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Thursday, October 02, 2008

The Possibly-Temporary Postseason Day Two Game Chatter

Since the Game Chatter does NOT have today’s games up yet, I figured I’d submit a catch-all discussion thread which, if I’m lucky, someone will sticky until Game Chatter shows up.

Gamingboy Posted: October 02, 2008 at 05:37 PM | 865 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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801. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:02 AM (#2965894)

Fine, I will posit that teams with a widely-acclaimed history of not winning in the postseason feel an unusual amount of pressure that causes underperformance. The fact that the 2003 Red Sox overcame a possible effect isn't proof that no effect exists, it's just a data point.

And the White Sox, so it would now seem that there are more teams with a widely-acclaimed history of not winning in the postseason that are winning than there are of teams that are not.

802. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:08 AM (#2965895)

Fine, I will posit that teams with a widely-acclaimed history of not winning in the postseason feel an unusual amount of pressure that causes underperformance.

That's nice, nice and unmeasurable. It doesn't mean that it isn't a good reason, or even a real effect, but you can't use sabermetrics to come up with any good answer about that.

803. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:10 AM (#2965896)

Thank you, that's all I wanted.

Whew, mission accomplished... You're welcome, Glad I could be of some use, it took my mind off this ###########...

804. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:10 AM (#2965897)

It doesn't mean that it isn't a good reason, or even a real effect, but you can't use sabermetrics to come up with any good answer about that.

which is why I said it was subjective at best.

805. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:11 AM (#2965898)

Raffy Furcal has a career 96 OPS+. I had no idea it was that low.

806. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:11 AM (#2965899)

Holy crap, a reasonable explanation of why I'm approaching this wrong.

Which I believe was mentioned earlier in this discussion.

807. RETARDO is "Captain Swing"! Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:12 AM (#2965900)

Kyle, I don't say this very often, but you're the greatest hero in American history.

I come to Cubs threads like this to bask in their fans' anguish. It sustains me. It nurtures my soul. Sometimes the schadenfreude is so great that I get that glazed, thousand yard stare like a Moonie on a street corner selling roses. I SO HAPPY! I'm not a religious person -- hell, I'm an atheist -- but I get almost a religious experience from watching so many morally-degenerate pukefaces crying in pain, which is what they, as people worse than Nazi Child Molesters, deserve; and, at the same time, I feel almost Christianly good in witnessing sick, sick masochists get what they want, which is heartbreak. See how "God" or "karmic" it is? The wicked get punished, while the psychologically retarded heirs of Sacher-Masoch get what they need, too. It's mystical, I tell ya. What a show. MOAR, plz!

And, Dude, you're cranking it eleven, to such agony that I'm practically licking the screen hoping to taste their tears.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

808. KyleJRM Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:12 AM (#2965901)

"Which I believe was mentioned earlier in this discussion."

It's quite possible I missed amongst the strawmen, wild exaggerations and general rudeness. My bad.

809. RETARDO is "Captain Swing"! Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:13 AM (#2965902)

Noooo!!!! Keep trolling dammit!

810. Kazmir Effect Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:14 AM (#2965904)

Yet in 2003 Cub fans thought the Cubs would win the World Series. In 2007 they thought they would win the World Series, same as this year. The Cubs were up 3 games to 1 in 2003 and they lost 3 in a row. There was no sense of impending doom in that series until the 7th game and even then the Cubs had a chance and were winning.

I actually think this is a very recent (post-2003) phenomenon...I think that, prior to that, there was certainly a sense of doom associated with the Cubs in the postseason, but not even in the same stratosphere as the Red Sox, and when the Cubs did make the postseason they were usually not talented enough to win, anyway. This Red Sox level of doom and gloom began in 2003, I think, and will continue until they manage to psych themselves out some year a la the "Idiots." Also, no one I knew thought the Cubs would win the World Series last year.

Last year the sense of doom was not there until at some point in the second game. Again in 2008 there wasn't a sense of doom until after the first game. Fans thought the Cubs were going to steam roll the Dodgers.

Not sure who you talk to in person or online, but pretty much every Cubs fan I talked to said the same thing: "we're a better team, but I'm worried..." I predicted the Cubs in 4 (because that's what the numbers say), but on some level I knew something like this disaster was going to happen.

811. KyleJRM Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:14 AM (#2965905)

I don't know what you're feeding on, but I'm perfectly calm about the losses. On the disappointment scale, I'm a two.

I spent the final three weeks of the regular season mentally conditioning myself to expect a loss and disassociate myself from the team. No hoping, no wondering what it would be like, nothing.

