Or as ex-mulleteer, Mitch Williams (adjusts chair, suit, crotch area all at once) said last night..."Where I come from, one point is better than four points...I walk Pujols every time with the bases loaded.”

Did he really say that?

Did he really say that?

He says it all the time...when it comes to Pujols.

That's why he's in the Hall of Fame!

I was a big Frank Thomas fan when I was younger, and I remember reading a lot of quotes from opposing pitchers and managers along the same lines: "I'd rather give them a run than give Thomas the chance to get 4". I seriously doubt anyone ever intentionally or un-intentionally intentionally walked Thomas with the bases loaded. It's just hyperbole.

The Mets are all about giving.

I seriously doubt anyone ever intentionally or un-intentionally intentionally walked Thomas with the bases loaded. It's just hyperbole.

He was never intentionally walked with the bases loaded, but it wouldn't be at all surprising to find out that there was at least an occasion or two where a pitcher put himself in a 3-0 hole against Thomas with the bases loaded, and the coach just told him to put him on, rather than risk grooving one. Of course, in that situation, it'd be hard to tell apart from a normal "I have no idea where this pitch is going" walk.

I was at this game. It was a real sad-sack performance from the Mets. Santana gutted out 8 innings in which he didn't have his best stuff, the Mets scored enough to go into the 9th leading . . . the word blecch was invented for just this sort of occasion. After DeRosa was hit with the pitch, people groaned, and then Pujols hit that grand slam and the whole stadium just stood up and walked away.

Pujols did seem invincible, though. I'd forgotten he was in a slump.

I wasn't able to get the Cardinals radio broadcast to come in on MLB online, so I was listening to WFAN's feed, and I was surprised by how quickly, according to the announcers, the fans started flocking out after Pujols's slam. Admittedly, it was the 9th and the Mets were suddenly down by 5, but it was almost as if people were packing up their stuff before the ball even cleared the fence.

Meanwhile, that's five grand slams for Pujols this year. Does Mattingly still hold the single-season record--and am I right that it was 6 in 1986?

It was the 10th, actually, and there was a real air of frustration in the park the whole night. As soon as Santana gave up the first run, the big Jamaican dude sitting next to me said, "Here we go." That attitude was general. When Rodriguez loaded the bases after allowing the tying runs in the ninth, the guys in front of me had this little exchange:

GUY #1: So, what do you suppose happens here?
GUY #2: I assume it's gonna be a walk.
G#1: That sounds about right.

So when the go-head run scored on a bases loaded HBP to a slumping hitter, people were already getting antsy. And you're right, pretty much as soon as it became clear that Pujols' hit was going to clear the fence, everybody (at least in my section) stood up to go. As I was leaving, I heard one kid suggest to another that the Mets could still come back, and the reply was, "Yeah, but they're not gonna. These guys suck."

And there was truth to it. In the bottom of the 9th, I was looking at the Mets' lineup, trying to see if there was someone who might end it with a single swing of the bat. With Delgado, Betran and Reyes all out and David Wright doing his best Tony Gwynn impression, the answer was a resounding "NO". Sheffield had been benched for defense as part as a double-switch that left Angel Berroa (yeah, that Angel Berroa) batting cleanup, and it was just a no-good, very-bad lineup all around, man. It was gross.

Meanwhile, that's five grand slams for Pujols this year. Does Mattingly still hold the single-season record--and am I right that it was 6 in 1986?

On the broadcast last night, they said he'd tied Ernie Banks with five in '55, IIRC. On second thought, maybe they said he tied the NL record.

On second thought, maybe they said he tied the NL record.

That is so. MLB Tonight mentioned that.

Post 4:

Bonds was walked with the bases loaded back in 1998.

The Diamondbacks led San Francisco, 8-6, with two out when Bonds walked to the plate with the bases loaded. When he walked to first base, the run forced in by the rare intentional walk made it 8-7. Gregg Olson, who had walked five other batters in the eighth and ninth, went to a 3-2 count on Brent Mayne before getting him on a line drive to right field, ending the game.

