Are the comments from the poster supposed to be longer than the article snippet?

Is a lineup with Murphy at 2nd and Tatis in left good enough?

Such a line-up would very likely resemble Charlie Brown's team defensively at those two positions. Tatis isn't going to get a whole lot better as a left fielder, which is to say he's going to continue to suck. Murphy has actually gotten some nice reviews as a neophyte second baseman in the AFL, which is to say he'd still be sub-standard at best in his debut season as a major leaguer there in 2009.

Could the Mets live with that? I suppose. On the second base side of it, Murphy's bat would be such a plus that I think the answer is yes. But I'd be a lot happier with a real left fielder and with Tatis as the fourth outfielder and a real force off the bench as the primary pinch hitter. He'd be the best guy the Mets have had in that role in a long time. An Evans/Tatis platoon would be strong offensively, but border somewhere between comedy and tragedy defensively.

How would a Tatis/Evans platoon work?

How would a Tatis/Evans platoon work?

Oh, never mind. Brain cramp.

Are the comments from the poster supposed to be longer than the article snippet?

Sure, as long as Rich Rifkin has a say.

Is a lineup with Murphy at 2nd and Tatis in left good enough?

Such a line-up would very likely resemble Charlie Brown's team defensively at those two positions...

Hey, Linus could pick it at 2B, even while dragging that stupid blanket.

Hey, Linus could pick it at 2B, even while dragging that stupid blanket.
I don't ever remember hearing about whether he and that SS were good on the DP or not.

Could the Mets live with that? I suppose.

If it is the difference between one and two top relievers, or between two and three, or the difference between Oliver Perez and Odalis Perez, I'll take this, particularly since I don't see a lot of great LF or 2B on the free agent market.

Is a platoon of F-Mart and Tatis an option?

Of all the options available to the Mets for 2009 at all the positions they have to mull over (LF, 2B, SP, RP), the single one of them I am most strongly opposed to is any use of Fernando Martinez in the major leagues. And to do it in a platoon role would be the absolute worst variation of that option.

He's just not ready. There's no basis to believe he is, physically or performance-wise. He hasn't been able to stand up to a minor league playing schedule, and play a full season in AA the last two years. And when he has played, he hasn't done anything whatsoever that would lead anyone but a fanboy to think he's capable (yet) of doing anything but failing miserably at the major league level. Someday, yes. Not now.

To bring him up now, to fail, would be organizational malpractice. To bring him up to platoon (and thus sitting on the bench a lot of the time) would just make it worse. He needs to be in the minors, getting stronger as he matures, proving he can play everyday and doing so if he is capable of it. And in the process getting better with experience.

There is almost nothing the Mets could do, and pretty much nothing they would even consider (I'm assuming Mota, Redux, is not on the radar screen), that would be a bigger blunder than rushing F-Mart. It'd hurt them, it'd hurt him, and it'd hurt my head.

I don't ever remember hearing about whether he and that SS were good on the DP or not.

They were; I definitely remember Snoopy spitting the ball to Linus, who turned the double play. Then Lucy complained that the ball had dog drool on it. Hilarity ensued.

In general, I don't think you can shift the blame to the fielders behind Brown, when his LD% was so high.

As for Tatis -- who I guess is Jose Peterson, the guy who shows up out of nowhere and turns out to be better than most of the guys on the team? -- obviously you bring him back for $1M. And almost as obviously, you don't really want him to start, but he is perfect as a guy who plays against lefties and is a plausible starter if someone gets hurt. If Murphy is at 2B, which he should be if he is the least bit acceptable there defensively, that then means we need to come up with a LF. And I agree, not F-Mart or Evans.

I would like Dunn or Burrell in LF next year, and then moving to 1B in '10. I wouldn't object to Manny if the price were right, but there's no reason at all to think that it would be. If not one of those three, then you might as well go budget. Maybe someone who can hit 2nd, if they're not gonna use Beltran there as I would prefer. You could probably get someone like that (i.e., a non-power-hitting corner OF) without too much of a sweat.

But I'd be a lot happier with a real left fielder and with Tatis as the fourth outfielder and a real force off the bench as the primary pinch hitter.

Same here.

Tatis is a fine insurance policy, but the Mets are going to be hurting if Plan A involves regularly starting him in LF--even in a platoon.

It's been suggested before, but if the Mets don't want to spend the money for Ramirez/Dunn/Burrell, what about trading for Randy Winn? Decent defender at a corner with solid OBP and good baserunning. He's signed for $8.25M for 2009 with a limited NTC (he can block 10 teams, not sure if that includes the Mets). He won't add a big bat to the offense obviously, but the defense will be strong (also serviceable in RF, so he doubles as Church-insurance). He could also fill-in at CF in a pinch. It seems to me like he's a cost-effective one-year solution until Martinez is ready and the Giants should be willing to let him go pretty cheaply considering that they have Schierholtz ready to take over RF.