Granted, the diminished emotional connection to the team means that I won't be as happy if they do win it all, or even the NL pennant, but on a purely utilitarian basis, I think I made the right choice.

812. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:14 AM (#2965906)

REally? Kyle is creating anguish for Cub fans? I would think the opposite is happening. Cub fans are saying there is no curse, there is no mythical unseen thingamabob. Where is the anguish in this debate?

813. KyleJRM Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:16 AM (#2965907)

"REally? Kyle is creating anguish for Cub fans? I would think the opposite is happening. Cub fans are saying there is no curse, there is no mythical unseen thingamabob. Where is the anguish in this debate?"

I also said there was no curse or mythical thingamabob, to be fair.

But I think he was saying he was feeding off *my* angst.

814. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:16 AM (#2965908)

t's quite possible I missed amongst the strawmen, wild exaggerations and general rudeness.

here is a tip to prevent you from missing the good stuff, put yourself on ignore all those strawmen posts and wild exaggerations will be gone.

815. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:19 AM (#2965910)

I actually think this is a very recent (post-2003) phenomenon...I think that, prior to that, there was certainly a sense of doom associated with the Cubs in the postseason

Nope. I think everybody knew the Cubs were going to lose the 1998 series but everybody in Chicago was loving the 1984 and 1989 teams. Again the Cubs were up 2-0 to the Padres in 1984, nobody was expecting doom.

Also, no one I knew thought the Cubs would win the World Series last year.

Were they Cub fans? Okay saying people believed they would win the series is a stretch but Cub fans thought they would win the LDS.

816. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:19 AM (#2965911)

Well, now that the statistics thing is over, I'm left wondering why I've been following this team since 1983. Why did I come back to the states for this? Somewhere I know they're not doing this to ME, but it still sucks. This reminds me of the classic Cubs way to lose. The Bartman series was a Red Soxesque collapse, that hurt much more. This sucks, but it isn't registering very high on my pain scale..

817. KyleJRM Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:20 AM (#2965912)

"I'm left wondering why I've been following this team since 1983. "

The fear of seeing them win after you truly cut emotional ties.

818. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:21 AM (#2965913)

And now it's official, this infield has officially #### the bed

819. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:21 AM (#2965914)

I'm just hoping they win one game.

820. The Curly W Theory Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:23 AM (#2965915)

You know what the Cubs need right now?

Slumpbusters.

821. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:23 AM (#2965916)

At least my caps are looking good for this upcoming season. Wait a minute, they've never won the cup.. What is wrong with me?

822. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:23 AM (#2965917)

Well, now that the statistics thing is over, I'm left wondering why I've been following this team since 1983.

I have been asking myself that since 2003 and feel like such an idiot that I thought this year would be different. I also don't think we will be better next year either but hey when the cards won it that was not their best team either.

823. Esoteric Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:24 AM (#2965918)

Juan Pierre got an at-bat. Juan Pierre is standing on 2nd base. Juan Pierre didn't actually earn his way onto that base, but that's as may be.

Things are grim indeed.

EDIT: And now Juan Pierre has touched home plate. Catastrophe.

824. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:28 AM (#2965919)

I also don't think we will be better next year either but hey when the cards won it that was their best team either.

I don't know. The Cubs will have Harden and Fukudome is probably going to have the Matsui bounce and if he doesn't then Lou is probably moving DeRosa to right and installing Fontenot at second. Soto will be behind the plate with one more year of experience. I don't know about CF but besides that the Cubs are looking very good for next year.

825. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:30 AM (#2965920)

Wrong Darling, you don't want DLee up with runners on, you want him up with the bases empty.

See?

826. KyleJRM Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:30 AM (#2965921)

"I don't know. The Cubs will have Harden and Fukudome is probably going to have the Matsui bounce and if he doesn't then Lou is probably moving DeRosa to right and installing Fontenot at second. Soto will be behind the plate with one more year of experience. I don't know about CF but besides that the Cubs are looking very good for next year."

It's hard for me to not see the Cubs winning the division next year, even without upgrading anything.

827. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:30 AM (#2965922)

Past results do not guarantee future results.. Is that a good thing or a bad thing for us?

828. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:31 AM (#2965923)

Chan Ho Park is still pitching? I need to pay more attention to the box scores..

829. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:33 AM (#2965924)

I don't know. The Cubs will have Harden and Fukudome is probably going to have the Matsui bounce and if he doesn't then Lou is probably moving DeRosa to right and installing Fontenot at second. Soto will be behind the plate with one more year of experience. I don't know about CF but besides that the Cubs are looking very good for next year.

