What a shocker it is that this political thread has been up for hours and nobody on this site has commented on it yet.

I ALMOST feel a little sorry for all these old pinkos like Moursund. I think they were actually starting to believe all of their own B.S. they've been spouting about how the Republican party is dead and will never win another election again.

Yeah, it's amazing that a thread about local Tampa-St Pete politics isn't drawing a firestorm of activity. I'm personally shocked.

Boy, up for the entire Midnight to 10 AM spot on Primer and not a single comment. Shocking!

In any case, while it sounds like Foster is marginally more pro-stadium than his opponent, he isn't exactly beating down the door to do it. From TFA:

"We're not going to build any stadiums anytime soon," Foster said. "We will respect the Rays and talk to them, but we've got to tackle some of those pressing issues" [...] Foster said any use of taxpayer funds would have to be approved by a voter referendum. Previous polls have indicated there is not enough support in the city to approve a referendum.

If I had to guess, the Rays will be in the Trop for at least another 5 years, maybe 10

I would jump in but I don't think I'm a good enough human being to talk politics with Joey. Maybe Joey could use this thread to post his Manifesto and I'll just do my best to adopt all its tenets. I'm assuming maintain a constant, raging, humorless anger is tenant #1. I'll do my best!

Speaking of politics, I'm looking forward to having lunch today with two of BBTF's non-existent conservatives. If I show up tomorrow in a sweater vest and brochures for SUV's, you know I've gone to the Dark Side.

If I show up tomorrow in a sweater vest and brochures for SUV's, you know I've gone to the Dark Side.

Does this mean we shouldn't invite you to a Game Seven meet-up, least I be subject to said sweater vests and SUV sales pressure?

Bill Foster was a great lefthanded pitcher and a Hall of Famer. I didn't even know he was still alive, but I doubt he'll be able to help the Rays all that much next year. He might have a bit more left than Troy Percival though.

Does this mean we shouldn't invite you to a Game Seven meet-up, least I be subject to said sweater vests and SUV sales pressure?

You sure you want non-Yankee fans around you for a game 7? If it happens, of course.

OK, this is much better. I'm just happy that all you lefties didn't do something rash to yourselves in a fit of depression last night.

I don't think there are any lefties who live in St. Petersburg here.

You sure you want non-Yankee fans around you for a game 7? If it happens, of course.

I was just giving you a hard time, I couldn't do a meet-up for a Game 7, I'd be too wound-up. Perhaps afterwards though, Scoriano and I have a half-promise to go to NYY Steak to celebrate if the Yankees win.

I'm just happy that all you lefties didn't do something rash to yourselves in a fit of depression last night.

I'm sure all the lefty Virginians and Jerseyites who regularly post here will be by later, once they sleep off their despair-induced hangovers.

I'm actually not bothered by Corzine losing. I'm not a big fan of the Goldman-Sachs Illuminati thing. Virginia? That's still a kinda Republican state. I'm just assuming the Repubs will make gains in 2010, too. The pendulum is always swinging. By 2012, the economy is going to be strong again and it'll be a good environment for incumbents. Look at me, laying out future events for you at no cost. I am such a sucker! Truly, my heart is too big for this world.

I'm just assuming the Repubs will make gains in 2010, too. The pendulum is always swinging.

I agree, but you really need to let Moursund know. He's spent the entire last year concern trolling and telling everyone who'll listen that the Republican party is dead and will never win another election as long as we live.

I don't think anyone but you knows who "Moursund" is. He doesn't seem to have anything to do with this article. Google searches are useless in finding out who he is as well.

I agree, but you really need to let Moursund know.

Honestly, I don't know who this Moursund is. I usually avoid the politics threads. There are always people who get carried away. I remember hearing there would never be another Dem president after Bush the Elder whomped Dukakis. My advice is to ignore the wackos no matter what direction they're coming from.

pendulum is always swinging.

The problem with the swining pendulum is with current legislative efforts. Despite claims that "pendulums have no effect on legislation in committee", too many exit polls showed that voters had economic concerns. This form of referendum may negatively impact the implementation of health care reform.

I don't think anyone but you knows who "Moursund" is. He doesn't seem to have anything to do with this article. Google searches are useless in finding out who he is as well.


He's a Jolly fellow.

I don't think anyone but you knows who "Moursund" is.

Really? Wow. You guys aren't nearly as astute as I thought you were. He's only linked to his old bookstore about a thousand times. I guess I'm one of the only guys that ever bothered to actually go on there and look around.

The problem with the swining pendulum is with current legislative efforts. Despite claims that "pendulums have no effect on legislation in committee", too many exit polls showed that voters had economic concerns. This form of referendum may negatively impact the implementation of health care reform.

