Mark McGuire can be reached at 454-5467 or by e-mail at mmcguire@timesunion.com. But he doesn't want top talk about the "past"

"I actually told Ron this idea a couple of months ago," Robbins began. "(Nuke) hurt his arm. I want the sequel to open with him at one of those trade shows signing autographs."

Shelton animatedly takes over: "And you pan from Pete Rose and all these guys getting $350 and $500 an autograph, and there's Nuke and he's getting 15 bucks. And he's really steamed about it because (he was supposed) to get 25."

No, Nuke did not live up to his potential.

"My view of his major-league career is he went up there and in his second year in the majors he was 18-4. In his third year he was 4-18," Shelton said. "It was a sort of an unrealized career in which we saw glimpses of his greatness."

Crash Davis, the grizzled catcher, "is now managing Durham in Triple A, back with a (major-league) dream alive again," Shelton said. "I think he's kept this wonderful hot relationship with Annie, who probably has the Faulkner Chair in Oxford, Miss."

The story? "Crash and Annie find him in the middle of a drunken stupor in the middle of his hotel room or something," Robbins said, "and bring him back to the majors by teaching him how to throw a knuckleball …"

Huh. It could work. Maybe. But there are a few things standing in it's way.

For one thing, they are well past the optimal time for a sequel. The longer it takes you to make a sequel, the more likely it is to get ripped no matter what the quality. To use an example: If Indiana Jones 4 had been made in the early nineties instead of 2008, it would have a far better IMDB score then it does now. But as time went on, no matter what was made it would have been hated by those who had basically made it all up their head.

Second off, Minor League Baseball is now very different. Durham is in AAA, in a modern stadium. And AAA is quite different from the AAA that Shelton played in (thanks to all the field improvement acts and such) and very different from the A-Ball the first movie took place in. This actually might be an advantage (Crash going nuts on a rant about how back in his day...)

And last off: No Max Patkin. Although I guess the Chicken could take his spot.

"and bring him back to the majors by teaching him how to throw a knuckleball …"
Nuke should only get as far as Mexico or Japan in his comeback, get pretty well throttled there but pick up some like lessons are realize just how lucky he really was. Maybe Mexico would work better (or Venezuela Winter League) where he gets thrown in with truly unlucky people. Drunken stupor, beaten up, robbed but saved and nursed to health by some very poor family.

I do like the autograph bit and him getting 15 instead of 25.

Robbins was too old to be Nuke in the first place and will be too old for an "old" Nuke.

This is probably a bad idea.

But Robbins is too old to play an "old" Nuke? Do you remember what Charlie Hough looked like, the last five years of his career? Phil Niekro? Robbins, thanks to good genes and quality skin care, looks much younger than those guys did in their early 40s.

No Trey Wilson is a killer for me. Maybe not necessary for this movie, but man, it would be sad to be reminded once again that he's dead.

Edit: and I second the "This is probably a bad idea" sentiment.

Barry Corbin could take over from Trey Wilson and most people wouldn't even notice the difference.

Robbins, thanks to good genes and quality skin care, looks much younger than those guys did in their early 40s.

Well ain't that damning with faint praise. :) I was thinking that you would want a hint of boyish charm left in the Nuke visage. But you could make Nuke really dissipated and it could work. Regardless, this has a much chance of being good as Clay Condrey has of providing a 133 ERA+ in 67 innings.

BTW, my one and only complaint about BD was that Robbins was too old to play Nuke.

On the flip side, Robbins' motion is a lot more believable as a knuckleballer than as a fireballer.

But Robbins is too old to play an "old" Nuke? Do you remember what Charlie Hough looked like, the last five years of his career? Phil Niekro? Robbins, thanks to good genes and quality skin care, looks much younger than those guys did in their early 40s.

If 47 year old Chelcie Ross can play Eddie Harris, Robbins should have no problem playing a knuckleballer.

Millie & Jimmy remain married and start an evangelical revival.

Millie then gets the GOP vice-presidential nomination.

It was a sort of an unrealized career in which we saw glimpses of his greatness."

So much for Annie propelling him to a hall-of-fame career.

Crash and Annie have long split up due to Crash's violent spells from his alcoholism, and he's managing a team in Mexico City. Annie reverted to her old ways and at the age of 64 is still banging 18 year olds, but mainly just the immigrants who work on the tobacco farms, not ballplayers since many of them make too much money these days to bother with her. She's also hooked on painkillers. Jose is a scout for the big league club and runs into Crash at a bar on a trip to Mexico City to scout a young player and brings him back to Durham to try to help Annie get her life back together. Nuke only appears in one brief scene when he sees Crash passed out in an airport, and he's so horrified by the sight of him that he runs away. In the end, Crash dies of liver failure and Annie commits suicide with one of her old albums playing in the background.

