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Thursday, July 02, 2009

The Niagara Falls Dugout

RIP Ed Delahanty.

Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 10:55 AM | 71 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
  Related News: General, Dugout

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   1. Not The Real Fausto Carmona (Dan Lee) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 11:49 AM (#3240092)
Who's the best player to die after drunkenly falling off a train bridge over an international border crossing?
   2. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:00 PM (#3240101)
Who's the best player to die after drunkenly falling off a train bridge over an international border crossing?
I know this one! Stan Musial!
   3. Baseball-Birthdays.com Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:14 PM (#3240110)
Chick Hafey and Peanuts Lowrey also get RIPs today...

so do Ernest Hemingway, Fred Gwynne, Betty Grable, James Stewart, and Mario Puzo.
   4. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:15 PM (#3240112)
Dan, that's the type of question that Win Shares were designed to answer. BTW, I'm finally reading that book in depth. A lot of it was deconstructing Pete Palmer's Fielding Runs. But I never got into those in the first place.
   5. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:24 PM (#3240115)
Dan, that's the type of question that Win Shares were designed to answer.
I can just see Bill James sitting around in Lawrence saying to himself "I assume Ed Delahanty is best player to die after drunkenly falling off a train bridge over an international border crossing but maybe not, I should design a system to work this out."
   6. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:28 PM (#3240122)
Actually, it seems more like a Chris Jaffe question. Or a me question. In my reading, I haven't come across too many baseball players who fell to their death.
   7. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:29 PM (#3240125)
Big Ed! I actually read the biography of him. It's fun to read articles from the 1890's complaining about lazy, overpaid ballplayers.
   8. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:31 PM (#3240128)
In my reading, I haven't come across too many baseball players who fell to their death.
Clearly you've never read Charles Hines' three-volume set, Ballplayers Who Fell to their Death (1876-1920), Ballplayers Who Fell to their Death (1921-1954) and Ballplayers Who Fell to their Death (1955-1993), which is just begging for an updated edition, BTW.
   9. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:32 PM (#3240130)
Big Ed! I actually read the biography of him. It's fun to read articles from the 1890's complaining about lazy, overpaid ballplayers.


Is that Baseball In The Emerald Age? I have it, but only got 70 pages into it so far.
   10. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:34 PM (#3240132)
Is that Baseball In The Emerald Age? I have it, but only got 70 pages into it so far.

That's the one. There's a lot of recapping of boxscores and news accounts of games which makes for sloggy reading at times. It gives a good feel for baseball of the era and for the beginnings of the American League.
   11. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:46 PM (#3240137)
I really should get back to it, but I get too ambitious when I go to the library and pick up more books than I can read.
   12. Worrierking Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:47 PM (#3240140)
When I went to Buffalo a few years ago, and visited Niagara Falls, I tried to figure out which bridge he was crossing went he went Louganis on us. I couldn't figure it out. Any help? Is it still standing?
   13. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:52 PM (#3240145)
I tried to figure out which bridge he was crossing went he went Louganis on us. I couldn't figure it out. Any help? Is it still standing?
I believe it was a train bridge, since he had been, if I'm remembering this story correctly, tossed off the train on account of his drunkeness and was pursuing it across the bridge. No idea if it's still standing.
   14. zack Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:57 PM (#3240151)
My girlfriend is from Lewiston, and I tried to figure out which bridge it was a couple months ago. As far as I could tell the bridge no longer exists, but bridge names change and I could be mistaken.

I was looking at balks yesterday, and I noticed that Dave Stewart has the season record with a whopping 16 in 1988, despite never balking more than 3 times in a season any other year. Did they change the rule that season or something?
   15. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 12:59 PM (#3240153)
Upon doing some research, it appears to be this bridge.
   16. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:00 PM (#3240155)
Did they change the rule that season or something?
Ooh, I'm full of answers today. Yes, they did
   17. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:00 PM (#3240156)
I was looking at balks yesterday, and I noticed that Dave Stewart has the season record with a whopping 16 in 1988, despite never balking more than 3 times in a season any other year. Did they change the rule that season or something?

