No offense, but ::flips off you::

If they re-sign, it needs to be for one year. Two years max. Varitek will be 37 next year and has played over nearly 10,000 innings at catcher in the majors. If the Red Sox give him a deal like the Yankees gave Posada ($52M/4yr), it will obviously not end well...

The four year deal they gave Varitek has ended up being much better value than I had predicted, but oldish catchers certainly have a tendency to fall off a cliff. I'm not sure who else is on the market (Johjima?), but if there are any other options I'd be extremely hesitant to resign him even for a single year.

He keeps charts on every Red Sox pitcher and studies scouting reports and video before each game. He picks the brains of scouts, coaches and anyone he thinks can help with that day’s game.

And that makes him different from most other catchers how?

If the Red Sox give him a deal like the Yankees gave Posada ($52M/4yr), it will obviously not end well...

SHouldn't that be - "it will obviously not start well..." The end will be whole lot more hideous than "not well".

But I'd guess he will re-sign for a short term deal that while not terribly payroll efficient it won't be problematic in the grand scheme of things.

And that makes him different from most other catchers how?

Hard to say, of course, but the extent that these things are mentioned about Varitek and not other catchers at least makes it possible (if not likely) that he does those things significantly more than most other catchers.

I'm not sure who else is on the market (Johjima?), but if there are any other options I'd be extremely hesitant to resign him even for a single year.

How about Pudge? He's got a 103 OPS+ this season and his defense is still very good. He has always hit for average and can draw a respectable amount of walks when he wants to.

One site gives me this list for Catchers:

Rod Barajas (33)
Michael Barrett (32)
Johnny Estrada (33)
Jason Kendall (35) - club option for '09; vests with 110 games played in '08
Paul Lo Duca (37)
Miguel Olivo (30) - $2.7MM club option for '09 with a $0.1MM buyout
Ivan Rodriguez (37)
David Ross (32)
Jason Varitek (37)
Gregg Zaun (38)

Pudge obviously wouldn't be the worse choice--espcially if it's between one year of him and 3 or more of Varitek--but adding a 38 year old catcher, even a different one--seems like an iffy move. If they really don't want to keep the Varitek, why not just give George Kottaras a shot?

Because Kottaras may be lucky to hit .210. He has decent secondary skills granted but the Sox have been concerned about his defense-the fact that he hasn't even gotten so much as a thimble of coffee is probably reflective of the confidence they have in him.

The Sox do have another AAA catcher, Dusty Brown, who currently has a .840 OPS, but is 26 years old. Unless they can pry away Mauer from the Twins I don't know who they could get who would be championship quality. They don't necessarily need a star C tho, given the rest of their lineup; most major-league teams don't have a C who has a 100+ OPS+.

I guess they don't like his defense enough, RB. Dusty Brown is a major league hitter too (for a catcher) but his defense isn't nearly as good as Cash's so...

It still baffles me why Jonathan Egan just up and quit while he was still so young.

I think they've (not to mention the rest of us here...) determined that Kottaras' defense is really suspect, and there have been reports that pitchers really don't like throwing to him.

Depending on the $ involved (and how much Boras feels like a game of Brinksmanship over this contract) I'm not sure the upgrade for anyone on that list is worth the shake up to the staff and clubhouse. I'd bring Tek back on a 1-2 yr deal, with the stated intent that he's there to help facilitate the transition to the next long term catcher (when he's discovered). I don't think it's either Brown or Kottaras, but maybe Wagner earns a call up by the end of '09 and starts playing half the games in '10?

Hard to say, of course, but the extent that these things are mentioned about Varitek and not other catchers at least makes it possible (if not likely) that he does those things significantly more than most other catchers.

Or that he sucks so much offensively and defensively (he's legitimately terrible defensively) that they have to find something nice to say about him to justify his playing time. It was like when the Twins kept playing Juan Castro at short. He was so terrible when hitting that the media/company line just kept repeating that he was such a great defensive player with sure hands (they loved those hands because his range was crap, too!).

Just repeat some characteristic over and over again that really doesn't make someone particularly special and expect the masses to soak it up.

