only thing useful about that 6-yr projection is that it illustrates how high a bar pujols has set already. short of getting hit by a truck, albert's worth isn't going down significantly by the end of his contract.

I was going to post something dramatic, but I like phred's #2, and will second it.

The Cards need one more quality starter. If this season goes in the tank - and unless someone other than Albert and occasionally Rasmus starts hitting, it's heading that way - they need to see if one of the AAA guys like Boggs or Hawksworth is going to make it. If not, the plan for next year is to sign somebody like Jon Garland on a short deal, put Wallace in the lineup at 3d, and hope that one of the minor league OFs (Jones?) forces his way into the lineup in place of Ankiel, who you let walk. That should be enough to be competitive.

Of course, the Cards are only .5 game out of first, so if Albert is interpreting the "competetive" thing literally, he's got to be satisfied with this season. Sure, he's the reason they're .5 back, but still.

So yeah, SIGN PUJOLS. Give him whatever megaextension is needed. I don't care about the club's longterm finnacial future, I care about my mental wellbeing, which will decrease drastically if Albert goes anywhere else. I'm not sure I could take it, to be honest.

Yadier will be deep in his arby years and I see the team wanting to go Anderson, Pagnozzi or something else. This team under Mo hasn't shown me any evidence that he is going to pursue or attempt to keep any player, and until he does, my opinion is that it is safe to assume he won't. Mind you, I'm not one of those guys that think 'spending money = trying' which seems to be a popular perception among St Louis fans.

The team claims they have money to afford a player and yet haven't attempted to talk to anyone about extending, locking them up or any of that stuff. We didn't pursue Pedro or any other free agents except the one that would have been a clearly bad signing (Fuentes) and that was in an attempt to appease TLR who has a fetish for veteran relievers.

So there is evidence that the team wants to keep TLR (Kennedy dumping, Fuentes pursuit) but nothing of substance that indicates they will make a move or attempt to keep the quality of team that they have enjoyed over the recent past.

Yadier will be deep in his arby years

Yadier is signed through 2011, with a $7M club option for 2012. No arb for him, but I'd be surprised if they pick up that option (unless Pujols forces their hand).

Yadier will be deep in his arby years

That's a beautiful turn of phrase. Reminiscent of Lewis Carroll:

"Didst see the Jabberwock through tears?
A fiercer creature than the Snark,
Or Yadier, deep in Arby Years,
Amid the Vorpal Dark."

Or, possibly, Tolkien:

"To Buschstad, then, O Halflings, must we go. Yadier will be deep in his arby years, but no other wisdom east of the Sundering Sea can withstand the probing eye of the Budselig."

Pujols is 29. He’s in his ninth season. There’s lots of baseball left in him.[/quote]

I'm torn about that final statement - Pujols isn't old, and hasn't missed a lot of time with injuries, he has been hurt a lot. While his ability to play through pain and still hit like he does is amazing, I have to wonder how well his body is going to hold up long term as all these little problems continue to accumulate.

With that being said, I would sign him to a long-term deal in a second, if I had the chance.

They dream only of America
To be lost deep in Yadier's arby years:
"This honey is delicious
Though it burns the throat."

Only three players — all lefthanded hitters — have a higher OPS than Pujols’ 1.053. You may have heard of them: Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Lou Gehrig.

I was wondering why Bonds wasn't on that list. Turns out his career OPS was 1.051. But an OPS+ of 182, compared to Pujols' 171.

Pujols is going to look great in Yankee pinstripes.

:-P

getouttahere!

Pujols is going to look great in Yankee pinstripes.

That made me throw up on my desk.

You know who would look great in Yankee pinstripes? Kobe ####### Bryant, that's who.

I don't think there's any price the cards won't meet to keep pujols in st. louis.

Hell they might just even give him a share of the club.

You know who would look great in Yankee pinstripes?

1b Mientkiewicz
2b K Matsui
SS Jeter
3b Josh Fields
LF Endy Chavez
CF Willy Tavares
RF Brian Giles
DH Elijah Dukes

Sp Jose Lima
Sp Oliver Perez
Sp Kip Wells
SP Dontrelle Willis
Sp Sidney Ponson

closer Fernando Rodney.

that is a Yankee team that I could get behind.

Before we get "decline phase" comments (surprised we haven't had any yet) ...

Through age 29, Pujols is tied for 5th in OPS with Thomas and just behind Jimmie Foxx. He's tied for 8th in OPS+ with Musial (!) and Thomas and Hornsby are the only RH players ahead of him.

Of course there are some cautionary tales on that leaderboard. Thomas lasted but put up "only" a 134 OPS+ from age 30. Mantle continued to hit but only made it to 36. And Foxx was basically done after 33.

If he doesn't finish his career in St. Louis, there ought to be an investigation.

Sorry, but it happens the other way all the time. Mays didn't finish with the Giants, Aaron didn't finish with the Braves, Ruth didn't finish with the Yankees and those were all much more unthinkable. More recently, Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz all left the Braves (yes, Glavine came back and finished with them ... that went well), Sosa didn't finish with the Cubs, Thomas didn't finish with the White Sox etc. Especially with FA and the DH, there's a very good chance that Albert will wander on in his late 30s, early 40s.

its possible, but we really need him for about 5 more years i'd say, so we prob. will be signing him for 10.

but most of those examples are late career endings, I don't really think that was what the post was saying when it said
If he doesn't finish his career in St. Louis, there ought to be an investigation.

the point stands that the Cardinals should do everything to maximize Alberts years in St Louis.