Yes. It was a huge controversy, too. A lot of pitchers set career highs for balks that year.

edit: Coke to RB.
   18. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:04 PM (#3240161)
I think that makes us even Shooty, for one a couple of days back.
   19. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:07 PM (#3240163)
Heh, that Recondite Baseball post links to a couple of Murray Chass articles.
   20. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:13 PM (#3240170)
Tony Lazzeri died after falling down some stairs during an epileptic fit. I'd count that as "falling to his death." Plus, something fell on Bo Diaz's death.
   21. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:14 PM (#3240171)
On March 7, twelve balks were called in one game between the Rangers and Blue Jays. Rangers knuckleballer Charlie Hough had a rough day, being called for seven balks in the second inning, and nine in the game.

Holy Toledo!
   22. zack Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:21 PM (#3240177)
Upon doing some research, it appears to be this bridge.


I think you are right, I had ruled it out because that bridge is 15 miles upriver from the falls, and articles mention it being unknown if he died from drowning or from the fall, and I don't see how that would be in question if he fell, drunk, that far from the falls. This obituary also mentions a draw bridge, whereas that bridge is a swing bridge, but maybe that's just a language difference.
   23. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:23 PM (#3240179)
That Morgan-Dunn thread gets my nomination for thread of the month and it is only the 2nd.
   24. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:24 PM (#3240185)
Rangers knuckleballer Charlie Hough had a rough day, being called for seven balks in the second inning, and nine in the game.


Too bad that didn't happen during the regular season. Charlie Hough's record for balks in an inning could be one of those legendary unbreakable records.
   25. ess eff Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:36 PM (#3240210)
Add Norm Cash to the list of those who, in a way, fell to their deaths. Shorter fall, shallower water than Delahanty, though. And no train bridge or border.

As for #2 above, it could still happen.
   26. Not The Real Fausto Carmona (Dan Lee) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:40 PM (#3240219)
Tony Lazzeri died after falling down some stairs during an epileptic fit. I'd count that as "falling to his death." Plus, something fell on Bo Diaz's death.

Bobby Thigpen just barely missed adding his name to this list.

The greatest bowler to fall to his death is pretty obvious. Oddly enough, the New York Times says he had a tryout with Vancouver in the PCL in 1960 before turning to bowling.
   27. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:47 PM (#3240228)
If you are gonna mention Norm Cash, I guess I could bring up Arky Vaughan.
   28. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: July 02, 2009 at 01:49 PM (#3240234)
Anybody here read "July 2, 1903: The Mysterious Death of Big Ed Delahanty," by Mike Sowell?
Is the book any good?
   29. ess eff Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:14 PM (#3240266)
While I'll concede that Delahanty could well be the best player to drunkenly fall off a train bridge over an international border crossing, I think he's a clear second to Len Koenecke in the category of most bizarre death for a major leaguer tossed off public transportation for being drunk. Koenecke was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by a charter pilot while in flight after having been tossed off his team's commercial flight (before takeoff, of course).
   30. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:14 PM (#3240267)
I think that I tried to but was disappointed that it wasn't as good as The Pitch That Killed so I put it down.
   31. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:17 PM (#3240271)
Koenecke was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by a charter pilot while in flight after having been tossed off his team's commercial flight.
Really? Was he attempting to open a door and depressurize the plane or something?
   32. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:26 PM (#3240286)
Detectives believe alcohol was involved.
He tried to take over the controls of the plane.
   33. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:31 PM (#3240296)
I think that I tried to but was disappointed that it wasn't as good as The Pitch That Killed so I put it down.

Yeah, it's nowhere near as good as the The Pitch that Killed. If you haven't read them, I like Mark Ribowsky's biographies of Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige. They aren't sentimental at all which is hard to find when it comes to Negro League luminaries.
   34. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:33 PM (#3240299)
from mlbtraderumors.com:
jeff baker acquired by cubs.
aroldis chapman defected (this is a big deal).
july 2 signings starting to roll in (including uuu's kid).
luis ayala released.
   35. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:34 PM (#3240302)
Someone sent me the new Paige bio by, I believe, Larry Tye. I haven't picked it up yet. But it is a long weekend, so I may be able to get some reading in. Unfortunato, I'm starting to add some non-baseball stuff in the mix like econ and politics, so I'm not getting through as much stuff as I should.
   36. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:35 PM (#3240304)
also, jim leyritz arrested again, charged w/ battery. <thinks of joke involving being on the receiving end of battery, avoids it>
   37. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:38 PM (#3240306)
Tony Lazzeri died after falling down some stairs during an epileptic fit. I'd count that as "falling to his death." Plus, something fell on Bo Diaz's death.
I suppose Roberto Clemente also counts.
   38. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:40 PM (#3240311)
I thought that Leyritz was in jail.
   39. tribefan Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:42 PM (#3240314)
Koenecke was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by a charter pilot while in flight after having been tossed off his team's commercial flight.
That's one wild story. Link to the NY Times recap.
   40. bunyon Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:43 PM (#3240317)
In my reading, I haven't come across too many baseball players who fell to their death.

