Jones would also like Beltran, Rollins, and Hamels to get off his lawn. I am sure he will enjoy F-Rod's skypointing the first time he sees it in person.

The NL East may be the best rivalry division in the game now.

The Braves have a post-100 million payroll. How the heck are they small market? At least compared to the Phillies and Mets?

I am sure he will enjoy F-Rod's skypointing the first time he sees it in person.

Ear-hole Wright or Beltran once or twice and he'll knock that #### off.

Pretty good interview. Perhaps Chipper is old-fashioned, but the team did manage to win 14 division championships without anything equivalent to the stuff you've heard from the players Chipper lists. It's just a different style, and one he abhors. Given how resented Hamels was around here for saying what he said, I'm pretty sure Chipper isn't the only person who feels as he does.

I was surprised to read his comments saying that Peavy would be in Atlanta if he wanted to be. I don't think I'd read that before.

It’s Cole Hamels now. It was Jimmy Rollins and Carlos Beltran the past couple of springs.

What did Beltran say? He seems the least likely Met to say something inflammatory. Or interesting. Or at all.

The Braves have a post-100 million payroll.

How do you figure? Depending on how you account for Hampton's salary, they may have been right at $100M in the past, but they aren't anymore. Hampton ($16M '08), Smoltz ($14M), Teixeira ($12.5M, a third of which was paid by the Angels), Glavine ($8M), Kotsay ($7M, a third of which was paid by the Red Sox), and Ohman ($1.6M) are all off the books for 2009.

They've added Javier Vazquez ($11.5M) and Dave Ross ($1.4M). The raises they'll give out to the rest of the team certainly don't make up the difference.

We won for 14 consecutive years, and you never, ever saw any bulletin board material.

I think those two facts somewhat go hand in hand. Chipper should be glad that his division is filled with a bunch of loud-mouthed d-bags.

Perhaps Chipper is old-fashioned, but the team did manage to win 14 division championships without anything equivalent to the stuff you've heard from the players Chipper lists. It's just a different style, and one he abhors. Given how resented Hamels was around here for saying what he said, I'm pretty sure Chipper isn't the only person who feels as he does.

I certainly agree with Chipper's basic point about the difference between those Braves' teams and the shenanigans between the Phillies and the Mets, but let's not overstate it. He's got at least a touch of selective memory in painting the Braves as come kind of choirboys during their run. I don't want to say he's off his Rocker, but . . . well, does that make the point? (Of course, he wasn't long for Atlanta once he embarrassed the organization, either, so there you go.)

What did Beltran say?

Last year, in spring training, he gave kind of a muted version of Rollins's boasts from the year before -- saying that the Mets were the team to beat in '08. If you saw the quotes, they just didn't have the same flair as Rollins pulled off. Beltran just doesn't speak braggart as fluently.

Ear-hole Wright or Beltran once or twice and he'll knock that #### off.

Be a shame to end Chipper's career with a retaliatory pitch to his noggin. Oh well. You gotta do what you gotta do.

9th largest MSA by population, no competition for hundreds of miles in any direction. The world's smallest redneck fiddle is playing a tune for you Chipper

Not to mention being the franchise with the first national television station.

9th largest MSA by population, no competition for hundreds of miles in any direction. The world's smallest redneck fiddle is playing a tune for you Chipper


That's all true, but it's also true that Time Warner and Liberty Media haven't treated the Braves as a big market club. It's gotten better in recent years, but after Turner left, there was a string of years where the Braves lost numerous players. Sheffield, Drew, Glavine, Furcal, Farnsworth, etc. And then there was the Millwood fiasco.

I'm sure it was particularly jarring for Chipper, who was called up to a team that, for the first five-to-seven years of his career, always kept its stars and occasionally imported high-impact talent.

You know, win with class, lose with class.

And knock up Hooters girls with class.

And knock up Hooters girls with class.

Does the "with class" in that sentence modify "Hooters girls" or "knock up"?

Just wondering.

And knock up Hooters girls with class.

End unhappy marriage to "high school sweetheart" with class. Marry mother of your first child with class. Have more kids, raise them in a happy family with class.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to harp on Chipper being unhappy in an ill-advised early marriage and then moving on from it, okay. Whatever makes you feel the most self-righteous.