Phil Garner often stated as manager of the Brewers he would walk Frank in that situation. And anyone who followed Milwaukee believed him.

Brewer pitchers walked Thomas with the bases loaded on 8-16-96 and 6-28-98. In all, Thomas walked 23 times in his career with the bases loaded. Five of those walks came in 2006, oddly enough. Love that B-Ref PI.

Does Mattingly still hold the single-season record--and am I right that it was 6 in 1986?

it was 1987, and those were the only Slams that Donnie Baseball hit in his entire career

It was the 10th, actually, and there was a real air of frustration in the park the whole night.

I was at the game too. You aren't kidding. There were people in my section with bags over there heads. The fans are just comepletly feedup, the two collapses and then this disaster or a team.

The Met's just played terriable ball. I think Sheffield maybe the worst outfielder I have ever seen at this point,and that is saying something when Daniel Murphy was playing the outfield at the start of the season.

Bob:

Intentional walks?

That is the key distinction.

Travis Hafner also hit 6 grand slams in 2006....

Jerome Holzmann claims there have only been 3 IBBs with the bases loaded in MLB history

Lajoie, Swish Nicholson, & Bonds

EDIT: completely forgot: The Rays did it last year to Josh Hamilton

Yeh, whatever...this season has turned me to ash.

Meanwhile, after feeling for most of the season that the Cardinals were doomed any time they fell behind by as few as two runs, I now have the sort of confidence in the offense that I haven't felt since probably 2005. It's just such a fun team to follow right now--we may pay for it down the road with a barren farm system, but thus far the recent trades have produced nothing but joy.

I just love the fact that Wild Thing was advocating walking Pujols in that situation -- at least in the scenario described in [12]:

1) The Diamondbacks had the lead
2) They were on the road
3) A base hit would've ended the game
4) The guy behind Bonds was Brent Mayne

Last night:

1) The Mets were DOWN one run
2) The Mets had last licks regardless of what happened
3) The guy behind Pujols was Matt Holliday

Who else did the Mets have in the pen besides Green? (I would also ask about Stokes getting pulled after facing all of 1 batter, but I just checked his performance this year vs. LHB - .311 / .402 / .446; still, why not just work around Ankiel & keep him in there on the offchance that the game actually stays tied for a while?)

(I would also ask about Stokes getting pulled after facing all of 1 batter, but I just checked his performance this year vs. LHB - .311 / .402 / .446; still, why not just work around Ankiel & keep him in there on the offchance that the game actually stays tied for a while?)

I think the right move is to bring Green in first for the one batter and hold Stokes to face DeRo, Pujols, Holliday.

Thanks for editing, I could've swore Hamilton recieved a loaded IBB last year. I heard two talk show buffoons suggest that they would do it everytime to Albert.

That's outside of the real right move, which is to DFA Green, because he is awful.

That's outside of the real right move, which is to fire Omar Minaya & force the Wilpons to sell the team, because they are awful.

Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth: Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him." (Proverbs 24:17-18, King James Version).........So, in that spirit, let me say LETS GO METS!

[25] Testify, Essex!

Being down two to the Mets is like being up three on other teams.

Or as ex-mulleteer, Mitch Williams (adjusts chair, suit, crotch area all at once) said last night ... I walk Pujols every time with the bases loaded.”

Yeah, you probably would. Maybe not on purpose, though.

I know Mets fans are frustrated, but I was more happy to beat up on K-rod than the Mets. No offense to the team, but K-rod has a reputation as an elite closer and that really hasn't been the case in at least three seasons.

I like how one 4-5 night can destroy a week of poor play(and luckily the Citi has relatively small foul zones or he would have fouled out probably two times

The sidebar in the article indicates Travis Hafner tied Mattingly's record in 2006.

I'm sure I'll owe someone a Coke by the time I post this.

EDIT: #17 wins the soda.

K-rod has a reputation as an elite closer and that really hasn't been the case in at least three seasons.

b...b...but...the saves record!1

As for Hurt, he drew three 4-pitch bases-loaded walks in his career: in 1992, 2002 and 2006.