It really is incredible how many players manage to survive falling off a cliff.
   41. catomi01 Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:44 PM (#3240319)
he asked for more peanuts.
   42. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:47 PM (#3240325)
Remember Eagle Snacks? I miss those.
   43. ess eff Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:55 PM (#3240331)
Eagle Snacks were an Anheuser-Busch product until the mid-'90s when AB decided to concentrate just on its brewery products and divested itself of the secondary stuff like snacks and MLB teams.
   44. Bob Dernier Cri Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:56 PM (#3240335)
Koenecke was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by a charter pilot while in flight after having been tossed off his team's commercial flight

That would have been a great opening scene for a Six Feet Under episode.
   45. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:57 PM (#3240336)
That's one wild story. Link to the NY Times recap.
Jesus, that's bizarre. It appears the pilot was accquited on charges.
   46. gef the talking mongoose Posted: July 02, 2009 at 02:59 PM (#3240338)
If you haven't read them, I like Mark Ribowsky's biographies of Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige. They aren't sentimental at all which is hard to find when it comes to Negro League luminaries.


I haven't read it since the '90s, but isn't that the one that concudes Gibson basically hit a couple of hundred homers, tops, instead of the eleventy-billion he's commonly credited with? I'm consistently surprised to see continuing references on BTF & elsewhere to his HR totals as having made Babe Ruth look like Ray Oyler, with no acknowledgement whatsoever of Ribowsky's assertions. Has the book been discredited, or is it just lots more fun to pretend that it doesn't exist & the old legends are true?
   47. Not The Real Fausto Carmona (Dan Lee) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 03:01 PM (#3240341)
The moral of the Koenecke and Delahanty stories is clearly that MLB teams should keep their mentally unstable outfielders out of Southern Ontario.
   48. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: July 02, 2009 at 03:05 PM (#3240345)
I haven't read it since the '90s, but isn't that the one that concudes Gibson basically hit a couple of hundred homers, tops,

It's not as simple as that since the NL seasons were only a fraction as long as MLB seasons. Babe Ruth would have only hit a couple of hundred "official" home runs as a Negro Leaguer. Josh's legend includes what he did in Mexico and Cuba and Venezuela and the DR and against MLB all star teams and in other barnstorming tours. Everywhere he played, he was a giant, the best hitter in the league by far.. (You also have to consider that Josh played in giant stadiums as his homeparks.)
   49. Davo the Magnificent Posted: July 02, 2009 at 03:08 PM (#3240348)
That would have been a great opening scene for a Six Feet Under episode.
A man named Jonathan Burton died under somewhat similar circumstances as Koenecke--8 passengers "subdued" him after he tried to storm the cockpit before he died of asphyxiation--and his death was featured in an episode of C.S.I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Burton
   50. kthejoker Posted: July 02, 2009 at 03:16 PM (#3240353)
Here's the Time magazine recap of the Koenecke story, I think it puts the timeline of events on the plane in starker relief:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,749145,00.html

EDIT: Also, the plane in which that happened used to be owned by Libby Holman and Smith Reynolds. They've both got pretty bizzare deaths, too.
   51. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3240362)
A man named Jonathan Burton died under somewhat similar circumstances as Koenecke--8 passengers "subdued" him after he tried to storm the cockpit before he died of asphyxiation--and his death was featured in an episode of C.S.I.
I think I've read somewhere that's the producers' least favorite CSI episode ever, since 9/11 made passengers joining together to save a plane look like heroes, and that episode casts them as villans.