I haven’t seen a Chip get this involved in other people’s biz since Chip Douglas revolted against Uncle Charley’s Irish seal soup!

Classic Repoz (i.e., I have no clue what this is referring to)--I love it!

The last significant free agent signing the Braves made was either Andres Galarraga in 1997 or Brian Jordan in 1998, so you can forgive us Braves fans for wishing the team would act slightly more like a large market team.

The last significant free agent signing the Braves made was either Andres Galarraga in 1997 or Brian Jordan in 1998, so you can forgive us Braves fans for wishing the team would act slightly more like a large market team.

If there's one team that can use Manny Ramirez, its the Braves. Any reason they're not talking to Boras about him?

Classic Repoz (i.e., I have no clue what this is referring to)--I love it!

Good lord, do I feel old.

Chip, Uncle Charley, and the gang . . . .

Classic Repoz (i.e., I have no clue what this is referring to)--I love it!

That's an easy one - a "My Three Sons" reference.

I liked Bub better than Charley.

Not to mention being the franchise with the first national television station.

The Selig-driven destruction of which correlates pretty well with the Braves' decline.

If there's one team that can use Manny Ramirez, its the Braves. Any reason they're not talking to Boras about him?

1. Defense.
2. Boras.
3. Defense.
4. Boras.

[21] But the Braves start Jeff Francoeur. You're going to need to make up that offense somewhere.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to harp on Chipper being unhappy in an ill-advised early marriage and then moving on from it, okay.

Is this the way they do things in Georgia? If you're unhappily married, you find a cocktail waitress to impregnate, and that makes it all right? Because where I come from, you don't "end unhappy marriage to 'high school sweetheart' with class" by having a baby with another woman out of wedlock. You get divorced.

Chipper is entitled to lead whatever kind of life he wants, and I'm glad he seems to have made a happy family for himself. But he doesn't really need to be lecturing anyone on "class."

That's an easy one - a "My Three Sons" reference.

I was young, but I can recall it when it was still on CBS.

Chipper is entitled to lead whatever kind of life he wants, and I'm glad he seems to have made a happy family for himself. But he doesn't really need to be lecturing anyone on "class."

Yep.

Tom:

One could make the arguement that there is a distinction between baseball etiquette and how one conducts oneself off the field.

That's absolutely true, HW. But that doesn't seem to be the case that Sam is making.

One could make the arguement that there is a distinction between baseball etiquette and how one conducts oneself off the field.

The latter is probably a lot more important.

What's the saying? "Every time you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you."

What's the saying? "Every time you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you."

Didn't Mordecai Brown say that?

Sam:

Between this and "Rear Admiral" comment you really need to call it a day. Good gravy man.........

“Now all the Mets fans can go home and put their Yankees stuff on.”
-Larry "Chipper" Jones, 1999

"Woo-hoo! I haven’t seen a Chip get this involved in other people’s biz since Chip Douglas revolted against Uncle Charley’s Irish seal soup!"

Actually, the last chip I saw get this involved was the Lay's potato chip Bert Lahr (for you youngsters - he was the cowardly lion in Wizard of Oz) was holding when he looked into the camera and said, "I bet you cant eat just one!"

That commercial was probably filmed just about the same time Uncle Charley was tellin' Steve that the kids just won't listen and eat their Seal soup.

So it's not that they can't compete but they won't compete

I don't blame any team for staying away from free agents right now since team revenues could plummet over the next several years but I'm confident that Braves ownership made pretty good coin through the '00s and the fact that they opted to bank it and not spend it on player salaries doesn't give anyone in the organization, in this case a player, grounds to complain about the system

But the Braves start Jeff Francoeur. You're going to need to make up that offense somewhere.

I don't disagree with that statement, I just answered the question posed. The Braves are not involved with the Manny Ramirez bidding because he plays bad defense and his agent is a schmuck who's asking for a gazillion dollars over five years. If Boras comes back to reality - not likely, LA is going to eventually cave and overpay for another free agent - the Braves might be interested. But they're not going to dump 20+ mil a year over five years into a guy that needed to be a DH five years ago. They're not an AL team after all.