I think we can all agree that however it is written the sequel should involve Elijah Dukes in some fashion

Crash: "Dukes, I'm pulling you for a pinch-hitter"
Dukes: "You dead, dog" [throws bat at Crash]

In the end, Crash dies of liver failure and Annie commits suicide with one of her old albums playing in the background.

I never tied Bull Durham to Girl, Interrupted before. Well done.

For one thing, they are well past the optimal time for a sequel. The longer it takes you to make a sequel, the more likely it is to get ripped no matter what the quality. To use an example: If Indiana Jones 4 had been made in the early nineties instead of 2008, it would have a far better IMDB score then it does now. But as time went on, no matter what was made it would have been hated by those who had basically made it all up their head.

Jeez...I don't agree with that at all. I think people ripped Kingdom of the Crystal skull because it's a really lousy movie. Most of the fans that I know were really excited about the sequel and wanted to like it.

Second off, Minor League Baseball is now very different. Durham is in AAA, in a modern stadium. And AAA is quite different from the AAA that Shelton played in (thanks to all the field improvement acts and such) and very different from the A-Ball the first movie took place in. This actually might be an advantage (Crash going nuts on a rant about how back in his day...)

I'm not endorsing the idea of a sequel, but I agree that the changes in the game would be an advantage if anything. Rather than covering the same territory, Shelton would be free to take a fresh look at the minors and how they've changed in the last 20 years.

If 47 year old Chelcie Ross can play Eddie Harris, Robbins should have no problem playing a knuckleballer.

Don't forget 50-year-old Roy Scheider's legendary performance as Billy Young.

I may have asked this before, but why is the movie called Bull Durham? The phrase isn't in the movie and it doesn't reference anything outside the movie that would describe it. It makes as much sense as calling it Davis Crash or something.

why is the movie called Bull Durham?

Presumably after the chewing tobacco of the same name.

Yeah, the fact that Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was lame was a lot more of a problem than the fact that it was 15 years too late.

Millie then gets the GOP vice-presidential nomination.

What kind of gift do you get someone who gets the vice-presidental nomination? Is she registered somewhere?

the good news is Robert Wuhl is still available and willing to work cheap

Jeez...I don't agree with that at all. I think people ripped Kingdom of the Crystal skull because it's a really lousy movie. Most of the fans that I know were really excited about the sequel and wanted to like it

arguable, but in reality which sequel has been made after a long time has passed that wasn't ripped to shreds regardless of the amount that people wanted to like it? It's better to reimage the story than to make an outright sequel. Phantom Menace was torn apart by it's own fans, yet the kids love it and under 20 year olds consider the three new sequels to be better than the originals. But the original fans don't care for it. Same with pretty much any sequel that has had a long gestating time period, the original fans don't usually come back happy.


Of course having Nuke fail in the majors kinda makes the entire first movie useless, all the effort that Crash put into Nuke still failed to make him a major leaguer. Yes it's more realistic portrayal of what happens to a lot of players, but it somewhat invalidates the first movie.

Of course to the ten people that have seen major league three, Robbins has played the veteran finesse pitcher (Doc I believe) and it was a fun bit to see him throwing 70+ "heaters".

now here's something I didn't know - the actress who played Millie, Jenny Robertson, is married to Thomas Lennon of State and Reno 911 fame

Yeah, the fact that Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was lame was a lot more of a problem than the fact that it was 15 years too late.

Don't start a geek war on a BBTF thread. That is all.


I seem to remember that SI had an article on a "where are they now" of the Bull Durham characters. Millie and Jimmy started to run a "700 Club"-style TV show, Annie and Crash had a son named Thurman and Nuke's career went downhill when he met Tommy Lee.

Annie & Crash get married. Annie pops out one kid (named Luke) and then they adopt an African boy (who they call Duke). Since we wouldn't want to promote any stereotypes, Luke is the spaced-out knucklehead while Duke is the well-read, witty one. But they're both baseball phenoms who could have signed huge contracts or gone to any school in the country but have followed Dad to play for Fayetteville State University. Crash's old-school routine won't work anymore so he brings in Nuke in an attempt to reach Luke, meanwhile Duke faces the pressure of whether he can become the first African player in MLB.

It's summer now and Crash is coaching the Fayetteville Swampdogs in the Coastal Plain League with his boys along. Meanwhile, Al Qaeda is hatching a plot to destroy Fort Bragg. Since Robbins and Sarandon hate America, Nuke and Annie are secretly helping Al Qaeda ... until they realize the plan is to blow up the stands at the Swampdogs' Fort Bragg night. They confess to Crash, who's originally annoyed but learns to love the two again, but can they stop Al Qaeda in time?