Of course, but the electorate doesn't parse the issues this closely. It seems the pendulum moves on vague notions of satisfaction or dissatisfaction.

Moursund is Andy?

Oh, not only an attempt to have a political thread motivated entirely by desire to gloat, but an attempt to have a political thread ABOUT a BTF commenter about whom another BTF commenter has an unhealthy obsession. Good luck with finding other participants for that, Joey B.

Speaking of politics, I'm looking forward to having lunch today with two of BBTF's non-existent conservatives. If I show up tomorrow in a sweater vest and brochures for SUV's, you know I've gone to the Dark Side.

Eep. And I'm not even in town to provide backup! I'M VERY SCARY.

I can be as angry as Joey, though. To wit: you and all your ####### brethren in Maine can go die in a fire.

(Corzine's been dead man walking for quite awhile now, I don't see much notable in that defeat.)

What a shocker it is that this political thread has been up for hours and nobody on this site has commented on it yet

I just woke up. I need a cup of coffee first before I BTF politic. And maybe a scone.

I'm just happy that all you lefties didn't do something rash to yourselves in a fit of depression last night.

Wait, this just hit me. Why? Corzine was a bad governor and ran a campaign that was truly despicable on every level. Creigh Deeds never stood a chance; hold the election on any day this election cycle, he would have lost by double-digits easy. Unlike you, Joe, I'm not married to party affiliation. I am, however, mildly amused that you'd think those elections really matter to people who aren't local to those areas, or that they mean anything on a national level.

Really? Wow. You guys aren't nearly as astute as I thought you were. He's only linked to his old bookstore about a thousand times. I guess I'm one of the only guys that ever bothered to actually go on there and look around.

I read most, if not all political threads, and I have never heard Andy referred to as "Moursund". What the hell does that mean? Is it an acronym, an inside nickname, something else? Apparently, only you seem to know, which is probably more a comment on you than the rest of us.

Is it an acronym, an inside nickname, something else?

It's his last name, which he doesn't use on the site.

Well, Joey, the one race which actually had ramifications beyond local or statewide issues was in NY-23, in which (as I'm sure you know) meddling by national figures from the lunatic fringe of your party (Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, etc.) resulted in the Republican candidate withdrawing from the campaign on the final weekend and throwing her support to the Democrat rather than the Conservative candidate handpicked by the wingnuts to torpedo her campaign. End result? A district which had not sent a Democrat to Washington since Abraham Freaking Lincoln was in the White House is now in the blue column. Congratulations!

Hey, speaking of civil wars, get ready to enjoy the one brewing in the GOP, a party seemingly bent on sacrificing its viability as a national force in the interest of ideological purity.

There were two governors' races, both won by Republicans; there were two Congressional races, both won by Democrats. Governors are more important than Congressmen, so I suppose you could call it an overall win for the GOP, but I'm not seeing a rout.

The amazing thing is that New York-23 hadn't elected a Democrat to Congress since the 19th century, until Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin moved in. I wonder if Rush did something rash to himself in a fit of depression last night.

It's his last name, which he doesn't use on the site.

Well, I guess I'm not as astute as i thought ; ) Should I know Joey's last name as well?

EDIT: adds nothing.

Also, New Jersey-ites, is Christie going to cut income tax? Now that I'll be working in Newark, I'm very pro income tax cut in favor of an increase in property tax. ME ME ME ME!

I wonder if Rush did something rash to himself in a fit of depression last night.

Rush doesn't care. He's in the news! People are talking about him! I honestly don't believe he has an ideology.

Now that I'll be working in Newark

Good god, how did THAT happen?

Good god, how did THAT happen?

His bosses found out just how obsessed he was with the bathroom habits of his office mates, so they decided to send him to a real ########.

Good god, how did THAT happen?

The fund I work for is breaking free from our corporate masters and Newark is cheaper per square foot than Manhattan. Gateway Plaza isn't bad.

The Tampa Bay Rays, eager to get out of downtown because they say it’s too far from the center of the area’s population

theyve been in the league 11 years! Where were the centers of population when they chose to enter MLB?!?

yeah yeah, different owners but jeez.

Should I know Joey's last name as well?

It's Bushitler.

I don't think they mentioned his last name, but Joey was featured in the Daily Show clip linked yesterday.

Rays are still under-represented, but you'll find skates everywhere.

I'm just happy that all you lefties didn't do something rash to yourselves in a fit of depression last night.

Yeah, the GOP's circular firing squad's coming to fruition in NY-23 just crushed my poor l'il liberal heart. That race is going to have repercussions well beyond, say, the NJ or VA gubernatorial races. (It might work to the GOP's advantage, if they actually learn from it. But they won't, at least in time for the midterms.)

EDIT: Ah, christ. Coke to Mungo Jerry.