Is this the way they do things in Georgia? If you're unhappily married, you find a cocktail waitress to impregnate, and that makes it all right?

Nah. In Georgia we'd just shoot the harpy and move on. Chipper's from Florida. They're weird down there.

And again, if you want to feel self-righteous about your moral superiority against a lug-nut twenty-something that got trapped in a bad relationship and then compounded it by not wearing a raincoat when he went out sporting, okay. Whatev. But if you're going to run in those holier-than-thou circles you probably want to keep a list of professional athletes who do live up to your standards rather than a list of those who don't. You could probably count the number of major leaguers who aren't tapping strange when they're on the road on one hand.

“Now all the Mets fans can go home and put their Yankees stuff on.” - Larry "Chipper" Jones, 1999

Which they all promptly did. You know. For the record.

Which they all promptly did. You know. For the record.

Um. Sam? You know I like the back and forth with you, almost as much as Dial does. But there are lines you don't need to cross. I don't give a damn who Chipper's chippy is. My own view is . . . hey, you divorce the wife before you go sleeping with the stripper or the Hooters girl or the gal in the front row. Or hell, the guy in the front row; goodness knows I don't care. But that's my personal view. If Chipper got the steps backwards, I'm pretty much of the opinion it's his business, not mine.

But don't you -- or your frail, old little third baseman -- go accusing me of putting on some damn Yankees' stuff. I never have. I never will. I wouldn't set foot in that rat trap of a stadium until it was for the purpose of seeing Tom Seaver beat those SOBs for his 300th. That crap is fighting words, pal. And it is way, way uglier than Jimmy Rollins and his tired little act.

But don't you -- or your frail, old little third baseman -- go accusing me of putting on some damn Yankees' stuff. I never have. I never will. I wouldn't set foot in that rat trap of a stadium until it was for the purpose of seeing Tom Seaver beat those SOBs for his 300th. That crap is fighting words, pal. And it is way, way uglier than Jimmy Rollins and his tired little act.

Meh. All of you New Yorkers look the same to me.

And again, if you want to feel self-righteous about your moral superiority against a lug-nut twenty-something that got trapped in a bad relationship and then compounded it by not wearing a raincoat when he went out sporting, okay. Whatev.

I'll do that.

And if you want to salute the integrity of some shlub who practiced a Kevin Federline level of serial impregnation just because he helped your favorite baseball team win some games, be my guest.

Chipper being a douche, what a shock. Someone should throw at his head.

I know it's been 16 years since Maddux bolted Chicago for Atlanta, but I don't want to hear about how the Braves can't sign big-name free agents. Maybe in another decade or so.

And yes, I realize Maddux's departure was as much a result of Larry Himes being a buffoon as anything else...

I don't want to hear about how the Braves can't sign big-name free agents.

Frankly, I don't want to hear about how any team can't afford big-name free agents. Any team could compete in the free agent market if they really wanted to.

If an ownership group was really in such financial dire straits that they couldn't afford to pay market rates for players (and I really, really doubt this is the case), they should get out of this business.

And if you want to salute the integrity of some shlub who practiced a Kevin Federline level of serial impregnation just because he helped your favorite baseball team win some games, be my guest.

You misunderstand me. Chipper's contributions to Braves baseball have nothing to do with it. I just find it a bit weird when people say "Oh my God! This testosterone soaked professional athlete behaved like a testosterone soaked professional athlete!" and then act all surprised and ####. I'm just not all morally agog at the notion that youngish, hormone filled men often times run around checking every slice that saunters by. It's what the primate does. I guess you could feasibly prefer a world where every baseball player is Paul Byrd but then you'd be stuck watching a league of Paul Byrds, and I'm not sure I see the fun in that.

If an ownership group was really in such financial dire straits that they couldn't afford to pay market rates for players (and I really, really doubt this is the case), they should get out of this business.

Yeah, that 162nd match up of Boston-New York is sure to draw a large TV rating in the northeast.

I think all of the small market owners should hire Pinkertons and send them to NY/Tampa. I'll not rest until every Steinbrenner is strung up like Mussolini.

If Jake wanted to play in Atlanta, Jake would be in Atlanta. Jake is in control of this whole thing. There was a deal in place, and Jake didn't want to play here. So Jake's not playing here. Jake wanted to play in Chicago

I didn't mean to suggest that the Braves can't sign free agents, but rather for whatever reason that they haven't. Hopefully this will change in the future.