Could I interest you in a Kosuke Fukudome?

There is almost nothing the Mets could do, and pretty much nothing they would even consider (I'm assuming Mota, Redux, is not on the radar screen), that would be a bigger blunder than rushing F-Mart. It'd hurt them, it'd hurt him, and it'd hurt my head.

Sam and I are back to agreeing essentially all the time.

It's been suggested before, but if the Mets don't want to spend the money for Ramirez/Dunn/Burrell, what about trading for Randy Winn?

The issue, as always- if taking on 8.25 million means foregoing a top bullpen arm, pass.

Ugh, I really don't like Dunn or Burrell. They're craptastic fielders, and not in Manny's class as hitters. Burrell is no better than Ibáñez, and Dunn is probably half a win better, maybe a little more. If Milton Bradley's physically capable I'd much prefer him (and that's projecting him at .360/.470, not at his godly 2008 rate).

The issue, as always- if taking on 8.25 million means foregoing a top bullpen arm, pass.

I'm still having trouble understanding a world where people would rather go after a 75 IP a year reliever than an everyday starting position player. I guess if your bullpen is sucky enough, it starts to make sense.

Could I interest you in a Kosuke Fukudome?

Do the Cubs still collect 2b? The Mets could offer Castillo in exchange.

I'd put money on Tatis stinking next year, but hey, it's a million and it's the Mets - they have the money. Why not try and catch lightning in a bottle twice?

On the second base side of it, Murphy's bat would be such a plus that I think the answer is yes.

Sam, what do you think Murphy will hit next year?

I think Sam projects Murphy as an .850 OPS hitter, which I think wildly optimistic. I don't think he's got the home run power for that. Sam is president of the Murphy fan club.

Tatis has a .281/.361/.479 batting line since 2006 in 1300 AB between AAA and the majors. I think he's a decent bet for an OPS around .750-.800 if used properly and really at that price, he's worth the roll of the dice.

I think Sam projects Murphy as an .850 OPS hitter, which I think wildly optimistic. I don't think he's got the home run power for that. Sam is president of the Murphy fan club.

I've said that playing 2B would take a bite out of that offensive projection -- it takes a toll. Call it .800 if he plays the middle IF.

But yes, I'm extremely high on Murphy's bat. His approach is so mature, his pitch recognition so advanced, and his ability to take advantage of favorable counts is so outstanding that I am entirely bullish on Murphy. I have literally never seen a left-handed hitter with that approach, and with the amount of power he does have (which granted isn't exactly Ryan Howard, but it's not Luis Castillo, either), fail. Indeed, I've never seen it not result in outstanding production. A guy like that who can, depending on the situation, both go the other way and pull the ball effectively . . . succeeds. The plusses are too many: a hitter like that, with the platoon advantage most of the time, who doesn't get himself out and who goes where the pitches and count dictate, doesn't give pitchers any real edge. Only the very, very best pitchers will get him out on a consistent basis, and there just aren't enough of them in the game to prevent Murphy from being outstanding. It is a total recipe for success.

Hence: Murphy will be a star. If they can find a position at which he can simply hold his own, he'll be a star. He's got an offensive future better than any player the Mets have developed since David Wright. Better than Milledge; certainly better than Gomez. Not as good as Wright, but better than anyone since.

On the second base side of it, Murphy's bat would be such a plus that I think the answer is yes.

I think this is a correct assessment. We should have done it last September.

They were; I definitely remember Snoopy spitting the ball to Linus, who turned the double play. Then Lucy complained that the ball had dog drool on it. Hilarity ensued.

my memory of the snoopy/linus keystone combination was a much more nuanced humor only schulz could pull off. linus complimented snoopy on his play and said they made a pretty good team and would he like to go out later with the other guys on the team, and snoopy blows him off, asserting that off the field he went his own way.

the drool on the ball gag i remember was lucy on the mound, getting the ball loaded up by snoopy licking it and then throwing a sloppy spitter past a desperately overmatched charlie brown.

As for Tatis -- who I guess is Jose Peterson, the guy who shows up out of nowhere and turns out to be better than most of the guys on the team? -- obviously you bring him back for $1M. And almost as obviously, you don't really want him to start, but he is perfect as a guy who plays against lefties and is a plausible starter if someone gets hurt. If Murphy is at 2B, which he should be if he is the least bit acceptable there defensively, that then means we need to come up with a LF. And I agree, not F-Mart or Evans.

