also the clubhouse toilet was hung in improper "overhand" fashion

They let Mattingly's sideburns go, but bust on Tito for this? Come on!

I thought Francona had some kind of circulatory issue that was behind the pullover.

also the clubhouse toilet was hung in improper "overhand" fashion

The whole toilet?

Also, stupid babies need the most attention.

I thought Francona had some kind of circulatory issue that was behind the pullover.

I thought so too. Who was the first skipper to do eschew the jersey? It seems like alot of the AL East guys wear the nightshirt: Francona, Torre, and Gibbons.

Give Watson a break. It's the last week of August and he's trying to look busy around the office, and that's hard.

1. Nasty Nate Posted: August 30, 2007 at 10:27 AM (#2504582)

also the clubhouse toilet was hung in improper "overhand" fashion

2. The Essex Snead Posted: August 30, 2007 at 10:27 AM (#2504583)

They let Mattingly's sideburns go, but bust on Tito for this? Come on!

that's two, TWO obscure Simpsons references, right off the bat.

oh, and wasn't Watson in the Yankees organization for a long time? I would imagine that could irk Francona

From a 2004 Globe article about Francona:

Francona has come under fire for everything from abandoning the bunt, and being too soft on his players, to donning a red fleece top over his uniform that makes him look like your next-door neighbor en route to the dump.

"I like my fleece top," Francona said. "It keeps me warm. I get cold very easily because of the blood thinners I have to take."

Francona suffered permanent damage to his circulation when a routine knee surgery went awry, causing him to suffer, among other medical horrors, a staph infection and a pulmonary embolism. He will take blood thinners for the rest of his life, and experiences burning sensations in his legs whenever he exerts too much pressure on them.

"But hey, I also wear the top because it's comfortable," he said, smiling. "When I was managing in Philly, I used to wear one all the time. And, the more people got ticked off about it, the more I wore it. Even when it was hot."

A circulatory issue? What the hell? It's not a cycling jersey.

Well, Shredder, I hope you're ashamed of yourself now.

wasn't Watson in the Yankees organization for a long time?

Well, he didn't exactly leave on the best of terms, so if you're implying a bias, it's more likely that it runs the other way.

He recently docked Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long $1,000 for not wearing a jersey.

I missed that, was Long topless? If so $1,000 was not enough.

And Watson had no business in the dugout during the game unless he skydived onto the field during the seventh-inning stretch.

I saw a Tigers game recently where the announcers noted Leyland was wearing a uniform top after getting a talking to. Haven't seen one since, so I don't know if he has gone back.

Well, he didn't exactly leave on the best of terms, so if you're implying a bias, it's more likely that it runs the other way.

I wasn't implying bias, just suggesting that Francona might be extra irked by the fact that he was getting a talking-to from a former Yankee front office guy, in Yankee Stadium

the whole thing is stupid, anyway

I had been wondering where Bob Watson was these days and I'm glad to see he's found a niche as a nit-picky ball buster.

Learning of this I've changed my mind, he might be just the man for Drayton Mclane!

What a bunch of ####. Like anyone wants to see a fat manager in a player's uniform anyway. It's absurd. They should all wear some sort of team-oriented non-uniform casual getup.

I thought the pullover was a New England thing, like Belichick's sleeveless sweatshirt.

The managers should wear suits, like Connie Mack did. Out-of-shape old guys squeezing into uniforms like the players is ridiculous.

The managers should wear suits, like Connie Mack did. Out-of-shape old guys squeezing into uniforms like the players is ridiculous.

yeah, but then we wouldn't get the "which hole in his belt is Tommy Lasorda on now?" watch when he shows up to Dodgers spring training. That's becoming one of my favorite baseball traditions.

The managers should wear suits, like Connie Mack did. Out-of-shape old guys squeezing into uniforms like the players is ridiculous.

No, then we'd get some NFLesque reg saying the suits have to be made by Nike or some other sponsor. IIRC, Jack Del Rio had to jump through all sorts of hoops to wear a suit.

Out-of-shape old guys squeezing into uniforms like the players is ridiculous.

David Wells called, he said "F*ck the heck you talkin' about?"

Well, Shredder, I hope you're ashamed of yourself now.