I'm just not all morally agog at the notion that youngish, hormone filled men often times run around checking every slice that saunters by.

I'm not shocked, either; but I do find it a bit hard to swallow a lecture on "class" from such a person, and I imagine that the Mets and Phillies feel the same way.

Yeah, that 162nd match up of Boston-New York is sure to draw a large TV rating in the northeast.

Nonsense.

If the other ownership groups don't bid on big-name free agents, it's because they choose not to, not because they can't. They're comfortable making a profit running the team just the way they are, and winning is secondary to that goal.

I'm not shocked, either; but I do find it a bit hard to swallow a lecture on "class" from such a person, and I imagine that the Mets and Phillies feel the same way.

If they're Mets or Phillies fans they clearly need someone to lecture them on class. Chipper's just trying to fill a niche in the market. (Also, I'm not sure your correct in reading Chipper's lecture as directed at fans. He was actually lecturing Rollins/Beltran/etc.)

Jones would also like Beltran, Rollins, and Hamels to get off his lawn.

Can we stop calling him Chipper now and go with Larry?

Not in a taunting, Met fan way (Larry! Larry! Larry!) but just out of recognition that Chipper is a kid's name, and Jones ain't a kid anymore.

Actually, it's more of a parakeet's name.

If the other ownership groups don't bid on big-name free agents, it's because they choose not to, not because they can't.

Right. There's absolutely no difference between market conditions in New York, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, Pittsburgh and Kansas City. Every team plays under the exact same constraints and incentives. The entire concept of micro-economics is a ruse.

Alternately, you could take the sophomore level course.

If the other ownership groups don't bid on big-name free agents, it's because they choose not to, not because they can't

Because teams like San Diego could certainly afford CC Sabathia, right? wouldn't hamper their operations one bit. gotcha.

I'm just not all morally agog at the notion that youngish, hormone filled men often times run around checking every slice that saunters by.

That's fine. But the flipside is that there is also no reason to be ethically and professionally agog at guys talking a little smack to reporters, or gesticulating if they do something exciting on the field, or jumping up and down on the mound or whatever. This line from the the story, attributed to Jones and directed at some of the Mets and Phillies:

Just keep your mouth shut and go play your game.

Could also be applied to him. He could have said, "These teams have been kicking our asses the last couple of years, so they can talk if they want. We should worry about ourselves." Instead, he chose to pop off and tell other guys how to act.

But, like I said, it is all good--a little bad blood makes for good baseball.

Did Chipper not notice the Braves 5/80M+ offer for Burnett?

Did Chipper not notice the Braves 5/80M+ offer for Burnett?

Sure but look at how much the Yankees beat that by!

Right. There's absolutely no difference between market conditions in New York, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, Pittsburgh and Kansas City. Every team plays under the exact same constraints and incentives. The entire concept of micro-economics is a ruse.

Alternately, you could take the sophomore level course.

You're citing Kansas City, a team that recently handed out $91 million in contracts to two mediocrities, Jose Guillen and Gil Meche? Perhaps if they hadn't done that, they'd be in a better position to compete for the actual star players who hit the market. Nevertheless, star players pay for themselves.

To the extent there is a problem, it's a "Yankees vs. everyone else" problem, given that the Yankees are moving into a new stadium while receiving public subsidies.

If a bus hits Chipper tomorrow is he a first ballot HoFer based upon his current stats?
I say yes, but I wonder what the blog world thinks.

That's fine. But the flipside is that there is also no reason to be ethically and professionally agog at guys talking a little smack to reporters, or gesticulating if they do something exciting on the field, or jumping up and down on the mound or whatever.

Not exactly. You're failing to adjust the mores to the context. Sleeping around doesn't break any longstanding mores *of the game of baseball*, either written or unwritten. In fact it's just par for the course. Showing up opponents *does* break longstanding mores of the game, at least as far as some of the "old school" folks are concerned. You err in conflating your moral outrage at infidelity - not a more shared within the smaller baseball world - with Chipper's disdain for disrespecting the game. You can't merge those two moral system without doing some sort of adjustment.