Tatis is a great signing if he's expected to be a PH/spot-starter. He is a pretty good player as a 4th/5th OF, and he brings a totally different skillset to the table from Endy Chavez.

I agree about not F-Mart (not ready) and not Evans (not good). LF scares the hell out of me. There's a lot of potential to make a pretty awful decision and be carrying a horrible contract. I think I'd prefer going with pitching over signing Burrell, Dunn, or Ramirez unless they are taking fewer years than we expect.

I wouldn't be afraid to start Fernando in LF - depending on how he looks in spring training.

There's no way to bring in Dunn/Burrell without a long term commitment, which I would pass on.

Otherwise, Tatis or Evans would be a decent fill-in option at LF for the time being.

But I'd be a lot happier with a real left fielder and with Tatis as the fourth outfielder and a real force off the bench as the primary pinch hitter. He'd be the best guy the Mets have had in that role in a long time.


In NYC, the only way a $1.7 Million dollar player should be anything but a 4th outfielder, is if he is a young and rising star who has not become expensive yet. The Mets can certainly afford a real left fielder.

Are there any available?

Guys, we play in New York. We can afford both a left fielder and a pitcher! Okay, not if the pitcher is Sabathia (and I'll sure take that tradeoff), but if it's Derek Lowe or something?? Hell yeah, we can address both areas. I also think "baseball people" generally hate both of Dunn/Burrell, and I expect them to be good values, although of course we'll see. (As for the bad defense, well, it's only for a year since I move them to 1B after that, and you lift them with a late lead in a game, natch.)

Winn isn't a bad idea either. He's actually turned out to be better than I thought, and I really don't think a one-year, $8M contract needs to affect much of anything at all. Obviously not as exciting as either a big FA signing or trading for a guy who could fill the position for 10 years, but it could work.

my memory of the snoopy/linus keystone combination was a much more nuanced humor only schulz could pull off.

I'm sure you're right; I just couldn't really remember what happened after the double play. I just looked now... the only strip I could find involving the double play was this (as you allude to, no direct "punch line"). I did find one where, after getting the ball back from Snoopy, Charlie says "I know a spit-ball is illegal, but I wonder about a drool-ball?" I didn't see anyone actually throwing a drool ball.

Guys, we play in New York. We can afford both a left fielder and a pitcher! Okay, not if the pitcher is Sabathia (and I'll sure take that tradeoff), but if it's Derek Lowe or something?? Hell yeah, we can address both areas.

Well, if it was just two areas, sure. But there's that little matter of adding at least two quality relief pitchers, too. $12M or so for Brian Fuentes take a pretty big bite out of the payroll, after all, and if another solid, experienced guy is added via trade, that could mean (since a starting pitcher is a necessity, not an option) that a LFer is out of the question.

At least a pricey one. This is one of those situations where an appearance from Creative Omar -- the one who found John Maine, for instance -- would be awfully welcome. The LF equivalent, acquired from a GM who doesn't appreciate what he's giving up, would be a godsend about now.

Winn isn't a bad idea either. He's actually turned out to be better than I thought, and I really don't think a one-year, $8M contract needs to affect much of anything at all. Obviously not as exciting as either a big FA signing or trading for a guy who could fill the position for 10 years, but it could work.

Just checked out Winn's numbers at bbref, and they're pretty good. If he came cheaply, I'd rather have Winn than what it would take to sign Dunn/Burrell.

Also, anyone else hoping that we can pull a similar Tatis-type deal with Alou? With Alou and Tatis, the Mets should have the best hitting bench they've had in a while.

On the pitching front, Javier Vasquez may be available. I would love for the Mets to pursue him - but still add a front-line starter through FA (ie, CC).

If the Mets sign Fuentes, Juan Cruz and re-sign Oliver Perez, I'd be all set. Ideally, they add a LF, and if Murphy can't handle 2B full-time, they'll need someone there as well. And still, if they merely get those first three, I like their chances enormously. They'd have a rotation with Santana/Pelfrey/Maine/Perez, a bullpen with strong eighth and ninth inning components allowing their specialists to be specialists, and they'd have that 2008 offense.

Not saying they couldn't further improve- but these are the musts. If not Perez, someone who is as good a bet to be league average or better, with similar upside- which, as far as I can tell, is no one (save Sabathia, of course). Lowe's better bet to be a 120 ERA+ pitcher in 2009 is compromised for me by signing him to a long-term deal at his age, when you can have Oliver erez entering his age-27 season.