The Sox do have another AAA catcher, Dusty Brown, who currently has a .840 OPS, but is 26 years old. Unless they can pry away Mauer from the Twins I don't know who they could get who would be championship quality.

I know this is just a joke, but still: #### you.

He doesn't such defensively, Will. He doesn't throw quite as well as he used to but he still does all the other stuff well.

His bat has noticeably slowed, however. How do you get batspeed back?

His bat has noticeably slowed, however. How do you get batspeed back?

Gee, kevin, I have NO IDEA HOW SOMEONE MIGHT DO THAT. It would have to be, I dunno, some kind of MAGIC POTION or something.

But if Varitek does so, I'll expect you to chime in somewhere.

He doesn't such defensively, Will. He doesn't throw quite as well as he used to but he still does all the other stuff well.

Maybe I'm spoiled because I get to watch Joe Mauer almost everyday, but every time I watch Varitek defensively I'm left extremely underwhelmed. (And to be fair, I've watched a whole lot more baseball games in my lifetime without Joe Mauer behind the plate than with him back there)

Gee, kevin, I have NO IDEA HOW SOMEONE MIGHT DO THAT. It would have to be, I dunno, some kind of MAGIC POTION or something.

OK. You got me there, Lassus.

I think it was a throwaway comment, but the idea of the Sox, or anyone, prying Mauer away from the Twins is pretty funny. What kind of package, realistically, would be necessary to do so? Mauer is one of the most valuable commodities in baseball; I think Pedroia + Lester + other good prospect is where the discussion would have to start...

Will, he's got good hands, calls a pretty good game, blocks the plate extremely well, is quite durable and hustles like a bat out of hell.

I long for the .370/.480 Varitek, however.

It would have to be two very good established players who fill critical needs for the Twins, at the very least.

Or, going the prospect rout, an A and 2 B+ prospects who are MLB-ready or will be within a year.

Going the prospect rout, the Twins would ask for one of either Buchholz or Bowden, Lowrie and somebody like Anderson or Reddick, provided they were comfortable with a catcher they already had.

That could be a truly great haul for the Twins. I don't think I'd do it if I were the Sox. That's an awful lot of talent.

But that's something like what they wanted for Santana and I think Mauer is a hotter property than Santana was so I don't think they'll go for it.

Keep dreaming on Mauer. That's the prospect haul the Twins were considering for one year of Santana. Mauer's signed to 2010, plus he's a Minnesota boy. I think he'll be a career Twin, they'll trade everyone else if needed in order to keep Joe.

Given Mauer's injury history and his offensive skill set, which is truly special, isn't he bound to change positions very soon? Having him catch is taking his bat out of the line-up.

By the way, Chris Iannetta, who probably will be untouchable by the end of this year, is becoming quite the valuable catcher.

What about bringing Kelly Shoppach back from Cleveland? Granted, he's getting lots of playing time now due to Victor Martinez' injury, but his long term outlook is as Victor's back-up. Not so much this season for the Sox, but for next year.

Chris Iannetta's untouchable now. He's in that group with Soto and Martin and McCann, the NL's exciting young catchers. Which means, by the way, that Yorvit Torrealba is available for the asking.

Given Mauer's injury history and his offensive skill set, which is truly special, isn't he bound to change positions very soon? Having him catch is taking his bat out of the line-up.

Often times in the Twin Cities, they suggest that Mauer gets hurt too much as a catcher.

Is Mauer's injury history abnormal for a catcher? Here are his games played by year, from baseballreference.com:

2004 - 35
2005 - 131
2006 - 140
2007 - 109
2008 - 86

His first year was his big injury year. He also missed a significant number of games in 2007. Some of his games are DH games, but I think that we all would agree that occasionally sending Mauer out as DH is a good idea.