People who get so drunk they are kicked off a train then die chasing said train across the Niagra River, however, remain unchanged in the popular mind, so far as I know.
   52. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3240375)
Wow, CSI has been around that long. Shows you how small a part of my life that TV has become. Maybe they'll get around to a Delahantyesque case at some point.
   53. Worrierking Posted: July 02, 2009 at 03:40 PM (#3240380)
Upon doing some research, it appears to be this bridge.



I think you are right, I had ruled it out because that bridge is 15 miles upriver from the falls, and articles mention it being unknown if he died from drowning or from the fall, and I don't see how that would be in question if he fell, drunk, that far from the falls. This obituary also mentions a draw bridge, whereas that bridge is a swing bridge, but maybe that's just a language difference.


That must be it. Fifteen miles above the falls means the stories of him being killed swept over Niagara Falls are stretching it a bit. If he didn't die in the fall from the bridge he would have to be severely injured/inebriated to not be able to extricate himself from the river in fifteen miles. Mybe his body was swept over the falls but it was cold before it made it there. It does make a good story.
   54. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: July 02, 2009 at 04:10 PM (#3240425)
baker was supposedly acquired for p/great_name al albuquerque.
   55. ess eff Posted: July 02, 2009 at 04:13 PM (#3240428)
Jamie McOwen's hitting streak is at 38 games. At what point do we get excited about a Class A minor leaguer's hitting streak?
   56. Davo the Magnificent Posted: July 02, 2009 at 04:43 PM (#3240478)
At what point do we get excited about a Class A minor leaguer's hitting streak?
68. No one will ever top Joe Wilhoit!
   57. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 04:57 PM (#3240489)
That's one wild story. Link to the NY Times recap.


Ah, it all makes sense now after reading the recap, Koenecke was from Baraboo, WI, home of the Circus World Museum. What a clown.
   58. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 04:59 PM (#3240493)
baker was supposedly acquired for p/great_name al albuquerque.

Please make the big leagues and join the Daryl Boston Geographical All-Stars!!!!
   59. ess eff Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:07 PM (#3240501)
Daryl wasn't from Boston, but this major league pitcher [look, it's a trivia question!] had the distinction of wearing his home town on the back of his uniform.
   60. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:10 PM (#3240505)
Daryl wasn't from Boston, but this major league pitcher [look, it's a trivia question!] had the distinction of wearing his home town on the back of his uniform.

Reggie Cleveland?
   61. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:14 PM (#3240513)
There was a major leaguer who wore his birthday on the back of his uniform.
   62. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:14 PM (#3240520)
Steve Phoenix?
   63. ess eff Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:15 PM (#3240521)
Reggie Cleveland?


Nope. Old Double Cheeseburger was a Canadian.

There was a major leaguer who wore his birthday on the back of his uniform.


Right track, but it was home town, not birthday (unless there was a second guy).
   64. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:19 PM (#3240529)
Bill Voiselle.
   65. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:20 PM (#3240532)
Right track, but it was home town, not birthday (unless there was a second guy).

Carlos May wore his birthday on his uniform - MAY 17.
   66. ess eff Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:20 PM (#3240533)
Holy cow! Didn't know about Steve Phoenix, but that's a correct answer.

So, now I'll just have to pretend that no one will think of the intended answer: Bill Voiselle from Ninety-Six, S.C., who wore 96.

EDIT: too late. And nice one on Carlos May, too. Apologies cuz I thought you were making a guess on the other question.
   67. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:23 PM (#3240543)
I thought about Steve Phoenix, but misunderstood the question. Neat.
What about Charlie Gassaway? (Guess that predates names on jerseys...)
   68. Mike Emeigh Posted: July 02, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3240594)
At what point do we get excited about a Class A minor leaguer's hitting streak?


We don't.

-- MWE
   69. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 02, 2009 at 06:01 PM (#3240615)
Indians swap P Jon Meloan to the Rays for P Winston Abreu
   70. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: July 02, 2009 at 06:05 PM (#3240622)
Winston Abreu: AAAA stud.
   71. Mike Emeigh Posted: July 02, 2009 at 06:17 PM (#3240653)
Meloan's being moved around a lot for someone who was supposed to be a stud.

-- MWE
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