As long as we were talking about pool films, and other activities of dark places, I would also recommend the gambling film "The Cincinnati Kid".

He was no match for The Toronto Kid.

god, i thought cincinnati kid was terrible. its supposed to take place in the depression and everybody looks like they've been hanging out at a disco or something. just terrible wardrobe and hairdos, full of anachronysms about new orleans in those days.
but edward g. robinson was great, as always.

He was no match for The Toronto Kid.

"Aren't you a long way from your sexist football coaches, your polluted Ohio River and your third-rate mass transit system?"

Seriously, I've never been quite able to figure out why there are so many first rate, and realistic, boxing movies, and not one similar baseball movie, with the semi-exceptions of Eight Men Out and to a lesser extent, Cobb. Maybe it's just because the corruption in boxing is so generally known and accepted as a given, whereas baseball fans still would rather have their fantasies.

I think one big thing is the use of the play-by-play announcing during baseball movies is cheesy at best, juvenile at worst. Bull Durham used it to effect, so it didn't really undermine the action. But most baseball movies are too lazy & will just pile the PbP on, to the movie's detriment. (Of course, Major League nailed it with Uecker, which was an inspired use of the genre's biggest cliche.)

Seems to me most baseball movies are a lot like baseball games, in that there are long stetches of nominal if not boring activity, punctuated by glittering moments of sublime beauty. Field of Dreams and The Natural were like that for me, overall rather substandard yet with some of the best, most memorable scenes in all baseball movies.

I took the recommendation of a few posters awhile back and watched Slapshot. It is by far the best sports movie I have ever seen.

Petroskey, a former Republican official, said earlier this year he wish he could have had a do-over.

His just desserts for being a reflexive faux-patriotic d-bag.

And for a much better Tim Robbins movie---an infinitely better Tim Robbins movie---try Robert Altman's Short Cuts.

One of my favorite movies of all time (infinitely better than "Bull Durham," as you said), but it's no more a "Tim Robbins movie" than it is an "[insert name of any of about 86 good actors that appear in the film] movie." It's more a Robert Altman movie than anything else. (Or a Raymond Carver movie, but it was Altman that so seamlessly wove all those Carver stories together.)

Robbins' character in the movie is definitely one of the movie's better ones, though. Perhaps the most detestable prick in a film full of them.

I took the recommendation of a few posters awhile back and watched Slapshot. It is by far the best sports movie I have ever seen.

Paul Newman's leisure suits are worth the price of admission.

baseball movies would be improved immensely if directors banned slo mo. i'll never understand why they think it's a good idea to do that. you can't run a sequence in slo mo without having to layer on music, and that just ruins everything. its supposed to be action.

and the movie makers don't understand that the back story in a baseball movie has to be good. it can't just be filler. that's why eight men out works. its one of the most important events in baseball history, compelling even to non-baseball types.

i think a good movie could be made about jackie robinson if a smart director used oral history sequences using some of the material from 'bums' (peter golenbock), and shot it the way warren beatty did 'reds' ... but i cringe at what hollywood would do with it.

I haven't seen this rather recent indie one, Andy (and meant to), and even if it's awful, it still might be great, considering the lead.

www.turntheriver.com

Written and directed by THE Chris Eigeman?!?

Yes, THE Chris Eigeman.

And let me tell you something. He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like everybody else. But once he puts them on, he makes blockbuster films.

I took the recommendation of a few posters awhile back and watched Slapshot. It is by far the best sports movie I have ever seen.

Slapshot was critically underappreciated when it came out in the mid-1970s; either Siskel or Ebert originally gave it a huge thumbs down -- and years later, admitted they were utterly wrong. Today it stands out as one of Newman's best performances.

Madsen looked better at her peak; Sarandon has aged better.

bollocks. madsen looked pretty damn wonderful in Sideways ...

[Short Cuts is] one of my favorite movies of all time (infinitely better than "Bull Durham," as you said), but it's no more a "Tim Robbins movie" than it is an "[insert name of any of about 86 good actors that appear in the film] movie." It's more a Robert Altman movie than anything else. (Or a Raymond Carver movie, but it was Altman that so seamlessly wove all those Carver stories together.)