Anyway--Corzine's losing had more to do with Corzine's being unpopular and inept than it did with national attitudinal trends toward Dems generally or Obama specifically.

Should I know Joey's last name as well?

Beck.

Anyway--Corzine's losing had more to do with Corzine's being unpopular and inept than it did with national attitudinal trends toward Dems generally or Obama specifically.

I'm pretty happy Bloomberg had to sweat it out last night. I just assumed he'd win ny a landslide. I'm ok with him as mayor, but now he'll have to be a bit more circumspect. I'm glad the city didn't declare him emperor with 70% of the vote or something nutty like that.

And yeah, Corzine is very unpopular. He should have stayed in the Senate where his general lack of charisma could be kept hidden.

I'm pretty happy Bloomberg had to sweat it out last night. I just assumed he'd win ny a landslide. I'm ok with him as mayor, but now he'll have to be a bit more circumspect. I'm glad the city didn't declare him emperor with 70% of the vote or something nutty like that.

I wonder how well Anthony Weiner slept last night. It would have been close, but I think he'd be mayor-elect today if he'd stayed in the race.

I wonder how well Anthony Weiner slept last night. It would have been close, but I think he'd be mayor-elect today if he'd stayed in the race.

I admit, I was shocked this morning to see how close the race was. And yeah, it does indicate that Weiner might have won.

Well, Joey, the one race which actually had ramifications beyond local or statewide issues was in NY-23, in which (as I'm sure you know) meddling by national figures from the lunatic fringe of your party (Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, etc.) resulted in the Republican candidate withdrawing from the campaign on the final weekend and throwing her support to the Democrat rather than the Conservative candidate handpicked by the wingnuts to torpedo her campaign. End result? A district which had not sent a Democrat to Washington since Abraham Freaking Lincoln was in the White House is now in the blue column. Congratulations!

A third party nobody that no one had ever heard of a month ago forced the establishment Republican party choice out of the race, and narrowly lost to the Democrat. Yeah, I would certainly have liked to see him pull out a miracle, but to me it's not that big a loss, as the establishment Republican woman was hardly any different from the Dem.

And in addition to the McDonnell landslide and Chrstie winning in one the most solid Dem states in the country, there was a slew of down-ticket and statehouse races where the Republicans by and large beat the tar out of the Dems.

I do hope you guys keep believing your own B.S. though. I can't wait for a year from now.

with two of BBTF's non-existent conservatives. If I show up tomorrow in a sweater vest and brochures for SUV's, you know I've gone to the Dark Side.

It's true. I'm actually a NORAD algorithm gone terribly, but rather benignly, awry.

As for NY-23, c'mon guys. I get it. You don't like Limbaugh/Palin/Beck. They weren't the reason Hoffman didn't win, they were the reason he did so well to begin with. If the GOP establishment in NY-23 doesn't pick a candidate to the left of that district, the Republican wins in a walk-over.

It was a bad move by the local party. If they would have nominated Hoffman as the R he would have creamed Owens. There's no civil war, there's not going to be a civil war, etc etc.

I'm just happy that all you lefties didn't do something rash to yourselves in a fit of depression last night.

Yeah, the GOP's circular firing squad's coming to fruition in NY-23 just crushed my poor l'il liberal heart.

I was stunned how close the NY and NJ races were, Corzine is REALLY unpopular.
I voted for Bloomberg, everyone I know voted for Bloomberg, 70% of the electorate said they approve of his job performance- no one particularly likes Thompson- but apparently enough people were pissed off at the term limits thing that they voted for Thompson any way.

Virginia is a real good win for the Repubs.

NY-23 is a real wing nut slap down (though they won't see it that way).

Both NY and NJ have had Repub governors in the recent past, of course those Repubs were moderates and the type that drives wingnuts insane (RINOs you know)

What message should the Repubs take?
1: Don't nominate wingnuts outside the wingnut heartland
2: Look for unpopular Dem incumbents and run moderates (by Repub standards) against them.

What message should Dems take?
1: The wingnuts are energized, and they will come out and vote against you NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO
2: You have to get the Dem base out- and to do that you have to do something.

I hadn't realized that gay marriage was now 0 for 31 in state elections. The amazing thing is when you look at which 31 states have voted it down, you wouldn't think you could get unanimous results with any issue.

It was a bad move by the local party.

The NY Republican party is about the most f-ed organization on God's green earth. From what I can tell, their concerns start and end at patronage and graft. I even have to vote Democrat for my town mayor, the Republicans are so corrupt.

That said, Westchester County did elect a Republican County Exec. on a cut spending/cut taxes platorm, which I never thought I'd see again in my lifetime.

