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How about top seasons by BB players still in college? Anyone besides Ainge?
Not to mention a World Series winning manager as well. That should be enough to put him past Gibby.
Plus he had that disease named after him.
Of course if this is just a list of the best ten best baseball players who ever stepped onto a basketball court, the rankings make a bit more sense, and I can see Gibson, Winfield, and Gwynn being the top three. But for a combination of baseball and basketball careers, Groat's far and away the most accomplished of the lot. All of the others mentioned either played for minor schools or weren't even the best players on their own teams.
Bo Jackson, without the bad hip, was a All-Star in two professional sports. Stupid congenital diseases.
As to the poster who commented about Frank Howard, I copied this from his Wikipedia Page. "Howard was an All-American in both basketball and baseball at Ohio State, and was drafted by the Philadelphia Warriors of the NBA."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Howard_(baseball_player)
This was written for a fantasy baseball site, so the emphasis was on what these players did as baseball players. I understand people wanting it to be more, though.
Again, I appreciate people who take the time to read and comment. And I welcome more additions like Boudreau.
I'd still take Groat, since even given Boudreau's basketball achievements, they're hardly the equivalent of Groat's Player of the Year, plus his first and second team All-American selections.
Of course if you're going by one season rather than a career, than nothing tops Boudreau's 1948, which may have been the most accomplished all-around baseball season in history. (Maybe not, but it'd be damn close.)
Groat is likely the greatest baseball player equally great at another sport. But probably not as dominant as Jim Brown, arguably the greatest at football and lacrosse.
No question about that, if you don't restrict it to major sports.
Bo Jackson, without the bad hip, was a All-Star in two professional sports. Stupid congenital diseases.
You got that right. And he still might be the best two-major sport star ever, even with the short careers in both of them.
Here's the page I was referring to. Howard was a second team All-American that year. Groat was first team in his senior year, and second team in his junior year. But your mistake is understandable, since whoever wrote Howard's Wiki page is probably a fan of his, and hey, an All-American's an All-American, right?
Well, if you don't restrict it to major sports, doesn't Jim Thorpe have to be the guy? After all, he was able to play football (college and pro), baseball, and basketball, while also winning Olympic gold medals in both the pentathlon and decathlon.
First Team
Player Team
Wilt Chamberlain Kansas
Chet Forte Columbia
Rod Hundley West Virginia
Lennie Rosenbluth North Carolina
Gary Thompson Iowa State
Second Team
Player Team
Elgin Baylor Seattle
Frank Howard Ohio State
Jim Krebs Southern Methodist
Charlie Tyra Louisville
Grady Wallace South Carolina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_NCAA_Men's_Basketball_All-Americans
I will update the article - thanks for the info!
Another good point, since Thorpe's unquestionably one of the all-time football greats, and was at least good enough in baseball and basketball to play it on the big league level. In terms of overall accomplishment in all sports, you'd have to give it to Thorpe. Of course he did have the advantage of playing at a time when seasons didn't overlap as they do today. It's very difficult to play more than one sport at a high level now.
Also, what's the minimum standard for college basketball prowess here? Kenny Lofton was a good player for Arizona, but hardly a star. Mark Hendrickson was a fine college player (if overmatched in the NBA), but has never excelled in MLB action...etc...
He had some pretty good years and a good career.
i was thinking about Dave Winfield, since I knew he played at U Minnesota (and was drafted in the NBA draft). looking at his wiki page, he might not have been good enough to make the cut, but i did find this neat little anecdote i'd never heard before:
10. Dick Groat
9. Tim Stoddard
8. Gene Conley
7. Ron Reed
6. Bob Veale
5. Tony Clark
4. Frank Howard
3. Tony Gwynn
2. Dave Winfield
1. Bob Gibson
What was Tim Stoddard's role in "Big"? His IMDB page lists his only movie credit as a pitcher in "Rookie of the Year".
Who are the greatest college basketball players who played MLB? I would think Ainge would make that list.
Chet Forte, you'll remember, went on to work as the director of "Monday Night Football" for many, many years.
And then went into politics. Elected 3 times. Died of a heart attack running out a triple in a softball game between MPs and the press corps (age 53).
And Brown as a lacrosse player: One truly great season. Best player on an undefeated team. Tied for leading scorer in the nation while playing midfield. Also responsible for a change in the obstruction rules. I think a good way to think of his lacrosse career would be to imagine Lou Gehrig giving up baseball after his 1927 season.
Brown also scored 15 points per game in basketball and had some success in track.
Not anywhere near good enough for this discussion as a baseball player, but I always mention Curtis Pride when this topic comes up - similar to Lofton as a point guard (not as good at O, better at D - albeit against weaker comp <William and Mary>.
Trajan Langdon never did anything in the minors, but played in the Padres system while at Duke.
Ryan Minor was drafted by the 76ers out of Oklahoma - he was a better NBA prospect (again, IMO) than pro baseball.
