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Thursday, October 23, 2008

THT: Tango: Momentum? Shmomentum!

To the pseudovector belong the spoils.

Now, let’s say that you somehow are god-like, and know momentum when you see it. How much is it worth? As we know, a superstar like Albert Pujols is worth some seven wins, per 162 games, above replacement. That means that if you have a .500 chance of winning with an average team and bad first baseman, adding Pujols will make it a .550 team. Something like that. If you have a great pitcher, C.C. Sabathia or Doc Halladay, you turn a .500 team into a .625 team. How much can momentum be worth? Can it possibly cancel out the Rays bringing in C.C. Sabathia or Roy Halladay? Can it even cancel out bringing in Grady Sizemore or Pujols or Joe Mauer? Is momentum even worth Willie Bloomquist?

...And don’t forget that we’re talking extreme momentum here; in-game momentum in which the team scored five runs in an inning to tie the game. One must believe that the effect of momentum must be even less day-to-day.

Momentum exists. But we’ll be hard-pressed to find it in anything other than in-game scenarios. We can barely find it with the numbers in even the most dramatic come-from-behind games. All you have left to do is enjoy the moment, without having to explain it. If you really have the need to tell people that you have found momentum, then here’s what you do: Find 10 games from now for the next 12 months that you think has momentum or chemistry written all over it. Bet on the game. Then, come back here, on November 1, 2009, and tell me how much money you made. And I don’t want to hear only from the winners.

Repoz Posted: October 23, 2008 at 10:55 AM | 7 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralSabermetrics

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   1. WallyBackmanFan  Posted: October 23, 2008 at 01:03 PM (#2993164)
Wouldn't being a better team than the opponent make it more likely to come back from a big deficit? If so, we might expect the sample to be overweighted with "momentum" teams that are also simply the better teams. In those situations, tie game going forward, you'd expect the better team to outperform league averages.

I suspect that if Tango factored in the expected results or win expectancy of the individual matchups, once tied, what little bump he found for "momentum" teams would vanish.
   2. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory)  Posted: October 23, 2008 at 01:37 PM (#2993195)
Wouldn't being a better team than the opponent make it more likely to come back from a big deficit?

Being a worse team would make you more likely to be at a big deficit, though.
   3. Tango  Posted: October 23, 2008 at 01:41 PM (#2993200)
Right on #2, I would think.

Both teams are tied coming into the, say 7th. One got there by scoring all their runs in the 6th, and the other by scoring all their runs in the first 5 innings. I'm not sure that you can say that there is a bias in team quality based on that information.

The bias may exist in terms of bullpen, and so momentum may simply be "the next hour's relief pitchers". I did not check for that.
   4. SoSH U at work  Posted: October 23, 2008 at 01:50 PM (#2993209)
The bias may exist in terms of bullpen, and so momentum may simply be "the next hour's relief pitchers". I did not check for that.


That was what I was going to suggest, that the bullpen conditions may be vastly different (one team's guy is more likely to be throwing well, the other one searching for an arm that's useful).

I've always wondered what was included under the momentum umbrella. Increased confidence/loss of confidence? Sure, I think that can lead to continued success. An injury suffered by the other team? Obviously. Better execution (particularly in other sports)? Absolutely. But if it's strictly the idea that good recent results will produce future good results, independent of these more factors, then no.
   5. Bob Dernier Cri  Posted: October 23, 2008 at 02:06 PM (#2993222)
Would "momentum" exist less in baseball for reasons mentioned in Tango's article and in the comments so far? One of my favorite examples is Game Two of the 2000 World Series. One of the most seemingly-momentum-filled final comeback innings imaginable ... until Kurt Abbott came up to bat, and all the momentum in the world couldn't prevent him striking out. Whereas in a sport that depends on individuals feeding off one another's moves and energies, you truly might get a string where success built on success (which is of course just another way of being the better team). And often there would be some factor unrelated, as SoSH U points out, to mere success building on success. I read somewhere that the Bears beating the Redskins 73-0 in the 1940 NFL Championship Game was in part due to better footwear on a frozen field. If so, no wonder that the Bears got stronger as the game went on ...
   6. WallyBackmanFan  Posted: October 23, 2008 at 02:26 PM (#2993239)
Being a worse team would make you more likely to be at a big deficit, though.


That's absolutely true, but misses the point. Being down five isn't what gets teams into the sample. Once a team is down five, a better team should be more likely to have one of these comebacks.

While the '03 Tigers are way more likely to be down five than the '27 Yankees, once in that spot, the Yankees are more likely to comeback. And if they do, we'd all agree that being '27 Yankees is more of an advantage going forward in the tie game, than any momentum garnered from coming back.

Tango, I'm not sure of any bias in team quality based on the comebacks themselves, but the records going into the games would certainly be relevant. This study treats both teams like .500 teams subject to league average splits. With a 230 game sample, it could very well be that the teams coming back were .530 coming in, or the teams blowing leads were .470 or somewhere inbetween. If that were the case, it would undermine your results. I wish you had checked.

Regardless, thanks for the article.
   7. Tango  Posted: October 23, 2008 at 02:55 PM (#2993246)
Wally, excellent point. To elaborate, the Yanks could be down by 5 say ten times in the year, and the Royals could be down by 5 say forty times, but the Yanks get to be part of the sample of comebackers say two or three times, and the Royals zero or one time. Excellent point.

Ok, so quality of offense and defense should be included, as well as quality of relievers remaining.
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