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Or something.
You do know that the Yankees traded for Nady and sent down Gardner?
If Farnsworth closes well this year, the Tigers are going to re-sign him for multiple years.
if, in fact, Pudge doesn't call a good game, the only pitcher who I can see being affected is Pettitte, who depends on his catcher a lot. Mussina calls his own game, Joba has the stuff, and the rest of the rotation is going to be hit-or-miss no matter who's catching.
I think this is a good example of a trade that makes sense for both parties. Not every trade has to have a winner and a loser. Tigers had a catcher, Yankees needed one. Yankees had a reliever, Tigers needed one. Swap. Done. They're both better off.
However, even if he has great results with the Yankees staff, who can tell through the small sample size?
i didn't see any rumors about this trade, and it just seems too goofy to be true.
I remember that in past years I-Rod was criticized by his pitchers for calling fastballs almost exclusively with men on base so that he could pad his caught stealing numbers. I haven't heard this criticism in recent years, though.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/sports/baseball/29yankees.html
This assumes that he can ever catch again. On WFAN they had on a surgeon as a guest. He felt that if Posada had surgery, he was done as a catcher (this was before he had the surgery) because the shoulder would not be up to throwing the ball back to the pitcher 150 times a game.
I do, but Nady isn't playing everyday and, well, he's still Xavier Nady. My point is that an offensive upgrade at the back of that lineup was necessary given the spit and dirt that's holding together the rotation.
One of the complaints about I-Rod was his refusal to go to pre-game meetings with his pitchers. Plus the constant calling for fastballs to keep his throw-out % high.
Is he still a fan favorite in Detroit? I would think he'd be plenty liked, but Granderson, Mags, and Verlander seem like they'd top Pudge in the popularity department.
Leyland is up to four packs a day with all the walks and that still isn't enough to get the permanent scowl off his face. He looks like he's going to blow almost every game.
Pudge has been basically a slap hitter and its not like the Tigers are dying on offense now that he is gone either.
And his defense hasn't been that great either. Trading your 8th inning guy for not-your-father's Pudge is hardly the steal it's being portrayed as. There was a pretty clear undercurrent going on that the Tigs weren't exactly overwhelmed by Pudge v.2008. He wasn't really even a full-time C anymore.
I wonder what it will do to the "bandwagon" fan base, because Rodriguez was the first big move the Tigers made to get out of the suckiness they were in for the decade before.
If they play better, no one will care.
I still don't like Inge as a full-time C. Three out of the five non-outfielders are now not playing their natural position and if Guillen gets nicked up, it's either Santiago or Raburn at 3B or Inge's backup at C. This can't be the only move they're going to make.
"Dollars to donuts" just ain't the odds they used to be; that's what, virtually 1:1?
Molina -- good defensive catcher
Giambi -- lousy thrower, good hands
Cano -- good defensive player
Jeter -- lousy, but having a better year than normal
A-Rod -- good defensive player
Damon -- no arm, but good range in left
Cabrera -- good defensive player
Abreu -- good defensive player
I'll even conced that some of the "goods" are merely "average", but they're not a terrible defense outside of Jeter right now.
That is true, winning does matter more then the perceived value of a player.
and I do wonder if any other moves are in the works....the Dodgers still need a shortstop?
It's like Christmas--knowing that I'll never have to watch Girardi bring Farnsworth in to pitch the 8th inning again.
Inge came up a C.
an inside joke of some sort?
I guess I made the mistake of confusing "guy who always pitches the 8th inning and only pitches in the 8th inning" with "8th inning guy."
My bad.
1B: Jason Giambi -10 (26th)
2B: Robinson Cano -5 (25th)
3B: Alex Rodriguez -3 (15th)
SS: Derek Jeter -3 (21st)
LF: Johnny Damon +7 (6th)
CF: Melky Cabrera +5 (8th)
RF: Bobby Abreu -13 (31st)
The Yankees defense would be significantly better off with Xavier Nady, a perfectly average right fielder, playing RF and Abreu DH'ing, rather than the other way around. Cano rated as fantastic defensively last year, but that appears to have been an aberration; this year he's back to his well below average 2006 level. Jeter's playing well above his established defensive level this year, against all odds. Cabrera was terrible in CF last year but has drastically improved this year.
All in all, the Yankees' defense is, in fact, pretty terrible. They have two good outfielders, and everyone else is below average.