Working in reverse:

-2006 was the season with Oakland, during one of his renaissance periods of course. Not exactly the feared Thomas you'd expect to get the treatment. And anyway, the score was 6-0. Throw this one in the "no" pile.

-2002 was also during one of his renaissance periods. He missed basically all of 2001 and had just a 118 OPS+ in 2002 with 28 bombs. Doubt this was intentional either. It was in the top of the 12th inning and the ChiSox were already up 2. No.

-1992 is the most plausible. Not sure if he'd have yet gotten the reputation necessary but obviously deserved it. It was in the bottom of the 7th and the Tigers were ahead 2-0. Kurt Knudsen came out of the pen, walked Grebeck to load the bases, and then walked Hurt on 4 pitches to score a run. He then struck out George Bell to end the inning. The Tigers would win the game 3-1.

I think Sheffield maybe the worst outfielder I have ever seen at this point,and that is saying something when Daniel Murphy was playing the outfield at the start of the season.

How soon we forget the "Todd Hundley, left fielder" experiment. Worse than Piazza at first times Murphy in left to the power of Sheffield anywhere.

Baseball Digest had an article years ago that said Mel Ott was intentionally walked with the bases loaded but according to Wiki the walk was on a 3 and 2 pitch. So possible but not likely. Wiki's list has the following Abner Dalrymple (1881), Nap Lajoie (1901), Del Bissonette (1928), Bill Nicholson (1944), Barry Bonds (1998), and Josh Hamilton (2008). Beware in trusting Wiki but an article on Ott does cite Treder.

Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: August 05, 2009 at 12:07 PM (#3281155)

I think Sheffield maybe the worst outfielder I have ever seen at this point,and that is saying something when Daniel Murphy was playing the outfield at the start of the season.


How soon we forget the "Todd Hundley, left fielder" experiment. Worse than Piazza at first times Murphy in left to the power of Sheffield anywhere.

- how soon we forget the "mike Lamb - left fielder" experiment. not to mention the Craig Biggio - left fielder disaster

- and anyone who really thought that albert was cooked/through/deteriorating don't know Uncle real too good, is all i can say

Del Bissonette (1928),

Yup, you can't let a guy like Del Bissonette beat you.

P.S. Del Bissonette isn't nearly as crappy as I first imagined. I was envisioning Hod Lisenbee's position playing equivalent. A 144 OPS+ as a 28 year old rookie?? What's his story?

P.S P.S. Frick I love old-timey baseball names. When did people stop naming their kids Hod? And can we get a few more Cajuns in the Majors?

P.S. P.S. P.S. I saw Billy Ashley play minor league outfield and he was atrocious. I'm not sure where he grades on the Reimer scale though.

Sorry, Harveys, I had to go teach class and didn't answer your question from #16. All Thomas's bases-loaded walks were officially unintentional, but who knows if a manager mightn't have told him "I won't hit the roof if you should happen to walk in a run in this situation" ...

Thomas was once intentionally walked with the bases empty. There were two outs in the seventh inning of this game. The score was tied. Dennis Cook was charged with the intentional walk. Of course, only the last pitch may have been "intentional." It worked; John Kruk followed with an unintentional walk, but Robin Ventura flied out to end the inning.

P.S. Del Bissonette isn't nearly as crappy as I first imagined. A 144 OPS+ as a 28 year old rookie?? What's his story?

Not that I know with any certainty, but it looks like it was just a matter of being stuck behind another player - Babe Herman was handling 1B for the Dodgers in 1926 and 1927, and he was a reasonable decent hitter (and notably terrible fielder) in his own right.

I know Mets fans are frustrated, but I was more happy to beat up on K-rod than the Mets. No offense to the team, but K-rod has a reputation as an elite closer and that really hasn't been the case in at least three seasons.

K-Rod has saved 88% of his save oppurtunities in the last 3 years and I'll take that from my closer. He's not the best closer in baseball but there's only a handful of guys I'd prefer to him.

Thomas was once intentionally walked with the bases empty.

Pfft. Bonds did that 19 times in 2004 alone.

Three times in this game.