For comparison, let's look at Jason Varitek, as he is the subject of this thread:

1997 - 1
1998 - 86
1999 - 144
2000 - 139
2001 - 51
2002 - 132
2003 - 142
2004 - 137
2005 - 133
2006 - 103
2007 - 131
2008 - 79

Is Varitek a bad comparison? How about we look at Ivan Rodriguez:

1991 - 88
1992 - 123
1993 - 137
1994 - 99
1995 - 130
1996 - 153 (!)
1997 - 150 (!)
1998 - 145
1999 - 144
2000 - 91
2001 - 111
2002 - 108
2003 - 144
2004 - 135
2005 - 129
2006 - 136
2007 - 129
2008 - 75


Rodriguez is a beast, having a couple of seasons over 150 games played.

But looking at these guys, what in Mauer's history suggests an abnormal injury risk? All of these other guys have a few years where they have caught less than 100 games. This is probably a pretty typical thing when you are a catcher (or any other MLB player).

Or at least the local columnists used to say that he was hurt too often when I lived in Minnesota. I left about 3 years ago, so they may have changed their tune.

This is probably a pretty typical thing when you are a catcher (or any other MLB player).

But that's exactly the point. Mauer's bat is too valuable to let miss so much action. When you catch, you're going to miss more games than when you play any other position. But Mauer's bat can carry any position--1st, DH, etc.

oh I missed the any other MLB player part of the statement. It would seem Mauer is at risk of losing more at bats because he catches.

During the Joe Torre era, it was talked about endlessly that he wouldn't DH Posada on his days off, because the backup catcher is already in the game, and someone may come by with a blowdart and take him out. Then they'd lose the DH for a couple of hours, and the space/time continuum would be fractured forever.

Despite my snark, there is a point there. Good-hitting catchers in the AL seem not to DH on their days off as often as they should for that reason. And in the specialist bullpen era, teams generally don't carry three catchers.

The problem with Mauer is how tall he is. Tall catchers don't age very well, because of the toll on their knees. The issue is not how durable he's been so far, but how long he can play regularly behind the plate and contribute, as opposed to how long he could contribute playing some other position (1B, DH or RF/LF).

Zuvella,

I think that you have a reasonable position, overall. But I think things are pretty complicated, when you get right down to it.

But that's exactly the point. Mauer's bat is too valuable to let miss so much action. When you catch, you're going to miss more games than when you play any other position. But Mauer's bat can carry any position--1st, DH, etc.

and...

oh I missed the any other MLB player part of the statement. It would seem Mauer is at risk of losing more at bats because he catches.

Well, I don't really know how much higher the injury risk is for a catcher than a player at another position. It is probably a bit higher. But how many catcher injuries happen when the player is catching? I would guess that acute injuries are more common while hitting and running, whereas catching probably causes a lot of chronic leg injuries.

But a bigger factor is that by catching, Mauer will need more days off. This takes his bat out of the lineup. If he was playing 3rd base, he would probably need less rest.

So now you need to consider the tradeoff's: Mauer is a very good defensive catcher. His value over the replacement hitter as a catcher is very high. At another position, his defensive value takes a hit, as does his value over a replacement hitter. But he gets more at bats. So where is the break even point. I don't really know.

Also, what is the difference in injury risk in catching, when compared with 3rd base? (I am assuming Mauer would be decent as a 3rd baseman.) All of these factors need to be considered in his position.

My guess is, as long as he can avoid chronic injuries he is most valuable catching. Maybe later in his career he will need to play 3rd base or 1st base.

Good points, Dr. I, and well stated. My worry would be that catching now would take away much from his performance later on due to attrition.

The problem with Mauer is how tall he is. Tall catchers don't age very well, because of the toll on their knees. The issue is not how durable he's been so far, but how long he can play regularly behind the plate and contribute, as opposed to how long he could contribute playing some other position (1B, DH or RF/LF).

Is this true? The problem is, how many players in MLB history (other than pitchers) are as tall as Mauer? He is 6'6". We don't really have very many data points here to project catcher wear and tear.

I also don't understand why being taller as a catcher will take a bigger toll on Mauer's knees. Squating is hard on everyone's knees. It doesn't seem to me (as a very tall guy) that a tall catcher needs to squat any deeper than a short catcher does. They all are squatting pretty low.

Good points, Dr. I, and well stated. My worry would be that catching now would take away much from his performance later on due to attrition.

