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Tuesday, July 01, 2008

The Joe Sox Conspiracy (Are Joe Morgan’s Chats Rigged?)

We know the following:

1. ESPN does, in fact, employ young people, some of whom probably read sites like FJM and Deadspin and the like.

2. Joe Morgan probably does not do his own online chats.

3. JoeChats are only fun when Joe is stupid.

4. Joe, or Fremp, momentarily got smarter.

5. Ken Tremendous basically threatened to quit doing JoeChats.

6.Immediately after this threat, Joe became extremely stupid and completely insane.

7. JoeBaiting is so obvious at this point that only the worlds dumbest person would not notice it.

Conclusion: There is only one obvious conclusion. Bill Fremp, the ESPN employee charged with writing JoeChats, ostensibly representing what Joe Morgan would think and say, is actually a reader of FireJoeMorgan, and is writing the JoeChat specifically for comment by Ken Tremendous. I think Fremp was so horrified at the Prospect of FJM ceasing to comment on JoeChats that he decided to go all out with his Joe Morgan-inspired craziness. After all, if you were charged with writing JoeChats, which contain no insight and are largely pointless on their own, and you learned of the existence of FJM, which suddenly brings meaning to your work, and turns it into a sort of postmodern work of art, you would also probably fight to keep FJM interested in what is an otherwise dull activity.

battlekow Posted: July 01, 2008 at 10:06 AM | 39 comment(s)
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1. Crashburn Alley Posted: July 01, 2008 at 12:27 PM (#2838899)

Let's get the tinfoil hats...

2. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: July 01, 2008 at 12:42 PM (#2838920)

There's a better rundown on firejoemorgan. Whoever transcribes for Joe must have been drunk for this chat.

3. ian Posted: July 01, 2008 at 12:50 PM (#2838931)

That's a very funny FJM in #2.

4. ekogan Posted: July 01, 2008 at 12:52 PM (#2838933)

I refuse to believe that any sane intern could come up with the twisted non sequiturs that comprise JoeChat answers.
I'll stick with the simple hypothesis - Joe Morgan is very very stupid.

5. Justin Zeth Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:05 PM (#2838946)

I'm convinced this fellow is correct, at least in the basics -- the ESPN intern that reads the questions to Joe and then types out Joe's answers is a FJM reader and is messing with us. The gratuitous typos, I'm convinced, are intentional.

Anyway, the handwriting's on the wall despite Fremp's efforts; FJM is just about out of steam. There's hardly but one serious post a week anymore.

6. Craig Calcaterra Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:05 PM (#2838947)

Joe Morgan is very very stupid.

Except he's not, and that's probably what bugs me most about FJM and the attendant Morgan-bashing it has spawned.

Given the strength with which he holds on to certain opinions, Morgan is perhaps the most stubborn person on the planet, and he is often willfully ignorant, but the man is not stupid. The Initial FJM observation -- that Joe, on some basic level, doesn't get it -- still stands. The notion that he is some kind of idiot, however, is mean-spirited and, frankly, tired. It doesn't take a lot of wit to point out typos and bad grammar. I have chuckled at FJM on occasion, but several years on now I fail to see the value in continuing to beat this obviously dead horse.

7. Dr Love Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:14 PM (#2838954)

Morgan's not stupid, he's just stubborn and lazy. He's so set in his ways and he's pretty much admitted that the only games he watches are the ones he works. And because of that he makes for a terrible host for a weekly chat.

8. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:15 PM (#2838957)

He also has no sense of humor. None.

9. Justin Zeth Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:20 PM (#2838962)

Truth be told, Craig, I've never gotten much out of the JoeChats... Joe Morgan is what he is. I long loved the site because of the whole scope of what they did--there were many times they dismantled other Raccoon Lodge blowhards' articles in ways that were both funny and had a point. I think (hope?) their decline has as much to do with a general decline in stupidity in sports journalism as with the FJM authors' lack of time.

10. Johnny Clash Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:20 PM (#2838963)

I for one enjoy Ken Tremendously. I understand why he turns off some readers with his consistent, relentless ridicule of Joe Morgan, but hey, that's his thing. Morgan deserves it, not as a person, but for the consistently absurd things he says from his perch as preeminent baseball expert. I think the ambiguity now, with respect to who is actually participating in the JoeChats, is awesome. I ~~think~~ agree with Justin Zeth dog that the person typing up "Joe's" responses is at least in on the joke, i.e. reads FJM, and is baiting Ken Tremendous ("KenBaiting").

11. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:27 PM (#2838969)

If it wasn't for FJM, no one would read Joe's chats. They're useless. I agree that he isn't stupid and don't mind him as a broadcaster. But his chats really are useless. My favorite thing about Joe is that he's "authored" a book about baseball but is weirdly proud that he's never read one himself. My second favorite thing about him is that he finished his career in Oakland as one of the many second baseman who came to Oakland for their Viking burial until Mark Ellis finally showed up.