Absolutely true. I only said "Robbins movie" because Robbins was in it and we're talking about Bull Durham. But in terms of an eclectic all-star cast you have to go back to those studio era flicks like Dinner At Eight to match it. The Tom Waits character alone was worth the price of admission. And though the Robbins character is fully matched in dirtball tendencies by Frances McDormand's, I agree that it's about as lowlife as it gets.
---------------

baseball movies would be improved immensely if directors banned slo mo. i'll never understand why they think it's a good idea to do that. you can't run a sequence in slo mo without having to layer on music, and that just ruins everything. its supposed to be action.

A thousand amens to that. Slow motion and accompanying music are the surest sign that a movie has absolutely nothing to say to anyone but a soap opera fanette.

and the movie makers don't understand that the back story in a baseball movie has to be good. it can't just be filler. that's why eight men out works. its one of the most important events in baseball history, compelling even to non-baseball types.

Obviously they don't want to bore the non-fans with history that only a fan could possibly care about. They're afraid of the first critic who might drop the word "seamhead" in his review.

i think a good movie could be made about jackie robinson if a smart director used oral history sequences using some of the material from 'bums' (peter golenbock), and shot it the way warren beatty did 'reds' ... but i cringe at what hollywood would do with it.

If Hollywood did to poor Jackie Robinson what it did to the Russian Revolution in Reds, we'd be better off just watching re-runs of Pride of the Yankees, which was about on the same level of historical accuracy.

god, i thought cincinnati kid was terrible. its supposed to take place in the depression and everybody looks like they've been hanging out at a disco or something. just terrible wardrobe and hairdos, full of anachronysms about new orleans in those days.

Jesus, I watched and enjoyed that movie about 30 years ago, and I never remembered it at all as being set in the 30's. But I see by googling that you're absolutely right, and what a hoot. Because you're also right that the clothes and the dialogue were about as true to the 30's as the role of the FBI in Mississippi Burning was true to the real role of the FBI in the Mississippi of the 60's. The only "30's" thing about The Cincinnati Kid was the fact that three of the actors (Robinson, Joan Blondell and Cab Calloway) were rooted in that decade.

But I still liked the movie in spite of it. Probably because I don't know a damn thing about poker.

i can't speak to the accuracy of 'reds', but i meant beatty's method. i thought it was well done and a watchable movie from a dramatic standpoint. of course, that's what happens when you film based on fact. events have to be conflated, stretched, edited, etc. to make a watchable movie. but i still think the robinson saga could be handled that way. go back and read the section of 'bums' devoted to robinson and you'll see what i mean. and like i said, i think hollywood would find a way to screw it up.

i remember liking cincinnati kid a lot when i was young, too. then i saw it again later, and i thought whoa, hold on. then i saw it a couple of years ago and was just amazed at how bad it was in some respects. but yeah, i love that edward g.

I agree that Reds got the full Hollywood treatment, for better and for worse. Unfortunately for me, I just can't let phony history slide by that easily. And trust me, that movie is about as true to reality as Warren Beatty and the young Faye Dunaway look like the real Bonnie and Clyde. Hollywood just can't help itself when it comes to butchering history and imposing its prevailing CW on events and personalities of the past. It's their version of the chain store mentality.

Sure, they could make a great movie out of Jackie Robinson, who along with Ruth and Cobb was the most dominant baseball personality of the 20th century. But the best you'd likely get would be a baseball version of Spike Lee's Malcolm X, which wasn't all that great but at least bore some resemblance to the history of the period. The problem is that the real Jackie Robinson was just too damn smart, complex, and just plain interesting for Hollywood to ever be able to translate him onto a screen. Especially if it were targeting the movie at a mass audience. Maybe if Spike Lee could resurrect Jules Tygiel and Carl Rowan (who ghosted Jackie's 1960 autobiography), he might get somewhere.

bollocks. madsen looked pretty damn wonderful in Sideways ...

You know, I never thought Madsen was all that.

Madsen looked pretty good in the Don Johnson classic that also featured Jennifer Connelly's naughty bits. The name of the film escapes me due to the power of DJ's performance.

You know, I never thought Madsen was all that.

Try "Gotham." See if that does it.

Madsen looked pretty good in the Don Johnson classic that also featured Jennifer Connelly's naughty bits. The name of the film escapes me due to the power of DJ's performance.

The Hot Spot.

Madsen has gotten better looking as she's gotten older, IMO. She acquired a complexity she didn't have when she was younger and bleached blonde starlet.

One thing I find most attractive in a women is intelligence and perceptiveness and she has that now and I find it very appealing.

