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Thursday, May 15, 2008

The Biz of Baseball: Brown: Is Part MLB’s “Discipline” showing Magowan the Door?

There’s the mantle where
We keep our team picture
and there’s the door…

While there is no confirmation, there are reports coming into the Business of Sports Network that Magowan is gently being pushed out of the Giants.

Even if that were not the case, Selig’s comments show a fine level of hypocrisy. After all, it was perfectly acceptable to publicly mention players and suspensions as part of the follow-up to the Mitchell Report. Now, there is quiet reference to “doing a lot of community service.”

So, we ask: Who is doing “community service?” And then, what is deemed as “community service?”

It was quietly run, and now one wonders if the highest ranking executive mentioned in the Mitchell Report is “doing community service” by leaving the Giants. Given the incredible level of work that Magowan did in getting the China Basin project (Pac Bell Park) done with such an exceedingly low-level of public subsidy, it would be a shame if it were true.

Now, if only someone were to answer those questions… Who is it being disciplined? And, what is the discipline doled out?

If the league thinks I’m putting 2+2 and getting 5, great. Let’s clear up the matter. But, if the league, through Commissioner Selig is willing to try and pass all this off without more than a whisper, one can’t help but see the connection.

Repoz Posted: May 15, 2008 at 03:55 PM | 27 comment(s)
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Shredder Posted: May 15, 2008 at 04:21 PM (#2782446)
Given the incredible level of work that Magowan did in getting the China Basin project (Pac Bell Park) done with such an exceedingly low-level of public subsidy, it would be a shame if it were true.
That's the real reason he's being forced out. Bad precedent, man. It just makes everyone else look bad when a rogue owner goes out and builds a stadium without soaking the public for every last dime. Gotta make an example of those guys. The "discipline" crap is just a means to an end.
   2. Halofan Posted: May 15, 2008 at 04:22 PM (#2782448)
Double Secret Probation only exists in the movies.
   3. SoSH U at work Posted: May 15, 2008 at 04:30 PM (#2782480)
That's the real reason he's being forced out. Bad precedent, man. It just makes everyone else look bad when a rogue owner goes out and builds a stadium without soaking the public for every last dime. Gotta make an example of those guys. The "discipline" crap is just a means to an end.


That's what I figured the story was referring to, once I figured out what the hell the headline was supposed to mean.
   4. Shooty misses Bill King Posted: May 15, 2008 at 04:33 PM (#2782485)
That's the real reason he's being forced out. Bad precedent, man. It just makes everyone else look bad when a rogue owner goes out and builds a stadium without soaking the public for every last dime. Gotta make an example of those guys. The "discipline" crap is just a means to an end.

You'd think, but it hasn't stopped other cities from bending themselves over.
   5. bfan Posted: May 15, 2008 at 04:39 PM (#2782511)
So the head of a regime where salary has not been a problem that over a 3 and 1/4 season period has a performance of .463; .472; .438; and .415, where 76 wins is your peak (with no end in sight, if you listen to the people here), just cannot be being forced out for performance and skill related issues?
   6. Robert Machemer Posted: May 15, 2008 at 04:57 PM (#2782546)
Midnight. One more night without sleeping.
Watching, till the morning comes creeping.
Green door, what's that secret you're keeping?
   7. Johnny Clash Posted: May 15, 2008 at 05:03 PM (#2782552)
You'd think, but it hasn't stopped other cities from bending themselves over.

Not Oakland! We're waving bye-bye to the A's. Of course, Oakland is still bent over and being ###### by Al Davis, so unless we're talking double-reverse anal, there's just no room.
“I have stated, and it’s sort of been misunderstood, anybody who has been disciplined is doing a lot of community service,” Selig said. “And I think most people involved believe that was their discipline. But there’s nothing new.”
Say what?
   8. Boots Day Posted: May 15, 2008 at 05:05 PM (#2782554)
If Pac Bell Park was the reason Magowan was being forced out, wouldn't that have happened six or eight years ago?
   9. Alex Gordon's #1 Fan Posted: May 15, 2008 at 05:11 PM (#2782556)
If Pac Bell Park was the reason Magowan was being forced out, wouldn't that have happened six or eight years ago?