12. Justin Zeth Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:31 PM (#2838971)

By the way, the powers that be at ESPN must really be asleep at the switch for this to be continuing to go on.

Shooty: I've noticed that too. The past month or two, the questions that are responded to in the JoeChats are almost exclusively JoeBaiters. This can mean one of two things:

1. "Bill Fremp" is the one picking the questions, and he's intentionally selecting JoeBaits; or
2. The majority of questions being submitted at this point are coming from JoeBaiters.

I lean toward option 1.

13. Randy Jones Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:39 PM (#2838982)

My second favorite thing about him is that he finished his career in Oakland as one of the many second baseman who came to Oakland for their Viking burial until Mark Ellis finally showed up.

Not a fan of the Mike Gallego experience?

14. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:42 PM (#2838985)

Not a fan of the Mike Gallego experience?

Not an un-fan, let's just say.

15. Cowboy Popup Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:44 PM (#2838986)

16. RB in NYC (Now with Christmas Spirit!) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:49 PM (#2838991)

Yeah Randy Velarde!

Poor Randy. Left the Yankees after '95, comes back after 2000. That's a lousy break.

17. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 01, 2008 at 01:53 PM (#2838997)

Yeah Randy Velarde!

Don't forget the Brent Gates years or the Scott Spiezio years or the Glen Hubbard years or the year of Joe Morgan or the year Tony Bernazard split time with Tony Phillips or the year of Frank Menechino or the Donnie Hill experience or the flirtation with Rafael Bournigal and Tony Batista. A's fans have many, many reasons to love Mark Ellis.

Crap, forgot the Willie Randolph year, too! And don't forget Shooty Babbit in '81 and a Davey Lopes cameo not long after that!

18. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 02:01 PM (#2839008)

If Ken Tremendous doesn't like spelling errors in a chat, he probably would have a stroke if he read In His Own Write, which after all got by an editor.

19. Cowboy Popup Posted: July 01, 2008 at 02:01 PM (#2839009)

And don't forget Shooty Babbit in '81

Your namesake?

20. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 01, 2008 at 02:04 PM (#2839013)

And don't forget Shooty Babbit in '81

Your namesake?

The one and only!

21. Johnny Clash Posted: July 01, 2008 at 03:52 PM (#2839136)

What happened to Shooty Babitt, anyways? He finished 5th in ROY voting, then never played again.

22. jwb Posted: July 01, 2008 at 03:58 PM (#2839144)

"If I ever put him in a game again, just Shooty me!" - Billy Martin

Babitt is, like someone else who has come up in conversation today, a scout for the Diamondbacks.

23. Jose Can Jussi Jokinen (Justin T) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 04:08 PM (#2839160)

Shooty also does some media stuff. A's pregames occasionally (or maybe more than occasionally, I only occasionally see A's pregames), and I've heard him do some radio stuff here in the Bay Area. He brings a good perspective; a scout's perspective and doesn't just stick to cliches. IOW, he has no future in the business.

24. The Politics of Torre: How the HOF Really Works Posted: July 01, 2008 at 04:11 PM (#2839161)

Fire John Lennon.

25. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 01, 2008 at 04:11 PM (#2839162)

IOW, he has no future in the business.

Just like me! Why did his playing career stop? Plenty of no hit guys like him had longish careers in the 80's. He got a little ROY love while playing for a division winner. Seems like he should have been able to hang on as a utility guy for a bit, no?

26. jwb Posted: July 01, 2008 at 04:13 PM (#2839164)

Nope. Minor leagues until 1984. He wound up in the Montreal organization, but couldn't punch through their equally impressive stable of second base talent: Rodney Scott, Brian Little, Doug Flynn, Tim Raines (really), Manny Trillo, Chris Speier, Derrel Thomas, Mike Ramsey, Tom Lawless, Vance Law, U.L. Washington, Al Newman, Fred Manrique. . .

27. Repoz Posted: July 01, 2008 at 05:58 PM (#2839257)

Fire Stevie Ridzik.

28. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: July 02, 2008 at 08:57 AM (#2840113)

Seems like he should have been able to hang on as a utility guy for a bit, no?

The embarrassment of having a guy named "Shooty" on the team apparently overcame his grittiness factor.

29. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:07 AM (#2840119)

If it weren't for me, we'd never talk about Shooty Babbitt around here. I feel like I've accomplished something.

30. The Politics of Torre: How the HOF Really Works Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:09 AM (#2840120)

I don't think that Shooty was gritty. A natural athlete, perhaps; but not gritty.

31. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:12 AM (#2840122)

I don't think that Shooty was gritty. A natural athlete, perhaps; but not gritty.

