Bad running? Mike de la Hoziery looks on.
While Keith Law is discussing Orlando Hudson here – the “Slow-Dawg” – he might as well be referring to Robinson Cano. Though Cano is not viwed as a “low-power middle infielder,” he is often mistakenly perceived as having “good speed,” although, as Law says, such a characterization just does not “bear out in reality.” I remember Joe Buck referencing Cano in this way throughout the World Series and wondered how, exactly, Buck came to that conclusion given Cano’s poor stolen base numbers – 17 steals in 38 attempts – and decidedly low speed score (3.6). To be fair to Buck, even I admit that I was surprised at how sluggish Cano was on the bases when he first arrived on the scene in 2005.
Perhaps stereotypes regarding infielders as well as stereotypes pertaining to appearance are to blame. While Cano is a powerful middle infielder, he is, still, a middle infielder. Thus, we assume that he is faster, for whatever reason, because middle infielders just are that way inherently. Plus, Cano is slim and “looks” athletic, so perhaps that visual is what makes many people think he is faster than he really is (conversely, when we look at Prince Fielder, we do not consider him to be fast, so, assuming the opposite – thin equals fast – is often the case). In addition, though I am hesitant to say this in fear of a backlash, there are longstanding ethnic and racial stereotypes which distinguish minorities as “fast runners,” so I wonder if this is also implicitly at play with guys like Robinson Cano and Orlando Hudson. This is a difficult issue to discuss, but, as many academics have noted, it is a characterization that exists.
It is a mixture of these things – sometimes one or the other, sometimes all three – that likely influence our perceptions of speed in baseball. Orlando Hudson and Robinson Cano are just two examples of players that are “surprisingly slow” because of these preconceived thoughts. It is an interesting issue to consider the next time we watch a game.
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Cano also seems to ground into alot of DPs for a lefty. That could always be a function of having alot of opportunities. But his RBI/GDP ratio is 4.19 while the league average is 5.57. And that includes right-handed batters, too. He should be driving in alot of runs with a batting AVG above the league average (.306 vs. .270). His ISO or isolated power is also high compared to the league, .173 vs. .157. So he should have alot of RBIs to offset his GDPs. Now it is possible that he has had bad luck and had a disproportionate number of his times at-bat with a runner on first only and less than two outs, which are not good RBI situations. But that seems unlikely.
3B/(2B+3B)
is a standard stat formulation in the projections I used to do. You are correct in that it's probably the best way to use triples as an indicator of speed.
However lefties do have a bit of an advantage in this stat so that should be taken into account (another debit in Cano's column).
If I've calculated correctly, Cano is a 703C, a family which includes second basemen such as Craig Biggio and Jose Vidro. It also includes corner infielders such as Olerud, Mattingly, Youkilis, and Ryan Zimmerman. These players also seem to have in common low speed and good fielding reputations.
It was hilarious last year how if Cano comes up with no one one someone good is almost guarenteed to happen (no on . 376/.407/.609 , men on first 336/.365/.555 , but if guys are on 2nd or 3rd? game over.)
Watching Cano run, he looks like he's just fast jogging almost all the time. he also seem to get terrible read on pitchers and have poor jumps. which adds to his horrific SB/CS totals.
Thank you.
I read that line and just went, huh?
First I've ever seen anyone call Cano slim. Then again, I've never heard anyone call him speedy either. The knock on him in the minors was that he had a bad body, lacked range and was already a lil chubby and might get even chubbier, lose range and not be able to play 2b, though his strong arm would have let him play 3b.
Hes a stocky middle infielder. As someone else mentioned, Jose Vidro (when he was an Expo) is a good top-of-the-head comp. Stocky 2b-men with high averages and gap power.
EDIT: The Cano is fat/overweight thing has always bothered me. If Cano is a stocky IF what does the average IF look like?
This, maybe?