You're citing Kansas City, a team that recently handed out $91 million in contracts to two mediocrities, Jose Guillen and Gil Meche? Perhaps if they hadn't done that, they'd be in a better position to compete for the actual star players who hit the market.

The market inequities between major markets like LA and NYC don't necessarily show up in the ability to sign a free agent here or there, but rather in the ability to eat that sunk cost and build over it when one of those signings goes wrong. In Kansas City Gil Meche is an albatross. In Atlanta Mike Hampton (even with FL and Denver paying half his salary) is an anvil on the ankle. In NY Carl Pavano is just a cute little joke.

Most ML teams can afford to buy a free agent here or there. That in no way makes the statement "If an ownership group was really in such financial dire straits that they couldn't afford to pay market rates for players (and I really, really doubt this is the case), they should get out of this business" and it's implication that the only unevenness in the free agent market is will and intent any less mouth-breathingly idiotic.

Yes. Central and often the best player on a highly successful team.

Very definition of a HOF player. First ballot.

If a bus hits Chipper tomorrow is he a first ballot HoFer based upon his current stats?

That was an interesting debate three years ago. Today? Not so much. Chipper's a lock for the HOF.

Not exactly. You're failing to adjust the mores to the context. Sleeping around doesn't break any longstanding mores *of the game of baseball*, either written or unwritten. In fact it's just par for the course. Showing up opponents *does* break longstanding mores of the game, at least as far as some of the "old school" folks are concerned. You err in conflating your moral outrage at infidelity - not a more shared within the smaller baseball world - with Chipper's disdain for disrespecting the game. You can't merge those two moral system without doing some sort of adjustment.

I didn't "err." It was already discussed, so I didn't re-hash it. The disrespecting the game thing is something I personally find tiresome, but you should note I didn't bring up the infidelity issue per se except as a "flipside." My points are 1) that if Jones' code is "shut up and play" then one could say he should do that, too, instead of popping off about how other guys pop off, and 2) that the "context" thing could easily be turned the other way. You seem to be assuming that the "mores of the game" trump the other issues, which is just as subjective as going the other direction with it.

And I have no "moral outrage at infidelity." You are conflating me with other posters, so to speak. I have no outrage here at all.

EDIT: I also said "ethically and professionally agog" which was my way of making the distinction.

1) HOF lock, as HW said. A truly great player who most people underrate.
2) He's always conducted himself like an ol school pro on the field.
3) He failed to live up to some peoples high moral standards in his private life while in his early 20's. Feel free to denigrate Chipper forever and ignore whatever he says as the words of a redneck hillbilly.
4) As Sam H. said: whatever. Enjoy your high horse.

Chipper's retirement game (whenever the hell that might be) in New Shea will be fun. And I actually mean that optimistically.

Sure but look at how much the Yankees beat that by!

Sarcasm, I assume, since they only beat it by about $5M.

3) He failed to live up to some peoples high moral standards in his private life while in his early 20's. Feel free to denigrate Chipper forever and ignore whatever he says as the words of a redneck hillbilly.
4) As Sam H. said: whatever. Enjoy your high horse.

I honestly don't care what he does off the field, but he shouldn't pretend that he's Sir Galahad either.

In Kansas City Gil Meche is an albatross

He's been pretty good, no?

He's been pretty good, no?

I honestly don't know. As a baseball fan, I don't watch the AL. With that said, the point still stands. If KC buys two stellar free agents and both work out perfectly they still have to produce the rest of their team on a budget. The northeastern corridor teams don't have to live within those means. That's the point.

Sarcasm, I assume, since they only beat it by about $5M.

You assume correctly.

I honestly don't care what he does off the field,

Me either, but it's funny how knocking up a hooker while married to someone else somehow shows he's a great guy.

I'm just not all morally agog at the notion that youngish, hormone filled men often times run around checking every slice that saunters by. It's what the primate does.

Speak for yourself, robo-stud. Or did you mean the non-BBTF form of primate?

2) He's always conducted himself like an ol school pro on the field.

Sure. And some people may feel that is not really a sign of great character and may not think it trumps what he does off the field. Steve Garvey was "classy" on the field, too.