I honestly don't remember. Those 1980 and 81 A's teams were the first teams I really followed so all the players are larger than life to me. Shooty Babbitt had the extra boost of also being from my hometown, so he loomed even larger.

32. Hal Chase Headley Lamarr Hoyt Wilhelm (ACE1242) Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:24 AM (#2840136)

Shooty Babbitt

Okay, I give up. Whose spelling checker is broken?

-- the eponymous poster
-- Sean Forman
-- Sinclair Lewis
-- all of the above, and then some

33. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:26 AM (#2840137)

Okay, I give up. Whose spelling checker is broken?

I think I spell it different every time. It's all part of the Shooty Babitt legend.

34. JJ1986 Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:36 AM (#2840142)

I don't think picking on individual answers of Joe's really is good for anything. So he overuses a few phrases and can't spell, it's not really a forum for getting real answers anyway. What I have learned from reading JoeChats though is that Morgan simply doesn't watch many baseball games. There are about four or five teams that he feels comfortable speaking about and the rest he feels that he hasn't seen play enough. I understand if players think baseball is a job and don't want to watch it, but if an announcer doesn't enjoy watching baseball, maybe he's in the wrong line of work.

35. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:41 AM (#2840144)

I think the funniest thing about this whole thing is now we all "know" the invented person that is "Bill Fremp"

I actually remember hearing the name "Bill Fremp" in a conversation with someone the other day, like he's a real human being. Kinda like Randall Stephens (from Shawshank Redemption)---he doesn't exist, except on JoeChats.

I was actually surprised that Bill Fremp doesn't have his own wikipedia page.

36. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:45 AM (#2840151)

FWIW, this is my alltime favorite comment from FJM:

Frank (NY): It seems like Wang is a very underratted pitcher. If you look over the last three years, very few pitchers in baseball match him in terms of numbers. Do you think he is not talked about as one of the greatest pitchers in the game because of the low strikeout ratio?

Joe Morgan: I agree that in this day in age it is about HRs and Ks. But I think we will see more strikeouts with Wang since he has added a slidder to his pitches. The slidder and change are going to help him a lot and driver up his strikeout numbers, and that is what we saw on Sunday.

Frank: What do you think of Wang?
Joe Morgan: He has a good slidder. That can't be right. Is that how you spell "slidder?" I guess is it. Slidder. Slidder. That is a weird word, man -- look at it. Slidder. You know what lidders do for pitchers? They driver up their striker-outer number. (Giggles) Man, am I drunk.

I may have to start using "slidder" in my reports as an ode to FJM.

EDIT: Thought that this one (from the same chat) was really funny too.

Shannon (Martinsburg WV): Joe: Say Girardi doesn't accept the O's job. Who's next in line? Have you ever considered managing?

Joe Morgan: Well if he does not take the job, I have no idea who else they have in mind. I am not sure that is a great situation. And yes, I have thought about it and then I come to my senses. There are good jobs out there for managers, but I am not so sure about the Oriels job at this point.

Shannon: If Joe Girardi doesn't accept the Orioles' coaching job, who will? Have you ever considered managing, Joe?
Joe Morgan: No idea. Me me me me thoughts about me me me how do you spell "Orioles" that doesn't look right who cares me me me.

37. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's! Posted: July 02, 2008 at 09:55 AM (#2840158)

Forget Joe Morgan, Carlos, just tell me Shooty Babitt is a great guy!

38. jwb Posted: July 02, 2008 at 11:42 AM (#2840297)

Kinda like Randall Stephens (from Shawshank Redemption)

I was thinking more along the line of Rollo Tomasi from LA Confidential - He who gets away with it.

If Shooty Babitt is doing radio in the Bay Area (he's from there, so a reasonable option to semi-retire to), his and CBW's paths might not have crossed in Spring Training or at whatever other time an organization's scouts get together. My Arizona scouting info may well be outdated. Carlos said he was throwing in the high 80s and low 90s four months ago, so I'm assuming that was at Spring Training.

39. ChadBradfordWannabe Posted: July 02, 2008 at 11:51 AM (#2840303)

I may have met him in Spring Training, briefly.

At the time (February), I wasn't yet in Tucson. I was still in Atlanta doing some lessons here and there and still in a bit of "throwing shape" b/c of the lessons and I would, every now and then, air it out. I may have brain farted on the question in the interview...the effects of the 10 hour drive throwing off my perception of what month we were in.....hehe. It was November to January when I was still heavy into doing lessons, so I had more time to mess around with my own mechanics where I was hitting 90 w/ fair regularity.

That said, I did take this one clip dated February 12th:

Febtober link

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The Joe Sox Conspiracy (Are Joe Morgan’s Chats Rigged?)

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