Chris Young! Young never played in the NBA, but had an offer from Sacramento and was an all-Ivy caliber center at Princeton.
Not sure how good Ron Reed was at college hoops, but - like young - he once made an All-Star team.
I will never forgive him for helping to inflict Howard Cossell on the world.
Frankly I have no idea how good a basketball or baseball player he was
it was actually Roone Arledge who did that--Forte was just along for the ride
another question i hope doesn't insult lacrosse fans: is there enough idiosyncratic skill necessary for the position brown played (and lacrosse in general) that what brown accomplished is truly impressive, or could any athletic football player with reasonable skill dominate the sport? i ask because of the rugby v. football threads that are common on the fark message boards - football fans tend to insist that even average running backs would be among the best rugby players immediately.
Hendrickson (who I did mention @ 21) was quite good in college - check out that 63% from the field as a junior, but was overmatched athletically at the next level.
Old primer had a post from me with stats on loads of guys like this - alas, no more.
Yeah I know but Forte was close enough to Howard to drive a stake through where his heart should have been.
Yeah, I completely missed your earlier mention of him. Sorry about that.
his baseball career? less said the better
EDIT: Ainge lifetime: 220/264/269
Flynn 238/266/294
Don't know what the state of the game was in the late 50s, but I doubt it's too different than it is today. There are sport specific skills. Picking up the ball, passing, catching, retaining possession through contact and shooting. Like a lot of sports, the basics aren't too tough, but getting really good at them is not easy.
It's not that hard to learn to pick up the ball. Doing it at speed with other people trying to disrupt you -- not so easy.
That was Mike Flynn who played basketball for Kentucky (he also played in the NBA/ABA for 3 seasons). Doug Flynn (also a UK man) was 4 inches shorter and, uh, not the hoopster guy. Junior Braddy did play pro baseball and hooped with the Wildcats, but he never advanced far in the minors + was a bench player in college.
Dell Curry (who was a decent baseball prospect) and Muggsy Bogues (who wasn't) both played for the
Charlotte[EDIT: Gastonia] minor league team in a publicity stunt, but that's way far afield now... IIRC, LaBradford Smith could hit 95 MPH with his fastball, but never seriously considered baseball as a career.EDIT: Here's a link to the Bullpen. Larry Doby played in the ABL? Forgot Steve Hamilton.
Kirk Gibson was a first-team All-American in football at Michigan State and an MLB MVP.
Another guy who never made in baseball: Brett Roberts was a stud basketball player at Morehead State (led the nation in scoring) and was a 2nd round pick of the Kings but did not (to my knowledge) pursue a pro career in that sport. He spent 6 years in the Twins org as a pitcher, topping out at AAA.
It's a good thing the writer wrote the piece now, because in ten years the list will look pretty boring.
I went to Syracuse in the late 1980s (the era of the Gait brothers and Tom Marachek) and Jim Brown was still the standard against which all lacrosse players were measured -- those who saw him felt he was much better at lacrosse than he was at football.. arguably better than anybody was at any sport.
The thought of Jim Brown running at me with a stick is truly terrifying.
Played in both World Series & Rose Bowl? (there are 2)
hint--J Robinson is NOT one of the answers
(Robinson, of course, played in the Rose Bowl a whole bunch, just not in the Rose Bowl GAME.)
Hondo not
(Robinson, of course, played in the Rose Bowl a whole bunch, just not in the Rose Bowl GAME.)
you got me there
EDIT: the other guy is also the half answer to ANOTHER trivia question
(which has to be a record for someone this obscure)
MUCH more obscure
Stanford
then Dodgers
good guess tho--he did play FB but at colorado--even played in the NFL
this guy is of the same vintage (i.e. the fiddies)
also one of 2 players to hit 2 pinch hit homers in one world series
the other being...?
Red Sox fans?
but he didn't pitch in the series
the other being...?
Red SoxYankee fans?Boinie Carbo.
EDIT: and that guy from the Braves in 57--ummm Nip Jones?
Duquesne's Ricketts brothers. Tremendous (like All-American) college basketball players but only cups of coffee in the majors. Dave did have a long career as a major league coach.
Also, for college football/major league baseball: Al Martin of course (and, yes, I'm kidding).
EDIT: and that guy from the Braves in 57--ummm Nip Jones?
Nippy. But close enough. Nippy's was a key play in deciding one of the most thrilling World Series games ever, and in fact may have been the turning point of the entire Series.
Nippy also was a key figure in a play that led to a change in the rules.
His apparent home run for the Cardinals was wiped out because the umpire had called a balk on the pitch. It probably cost St. Louis the game and possibly the 1949 pennant, as the Cardinals finished the season one game behind Brooklyn.
The rule -- now Rule 8:05(m) -- was subsequently rewritten to wipe out the balk and let the play stand if the batter reaches base and all runners safely move up at least one base.
But yeah, Bo Jackson is pretty much the modern day freak standard for dual sport athletes. He was one of the most exciting running backs I've ever seen and his athleticism was mindboggling on the baseball field.
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