There are no national lessons to learn or trends to mark from yesterday's off year elections, excepting that unpopular, corrupt governors up for re-election in a economic down cycle tend to lose, and wing nuts that chase electable options off the ticket in search of ideologically correct true believers tend to lose.

The GOP will probably pick up seats in 2010. Midterms are historically good to opposition parties, and midterm electorates tend to skew older and whiter than general election voters, so that's going to benefit the party of angry white southerners. None of this has any bearing on 2012.

If the GOP establishment in NY-23 doesn't pick a candidate to the left of that district, the Republican wins in a walk-over

How did they end up with her in the first place? That was the part of the story I never quite worked out.

The GOP will probably pick up seats in 2010. Midterms are historically good to opposition parties, and midterm electorates tend to skew older and whiter than general election voters, so that's going to benefit the party of angry white southerners. None of this has any bearing on 2012.

I generally agree, but your last statement takes it too far. The swing of the pendulum back towards center may mean that Obama faces re-election with no real legistlative accomplishments.

That will put him entirely at the mercy of the economy. If unemployment is still north of 9% in 2012 (which I think is very, very likely) he's probably toast.

How did they end up with her in the first place? That was the part of the story I never quite worked out.

The NY Republican party are corrupt scumbags. She probably paid someone off, or was considered the best bet to supply the desired patronage funding.

It's his last name, which he doesn't use on the site.

For that extra classy touch by Joey B.

Seriously though, I was telling everyone who would listen before the election that NY-23 really doesn't mean anything (this was when Hoffman seemed set to win). Actually, I kind of agree with retro-shiite: this could be good thing for the GOP if it dissuades sore primary losers from running 3rd party in 2010. (I don't think there's anything wrong with having it out between both sides of the party in a primary, though...if that had happened in NY-23 the nomination would never have gone to Scozzafava and the seat would never have gone to a Dem.) Let us not forget that Hoffman was actually an aggressively bad candidate (something else I kept trying to point out to my fellow righties who were foaming with anticipation): weird-looking, a terrible public speaker, an outsider to the district, and woefully unfamiliar with important local issues.

As a Congressional district, it means nothing, literally: that district will cease to exist next year because of New York's hemorrhaging of residents, so NY-23 is going to be carved up in reapportionment, its pieces sent to other neighboring safe blue seats.

The real lessons? PRIMARIES ARE VERY GOOD THINGS. THIRD PARTY CANDIDACIES NOT SO MUCH.

If the GOP establishment in NY-23 doesn't pick a candidate to the left of that district Palin/Limbaugh/Beck had not meddled, the Republican wins in a walk-over.

Fixed. But by all means, the wingnuts should feel free to use the same playbook in Florida and hand Mel Martinez' Senate seat to the Democrats.

I voted for Bloomberg, everyone I know voted for Bloomberg, 70% of the electorate said they approve of his job performance- no one particularly likes Thompson- but apparently enough people were pissed off at the term limits thing that they voted for Thompson any way.

Interestingly, everyone I know--myself included--voted for Thompson on that theory. I don't even like term limits, but I thought Bloomberg's efforts were disgraceful, so he wasn't getting my vote.

The NY Republican party are corrupt scumbags.

Fairness dictates I point out that the NY Demodcrats are hardly better. The performance by everyone in the State Senate this summer was just hideous for all concerned.

Joey, for a guy who regularly complaisn about the number of political threads here at BTF, your work at revving up this particular one is nothing short of Phenomenal.

I generally agree, but your last statement takes it too far.

If you completely agreed with me I would swallow my tongue in shock!

The NY Republican party are corrupt scumbags. She probably paid someone off, or was considered the best bet to supply the desired patronage funding.

Fairness dictates I point out that the NY Demodcrats are hardly better. The performance by everyone in the State Senate this summer was just hideous for all concerned.

I often wonder if William Kennedy has enough life left in him to tackle Albany politics of the last 25 years in fiction same the way he did for the preceding 75. Sadly, probably not.

I find it very hard to maintain a discourse with someone who uses pejoratives like "wingnut" to describe, oh, say, a quarter of the voting population. If you think everyone who disagrees with you is crazy, well... have fun with that.

The NY Republican party is about the most f-ed organization on God's green earth. From what I can tell, their concerns start and end at patronage and graft. I even have to vote Democrat for my town mayor, the Republicans are so corrupt.

Yeah, New York is about the most politically pathetic state I've ever seen. The public unions run the Democrats (same in California) and the Republicans seem to enjoy slipping in the cracks and fissures to get theirs.

That said, Westchester County did elect a Republican County Exec. on a cut spending/cut taxes platorm, which I never thought I'd see again in my lifetime.

That was awesome, maybe my favorite thing about yesterday.

The NY Republican party are corrupt scumbages. She probably paid someone off.