I don't really feel strongly about it one way or the other, but when you start telling people how to act, as Jones is a little bit here, you are going to hear about any flaws in your own behavior.

Feel free to denigrate Chipper forever and ignore whatever he says as the words of a redneck hillbilly.

This is part of the reason it's a rivalry--people project personal stuff onto it. Happens in all good rivalries. Phillies/Mets as well.

Me either, but it's funny how knocking up a hooker while married to someone else somehow shows he's a great guy.

What color is the sky in your world?

If Jake wanted to play in Atlanta, Jake would be in Atlanta. Jake is in control of this whole thing. There was a deal in place, and Jake didn't want to play here. So Jake's not playing here. Jake wanted to play in Chicago

Which explains Peavy's current status as a member of a Chicago team's roster.

I honestly don't care what he does off the field, but he shouldn't pretend that he's Sir Galahad either.

"Well, I suppose I could stay a BIT longer..."

What color is the sky in your world?


HIS world?

14. Sam Hutcheson Posted: January 02, 2009 at 05:00 PM (#3042257)

End unhappy marriage to "high school sweetheart" with class. Marry mother of your first child with class.


Sam, touting Chipper's behavior as you did here was a fairy tale. You were taken to task. Period.

Son, I haven't been taken to task in 20 years. I'll let you know if you ever score a point.

This is part of the reason it's a rivalry--people project personal stuff onto it

Son, I haven't been taken to task in 20 years. I'll let you know if you ever score a point.


***

The market inequities between major markets like LA and NYC don't necessarily show up in the ability to sign a free agent here or there, but rather in the ability to eat that sunk cost and build over it when one of those signings goes wrong. In Kansas City Gil Meche is an albatross. In Atlanta Mike Hampton (even with FL and Denver paying half his salary) is an anvil on the ankle. In NY Carl Pavano is just a cute little joke.

The only free agents teams should be paying big money to are the stars -- who pay for themselves. If Kansas City is offering $55 million contracts to the Gil Meches of the world, they're doing something seriously wrong. Tampa Bay just beat out Boston and New York, and went to the World Series on a $43 million opening day payroll. The Royals had a higher payroll than that in each of the last three seasons.

Signing lower- and middle- tier free agents for big money is a loser's strategy, and everyone can afford to sign the stars.

Tampa Bay just beat out Boston and New York, and went to the World Series on a $43 million opening day payroll.

And in three years they'll be losing their impact players to New York and Boston in free agency.

"Me either, but it's funny how knocking up a hooker while married to someone else somehow shows he's a great guy."

Hooker? I thought it was a Hooters girl. Is there a special menu I didn't know about?

Hooker? I thought it was a Hooters girl.

Close enough.

I honestly don't care what he does off the field, but he shouldn't pretend that he's Sir Galahad either.

Didn't Galahad have an affair with married woman?

And in three years they'll be losing their impact players to New York and Boston in free agency.

Would you please stop repeating these kinds of myths? Teams have been locking up their young players through the players' free agency seasons for years now. Tampa Bay just signed Scott Kazmir to an extension which keeps him under club control for another four years. They did something similar with Carl Crawford in 2005, and have club options on him for 2009 and 2010 -- past the point at which he could have become a free agent. They signed James Shields to an extension a year ago that keeps him under club control through the 2014 season. They signed Evan Longoria to an extension last year that keeps him under club control through the 2016 season.

Your above statement is particularly humorous in light of the fact that one of their impact players, Carlos Pena, came to them after being discarded by New York and Boston. And last year Tampa Bay locked him up through 2010, following his monster season.

What you've failed to notice is that fewer players are hitting the free agency market now. Which means that there's less of an opportunity for New York and Boston to snatch up all the impact players in free agency, even if that was happening in the first place, which it wasn't.

What you've failed to notice is that fewer players are hitting the free agency market now.

Adam Dunn, Jason Giambi, Pat Burrell, and Bobby Abreu are all very excited by this development.

Didn't Galahad have an affair with married woman?

Nope. Galahad was chaste - a virgin all his life (the wuss). You're thinking of Lancelot.

Nope. Galahad was chaste - a virgin all his life (the wuss). You're thinking of Lancelot.

That's why Galahad could find the grail, and Lancelot could not.