Comparing Larry's evaluation to what the numbers say:
Giambi: Lousy thrower, good hands vs. terrible.
Cano: good vs. bad.
Rodriguez: good vs. bad.
Jeter: lousy but having a better year than normal; the numbers agree.
Damon: good vs. great. (The only player Larry's underrating.)
Cabrera: good vs. good.
Abreu: good vs. horrible.
BPro ranks the Yankees 26th out of 30 teams in defensive efficiency, and that's about where they deserve to be. They're not quite the Pirates or Rangers, but they're one of the worst defensive teams in baseball.
Converted from SS by Randy the Dimwitted.
In other words, they would have gone ahead and accepted Coke?
But anyway, it's only been a few days. I like to wait two or three weeks before I'm sure a Pirates acquisition doesn't already have a torn labrum.
I love my team, but have to concur with this assessment. There's no way to watch the team and conclude anything other than that they are at best a below average defensive team. They add drama to even routine plays. I'm not surprised by A-Rod's ranking,and he's not that bad (compared to other Yankees, that is). And Giambi's brutal. I do think, however, that Cano's not that bad.
Both New York teams (Yankees/Mets)
Both Chicago teams (Cubs/White Sox)
Both LA teams (Angels/Dodgers)
Boston
and finally the Milwaukee Brewers score one for "parity".
Not that I care, I don't, but all these years people complained about lack of competitive balance when the Marlins won 2 WS titles, the Cleveland Indians had a decade long run and streak of sellouts etc..., but now when people agree there is "parity" we get the 7 largest baseball markets in the postseason, possibly, with the Milwaukee Brewers.
I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't want a damn asterisk when the Brewers win the 2008 World Series.
I don't think the Tigers will miss I-Rod, but I don't feel any need to denigrate his history. I'm appalled at the thought of Farnsworth in that bullpen. Maybe it will be fine. I don't know what Leyland will do, he tends to make a decision & stick with it in the face of all sorts of contrary evidence. Am I the only Tiger fan who wishes we could trade Leyland for Ozzie?
And yes -- Rodriguez is going for the record & he is going to want starts at Catcher; I can't imagine him signing anywhere as a backup.
I was just thinking about this the other day -- I think this might be the beginning of a pattern, not just a blip. Slowly but surely, the rich teams are getting smarter. That means that slowly but surely, they're going to dominate the game more and more.
The Dodgers I'm not so sure about, though, this year or going forward.
Other than that, I'm more with JZ than Larry on this one. Yankees have more defensive problems than solutions. That being said, Farnsworth made me nervous every time he came into a game, so no great loss.
You know what I like? The luxury tax. There was an NBA article a couple days ago about how the NBA should get rid of the salary cap and just keep the luxury tax.
Maybe it could be brought down to a level where the Phillies, Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, and Mariners are all paying it, instead of just the Yankees.
I think I should clarify myself there - I'm not saying Derek Jeter is one of the worst gloves that ever played shortstop. But he pretty clearly is the worst defensive shortstop that's ever played 1000+ games at the position.
Giambi, I'm probably being too harsh on. There have been some *really* terrible first basemen in history.
####### those Mariners, dominating the AL West all decade.
Like Jose Molina!
Whoa. I have mondo trouble believing this. Just looking at the AL East, I would suspect that the Yanks, Sox, and Jays would start him. And the Rays and Orioles would upgrade their bench.
That is awesome.
Based on what?
Among full time catchers, he is second in the majors in CS percentage.
He does not seem to have an unusually high number of passed balls.
His legs and savvy have not entirely deserted him -- his is 6 out of 7 in stealing bases.
He is third in the majors among catchers in Fielding Win Shares (which is probably worthless, but at least it's easy to look up).
He does need more rest than he used to, granted. Other than that, he is a great pick up for the Yankees with Posada gone for the season, and at a reasonable price.
The Yankees are in 3rd place, 4 games out.
The Tigers are in 3rd place, 5.5 games out.
I guess that game and a half means a lot.
Wow, how'd he feel about 81 tosses for pre-inning infield warmup?
This is the problem with using one defensive metric to make all of your evaluations, you end up saying things that look really, really stupid.
But he pretty clearly is the worst defensive shortstop that's ever played 1000+ games at the position.
You have no idea if that's true since we don't have any reliable data from before 1980 whenever.
I can't imagine him having to, off this year. Even if it is only a 1 or 2 year contract, he is 9th in VORP among ML catchers -- so he is bound to be an upgrade for somebody.