Not really. My dad's family is from NY-23, is involved in politics theres, and so I have pretty good firsthand info from them on the NY-23 GOP...the nomination was 'gifted' to Scozzafava by the female chairman of the local GOP who is her BFF. Although several other members (the more conservative ones, natch) had strong misgivings, she was able to rally a coalition of liberal/moderate GOP friends on the committee, with the influence of the chairwoman, to get the nomination. Not corrupt, so to speak (although I guess it depends on how you define that term), but the worst sort of back-slapping politics. Nobody got a payoff, at least.

As I said before: you run a primary for this seat, it goes to someone with most of Hoffman's views but more charismatic and electable and local. And the seat stays Republican. But gets eliminated next year anyway.

I'm kind of pleased it worked out this way. I'm definitely no "kill the RINOs!" guy, as you all know, but Scozzafava was a bridge way too far even for me (her support for card-check was revolting and simply unacceptable for any Republican; I couldn't care less about her social views). This is a cost-free way of sending a message to party operatives that primaries matter, and that there's no reason to nominate someone so out-of-step with her district.

I take Joey's prognostications quite seriously, particularly after his prescient call of the '08 POTUS race. My favorite was the one where he trumpeted the electoral wins of Berlusconi and the rest of the Italian rightwing as a "preview of what's coming in November."

And in addition to the McDonnell landslide and Chrstie winning in one the most solid Dem states in the country,

Yes, because the last time there was a Republican governor in NJ, it was 2002. Almost a decade ago!

Fixed. But by all means, the wingnuts should feel free to use the same playbook in Florida and hand Mel Martinez' Senate seat to the Democrats.

And that was before I saw this. I suspect you're impossible to talk to rationally, but seriously, do you think the GOP should just not hold primaries? Hoffman was a third party challenger after Scozza was gifted the nomination. Rubio is openly challenging Crist in a primary. Do you think the Democrats should have forced Obama out because Clinton was the clear front-runner in 2008?

Should all Florida Republicans just get in line behind Crist because he's governor already, never mind that Rubio has been the top guy in the state house for awhile now? Dude, seriously, WTF?

How did they end up with her in the first place? That was the part of the story I never quite worked out.

This was a special election to fill the seat left vacant when that old slyboots Obama picked longtime NY-23 Congressman John McHugh to be Secretary of the Army. Since it was a special election, state GOP rules gave the choice of the party's candidate to the GOP county chairs in the district rather than by way of an open primary. The county chairs unanimously selected Scozzafava.

If they would have nominated Hoffman as the R he would have creamed Owens.

Seeing as how Hoffman doesn't even live in the district and had never before held public office, you can understand how his name might not have been the first to come to mind when candidates were bandied about.

Seeing as how Hoffman doesn't even live in the district and had never before held public office, you can understand how his name might not have been the first to come to mind when candidates were bandied about

Fair enough, I suppose I meant more someone with Hoffman's political inclinations.

NY-23 is a real wing nut slap down (though they won't see it that way).

Which is why I said they won't learn from it in time to benefit from it next year. They think this teabagger/ideological purity kick they're on is good for the party, when in fact it's alienated independent voters by the millions. (Though, as Sam pointed out, the president's opposition party almost always gains seats in midterm elections regardless. I still have serious doubts the GOP will recapture a majority in either house, but we'll see.)

I personally was most cheered by Chris Christie's win in New Jersey. I thought he didn't have a chance in hell -- that no matter what the polls said, the dead would once again rise in Newark and Jersey City and vote Corzine. Even if he won, I thought it would be a nastily close, lawyered-up squeaker. Instead he cruised as much as any statewide Republican could ever hope to in Jersey.

Also, as a former fat man, I salute the election of all jolly fat men everywhere. And he's a crazy Springsteen fan, been to something like 115 shows...can't argue with that.

Nice reference in #56, SoSH.


I thought he didn't have a chance in hell -- that no matter what the polls said, the dead would once again rise in Newark and Jersey City and vote Corzine. Even if he won, I thought it would be a nastily close, lawyered-up squeaker.

I cannot for the life of me imagine why you would think this, Eso. Corzine had no chance in hell, and anyone in the area, right or left, could have told you so.

The county chairs unanimously selected Scozzafava.

Rest assured it was not unanimous at first.

As I said before: you run a primary for this seat, it goes to someone with most of Hoffman's views but more charismatic and electable and local.

Scozzafava has been elected and easily reelected to her Assembly seat since 1998 and has risen to be State Assembly Deputy Minority Leader. Her ability to win NY-23 was never in serious doubt until people from outside the district decided she didn't meet their narrow definition of who can be a Republican.

Fixed. But by all means, the wingnuts should feel free to use the same playbook in Florida and hand Mel Martinez' Senate seat to the Democrats.