Not really. Scioscia wears a pullover all the time, but he wears the uniform top underneath. I assume that Francona is only wearing the pullover. I think it's pretty nitpicky from Watson, but how hard is it to just put the uniform top on and wear a pullover on top?

There's a good trivia question: What's Francona's uniform number?

I think it's pretty stupid for MLB on the whole. It's not like there's a large market for manager jerseys, and showcasing the pullovers and jackets and whatnot in game action is a pretty decent marketing idea. So of course, it must be stopped!

What's Francona's uniform number?

Larger than his IQ

According to the redsox.com website, his # is 47.

Francona should wear only a jersey next game.

As a Braves fan, I've been behind getting Bobby into a pullover for a couple of years now. The man just looks uncomfortable most of the time.

In other news, Paul Lukas just had multiples.

Re: Jack Del Rio - the condition that he had to wear a suit was that it was a suit made by Reebok(?!?) one of the official NFL clothiers.

Give Watson a break. It's the last week of August and he's trying to look busy around the office, and that's hard.

"And pick up that Kleenex."

"And pick up that Kleenex."

It's what Larry Craig was trying to do.

I think there are a couple of things to consider:

a) If you don't strictly enforce uniform policies, then they tend to get pushed to their limits. So I don't really fault Watson too much for being concerned about this. The question is really whether they should be allowed to wear something instead of the top rather than just over the top.

b) In baseball, there are fairly strict rules (I believe) about who is allowed in the dugout when (for fairly good reasons). This is not the NFL where everyone and their brother can go and hang out on the sideline. Therefore, the uniform policies actually have some basis in reality.

HOWEVER, it seems as though this is a weird hill to die on and a simple amending of the rules seems to be in order.

Francona obviously is a member of the Big Nate fan club. And in his secret other life he goes by the name of "Francis"---the sartorial resemblance is uncanny.

They should all wear some sort of team-oriented non-uniform casual getup.

They should be made to wear leisure suits, and possibly to style their hair in a mullet.

Terry should take a lesson from the another Boston coach and just dress like a hobo in the dugout.

Well, he didn't exactly leave on the best of terms, so if you're implying a bias, it's more likely that it runs the other way.

His record while in MLB's front office suggests otherwise, however.

The issue is not so much having a uniform inspection (which is silly, but understandable from baseball's perspective) but doing it mid-inning while there's something actually occurring on the field. That, to me, is indefensibly stupid.

Does anyone know if the actual person who did the inspection is a Yankee/Yankee Stadium employee or a MLB employee?

His record while in MLB's front office suggests otherwise, however.

Based on what? Fining the Yankee hitting coach for the same violation that he only warned Francona about?

Based on, you know, his actual record working for MLB over a number of years. Look it up if you care to see the info.

Look it up if you care to see the info.

How about you cite an example or two if you're going to make a blanket statement like that? Too much to ask, I guess.

Go back and read your initial post in this, then post 39. See the problem here?

I was speculating. You were being definitive. See the difference there?

If you don't strictly enforce uniform policies, then they tend to get pushed to their limits.

Perhaps, but daring to explore the limits of uniform policy seems fairly unimportant compared to things like the phantom tag at second, catchers' blocking the plate, batters' not attempting to get out of the way of pitched balls, and so forth. Of the nits to be picked, I myself would prefer Watson pick the ones that have even a small effect on play.

And it's not as if there isn't historical precedence for managers' wearing something other than uniforms. Furthermore, it's a spectator sport; individuality among the participants only adds to rooting interests: you can root for the clean-cut Reds and Yankees if such things matter that much to you or root for the more slovenly/hirsute/stylized/whatever Red Sox if you prefer rooting for the guys who dare to look different.

Reading the posts, no, actually, there doesn't appear to be a difference there.

What I do see is you not liking someone to back up your comments, though, while you are always quite eager to ask others to do the research for you.

So be it.

What a flippin joke. The fashion police interrupting the manager of the Sawx in the middle of a big game. Maybe Watson was Sherlock Holmezing for WMD's. Upper mgmt at its best, once again.

I reckon managers should have to wear the cartoon uniform....shirt, waistcoat no pants. Ala Yogi Bear, Donald Duck et. al.