Lowe's better bet to be a 120 ERA+ pitcher in 2009 is compromised for me by signing him to a long-term deal at his age, when you can have Oliver Perez entering his age-27 season.

The length of any Lowe deal would, presumably, be a lot shorter than what it will take to re-up Perez. So you have to take that into account.

Then there is timing. If I know my super-agents and their tactics, he is going to hold Perez out until after Sabathia and Sheets and Burnett have left the building, and present him as the only guy left with high-quality upside to those teams who didn't hit the jackpot. Can the Mets afford to wait for Ollie and Boras to make a decision, and hope they are the choice? They could be left in a very, very bad bargaining position if they wait on Ollie. It may be that their only viable choice is to go for Lowe to avoid being held up later in the winter.

I can't believe I'm going to allow myself to get into this, but I just saw Rollins speaking at the stadium after the parade. He made a point to take the time during his speech to talk down the Mets and Johan Santana. The fans loved it. And somehow, Reyes is a problem.

#### the Phillies, #### Jimmy Rollins, and #### Philadelphia and their fans.

#### the Phillies, #### Jimmy Rollins, and #### Philadelphia and their fans.

I think you mean #### the World Series Champion Phillies, who yet again edged out the Mets for a playoff spot. And I say this as a Dodgers fan. Winning the title gives some leeway for badmouthing opponents, especially if the opponents' fans have a long history of badmouthing the victorious team.

It's all part of traditional sports ragging.

Winning the title gives some leeway for badmouthing opponents,

If they are so inclined, I suppose. Another way of putting it is to say that winning the title gives some leeway to reveal your true character as a jackass. If Jimmy Rollins is so inclined, more power to him. It might have been a heck of an opportunity to simply revel in the celebration with his teammates and fans, but that would have been the classy way to go. I guess that isn't Rollins's style.

Had the Mets won it all, and had Jose Reyes slammed the Phillies, just imagine the reaction. Immature. Classless. Creating hostility towards the Mets. Jimmy Rollins happens to be everything -- every bad thing -- the media thinks Jose Reyes is. Only worse.

And I'm sorry, no one could convince me that Reyes would take one damn second to give a crap about Jimmy Rollins or the Phillies after winning the WS. I suppose it's speculation, but can anyone, even those who hate Reyes, imagine him doing so?

They were better. They won the NL East, and the NL, and the Series. But Lordy, what a bunch of losers.

YAY! WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP! IN YOUR FACE, METS! OH, AND YOUR LITTLE ACE, TOO.

[/lame]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/santajo02.shtml

Also lame.

And if you think Rollins was shooting his mouth off...

(It was being shown live on the local stations, so that's a bit of a problem.)

I have literally never seen a left-handed hitter with that approach, and with the amount of power he does have (which granted isn't exactly Ryan Howard, but it's not Luis Castillo, either), fail.

How about Jeremy Reed? I remember thinking he was as sure a thing as there was in a minor league bat.

Just checked out Winn's numbers at bbref, and they're pretty good. If he came cheaply, I'd rather have Winn than what it would take to sign Dunn/Burrell.

And he plays pretty good D too. An OF of Winn, Beltran, Church, might be the best defensive OF in the majors.

I've been thinking the Mets are a good spot for CC. I say this, of course, without detailed knowledge of their payroll limits. He's said he doesn't want to come to NY, yes. But rumor has it he's getting pressure to take a "big" deal rather than a smaller one in a place he'd like to be. He has stated a preference for the NL. The Mets, perhaps, offer a nice compromise. A rotation of Sabathia/Santana/Pelfrey/Maine/Perez would have less need of a solid bullpen than without CC. Pick up someone like Wynn for the outfield and sign Alou to a Tatis like deal and you're in great shape. I'd sign every cheap arm I could find and put them all in AAA and go with the hot hand(s). I just don't have enough faith in any reliever to sign any reliever this side of Mo for 8 figures. Make the starting rotation as good as you can and put a good D behind them.

He made a point to take the time during his speech to talk down the Mets and Johan Santana.

I thought it was terrific. You just won the World Championship. And what do you want to talk about? The Mets. How's the inferiority complex, Jimmy?

Ah yes, I just caught the Cole Hamels thing. I'm sure it seems like sour grapes to have me think poorly of Rollins' concentrating on the Mets in his victory over the Rays and for Hamels to have no class over a loudspeaker to thousands of fans and for people to be ripping down signs and tipping over cars. Can't imagine why Philadelphia has its unjust reputation. MEDIA BIAS, I guess.

The funny thing about the Rollins quote is that it is the exact thing that people kept saying was wrong with the Mets--they made other teams hate them and want to beat them!