EDIT: More seriously, Cano is not really chubby, but he is sort of broad compared to a lot of old-school middle IF. That said, he does fall in line with a tradition of bigger-bodied, power-hitting 2B, like Chase Utley, Jeff Kent, and maybe Ryne Sandberg. Then again, I haven't heard anybody call Cano "overweight" in years. "Lazy", yes, but "overweight" -- which, by the way, strikes me as coded language for "black/Hispanic but not fast" as much as "speedy" is coded language for "black middle infielder" -- not in a while.
Seriously, years ago I tuned in and mistook him for Ruben Sierra.
Soon after he made 3 ghastly errors in one game and I was beginning to believe that he WAS in fact Ruben Sierra.
That was the knock on Bernie Williams too - in the OF he was as fast as anyone, but he never had quick first step or, I dunno, daring to steal bases.
David
Yes, you're right. But his road ratio is .072. That is below his overall rate.
Cy
Prior to 2008 Frenchy was the reverse
he was so dramatically better (150+ points in OPS), every year with RISP that it was starting to look like a skill, then in 2008 his OPS with RISP 112 points worse than without RISP, and in 2009 it was 172 points worse. For his career he's now 36 points better with RISP than not...
For his career to date Cano has been dramatically worse with RISP than all other situations, I wouldn't assume that will continue. He's got over 700 PAs with RISP, so maybe it's a real "skill" (anti-skill?), but I wouldn't be at all surprised if his split stats even out or even reverse next year- happens all the time to all types of players, the guy who hits .350 with RISP one year seems just as likely to hit .225 the next
And why is it so strange that someone like O-Dawg isn't fast? Can't thin, shortish people are be slow?
I never saw Wright get compared to Williams, what I generally saw were: comparisons of Wright to Rolen, and then someone objecting to that comparison because Wright is physically so dissimilar to Rolen...
My favorite rookie comparisons were made by Joe Torre- he compared Alphonso Soriano to Hank Aaron and Robbie Cano to Rod Carew, the reaction the MSM, statheads, and scouting communities was a universal WTF... but in hindsight he did see SOMETHING
I don't think it's a racial thing in this case. It's more that people expect defensive players whose responsibility it is to cover a lot of ground (SS, 2B, CF) to be fast.
You heard this a lot from a variety of sources: specifically regarding the speed of his wrists.
The guy with the greatest dissonance between his "quickness" and his running speed that I can recall was Graig Nettles (who was a 2B in the minors), I can't recall anyone who reached his max lateral speed so quickly- but that was it, it was like he had one gear, he could get into 1st gear faster than anyone else, but there was no 2nd gear after that...
Right. I didn't mean that Wright was compared to Williams, specifically, only to another white third baseman.
I forgot about these. And, while they are comparisons to players of similar ethnicity/race these comparisons actually make sense. Neither of these are great comparisons, although there are some similar features in their swings. Cano's swing looks an awful lot like someone else's (something in the way that he coils up in his stance and then unwinds into his swing), but I can't remember who right now. Does anyone currently look like Carew? I mean, obviously, Cecil Cooper was nearly a carbon copy but doesn't anyone recent use that wide open, spread stance and a wristy swing? You know's old swing I love to watch (since I don't remember him)? Tony Oliva. As a kid, I always confused him with Rico Carty (which was surely about confusing their names as a kid or something), but his swing looks remarkably like Tony Gwynn's to me.
Yeah. I meant this as a separate observation than the one I made about race and comparison. I think you are right too about it being about defensive position. Although there is this tendency by many of us (myself included when I look at historical players) to think, "Well, he has no power and he's kind of small, he must run well."
I'm very aware of that RISP and even H/R L/R splits are often not a repetitive skill, but that doesn't change the amusing disparity of difference for Cano last year.
I think he's more specifically referring to a certain aspect of their ability than the whole package (Soriano's power and Cano's line drive skills) in that sense those aren't really far fetched comparasons.
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