I still don't understand how Indiana Jones found it, though.

Nope. Galahad was chaste - a virgin all his life (the wuss). You're thinking of Lancelot.

Ah.

81. AJM Welcomes Our New K-Rod Overlord Posted: January 02, 2009 at 10:07 PM (#3042430)
Hooker? I thought it was a Hooters girl.

Close enough.

Um, no. What is this, Deadspin? Boo.


76. Sam Hutcheson Posted: January 02, 2009 at 08:54 PM (#3042403)
Son, I haven't been taken to task in 20 years. I'll let you know if you ever score a point.

Well, pops (and unless you're in your VERY late 50's, at best, neither that nor your "son" is applicable) I wasn't the one who originally - and rightfully - called you on it, so you are making no sense.

Chipper's behavior leaving his marriage was neither actionable nor unusual, however it wasn't even in the same ballpark as behaving with class. If me noting the incongruity of that direct assertion of yours rings false, please feel free to explain how. Also feel free to count up the points to yourself later, as I'm indifferent.

Hooker? I thought it was a Hooters girl.

Close enough.

Suppose they both taste like chicken...

I really couldn't care less about Chipper's personal life. Haven't we been burned by the sanctimonious Garveys and Clemenses enough to stop talking about this stuff? The man is, to me anyway, a definite first-ballot HOFer and top 5 all time third basemen. And that's what I'll remember (plus heartbreak Met losses caused by him) when I think of Jones.

And Uncle Charley was one of the unfunniest sitcom characters of all time. Right up there with Vera, Phyllis, Howard Sprague and Potsie.

Can we stop calling him Chipper now and go with Larry?

Not in a taunting, Met fan way (Larry! Larry! Larry!) but just out of recognition that Chipper is a kid's name, and Jones ain't a kid anymore.

Does that mean we should call Yogi, Larry as well?

Love Chipper on the field. One of the best in the Braves NL dominance era. That team was so fun to watch even if I knew it would end too early every year. But after what that team spent on winning then... Larry, STFU.

If there's one team that can use Manny Ramirez, its the Braves. Any reason they're not talking to Boras about him?

1. Defense.
2. Boras.
3. Defense.
4. Boras.

And also, Manny seems to me like the kind of player that Bobby Cox would just rather do without, especially after what happened in Boston this year.

Chipper is entitled to lead whatever kind of life he wants, and I'm glad he seems to have made a happy family for himself. But he doesn't really need to be lecturing anyone on "class."

Dude, let it go. It was over a decade ago, and the guy appears to have grown up a lot since then, admitted his mistakes, and tried to live a better life since. I can understand if the former spouse finds it unforgivable, but for the rest of us maybe we can accept that people can do better over time after they make a mistake.

I hope that as you age you are fortunate enough to not always be defined by the mistakes you made in your youth.

If having an affair outside of marriage precludes discussion of class forever, then our political leadership can just shut up for the millenium now, especially one ex-president who seems to revel in finger-wagging and the high moral ground. Messing around isn't right, but it also isn't a lifetime ban on comment on matters.

Sam-I don't know who you are, but right-on my friend.

By the way, you guys throw the term red-neck around as if it isn't an offensive term. I assume it relates to being from and raised in the south. I thought derogatory names based on characteristics from birth are not appropriate, or did I miss that memo?

It's not that he messed around. Lots of people do that. It's that he knocked up a cocktail waitress in a jiggle joint and then walked out on his wife. There are classy ways to end a marriage, and that ain't one. If you want to cheat and still be "classy", then use some ####### discretion.

As for "redneck" being derogatory, yeah, that's kind of the point. I don't see any of it being a function of inborn traits, though, unless a genetic predisposition for big trucks, guns, shitty music, Cheez Wiz, and women with big hair counts as inborn. It's not even a regional discriminator - we have plenty of rednecks right here in PA.

As for "redneck" being derogatory, yeah, that's kind of the point. I don't see any of it being a function of inborn traits, though, unless a genetic predisposition for big trucks, guns, shitty music, Cheez Wiz, and women with big hair counts as inborn. It's not even a regional discriminator - we have plenty of rednecks right here in PA.

Spot on. Not all (or even most) rednecks are southerners, and not all (or even most) southerners are rednecks.