If he ever wound up as a Yankee or Red Sock, I might take a hostage.

I can deal with his being on another team if it's a case of his hanging on too long in his 40s, but I can't deal with seeing him on another team while still productive. I don't care if the deal extends beyond the point of his usefulness and overpays him in the latter years. Get. It. Done.

He's not going to be a Red Sock or a Yankees.

Mets though. He might be a Met.

well, joey, the only thing useful about that 6-yr projection is that it illustrates how high a bar pujols has set already. short of getting hit by a truck, albert's worth isn't going down significantly by the end of his contract.

You could have said the same thing about Frank Thomas after 1997.

In order of teams I don't want to see Pujols playing for

1. Cubs
2. Yankees
3. Mets
4. Red Sox
5. White Sox
6, 7, 8, 9. Brewers, Reds, Astros, Pirates(yea right)

32. Cardinals

but I can see any of the big market teams getting him if the Cardinals don't resign him, my longshot odds is the Angels(with Vlads contract soon coming off the books and their constant competitiveness in both the season and in hunts for free agents)

Pujols is not Bo Jackson or anything but he's much more athletic than Frank Thomas was at the same age. Not that Frank Thomas was built like Mo Vaughn but he was still a big, big dude and as such more likely to break down than Pujols (who is big, but at 6'3 230 I believe - Thomas is listed 6'5 257 at B-Ref, which means by the time he was Pujols age he was probably 10 pounds heavier than that, conservatively - Pujols for example is 20 pounds heavier than his listed rookie weight).

You could have said the same thing about Frank Thomas after 1997.
Thomas is an equal-to-better hitter than Albert at this point(same age) in their careers, but Albert is a bit more athletic and is a much better defensive player so it's not hard to project him to probably aging better(and maintaining high value even when the bat starts to go)

I owe El Hombre a coke.

well, sure, and in 1997 keeping frank thomas would have been the right move. nobody knew he was going to have some bad seasons, anymore than they know albert will decline quickly or not. meanwhile, from a business standpoint keeping him makes sense. he puts fans in the seats. they generate revenue that a smart franchise would use to develop talent to offset albert's decline on the field.

this is in reply to 27

Thomas is an equal-to-better hitter than Albert at this point(same age) in their careers, but Albert is a bit more athletic and is a much better defensive player so it's not hard to project him to probably aging better(and maintaining high value even when the bat starts to go)

People (including myself) said this about Derrek Lee, comparing him to Paul Konerko, about four years ago.

Derrek Lee has a career 122 OPS+ and has put up 112 and 110 in two of the past three years and is putting up a 107 this year. Not exactly a drop off a cliff.

Derrek Lee has a career 122 OPS+ and has put up 112 and 110 in two of the past three years and is putting up a 107 this year. Not exactly a drop off a cliff.

I was going to go there, you have to stop stealing my material. :)
but yes, outside of a career year, Lee goes 131, 131, 117, 174, 112, 131, 110, 107(this season) I don't see any falling off of the cliff, just a career year and within normal range(110-131) of ops+

Christ, he'll only be 31 when this contract's up.

1. Cubs
2. Yankees
3. Mets
4. Red Sox
5. White Sox
6, 7, 8, 9. Brewers, Reds, Astros, Pirates(yea right)


The Yankees have 1B locked up for 7 more years. I highly doubt they sign Pujols to push Tex to DH.

The Red Sox, Mets and Angels all seem possible.

Plus Lee had a wrist injury in there.

You could have said the same thing about Frank Thomas after 1997.

This is a little frustrating. After 1997, Thomas hit 276/389/515 for a 134 OPS+ ... a rate of production that could only be considered "disappointing" compared to Frank Thomas through 1997. And while hardly a paragon of durability, he managed to average 480 PA over those 11 seasons. Mark Teixeira just got $22 M a year in hopes that he'll do that.

I completely agree that the Cards should sign Pujols long-term. Whether they want to save some money while increasing risk by doing it now or running the risk of having to break the bank two years from now while having the protection of seeing if he gets hurt or declines in the next two years ... I don't really have a good sense.

But, earlier this year, we had a "players of the next decade" thread and I still put Pujols at 1B. True, he probably won't end up being the best 1B of the 2010s but he's got as good or better a shot at it than any current 1B. I fully expect him to age like Aaron -- he'll be as good at 39 as he was at 23, he just won't be able to make it out on the field quite as much.

#28 ... how odd! Our lists look identical except that I'd switch #1 and #32.

(OK, not quite ... the White Sox would be higher, the Mets outrank the Yanks on the hate scale.)

The Yankees have 1B locked up for 7 more years. I highly doubt they sign Pujols to push Tex to DH.

And I'm pretty sure they want DH for post-surgery AROD.

Tony goes to Cincy to join Walt, they sign Albert to put him between Votto and Bruce, Albert's foot problems push him into retirement though still HOF worthy, Marty sets himself on fire and Tony is found naked in a Motel 6 cluching a kitten insisting that if pets the kitten enough "it will be all better".

Everybody wins

Except the kitten.

#28 ... how odd! Our lists look identical except that I'd switch #1 and #32.

(OK, not quite ... the White Sox would be higher, the Mets outrank the Yanks on the hate scale.)

the Mets usually outrank the Yankees on the hate scale, but I'm always against the Yankees getting any free agent. And I can understand your dislike of the White Sox more, but as a general rule I go against the two New York teams and the Boston team when it comes to hoping they don't get a free agent.