I've got some bad news for you: regardless of whether the GOP nominates Crist or Rubio that seat will go to the GOP. Kendrick Meek is the most unelectable candidate the Dems have put forth for a FL senate seat in living memory. No base, no record, no charisma, and it surely won't do him any favors in the Panhandle to be an openly liberal black man with a slim-to-nonexistent record running in the age of Obama-skepticism. Some very unfortunate resonances there.

Barring something crazy, this seat goes GOP no matter what. The FL Dem party just doesn't have a deep bench at all. The only way it could go to the Blue column would be if Rubio or Crist lost the primary and then ran as a spoiler third-party. I don't even know if that's legal under FL election law -- they might have 'sore-loser' restrictions.

FWIW, I would prefer Rubio but have no problem with Crist either.

Chrstie winning in one the most solid Dem states in the country,

You realize Massachusetts (that bastion of conservative dominance) has elected multiple Republican governors in recent years, don't you? (Same with the other "Solid Dem" New England states. And Maine has had two GOP senators forever. Party identification, even in those liberal states, is more complicated than you're making it seem. )

I mean, it may be that the GOP's poised for a comeback (I doubt it, until they stop being held hostage by the Palin wing), but Christie's win is pretty weak evidence of that.

Virginia is a real good win for the Repubs.

Yeah, McDonnell winning was a given, but I had no idea that it was going to be this big a landslide, and any leftie who implies that he did is simply lying through his teeth. They've spent the last couple of years going on and on about how Virginia is "going blue", or at worst "purple". It's true that there are a lot of independent voters in this state, but by and large they're still mostly libertarian style, small government pro business independents. We're just not down with Obama's agenda of turning the entire economy into state property, bankrupting the country, and destroying the currency.

I find it very hard to maintain a discourse with someone who uses pejoratives like "wingnut" to describe, oh, say, a quarter of the voting population.

Well I also use pejoratives to describe the Al Sharptons and Noam Chomsky's of the world.

Scozzafava wasn't to the left of the district, she was to the left of the activist portion of the Repub Base which is not synonymous with the "district" (But you actually seem to know that, mentioning 25%...)

What I've noted is that many wingnuts and moonbats THINK that their positions are agreed with by the majority- that if someone with their positions lose an election it is only because of false consciousness or somehow the electorate was tricked into voting against their interests/beliefs. (In the last 9-12 months the tea partiers are particularly fascinating most really do think they speak for the majority)

THERE IS NO MAJORITY IN THIS COUNTRY

Should all Florida Republicans just get in line behind Crist because he's governor already, never mind that Rubio has been the top guy in the state house for awhile now?

Of course not. Those who wish to, should vote for Rubio in the primary. My "playbook" comment was directed to the possibility of Rubio losing the primary, then mounting the same type of wingnut-backed, third-party candidacy that just lost a safe House seat to the Democrats in NY.

Yeah, New York is about the most politically pathetic state I've ever seen.

T&B;, regardless of our differences, and speaking as a lifelong New Yorker, on this we can agree. :-)

Her ability to win NY-23 was never in serious doubt until people from outside the district decided she didn't meet their narrow definition of who can be a Republican.

Again, all I can tell you is what I hear from my family (which is pretty moderate, definitely moreso than me), but they were quite clear that voters there feel very differently about sending someone to Albany vs. Congress. They liked her union connections -- she's married to a union organizer -- and ability to work with Dems for purposes of a statehouse that's eternally dominated by them, but would never have nominated her for a national position. Sort of the same way Rhode Island constantly elects Republican governors (and pretty conservative ones at that -- look at Carcieri) but would never dream of sending one to Washington.

Are you from the region, VLMJ?

We're just not down with Obama's agenda of turning the entire economy into state property, bankrupting the country, and destroying the currency.

I am completely down with this. I'm also hoping for Obama-caused nuclear reactor meltdowns and and Obama-wrought plague of locusts. Also, do we really need all these first born sons? Really?

Yeah, McDonnell winning was a given, but I had no idea that it was going to be this big a landslide, and any leftie who implies that he did is simply lying through his teeth. They've spent the last couple of years going on and on about how Virginia is "going blue", or at worst "purple". It's true that there are a lot of independent voters in this state, but by and large they're still mostly libertarian style, small government pro business independents. We're just not down with Obama's agenda of turning the entire economy into state property, bankrupting the country, and destroying the currency.

FWIW, per Chuck Todd, Obama's current approval rating in VA is virtually identical (51%) to the percentage of the vote he got there (52). (NJ, same thing. 57 vs. 57.1.) Just sayin'.

Should all Florida Republicans just get in line behind Crist because he's governor already, never mind that Rubio has been the top guy in the state house for awhile now? Dude, seriously, WTF?