One great basebal movie not mentioned so far:

The Stratton Story (1949) -- Jimmy Stewart played Monty Stratton, the White Sox pitcher who shot his leg off. It was a box office smash and won an Oscar for Best Writing. Unlike most baseball movies, it was devoid of gooey sentiment.

Put me down for The Sandlot. Just a fun movie.

I agree with the people that have pointed out that Bull Durham is really not so much a baseball movie as a life-lessons movie with a baseball setting.

I always wanted to make a kids baseball movie that is a carefree baseball romp for about 45 minutes before taking an extremely dark turn.

Take Little Big League. It not only did all the baseball cliches, it did all the kid movie cliches. Now, if instead of how it turned out, just think how much better it would have been if Leon Durham had started disemboweling his teammates one-by-one.

Written and directed by THE Chris Eigeman?!?

AS written and directed by THE Whit Stillman:

Nick Smith: The cha cha is no more ridiculous than life itself.

Jane Clark: What are you reading?
Nick Smith: The story of Babar... I'd forgotten how beautiful it was.

Nick Smith: The titled aristocracy are the scum of the earth.
Sally Fowler: You always say "titled" aristocrats. What about "untitled" aristocrats?
Nick Smith: Well, I could hardly despise them, could I? That would be self-hatred.

[hat-tip to imdb]

Now, if instead of how it turned out, just think how much better it would have been if Leon Durham had started disemboweling his teammates one-by-one.

And seriously, Dan, you wonder why none of us want to be libertarians. ;-)

I only said "Robbins movie" because Robbins was in it and we're talking about Bull Durham.

And at the risk of starting a political flame war, I'd also put "Bob Roberts" above "Bull Durham" in the pantheon of movies featuring Robbins. Nowhere near "Short Cuts," of course.

And trust me, that movie is about as true to reality as Warren Beatty and the young Faye Dunaway look like the real Bonnie and Clyde.

True to life or not, Faye Dunaway was feckin' hot back then, which fully justifies any historical inaccuracy.

Faye Dunaway was feckin' hot back then, which fully justifies any historical inaccuracy.
Ain't no bolshevik babes that hot, that's for sure.

I find it weird you guys are discussing Tim Robbins movies without gushing over Shawshank Redemption. I personally don't like the film, but most people seem to love it. In reality, Tim Robbins' greatest film is one you probably don't remember, you poor, ignorant bastards.

I wouldn't say I "don't like" Shawshank Redemption; I thought it was wonderful, actually. But IMDB's voters have it as the #1 movie of all time. Seriously, guys? So yeah, a little overrated, I'd say.

Faye Dunaway was feckin' hot back then, which fully justifies any historical inaccuracy.

Ain't no bolshevik babes that hot, that's for sure.

Don't know about that, comrade. Miss Ninotchka might beg to differ.

Thank god for Enrico Pallazo.

EN-RI-CO!! PA-LA-ZO!! EN-RI-CO!! PA-LA-ZO!!

Don't know about that, comrade. Miss Ninotchka might beg to differ.
Just another Hollywood poseur! If the Commies all looked like Garbo and Dunaway, even Nieporent would give up his Libertarian card-carrying ways to go red.

Don't know about that, comrade. Miss Ninotchka might beg to differ.

Just another Hollywood poseur! If the Commies all looked like Garbo and Dunaway, even Nieporent would give up his Libertarian card-carrying ways to go red.

Could be. After all, it may have been this cheesecake shot of The Libertarian Goddess that pointed Mr. Nieporent rightward, so to speak.

OTOH, it might have just been the sight of Mrs. Lenin that did the trick.

Thanks (I think), Andy. I hadn't seen a pic of Mrs. Lenin before. That household must have been a laugh a minute.
Those two ladies deserve to move in the BBTF picture pantheon with this lovely lady

Thanks (I think), Andy. I hadn't seen a pic of Mrs. Lenin before. That household must have been a laugh a minute.

And it had a great start, since Mr. & Mrs. Lenin were arrested by the Tsar's police right around the time of their marriage, and spent their honeymoon in Siberian exile!

Indeed, Hollywood's versions of communists is typically a bit more aesthetically pleasing than those earlier real-life examples, hunh?

I find it weird you guys are discussing Tim Robbins movies without gushing over Shawshank Redemption.

O-VER-RA-TED (clap clap clapclapclap)...

EDIT: I see I was beaten to the punch.