I am really hoping on the Fukudome bounce back.

I don't expect Dempster to repeat and don't know what to think about big Z, and who know what to expect from Soriano, and Theriot will probably not do as well.

830. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:35 AM (#2965925)

Where the #### was this earlier in the game?

831. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:35 AM (#2965926)

Too little, too late.

832. Kazmir Effect Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:36 AM (#2965927)

Any big names on the free agent market this year?

833. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:37 AM (#2965928)

Any big names on the free agent market this year?

possibly tons but until the team gets sold I don't think the Cubs will pick up any more.

834. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:38 AM (#2965929)

I don't expect Dempster to repeat and don't know what to think about big Z, and who know what to expect from Soriano, and Theriot will probably not do as well

Right now the Cubs have a large cushion when it comes to their offense. Theriot does't have to be as good for the Cubs to stay on top or near the top.

Zambrano is fine and he will be himself next season. Even if Dempster turns into a back of the rotation pitcher the Cubs still have Harden. Soriano will be Soriano.

835. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:40 AM (#2965930)

3 run homer Soto.

836. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:40 AM (#2965931)

Oh.. that kid is in for some real heartache in his life...

837. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:41 AM (#2965932)

Right now the Cubs have a large cushion when it comes to their offense. Theriot does't have to be as good for the Cubs to stay on top or near the top.

Zambrano is fine and he will be himself next season. Even if Dempster turns into a back of the rotation pitcher the Cubs still have Harden. Soriano will be Soriano.

I can't remember what is DeRosa's contract situation? I would love it if DLee got a bit of his power back too.

838. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:41 AM (#2965933)

If Soto gets on and Lou lets Fukudome hit I think will officially move Lou into my Dusty Baker category.

839. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:42 AM (#2965935)

Alright, it is official. I hate Lou Piniella.

840. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:45 AM (#2965936)

DeRosa is signed through 2009

841. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:45 AM (#2965937)

Fukudome striking out, really who saw that coming?

842. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:46 AM (#2965938)

Looking at the contracts I see Dempster will be a free agent after the third loss in this series. Didn't realize that. I'd say the Cubs should let him walk.

843. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:46 AM (#2965939)

Fukudome is a fraud. Is he scared to swing the bat?

844. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:47 AM (#2965941)

Fukudome is a fraud. Is he scared to swing the bat?

Based on what he swings at I would say he isn't afraid to swing the bat. He is afraid to hit the ball.

845. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:47 AM (#2965942)

Dick: "entire crowd on its feet"

What crowd? I see old people sitting with boos in the background.

846. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:48 AM (#2965943)

Looking at the contracts I see Dempster will be a free agent after the third loss in this series. Didn't realize that. I'd say the Cubs should let him walk.

I was thinking the same thing, not that I think he will suck but I am fearful of a 5 year deal.

847. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:48 AM (#2965944)

BS called third strike.

848. Dan Contilli Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:49 AM (#2965945)

That wasn't a strike. Game over.

849. isaacc7 Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:50 AM (#2965946)

Gah... and the sad thing is that I will watch the rest of this series. I'm not sure if I'm expecting the sweep, or the crushing blow of a loss in the 5th game at home...

850. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:50 AM (#2965947)

That's it. Seriously we need to go back to the hat that has the bear with the bat.

851. McCoy Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:51 AM (#2965948)

I don't think the Cubs would give him a 5 year deal. They would probably offer a 3 year and Dempster would probably settle for a 4. I'm thinking unless somebody goes apeschist in the bidding all Dempster is going to get is a 3 year contract.

But I don't think the Cubs with their backloaded contracts can take the risk of locking in Dempster for the rotation based on one season of work.

852. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:52 AM (#2965949)

Good night everybody.

853. Norcan Posted: October 03, 2008 at 03:54 AM (#2965950)

Billingsley is one weird sounding dude. He's from Ohio, but he sounds like a zoned out Canadian. I wonder what his nickname in the clubhouse is.

I'm never going to be able to watch him pitch again and feel the same way about him.

854. akrasian Posted: October 03, 2008 at 04:01 AM (#2965954)

Chan Ho Park is still pitching? I need to pay more attention to the box scores..

Chan Ho had an excellent season. Maybe even good enough that some team will offer him a shot at starting. If he's smart, though, he'll take the Dodgers' offer to be a key part of their bullpen, since the only team he's had success with in the majors is the Dodgers.

855. Nathan Kunkel Posted: October 03, 2008 at 05:13 AM (#2965960)

this Phillies-Cubs series is going very well. very well indeed.

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