I assume, based on the principles expressed, that the people spouting the OMG SCOZZA COUP D'ETAT, are also shocked and appalled that Sestak is challenging the more moderate Specter.

Are you from the region, VLMJ?

No. I live in NYC now, but grew up and went to college upstate. I also follow NYS politics avidly, including reading political clips from the Times-Union and newspapers around the state (including the North Country Gazette) regularly but especially around election time.

Scozzafava wasn't to the left of the district, she was to the left of the activist portion of the Repub Base which is not synonymous with the "district" (But you actually seem to know that, mentioning 25%...)

Again, I just can't emphasize enough how wrong this is, to the point of being active misinformation. She was WAY to the left of the GOP voters in her district as far as they're concerned with national races. She would never have won a primary (unless she were facing off against a truly awful opponent).

As an interesting sidenote, I also hear that a lot of people in that district resented the 'nationalization' of the race, all the outsiders like Palin, etc. sweeping in and acting as if the region's local concerns were irrelevant. Dick Armey actually said "local questions are just parochial concerns here," as if NY-23 voters don't have a shitton of serious everyday issues they expect their Congressional candidate to know about and have a good plan for.

I live in NYC now, but grew up and went to college upstate.

Upstate as in ALBANY upstate? Pelham doesn't count. ;-)

Close. Schenectady.

I also follow NYS politics avidly, including reading political clips from the Times-Union and newspapers around the state (including the North Country Gazette) regularly but especially around election time.

Wow, I'm impressed you keep up with it. I've tried on a couple of occasions, and found it just so...awful, I can't do it. Sometimes it seems like each party is trying to top the other in corruption and terrible policy decisions.

As an interesting sidenote, I also hear that a lot of people in that district resented the 'nationalization' of the race, all the outsiders like Palin, etc. sweeping in and acting as if the region's local concerns were irrelevant.

I can definitely understand that. If I lived in NY-23, the national people sweeping in and overwhelming my home districts problems, needs, and wants with their own interests, I'd be royally pissed and would strongly consider voting for Owens or stay home.

FWIW, per Chuck Todd, Obama's current approval rating in VA is virtually identical (51%) to the percentage of the vote he got there (52). (NJ, same thing. 57 vs. 57.1.) Just sayin'.

I don't think the people who voted in 2008 have changed their minds one way or the other WRT Obama(yet)- many who did vote for Obama in 2008, stayed home yesterday, and some who voted for Obama (and would do so again) voted for McDonnell or against Corzine. This may be hard for the partisans to understand (like that better than wingnut/moonbat?), but there are people who split tickets and vote with little regard for party affiliation (Hell yesterday morning I voted for 3 different parties- repub, dem and conservative).

If I lived in NJ I would have voted for Daggett.

Again, I just can't emphasize enough how wrong this is, to the point of being active misinformation. She was WAY to the left of the GOP voters in her district as far as they're concerned with national races.

I think you are having reading comprehension problems, GOP Voters do not equal the district either.

GOP Votes do not equal the electprate as a whole
Dem Voters do not equal the electorate as a whole

Partsians of both stripe seem to have a complete inability to grasp that.

The DISTRICT that you say that she was too far to the left for just elected a democrat for goodness sakes.

Gee whiz, I had absolutely no idea that Chuck Todd was a professional pollster, I thought he was just some schlub reporter for NBC News! Does he have a web site like Nate Silver's with his methodology on there?

I can definitely understand that. If I lived in NY-23, the national people sweeping in and overwhelming my home districts problems, needs, and wants with their own interests, I'd be royally pissed and would strongly consider voting for Owens or stay home.

I know some people who worked for Rick Lazio in 2000- they were/are convinced that the out of staters who swooped in just to attack Hillary in 2000 really killed his campaign (or as one said, carpet baggers coming in to attack a carpet bagger) they completely lost control of the campaign and message. Basically many of the anti-Hillaryites couldn't acre less whether Lazio or Hillary won or lost, they just wanted the emotional gratification of attacking Hillary.

I suspect that many of the outsiders who flocked to Watertown (metaphorically speaking) really didn't care all that much who won the seat in the end- they the TRUE CONSERVATIVES killed the RINO, to them that's more important than what happened afterwards.

Gee whiz, I had absolutely no idea that Chuck Todd was a professional pollster, I thought he was just some schlub reporter for NBC News! Does he have a web site like Nate Silver's with his methodology on there?

Nobody's got a website like Nate Silver's. You got anything in response, other than bloviating?

The DISTRICT that you say that she was too far to the left for just elected a democrat for goodness sakes.