P.S P.S. Frick I love old-timey baseball names. When did people stop naming their kids Hod? And can we get a few more Cajuns in the Majors?

There's not a lot of guys born in Winthrop, Maine in the majors anymore either. Maybe Bissonette was one of those French-Canadian migrant workers in the potato fields that John Steinbeck wrote about in "Travels with Charley".

Just looking trough BRef, Frank Thomas was intentionally walked 168 times in his career. Ichiro has been intentionally walked 138 times in a much shorter career?!?! Does every AL manager by into the "Ichiro has power" nonsense?

EDIT: Just found that A-rod has only redieved 84 IBB in his career. This doesn't make sense.

Just looking trough BRef, Frank Thomas was intentionally walked 168 times in his career. Ichiro has been intentionally walked 138 times in a much shorter career?!?! Does every AL manager by into the "Ichiro has power" nonsense?

There are instances in the game when I would definitely walk Ichiro despite his lack of power. Anytime a single would kill you, Ichiro might be the last guy you'd want to face.

Anytime a single would kill you, Ichiro might be the last guy you'd want to face.

Unless your infielders really suck, an infield single wouldn't be much worse than a walk, if at all.

EDIT: Just found that A-rod has only redieved 84 IBB in his career. This doesn't make sense.

There's not a lot of times when Arod is batting and the guy on deck is a bad hitter. 1997 - Ken Griffey or Jay Buhner. 1999 - Edgar Martinez or Ken Griffey. 2002/03 - Rafael Palmeiro or Juan Gonzalez. 2007 - Giambi, Matsui or Posada. (just to choose a sample of years)

EDIT: Just found that A-rod has only redieved 84 IBB in his career. This doesn't make sense.

In Seattle, he was in a lineup with Griffey, Edgar, and Buhner, so they ran a huge risk with putting him on. In Texas, they were always losing, so no one cared. With the Yankees, there's been Jeter, Posada, Giambi, Tex, Damon, Matsui, and so on, so (like with the Mariners) there's not a lot of relief to intentionally walking him.

EDIT: Basically, what Crispix said.

Just to get a sense of the court, I throw this question out to all parties: If it was within your power to choose (and have the player agree), which of the trio of top Mets reliever(s) would you keep and which would you let go? Who would you make the Mets closer for 2010: Rodriguez, Wagner, or Putz?

Again, open to all, because I'm interested in hearing all opinions on this one.

DB

Ryan, Crispix I see your point. But he never came up with 1st open and 1 out in an innings? If the choice is to face Griff or A-Rod, but you can face one with a DP chance, wouldn't you go for that?

It's amazing to me that, in 7 less seasons, Ichiro has 50 more IBB than A-Rod.

K-Rod has saved 88% of his save oppurtunities in the last 3 years and I'll take that from my closer. He's not the best closer in baseball but there's only a handful of guys I'd prefer to him.

I'll take him, isn't the same thing as I want him though. and a 1.2+ whip is not elite closer material no matter how you look at it. I honestly think he is more overrated by traditional baseball people than Jeter (which is funny in that most traditionalist will bemoan the save, but then prop up the guys with a lot)

Ryan, Crispix I see your point. But he never came up with 1st open and 1 out in an innings?

Almost certainly, but it'd have to be late in the game, with the score close (but not too close, since you don't want to put the tying or winning run on), with the proper reliever ready to go, and with someone likely to hit it on the ground coming to the plate.

With all those conditions, and considering his teammates (and non-clutch reputation), it's not surprising that A-Rod doesn't have that many IBBs.

Rodriguez, Wagner, or Putz?

is there any guarantee that Wagner will be healthy next year? if so he is my first choice. He has reached what I call elite status as a closer, something Krod never really did. Heck Wagners worse season since 2001 is better than K-rods best.

There's not a lot of guys born in Winthrop, Maine in the majors anymore either. Maybe Bissonette was one of those French-Canadian migrant workers in the potato fields that John Steinbeck wrote about in "Travels with Charley".

Yes he was, although the story I heard was his father was working in forestry, not potatoes. He grew up in Quebec and was a native French speaker.