Yes, this is a pretty reasonable concern. But he has a lot of value as a catcher. I hope that by mixing in enough rest days as a DH that Mauer can have a long career. Lots of other great catchers have played for a long time.

Good points, Dr. I, and well stated. My worry would be that catching now would take away much from his performance later on due to attrition.

But that's not really the Twins problem. They have no guarantee he won't leave them for a monster deal elsewhere in 2011. They need to maximize his value to them during the time they have him signed. IF he signs a long term (6-7 year) deal after 2010, THEN you look at the long term effects.

You don't want Johjima, trust me. Even if he was available (many are certain that his three-year contract extension had nothing to do with his performance):
- he's 30
- his offense has fallen off a cliff (currently .218/.257/.291)
- his defense is sub-par.

You may be able to get Clement though - the Ms have Rob Johnson in AAA, and a backup catcher in Burke.

Is this true? The problem is, how many players in MLB history (other than pitchers) are as tall as Mauer? He is 6'6". We don't really have very many data points here to project catcher wear and tear.

Up until Cal Ripken, wasn't the standard reasoning that tall guys couldn't handle the strain of playing SS regularly? We're largely in the same situation with catcher, where everyone knows that tall guys can't handle playing it, so tall guys get moved off of the position. Mauer is likely to be the one who disproves the notion.

ou may be able to get Clement though - the Ms have Rob Johnson in AAA, and a backup catcher in Burke.

I thought Clement wasn't that good defensively...

I long for the .370/.480 Varitek, however.

I wouldn't mind being 33 again, either.

I really don't see this situation being much of an issue. Though the free agent catching market will be sparse, I don't anticipate teams getting in a bidding war over Varitek's services. The Tigers, Mets, and Red Sox will all be looking for a full-time catcher and, to the best of my knowledge, that will be the extent of the market. Pudge still plays elite defense, hits for a respectable average, and has had a pretty stable ISO over the last three years so I would imagine he is going to be a much hotter commodity.

With the stability he brings to the pitching staff (tired cliche or not), I don't see how the Red Sox wouldn't be willing to offer him a two year deal at market rate for a 37 year old catcher hitting .215/.296 and striking out ever 3.5 PA's. Even if a team like the Mets offers him a few more nickels, it's hard to imagine him bolting, Boras client or not.

Tall catchers don't age very well, because of the toll on their knees.

Connie Mack aged just fine. Maybe we'll see Mauer still managing the Twins in 2062.

The Tigers, Mets, and Red Sox will all be looking for a full-time catcher and, to the best of my knowledge, that will be the extent of the market.

The Jays could lose both halves of their catching platoon, and don't seem too convinced of Curtis Thigpen's abilities. They're also likely to be active in the free agent catching market.

Mauer is the best frikin catcher in the universe, this one or any other.

How good is he?

When his grunt replacement gives him a break, bats 3rd just to make sure Mauer finds everything stays just like he left it when he returns.

People keep saying Mauer is the best catcher in baseball, and he looks like it with his good defensive skills and that nice line drive swing. But while he has a good OBP, he has almost no power.

I think McCann has a good case too. 2007 was a lost year for him with a broken finger and ankle injury, but he is back to mashing the ball. He doesn't throw many runners out, but supposedly he is a good game caller, does his homework, and blocks pitches well.

I thought Clement wasn't that good defensively...

He's not Varitek, no. But he's pretty decent.

People keep saying Mauer is the best catcher in baseball, and he looks like it with his good defensive skills and that nice line drive swing. But while he has a good OBP, he has almost no power.

I think McCann has a good case too. 2007 was a lost year for him with a broken finger and ankle injury, but he is back to mashing the ball. He doesn't throw many runners out, but supposedly he is a good game caller, does his homework, and blocks pitches well.

If you use OPS+, then they are pretty similar. Mauer is more of a table setter at this point, McCann has more power. Both have had some injuries, causing their year to year numbers to fluctuate. People keep waiting for Mauer's power to develop, and it may never come. But we will know for sure in a few more years.

"He picks the brains of scouts, coaches and anyone he thinks can help with that day’s game."

Mmmm, brains....

He's not Varitek, no. But he's pretty decent.

Touche.