IIRC, Jack Del Rio had to jump through all sorts of hoops to wear a suit.

Mike Nolan of the Niners was the one leading that charge (he wanted to do it from the second he took over). Reebok finally made a 49ers suit, which was really a little goofy - it's not like people won't buy an NFL teamed tie, or even a sport jacket with the logo like the one Hank Stram used to wear.

Coaches/managers should be allowed to wear whatever they want. Some managers probably prefer the uniform. Some obviously don't. So let those who want to wear the duds wear them, and those who want to come out in a slacks and a team-embroidered polo shirt wear that.

My only caveat would be that everybody has to wear the cap. That can be the one unifying piece of clothing.

Coaches/managers should be allowed to wear whatever they want.

I agree with this. What difference does it make?

Tangentially, whenever I see Bob Watson's name, I'm always reminded that Jim Bouton speaks in Ball Four about taking advantage of Watson's youthful enthusiasm by getting him to catch Bouton's knuckler for him before games in 1969, and breaking Watson's finger in the process...

I've been wracking my brain on the question "why does baseball require managers to wear uniforms while other teams don't?"

All I can come up with (and I don't know the rules of all other sports intimately enough to speak definitively on this) is that baseball rules allow a manager to enter the field of play while other sports technically don't allow non-players out there (although this is broken fairly routinely). Could that be it?

All I can come up with (and I don't know the rules of all other sports intimately enough to speak definitively on this) is that baseball rules allow a manager to enter the field of play while other sports technically don't allow non-players out there (although this is broken fairly routinely). Could that be it?

I don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg, but yes. You cannot enter the field of play if you're not wearing a uniform (umpires and medical personnel excluded.) I had actually never thought twice about Francona's pullover, but if it's allowed by the rules, then Watson should STFU.

It would be strange to see a manager in a suit or jeans and polo go visit a pitcher wouldn't it? Almost too akin to little league baseball. I'd almost expect to see the pitcher's mom come running out, hand at her open mouth, anxious look in her eyes, to see if little Roger's ok.

They should take out Wang when Hinske is up so that his coach can pitch to him underhand.

Could that be it?

I always assumed it was something that was left over from the old days when there were player managers.

I think managers wear player uniforms in baseball mainly because in the early years, many (most?) were player/managers. Way back when, one of the wily veterans on a team got paid a little extra to tell the other guys what to do.

All I can come up with (and I don't know the rules of all other sports intimately enough to speak definitively on this) is that baseball rules allow a manager to enter the field of play while other sports technically don't allow non-players out there (although this is broken fairly routinely). Could that be it?

That's the way I've understood it. Although, my knowledge is likely no better than yours on the subject.

I like the current system where managers wear the uniforms. There may be no deeper reason than it's the system MLB currently uses and I've never had a problem with it and there's no compelling reason to change. The collar shirts and khakis are the domain of the medical staff. If you're part of the official coaching staff, you should wear the uniform. It would be weird to see the third and first-base coaches in uniforms and then the manager in a shirt and pressed pair of pants. It'd be strange to see some managers in uniforms and some not. The best I can say is that it gives a more team-like impression than do coaches in suits. It's the same way with injured MLB players on the bench having to sit in uniforms, whereas injured NBA players sit in their suits.

Oh yeah, Watson shouldn't create a stink about this and shouldn't visit him during a game, but Francona should also just put on a uniform top and wear the pullover over that.

I think managers wear player uniforms in baseball mainly because in the early years, many (most?) were player/managers. Way back when, one of the wily veterans on a team got paid a little extra to tell the other guys what to do.

I'm pretty sure that's true in basketball, too, but I thank goodness I never saw Frank Layden in uniform.

A manager once said that he wore a jacket because he wanted it to be easy for the coaches and players on the field to pick him out in the dugout for signs and signals. I always figured that's why so many do it.

The issue is not so much having a uniform inspection (which is silly, but understandable from baseball's perspective) but doing it mid-inning while there's something actually occurring on the field. That, to me, is indefensibly stupid.

They'd already checked him before the game, but I guess they thought he might have changed after that inspection. So I don't think checking during the game was uncalled for, but jeez, wait until between innings!