With Bruce Willis as Crash, Sarandon as Annie, Robbins as Nuke, James Van Der Beek as Luke (the poor kid needs work and he's the same age as Robbins was), some Jamaican dancehall star as Duke (Jamaican, African, America will never know the difference), Billy Bob Thornton as the irascible but lovable owner of the Swampdogs who's always making passes at Annie, Katey Sagal as Fannie who's trying to bone Luke and Duke, Miley Cyrus as Fannie's sidekick Billie, various poorly shaven white guys with bad Arabic accents as Al Qaeda, Orphie the Wonder Dog, and a special appearance by the Steve Miller Band whose "entire repertoire plays like your favorite I-Pod mix with very few songs that you do not know."

In theaters Summer 2009 from Repoz Productions.

[edited to add the last lame joke]

Of course having Nuke fail in the majors kinda makes the entire first movie useless, all the effort that Crash put into Nuke still failed to make him a major leaguer. Yes it's more realistic portrayal of what happens to a lot of players, but it somewhat invalidates the first movie.

Or Nuke makes it, gets to an All-Star game, wins a WS game but the team loses 4-1, has a torn labrum and disintegrates during rehab.

In #24 Walt, are you conflating Road House with Bull Durham and adding an Al Qaeda twist? I confess to not knowing the Luke and Duke reference but I like the names. BBT could be named Vuke, as an obscure homage to Mike Schmidt's backup and late long-time coach of the Phillies.

15. robinred Posted: May 01, 2008 at 03:41 PM (#2765662)
I actually mentioned a BD sequel a awhile back. I see Nuke as Crash's pitching coach, trying to recover from pissing away his money a la Jack Clark, and Annie coming back into Crash's life after a long absence. You set it in AAA, not the majors--that way they could still be in Durham. Crash is in his last year, having never made The Show, and about to retire--again.

***

Crash Davis, the grizzled catcher, "is now managing Durham in Triple A, back with a (major-league) dream alive again," Shelton said. "I think he's kept this wonderful hot relationship with Annie, who probably has the Faulkner Chair in Oxford, Miss.

***

I like mine better.

That quote in #2 is a lot like my pitch. I'll sue, dammit!

in reality which sequel has been made after a long time has passed that wasn't ripped to shreds regardless of the amount that people wanted to like it?

The Two Jakes was good. Not sure what the Tomatometer says.

Skull was undone a bit by too much lame-ola LaBeouf, who was as a hoodlum even less convincing than Robert Hegyes.

"Before Sunset" was a sequel that came out 10 years after the first movie and was if anything better received.

In Bull Durham the specific identity of the big league club isn't revealed, but if we assume it's the Braves (as in real life) then it makes it sort of interesting. Nuke has his cup of coffee in 1988, then is up for good around the All-Star Break 1989. In 1990 he puts up an ERA around 3.50 but goes 7-14, then is involved in a three-way deal that nets the Braves Sid Bream and Rafael Belliard and sends Nuke to Cleveland. He's there a couple of years, in one of which he wins an ERA title and goes 10-16. He then gets traded to Oakland, then on Kansas City, and eventually signs as a free agent with the Baltimore Orioles. When he retires in 2005 he's finished in the top 10 in his league in ERA 11 times and has a career record of 176-240. The film is about his first year as a pitching coach, working for their crusty old manager Crash Davis and trying to shake the "loser" tag that Jack Morris placed on him. With a week left in the season the Bulls are tied for first and have a vital series coming up, but the first place Devil Rays call up Nuke's top two starters just beforehand. In desperation, the Bulls sign and activate Nuke himself to pitch the big game on the last day of the season. Nuke throws a no-hitter... but loses 1-0 on a four-base error by the center fielder.

When he retires in 2005 he's finished in the top 10 in his league in ERA 11 times and has a career record of 176-240.

Wow, talk about a guy who couldn't pitch to the score....

Anyone ever go try to have an adult relationship with their high school sweetheart (not a continuous relationship - one in which you break up and then re-meet years later)?

I don't recommend it.

Nor do I recommend this sequel.

Two Jakes, IMDB score 5.9, Chinatown 8.9.

not sure anyone was clamoring for a before sunrise sequel though. Heck I doubt I could find 10 people in the next 10 hours who have seen either one. (and I'm going to the game tonite)

Nuke throws a no-hitter... but loses 1-0 on a four-base error by the center fielder.

And the center fielder is played by the illegitimate son of Crash Davis from a previous romp with a minor league baseball groupie before his time with Annie. This is hinted at throughout the movie (mannerisms, favourite drinks) but isn't revealed until AFTER Crash consoles the kid for "playing hard, but playing dumb".

arguable, but in reality which sequel has been made after a long time has passed that wasn't ripped to shreds regardless of the amount that people wanted to like it?

