On the surface, it looks like Moore must have found Tony Pena's stash of crazy pills. One of the side effects is an intense negative reaction to Justin Huber.

Part of me really hopes that Sisco is unable to topple the mighty Boone Logan in their spring training LOOGY battle. I'd love a situation where Sisco got the better portion of a season in AAA throwing as many innings as possible. He still has the possibility to make it as a starter.

I read that as White Sox trade Garland to Royals for Sisco and I didn't understand the anti-Moore stuff.

I have voted this the first truly nutso move for Dayton Moore.

-Andrew Sisco had a terrible 2006 granted. But he had a terrific 2005, a terrific minor league record, still throws 93-95 with a decent slider, is still just 24 next season and still has upside. His problems in 2006 are nothing a stint in Omaha this year couldn't fix.

-Ross Gload seems like a decent enough 1B/OF/DH off the bench. He's also 31. He's make a great bench player for a contender. Heck, if we had absolutely no 1B next year, I'd probably be okay starting him for the Royals. But when you already have Ryan Shealy, what's the point? I've heard other Royals fans say Gload can spell Shealy. That's worth giving up Sisco??? Shealy should be playing every day. On the off chance he needs a spell, we have (a) Justin Huber; (b) Mike Sweeney who could still put on a glove on a rare day; (c) Mark Teahen; (d) Alex Gordon.

Gload can also play a corner outfield position, which is great except we already have Mark Teahen, Emil Brown, Reggie Sanders, Justin Huber, Shane Costa, and Joey Gathright all able to play the corner outfield spots, with Mitch Maier, Chris Lubanski and Mitch Maier waiting in the wings.

Sisco has work ethic issues and was utterly hittable in 2006, so if they wanted to trade him, I'm okay with that, but I would have rather traded him for an area of need like shortstop depth or another pitcher, or heck, even a minor league outfielder with upside. The last thing we needed to bring in was a 30 year old 1B/OF/DH type. Ugh, I have flashbacks to Allard Baird.

So are people around here still convinced that Kenny Williams is the worst GM in the division?

Listening to the conference call on Chisox.com, Kenny said the Sox will make another small move by the end of the day. He called a peripheral move that the public wouldn't think was a big deal, but one that they liked internally.

Please, no Sandy Alomar, Kenny!

The only good I can see from this is Dayton must feel he's close to moving Emil Brown and/or Reggie Sanders. Of course, Justin Huber is also probably on his way out. I can't believe we are wasting his talent.

He called a peripheral move that the public wouldn't think was a big deal, but one that they liked internally.

That's odd, they usually don't pickup Roberto Alomar until July.

What doust Garth think?

I realize that he didn't have success in very limited playing time the last couple of years, but is something wrong with Justin Huber?

I love this move, Moore trades from an area of strenght (pitching, in particular high-upside arms) to address an area of need (hitters on the far left of the defensive spectrum).

------------------------------------

I like Moore, but as of right now he's shown NOTHING to prove he's better than even an average GM.
A bunch of even, lateral moves (all of which traded FROM an area of weakness).
You don't win a ring with little, dinky mediocre moves, you win one with big FA's and "#######-A" trades.

I hear Gload looks terrible in the OF too.

I don't even mind trading all these young ptichers (Bautista, Affeldt, Howell, Macdougal, Sisco) but get something good you actually need back.

Royals LF/1B/DH- Shealy, Sweeney, Gload, Teahen, Sanders, Brown, Costa, Maier, Huber...

Royals reliable ptichers- Meche, uh (they don't have jack for pitching prspects either).


Honestly (and I'm a Baird apologist) I think had Baird gotten the anti-meddling clause from Glass, and the increased payroll he'd be doing just as good as Moore.

I don't understand all this hostility, apart from as a continuation of the Meche pile-on. ZIPS has Sisco putting up a 5.16 ERA in 60-something innings, Gload putting up .307/.355/.481. If that's anywhere near to accurate that's pretty nice by Moore, and Gload > Sweeney plus much, much cheaper. Sure, there are other considerations, but I've not seen anything from Sisco to say he's worth more than Gload.

I realize that he didn't have success in very limited playing time the last couple of years, but is something wrong with Justin Huber?

He can't play 1B at all.

of course that's no excuse since the royals have needed a DH quite a bit the last few years.

Moore seems hellbent on building a 71-win team, who's 5-years in the future upside is a 71-win team.

At least Allard strived for greatness, DM wants to be the AL central's pirates.

Hey, doesn't this put the Piazza thing into context - Moore just got a better hitter for about 7mil cheaper for the price of a replaceable, if promising, LOOGY. Looks like .900+ OPS (or at least .900 projected by ZIPS...) players can be easily found!

Hey, doesn't this put the Piazza thing into context - Moore just got a better hitter for about 7mil cheaper for the price of a replaceable, if promising, LOOGY. Looks like .900+ OPS (or at least .900 projected by ZIPS...) players can be easily found!


Obviously, that should be .800+!

uh, bench players don't always put up identical lines when pressed into full-time duty.

Moore got a good bench/platton bat that he has zero use for and has nothing to offer the Royals in the future, he adds to a logjam and blocks young players.
In addition he gave up a young pitcher/trading chip to get him.

Emil Brown's no the team already, and has proven he can hit .800ops when playing everyday.

