Where would the A's be now, if Beane hadn't traded Mulder to the Cards? Shudder to think.

Where would they be if Beane hadn't traded Hudson to the Braves?

Where would the Cardinals be if they had kept Danny Haren and dealt Barton to an AL team for something less downward-trending than Mulder? Or even if they had just kept Danny Haren, period?

The truth is still out there

The X-Files references when mentioning Mark Mulder are altogether too few these days.

The Cards would be a total powerhouse. This is one of my favorite hypotheticals. If they hadn't made the Mulder deal, you could conceive of them (not only having won a ton more games over '05-'07) having every player they currently have on the roster, plus most of the Athletics (Barton plus the entire haul from the D-Backs). I like to further imagine that the St Louis training staff could have kept Barton behind the plate. In this scenario they are the team to beat in the NL for years to come and are in the discussion as major baseball dynasty of the current decade.

ETA: "The X-Files references when mentioning Mark Mulder are altogether too few these days." Mark Mulder references themselves are hard to find lately. As an aside, does he look exactly like Scott Speedman to anyone else, or is that just me? I've never been able to get over this.

I like to further imagine that the St Louis training staff could have kept Barton behind the plate. In this scenario they are the team to beat in the NL for years to come and are in the discussion as major baseball dynasty of the current decade.

Technically Molina is outhitting Barton so far this year even with the rigors of catching. Obviously Barton probably is the better hitter long term, but Molina has turned himself into being serviceable and he's at worst the 2nd/3rd best catcher defensively behind the plate. It's not too definite Barton develops the power to be a good big leaguer.

Would those of you who are Cards fans go back in time and undo the Haren trade? I.E. would you trade that 1 guaranteed world series win for what is behind door #3? i'm curious.

(by the way, i'm not trying to snuff out discussion/regrets of the trade, which are valid even if you would choose not to go back and undo the trade)

I wanted to undo it the second it was done, and I still want to undo it.

Mulder didn't add anything to that WS team that Haren wouldn't have (other than being a left-hander with a 7+ era), and I believe thay'd have been a better team in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008.

Would those of you who are Cards fans go back in time and undo the Haren trade? I.E. would you trade that 1 guaranteed world series win for what is behind door #3? i'm curious.

why would that trade figure into the world series win? I still somewhat defend the trade based upon what the Cardinals perceived their need to be at the time of the trade, even at the trade I was somewhat upset that we traded both Barton and Calero I really didn't think it was necessary to add both, I figured that if they were going with Barton they should have pulled Calero off the table.

why would that trade figure into the world series win?

unintended consequences. e.g. if I magically put Brandon Webb into the 2007 red sox rotation instead of wakefield, they might not win the world series. (but biff might be waxing my car right now)

ok, I could see that. (for example if we would have had Haren we may not have gotten Weaver which may have led to different results)

Considering that Harens first season for the A's was as good if not better than Mulders first season(including innings pitched) for the Cardinals and the primary reason for the trade was proven that it was not necessary. That is the difficult part for Cardinal fans to get over, even at the time of the trade many felt Haren would be good enough in the rotation.

I thought that Haren + Barton was a stretch, Haren + Calero was acceptable but all three was a little too much.

Why limit yourself to the one hypothetical? If you're going to start daydreaming, a rotation of Ankiel, Carpenter, Kile, Haren, and Wainwright is a nice one to spend some time on.

the cardinals had sliiiiightly more control on trading away Haren than they did on the loss of the others... but that is one mean hypothetical rotation.

Where would they be if Beane hadn't traded Hudson to the Braves?

They wouldn't have Dan Meyer pitching in AAA. If they struck paydirt with the draft picks obtained through Hudson's departure as a free agent, they'd have somebody better. If the players obtained through the draft got hurt as Meyer did, they'd probably be right where they are now.

(but biff might be waxing my car right now)

Pfffft. You wish!

Cany anyone spell blackened tuna?