Blood stains, speed kills, fast cars, cheap thrills, High OBP, SBs...

Great read ..
You should put this up on MSN. see if it gets any play.

I personally have been screaming "media hype" since day one, when it comes to roids, mainly because of the AMP's.
It is a double standard, hypocritical, bullcrap, witch hunt.

nothing more.


also a quick note john .. the link in 'phenomena' takes you to BB-REF, not the HBTimes article.

Here’s a clip from a THT column discussing this phenomena as it applies to that hottest of hot buttons—Barry Bonds:

thanks

Here's a thought.

Amphetamines are illegal without a prescription. That is a fact. So are anabolic steroids. Why is it that baseball had to make these drugs illegal within the game, when they were already illegal in the first place. Couldn't MLB just say, "If we see you doing this, you'll be prosecuted for using illegal drugs." I'm guessing there needs to be hard evidence, but what makes these drugs less punishable than other drugs in the court of law. Should amphetamines be equal in punishment and negative publicity as anabolic steroids because both are illegal drugs. Or should anabolic steroids be viewed as worse just because it will increase how much the player "cheats." Does "cheating" more mean that the punishment should be more?

Also this brings us to McGuire. He took supplements (at least that we know of) that were legal. They could be sold at GNC stores at the time. If he really did take supplements that are perfectly legal, but still viewed as steroids, does that make it right? I think it does. Would it be fine if he were taking amphetamines, which were illegal to have in the US, but not in MLB?

This really comes down to the US Law vs. MLB Rules and cheating. Is this whole steroid era bad because it's viewed as cheating, or viewed as breaking the law, or a combination of both. But if the cheating was done with suppliments sold legally, is that really cheating? Every player takes supplements, whether it's protein, creatine, or even multivitamins. What's the difference between a multivitamin and a some testosterone supplement if both are legal. One might be more effective, but it's still something anyone could get and use.

Does anyone else think this is logical? With this idea, McGuire should have had every right to take the andro, and not have been considered cheating because it wasn't against the MLB rules, and also not against the US Law.

I lost my sense, I lost control, I lost my mind...

also a quick note john .. the link in 'phenomena' takes you to BB-REF, not the HBTimes article.

How did that happen? Ah well ... having Forman on my mind (strictly in a non-sexual way) is seldom a bad thing.

Best Regards

John

Does anyone else think this is logical?

Logic has nothing to do with this entire issue.

The image I get in my mind is "peasants with pitchforks" when I read the various condemnations from writers on this site, the press, congress and the "clean" players.

The more I read about HgH (which appears to speed the healing process), the more it appears little different that cortisone (which appears to reduce swelling and masks pain) - except that it is on a government banned list. Yet Curt Schilling, who has had the one condemns any player who has had the other.

Peasants with pitchforks.

Couldn't MLB just say, "If we see you doing this, you'll be prosecuted for using illegal drugs."

No, because private businesses do not have the authority to enforce US law. And if they arbitrarily punish a player for violating US law without some prior specific agreement with the union, they will be in a heep of trouble.

That's a Danny Heep of trouble.

John:

Amps aren't performance enhancing. Two sentences from Bouton and a million posts from Andy proved that years ago.

Heh ... you'll note I didn't say they were. What I did say is that amphetamines had an impact on baseball records.

Best Regards

John

The linked article 'phenomena', is a solid piece also, if anybody needs a refresher on the hysteria surrounding the hunt.

And if they arbitrarily punish a player for violating US law without some prior specific agreement with the union, they will be in a heep of trouble.

AKA Why Uberroth couldn't punish Steve Howe successfully.

MLBfan said:

Amphetamines are illegal without a prescription. That is a fact. So are anabolic steroids. Why is it that baseball had to make these drugs illegal within the game, when they were already illegal in the first place.

Because they are generally "legal", that is, you can get a prescription for amphetamines or biphetamines from a slightly co-operative doc. In spite of repeated assertions around the news world, neither are illegal; as this writer noted right at the start, they are illegal without a prescription, just like birth control pills, Lipitor, Synthroid, Zoloft, Propecia blahblahblah. So baseball's internal rule made them illegal to use with a prescription, it seems. And, btw, the same goes for human growth hormone and many steroidals -- you can get them legally with a prescription, so it's not safe to assume they are any more "illegal" than someone buying Synthroid or Viagra from Canada over the 'net.

And one more note. When I played semi-pro soccer, I used prescription amphetamines for some games. We have high physiological variation as a species (why we are, for now, one of the three dominant species on the planet), so they don't affect everyone the same way, but I had years of direct experience with a variety of them. In my observation, they are PEDs in the same way coffee is, with only one significant difference: when taken in moderation, a mental/emotional tranquility. So the body is saying the three-cups-of-coffee "I can do ANYTHING", and the mind is saying "Yes, and everything is mellow. Tranquilo , vato." That combo will enhance performance beyond coffee for the subset of people who cannot lose themselves in the moment, whose internal narrators are telling them they should'a would'a could'a, which diffuses concentration on the present moment, a limiting factor for some. Bouton didn't benefit much from taking greenies -- they didn't address his limiting factor.

John:

Amps aren't performance enhancing. Two sentences from Bouton and a million posts from Andy proved that years ago.

Traderdave, if you're actually interested in more than sound bite summaries of what I actually have been saying in those million posts, you should look at the recent thread on the subject that ended yesterday. It ended with me and Dial not that far apart.