Depending on how you define "long time", it took seven years to make "Terminator 2", which is longer than it took to make six Police Academy movies.

This is hinted at throughout the movie (mannerisms, favourite drinks) but isn't revealed until AFTER Crash consoles the kid for "playing hard, but playing dumb".

As Costner walks away after the conversation, the young player hesitantly says: "Hey Dad, do you want to have a catch?"

Depending on how you define "long time", it took seven years to make "Terminator 2", which is longer than it took to make six Police Academy movies.

That is a good example, not a really long time, but long enough to be an example. (of course T3 sucked royal balls)

not sure anyone was clamoring for a before sunrise sequel though. Heck I doubt I could find 10 people in the next 10 hours who have seen either one. (and I'm going to the game tonite)

I definitely had a few friends (and myself) who really liked Before Sunrise and would talk about what probably happened after the movie ended. Though we never specifically talked about the sequel, when we heard about it it was highly anticipated and far surpassed our expectations.

in reality which sequel has been made after a long time has passed that wasn't ripped to shreds regardless of the amount that people wanted to like it?

How about The Color of Money? Or I guess Michael Apted's "Up" series might count.

BTW, when I last watched Bull Durham the first thing I noticed was Nuke's pitch count in his first game. He goes 9 and sets new league records with 18 Ks and 18 BBs. That's 135 pitches at a bare minimum, and more likely something in the 200 range. I'm a pitch count agnostic, but just look at him pitch. I'm not CBW but there's no way those are good, healthy mechanics. The only way he stays in the game a while is if some doctor invents Nuke LaLoosh Surgery and figures out a way to attach cadaver arms to his shoulder every 18 months.

When he retires in 2005 he's finished in the top 10 in his league in ERA 11 times and has a career record of 176-240.

Wow, talk about a guy who couldn't pitch to the score....

There's a Rich Lederer joke in here.

which sequel has been made after a long time has passed that wasn't ripped to shreds regardless of the amount that people wanted to like it?

Rocky Balboa got lots of positive reviews and did pretty good at the box office.

Nuke's pitch count in his first game. He goes 9 and sets new league records with 18 Ks and 18 BBs. That's 135 pitches at a bare minimum, and more likely something in the 200 range.

Didn't the real-life Steve Dalkowski have a game or two like that? Of course one thing I heard said about the original BD was that although it was ostensibly set in the 80's, many aspects of it had more to do with the minors of the 50's.

Rocky Balboa got lots of positive reviews and did pretty good at the box office.

Yes, but it still was miles away from Rocky I. It was only good compared to the other sequels

"Texasville was fairly well received by the critics. It was nowhere near as good a movie as "The Last Picture Show". Pretty much no one knows it exists, but those select few thought it was pretty good. I can't thing of another movie that was so many years (around 20) after the original and had pretty much the same cast and director as the original.

The reason that no sequel to Bull Durham was made within 10 years, was the career arcs of the principal actors. First Costner and then Robbins became too big for the project. Now their careers, like those of the characters they played have come back down to earth. You could make a good little movie out of the sequel, as long as you reign in the ambition and avoid the cliches. I think Shelton could do that. I'm not so sure Costner and Robbins would be willing to go along.

How many years before Ashton Kutcher is ready resurrect the "Dude, Where's My Car? sequel?

In #24 Walt, are you conflating Road House with Bull Durham and adding an Al Qaeda twist? I confess to not knowing the Luke and Duke reference but I like the names. BBT could be named Vuke, as an obscure homage to Mike Schmidt's backup and late long-time coach of the Phillies.

I've never seen Road House but clearly the writer was a genius if it bears any resemblance to my plot.

Luke and Duke have the handy feature that they rhyme with Nuke so that lame-brained Americans will understand the connection (sorry you missed it :-). Same with Fannie/Annie and Billie/Millie.

I forgot to mention that, of course, Orphie will be playing "Swamp" and I'm thinking of making Billy Bob Thornton Annie's husband after Crash (or did she have one before Crash? That would be better ... OK, he's her first husband whether she had a first husband in the original or not). Maybe he got Crash's shot at the majors 30+ years ago ... that's good. Think of Thornton's character as a cross between Jim Bunning and Bob Uecker.

And we're in talks with Erin Andrews' agent.

Is James Earl Jones still alive? Cuz, y'know, we could make him Costner's (I mean Willis's) wise but crusty old bench coach who's always talking about a bunch of obscure old players the kids have never heard of (Aaron, Mays, Ted Williams, guys like that). "I remember this time the Mick was popping some greenies after an off-day bender ..."