Too proud to roll it underhand, is he?
That was pretty good.
Lets wait until the season is over before we jump to conclusions...
Here's the team salaries. You missed the #2, #5, #6, #8, #10, #11, #12 teams. Phillies are 13th.
That's OK. I'm willing to bet my money on it anyway.
By the way, I do concede the point about Cano. He does rate well with most everything else.
Huh? The Tigers were picked by a bunch of people to win the AL this year, they're 5 1/2 out, have a very talented team, and play 24 of 32 at home in August and September against mostly crap. They're obviously still a contender and no one, least of all their front office, thinks otherwise.
Oh no, I'm not wasting my evening trying to convince people of something based on questionable numbers and subjective viewings. I just wanted to get that posted before I sign off.
You'll only get 1-8 odds.
The Tigers are in 3rd place, 5.5 games out.
I hate to bring this up, but the Yankees are 1.5 games out of the WildCard (one game in the loss column).
Detroit is 6 games back.
What, if I bet $800 on Jeter being the worst defensive SS that's played 1000 games at the position, and the baseball gods one day come to earth and comfirm I'm right, I only get back $900? That's still a free $100. Sign me up.
"Here's my wallet. Why don't you just give me back how much you think I should have."
(Not enough to kill him though. I'd settle for a Ric Flair-like broken back.)
This trade makes me really sad. Pudge signing a few years ago was the first bit of any light for the Tigers team after a decade of crap. I can remember for years hoping for .500 season.
Pudge is a Tiger fan favorite, perhaps just behind Ordonez. Plus its the Yankees, can for one year they not make the playoffs.
From a baseball stand point. B-prospectus has the Tigers at about a 10% chance of making the playoffs. 2% wild card, 8% division. I wonder how many of those scenarios have the yankees just ahead of the Tigers. So there is a fraction of a % chance of the Tigers finishing second to the Yanks as the wild card.
As a fan 5.5 games out is close enough to feel like there is a chance. But I don't feel like watching the game tonight now (well that and its Robertson v. Lee)
As long as guys like Rafael Ramirez and Frank Taveras survive in the reference files Jeter does not meet your standard.
And those are just guys that quickly came to mind.
Unless, of course, you believe there is value in commiting 35-40 errors a year with minimal range and no double plays......
I understand that Kyle Farnsworth is to be hated with a white hot passion. And I understand that Pudge used to be fantastic.
I am aghast that this has happened.
Pudge is at least playing like an above-average player, second best in the majors at throwing out base-runners, while hitting around 100 OPS+, which is well above average for a catcher. Can he keep it up? Maybe not all of that, but if he gets a decent amount of rest, I think he will continue to be above average and a clear upgrade over Molina.
(Not enough to kill him though. I'd settle for a Ric Flair-like broken back.)
Ivan Rodriguez is Space Mountain. Kyle Farnsworth is the Tower of Terror.
I-Rod should put down four fingers for every call. And when the pitchers complain, he can tell them it's the best thing going today and they'd better learn to love it.
Kyle Fransworth?!
KYLE F@CKING FARNSWORTH?!!
Oh. Man. Are we the new g@ddamn Kansas City A's?
I hate you all.
Funny thing, none of those trades has worked out, at all.
Whether Pudge is better than Jose Molina is the very definition of a straw man, with respect to what I am talking about.
Can you provide one shred of evidence that he's only average. Or that he's below average? Pudge is having a very good season right now, you can't expect him to just fall off the table right now, especially considering how much rest he's gotten this year.
but yes, phillips is incredibly dumb. was dumb as a gm, and reinforces it as an "analyst".
Doesn't work that way. Arbitration deals are offered and accepted (or not) by December 1 and 7, respectively. Then teams and players have until January to settle "out of court," but a player walking after the arbitration acceptance deadline is not an option.
But $7M or so for a reliever who has repeatedly failed as a closer is a pretty massive cost. I think he'll be cut loose unless he is awesome as Detroit's closer, which I don't think will happen.
Well, there's a job for The Captain!
I think this is much ado over not much. Yankees upgrade from a bad catcher to a mediocre one who needs to be rested two days a week; Tigers get a failed closer who can throw really hard and really straight.
I don't think you can have it both ways here. Either he's a good one who needs rest or a mediocre one overall, but I read your statement as "mediocre when playing, which is five out of seven days", which I don't think is supported by fact.
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