There are a lot of supposed origins of the term 'redneck', but one I've heard taught has to do with the West Virginia miners' union march to the Battle of Blair Mountain in the 1920's, when they wore red bandanas around their necks to distinguish themselves.

As far as this whole thing about Chipper, my only problem with it is Sam's statement in #14 saying it was the definition of class. That's all. I don't think it has any bearing on his baseball or anything, but there was no baseball mentioned in that post, and I was responding specifically to that post. It was in fact Sam's continued righteousness on the matter that finally led me to comment on it a full 60 posts later. He wants to stick by it, that's cool, but it doesn't seem to be something you'd define that way if it happened to your daughter or someone you knew.

There are a lot of supposed origins of the term 'redneck', but one I've heard taught has to do with the West Virginia miners' union march to the Battle of Blair Mountain in the 1920's, when they wore red bandanas around their necks to distinguish themselves.

Sounds quite farfetched. I always assumed it referenced the sunburn of manual laborers, as opposed to the lily-white slave-owning gentlefolks.

Would you please stop repeating these kinds of myths?

Probably not. Even if I'm off on the details, I'm usually right in the generalities. And it seems to get you all tweaked up so there's entertainment in that too. If TB managed to pull a Cleveland and lock up their primary talent through arbitration, good for them. That still doesn't change the fact that in order to compete while playing in the Tampa market the Devil Rays had to endure a decade of futility (the latter half with management smart enough to draft well), find Carlos Pena on the trash heap and get lucky on him turning it around for them and then dump ALL of their assets into extending their young stars just to keep the sharks from coming in and gobbling them up at first sight. You get that sort of convergence of intelligence, skill and luck what, once every 20 years? Tampa's the first team to pull it off since Cleveland in the early '90s.

In the interim the northeastern corridor and southern California just buy whatever suits them in any given year.

That's not equal market position, and you damned well know it.

It's not that he messed around. Lots of people do that. It's that he knocked up a cocktail waitress in a jiggle joint and then walked out on his wife. There are classy ways to end a marriage, and that ain't one. If you want to cheat and still be "classy", then use some ####### discretion.

Wow. Just, wow. So the problem you have isn't the infidelity, it's the arena he chose his infidelity from and his getting caught. That's...just wow. It's an interesting moral perspective I suppose. Do you extend this same sort of "just be discrete" moral logic to pedophiles? (Oh, and isn't it a bit hyperbolic to call Hooters a "jiggle joint?" It's not five star cuisine certainly, but it's not like they're pole dancing either. Women in tight shirts bring you beer and wings, exchanging a bit of harmless titillation for a percentage point or two on the tip. In most places we call this "the wait-staff industry.")

There are a lot of supposed origins of the term 'redneck', but one I've heard taught has to do with the West Virginia miners' union march to the Battle of Blair Mountain in the 1920's, when they wore red bandanas around their necks to distinguish themselves.

During the Protectorate Oliver Cromwell enjoyed attacking, killing and selling into slavery Irish and Scot-Irish Catholics (and a few English Catholics too, but mostly he just killed them.) The slaves were sold to plantations in South America and the Caribbean. Transplant pale, mist-dwelling Celts to the tropics and put them to work on plantations and their necks burn red...

This has gone on far longer than warranted already, but I just want to say I find this whole notion that we're not supposed to make fun of ballplayers' foibles to be just bizarre. Not only bizarre, but violated by pretty much everyone here. People still mock Mike Hampton for saying that Colorado has good schools. People still mock Jose Cardenal for getting his eyelid stuck open. People still mock Pascual Perez for getting lost on the way to his start. People still mock Chris Truby for something he had nothing to do with.

If Chipper Jones doesn't want to be made fun of, he shouldn't have gone into a profession that depends on millions of people like me paying to watch him perform. Part of the reason I follow baseball is because of the personalities and stories involved, whether they're heroic or (more commonly) hilariously inapt. Maybe it's unfair and immature for me to make jokes about the latter group, but I can live with that.

And Colin, I'd suggest you save some of your "grow up" sentiments for people who defend destructive, trailer-trash behavior as classy for no reason other than that the perpetrator plays for their favorite baseball team.