That was my first thought. That was a loooong time ago. Seems silly to reprimand him now, especially as others have pointed out, it didn't exactly start a trend of privately funded stadiums.
   10. The Jerry Royster Experience Posted: May 15, 2008 at 05:14 PM (#2782560)
Not Oakland! We're waving bye-bye to the A's.

And Fremont is waving hello!

The A's did everything the opposite of the Giants - they put getting a publicly-financed stadium ahead of everything else - financial viability, revenue streams, and even stadium accessibility.
   11. SantoFan Posted: May 15, 2008 at 05:35 PM (#2782577)
Double secret, huh... does this mean he's going to have to go hideout in some NBA team's lower management ranks for a year?
   12. Johnny Clash Posted: May 15, 2008 at 05:46 PM (#2782584)
The A's did everything the opposite of the Giants - they put getting a publicly-financed stadium ahead of everything else - financial viability, revenue streams, and even stadium accessibility.

It's almost enough to make one wonder if the A's ownership has the fans' and general public's interests at heart.
   13. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 15, 2008 at 06:05 PM (#2782599)
"...unless we're talking double-reverse anal, there's just no room."

Personally, I prefer the play where the running back swings around and takes the dick out of the quarterback's hands when he drops back to pass.
   14. BeanoCook Posted: May 15, 2008 at 06:45 PM (#2782631)
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Maury Brown, now wearing a tin-foil hat.
   15. Steve Treder Posted: May 15, 2008 at 06:51 PM (#2782636)
It's almost enough to make one wonder if the A's ownership has the fans' and general public's interests at heart.

No wayyy!!!
   16. Maury Brown Posted: May 15, 2008 at 07:54 PM (#2782670)
Beano gets the Primey.

Slight problem... there are those confirming... Damage control.
   17. Craig Calcaterra Posted: May 15, 2008 at 08:50 PM (#2782702)
Beano -- Don't bet on it. I mean, Maury's crazy and all (you'd agree, right Maury?), but something tells me that he's right here.
   18. John Peterson Posted: May 16, 2008 at 03:30 PM (#2783432)
Thanks for the link, Craig. Too bad people hate Brian Sebean way more than Ed Wade.
   19. Joey B. Posted: May 16, 2008 at 04:13 PM (#2783470)
I think this is a case where the simple explanation is the best one, and that is simply that he's getting out while the getting's still good.

Team attendance, while still very good, looks to be on the decline, they're now saddled for years with what looks to be one of the worst contracts in the history of the game, and the team doesn't seem to have much hope of being winners for a while.

In other words, the future in China Basin looks bleak, and Magowan no doubt knows this just as much as all the rest of us.
   20. bumpis hound Posted: May 16, 2008 at 07:01 PM (#2783666)
In other words, the future in China Basin looks bleak, and Magowan no doubt knows this just as much as all the rest of us.

You realize the Giants have a large interest in the Comcast Bay Area network, right? And you realize they have a pretty solid pitching staff, 1-12 (excl. Zito, to a degree; he may round into serviceable form); 2 ace-level young cost controlled pitchers, a solid and developing bullpen, including a stud closer; a few good young position players (Lewis, Bowker, Fransen, hopefully Velez); and a favorable slot in the upcoming draft. Not to mention the previous 2 drafts that have put the farm system on the right track. And the Zito contract, while awful, isn't an albatross; the Giants are now one of the top 4 or 5 revenue generating teams in all baseball, they're not the Pirates or Nationals.

As a seasonticket holder who goes to a ton of games, I'm actually quite pleased with the way the Giants have shaped up this year. And who knows, if they have a good draft & pick up a decent FA or two, they could be in great shape next year. Far better off than the Mets, that's for sure. Talk about a franchise with a clouded future; man, I'm glad I'm not stuck with that dog of a team.
   21. The Jerry Royster Experience Posted: May 16, 2008 at 07:11 PM (#2783677)
a few good young position players (Lewis, Bowker, Fransen, hopefully Velez)

You have a pretty loose definition of the word "good". Also "young".
   22. bumpis hound Posted: May 16, 2008 at 07:37 PM (#2783700)
You have a pretty loose definition of the word "good". Also "young".