With all due respect, JPWF, a statement like this suggests that you don't know too much about this district. I do. Owens (the Democrat) is to the right of Scozzafava on every national issue, from healthcare (against the Pelosi bill), card-check (against), abortion (100% pro-life), stimulus (opposed), etc. Scozzafava favored all four of these. Of course, we'll see how Owens' position changes under duress from Pelosi and Hoyer once he gets to Washington.

There's a reason Markos Moulitsas endorsed Scozzafava over Owens, calling her "the only progressive choice" for the district. I can't tell you how much I hate the term "RINO," but this time it actually applied in the literal sense.

I will grant you this: NY-23 is a majority REPUBLICAN district but not a sweepingly CONSERVATIVE one. But it's still pretty conservative, which is why Owens instantly becomes the most conservative Democrat in the entire Congress (not an exaggeration, he's farther to the right than any other Blue Dog.)

Basically many of the anti-Hillaryites couldn't acre less whether Lazio or Hillary won or lost, they just wanted the emotional gratification of attacking Hillary.

Lazio killed his own campaign with that insane podium confrontation on Hillary, I don't know what that was.

He's running for Governor in NY, right? He must be hopin' and prayin' Rudy (likely) and Andrew Cuomo (unlikely) stay out of the race.

He must be hopin' and prayin' Rudy (likely) and Andrew Cuomo (unlikely) stay out of the race.

All the projections I've seen of that scenario have Lazio losing to Paterson, an unelected failure of a governor whose approval rating has been stuck in the high teens for months. I mean it's early, but still.

Of course, but the electorate doesn't parse the issues this closely. It seems the pendulum moves on vague notions of satisfaction or dissatisfaction.

I think it's both this and concern with how big the debt is getting as well as local issues.

This is from a yahoo! article:

What’s more, there is an argument that these off-year elections may not have produced an ideological or partisan verdict so much as revealed a deeply aggrieved electorate — ready to rough up incumbents of all varieties.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who previously had been perceived as a highly popular independent, barely fended off a listless and badly outspent Democratic challenge from City Comptroller William Thompson Jr.

I never thought Obama's win meant the whole country was permanently moving left--a lot of people said the Democrats were dead during the Reagan years as well.

A third party nobody that no one had ever heard of a month ago forced the establishment Republican party choice out of the race, and narrowly lost to the Democrat.

A third party no one had ever heard of? Then you don't know New York State politics. The Conservative party has been around since the 1960s, and has had occasional success; sometimes it backs a GOP candidate, sometimes it doesn't. It has occasionally provided the margin of victory for Republican candidates, and sometimes it's even won on its own (James Buckley for U.S. Senate in 1970, beating Goodell's father for RFK's old seat). The Liberal party is now in decline, but at its peak had comparable success (John Lindsay won re-election in 1969 on the Liberal ticket, beating a Republican and Democrat). As a former NY state resident, I applaud potentially having more than the either-or choice most states limit voters to.

Regarding Virginia, it's known as a contrarian state in gubernatorial elections, with a consistent track record of voting in the party that's out of the White House. Also, McDonnell painted himself as a northern Virginia moderate, but will he be in practice what he is in theory? (Deeds won the nomination as sort of an anti-McAuliffe alternative, though in retrospect Moran might have been a stronger foe for McDonnell.) If McDonnell aligns himself with the GOP from outside northern Virginia, which leeches upon that economic engine while giving the north little back in return, you'll see some grumbling and a stronger Democratic candidate in 2013 (who'll probably face Bolling, who won re-election as lieutenant governor). Virginia Republicans can still win office by playing the "family" (e.g. white Protestant suburbanite) card outside northern Virginia, but if Arlington, Fairfax, Prince William and Loudoun don't see significant transportation improvements (not just roads, but mass transit), their reign will be short-lived.

I'd like to take this moment to note that we sort of elected a sort of conservative mayor in Atlanta, but it's not a real election yet. Run-off and all that. But the fact that the machine didn't put Kasim Reed in office outright, and that Mary Norwood actually beat him by seven points, is significant.

But you know, mayoral races are boring.

All the projections I've seen of that scenario have Lazio losing to Paterson, an unelected failure of a governor whose approval rating has been stuck in the high teens for months. I mean it's early, but still.

Ouch, I really can't see any non-convicted felon with a pulse losing to Paterson at this point.

The [New York State] Liberal party is now in decline

There's an understatement. For the last few decades, the Liberal Party has essentially resided in the hip pocket of one Raymond Harding. Since it's fallen off the ballot due to low vote counts and Harding pled guilty last month to corruption charges, I'd say the Liberal Party has flat-lined and the heart monitor has been turned off. Which is a shame because it means the end of one of my favorite NY political aphorisms: "The Liberal Party is neither liberal nor a party." Oh well.

Sam H, will Norwood's failure to avoid a runoff doom her? Will the African-American voters coalesce around Reed and defeat her?