Lewis: age 27, 286/355/464
Bowker: age 24, 281/305/472

How are these bad?

Velez, well we'll see. He's fast & exciting, but may not stick. But, there's upside, more than anybody gave them going into the year.
   23. Steve Treder Posted: May 16, 2008 at 08:10 PM (#2783749)
Lewis: age 27, 286/355/464
Bowker: age 24, 281/305/472

How are these bad?


Those numbers are't bad. But:

1. Lewis's yield a 114 OPS+, OK but not outstanding for a left fielder. And Bowker's yield an OPS+ of 101, not very good for a first baseman/corner outfielder.

2. The very limited ML track record of both players suggests that it's far from a sure thing that either or both will be able to sustain those rates of production. We're talking about 42 2008 games for Lewis, and 27 for Bowker, small sample sizes.

3. These cases, so-so as they are, represent the pinnacle of achievement by young SF position players in 2008. From this modest peak, in every other direction we look down.

4. Velez? Are you kidding me?

Yes, it's true the Giants have a very nice core of young pitching. But that is it, absolutely it. The position player talent developed under Sabean's tenure remains a bad joke, and while it will be terrific if the past couple of drafts end up yielding better results, we're a very long way from that being anything more than an "if."

Certainly there are worse organizations in MLB. But if that's the way we characterize a franchise sitting on a license to print money, it's awfully faint praise.
   24. bumpis hound Posted: May 16, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2783772)
I'm of the opinion that Lewis and Bowker have more upside than you're giving them, but it's just a hunch, nothing to go to war over. They've been fun to watch. Neither is a JR Philips or Damon Minor, as far as I can tell. And I think you're underrating Lewis' defense. But honestly, for a team characterized as having literally zero help from the minors, I'd think that their respective performances are a pleasant surprise.

I'd like to think Velez has some value, but that hope is fading. I'd like to see a full year of Frandsen. Not saying any of these guys are gonna be All Stars, necessarily; rather, useful pieces to build around.

I agree re: player development, but apparently those concerns apparently have been addressed. If this is the cratered-out depths of a rebuilding movement, then it's not nearly as bad as most would've had it.

And honestly, I'm not saying anything like the G's are gonna win the Division or anything, just that they're far better off than anyone here gave them credit for.
   25. Steve Treder Posted: May 16, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2783780)
And honestly, I'm not saying anything like the G's are gonna win the Division or anything, just that they're far better off than anyone here gave them credit for.

They're 17-25. That's a pace to go about 66-96.

My preseason prediction for them on THT had them losing about 95 games. I don't know about others, but so far they're doing just about exactly as I expected. It's true that they haven't enacted their worst-case scenario at this point, but I don't see them as having surpassed any realistic expectations, either.
   26. bumpis hound Posted: May 16, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#2783791)
I don't see them as having surpassed any realistic expectations, either.

Really? They were branded as historic failures on every count before the season started. That hasn't been the case at all. In fact, they've been competitive against all comers, except Pittsburgh(which is really really annoying). By no means are they good offensively, but they're hardly the era-defining trainwreck seemingly everbody was so eager to brand them. So I'd have to say they've surpassed a fair number of expectations already. And, having gone to 60% of their home games already, they've managed to be way more interesting than I'd given them credit for, with signs that future improvement might not be that far off.
   27. Steve Treder Posted: May 17, 2008 at 12:28 AM (#2783919)
They were branded as historic failures on every count before the season started.

Uh-huh. I guess I must have missed all those prognostications. The ones I'm familiar with guessed that they'd probably feature really bad hitting (which they have) and so-so pitching (which they have), adding up to a bad-team-but-not-an-era-defining-trainwreck (which they've been).

The trainwreck scenario, of course, is what would likely take place if serious injuries were to befall Lincecum and/or Cain and/or some of the other young pitchers, which isn't probable but is hardly out of the question, either. But with the core of the young pitching intact, as it's been, there's been nothing in the least surprising about their overall performance.
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