Hey, doesn't this put the Piazza thing into context - Moore just got a better hitter for about 7mil cheaper for the price of a replaceable, if promising, LOOGY.

Piazza's road stats last year:

Away 62 56 234 220 19 73 15 0 12 40 13 1 38 1 0 0 5 7 0 0 .332 .372 .564 .936

Take him out of Petco and he can still mash. Ross Gload he's not.

Hey, doesn't this put the Piazza thing into context - Moore just got a better hitter for about 7mil cheaper for the price of a replaceable, if promising, LOOGY.

Piazza's road stats last year:

Away 62 56 234 220 19 73 15 0 12 40 13 1 38 1 0 0 5 7 0 0 .332 .372 .564 .936

Take him out of Petco and he can still mash. Ross Gload he's not.

Sisco ate a taco during the first inning of a mexican league game!!!!!

cut him!!!

Sisco ate a taco during the first inning of a mexican league game!!!!!

I know... can you believe, the fringe players are supposed to actually show up.

Sisco wasn't even likely to make the Royals out of spring training...other than his height and large shoe size he doesn't have a whole lot of redeeming qualities as a pitcher. Gload may or may not fit in on the Royals, but giving up Sisco is similar to selling your old Dogs Playing Poker poster at a garage sale.

Just remember Andy...we'll always have that glorious 2005 season!

Williams is certainly piling up arms for the long term. In the past year he's made one big move for pitching:

Chris Young et al. for 3 years of Vazquez

but he's also traded:

Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton
Tyler Lumsden and Daniel Cortes (not bad prospects) for Mike MacDougal
Neal Cotts for David Aardsma
Ross Gload for Andy Sisco

Each of these guys can hit between 95 and 98 on their fastballs. Each of them is under team control for at least 4 years. That's 2/3 of a good bullpen.

Additionally, he traded

Javier Lopez (the crappy one) for one year of David Riske.
One year of Freddy Garcia for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd.

So Williams has been on some kind of pitching depth and bullpen jag for about a year now. The only guys the team might miss are Neal Cotts, Chris Young and possibly Freddy Garcia. Maybe Lumsden and Cortes, too, if either of them pans out. As is, they don't seem like anything special.

Rob n Rany on the Sisco deal.

Hope Sisco enjoys the Comiskey churros.

Dayton Moore clearly hates young relief pitchers.

MacDougal, Affeldt, Bautista, Burgos, Sisco.. all traded under Dayton Moore.

Watch out Jimmy Gobble, you're next!

Gload is clearly going to be around for when Sweeney gets hurt.

Another theory involves Gload starting against LHP.

Which of course means "Buddy Bell will bench Ryan Shealy early and play Gloadie every day"

What doust Garth think?

I think that my fantasy football team has a real good shot to win the playoffs this year. Oh, and this. But from that thread, I think the most accurate reflection of my opinion on the deal comes from Zach: "Gload seems like a fine player. I just don't see the need for him."

ZIPS has Sisco putting up a 5.16 ERA in 60-something innings, Gload putting up .307/.355/.481. If that's anywhere near to accurate that's pretty nice by Moore, and Gload > Sweeney plus much, much cheaper.

Even if ZiPS is perfectly accurate, it doesn't take into account the comparative advantages of this deal. The White Sox need pitching and need talented young folks. The Royals need the same. The White Sox don't need hitting at 1B/DH/Corner-OF. Neither do the Royals. 1B/DH/C-OF Gload goes to the Royals, young P Sisco goes to the Sox. Also, Gload's lack of real power alone, even if Sweeney were as injury-prone as a narcoleptic construction worker, makes Sweeney > Gload at 1B/DH.

Moore seems hellbent on building a 71-win team, who's 5-years in the future upside is a 71-win team.

This is my biggest fear when Moore keeps saying that the Royals don't have a 3-year or 5-year plan. It's all good theoretically, but I am afraid of that blinding him to some of the negative aspects of this deal. Sure, the Royals may pick up half a win for the year in this trade alone, but what does it do down the road (thinking of not only losing Sisco, but negatively affecting Huber, etc.).

Which of course means "Buddy Bell will bench Ryan Shealy early and play Gloadie every day"

I just broke down and silently wept.

Something I observed on the Royal Ingenuity thread: Moore has turned over 25 spots on the 40 man roster since his hiring. That's getting rid of ~15% of the Baird leftovers every month. With that much flux, it's hard to tell whether the logjam in the outfield is real or not. It's hard to turn over 62% of the roster in six months and keep a well-balanced roster the entire time.

uh, bench players don't always put up identical lines when pressed into full-time duty.

Piazza - Away 62 56 234 220 19 73 15 0 12 40 13 1 38 1 0 0 5 7 0 0 .332 .372 .564 .936

Even if ZiPS is perfectly accurate, it doesn't take into account the comparative advantages of this deal. The White Sox need pitching and need talented young folks. The Royals need the same. The White Sox don't need hitting at 1B/DH/Corner-OF. Neither do the Royals. 1B/DH/C-OF Gload goes to the Royals, young P Sisco goes to the Sox. Also, Gload's lack of real power alone, even if Sweeney were as injury-prone as a narcoleptic construction worker, makes Sweeney > Gload at 1B/DH.

Sure, if the argument is that the projection systems are wrong - that Gload won't put up a great platoon year, that Piazza (although I've only seen the PECOTA for him) and Sweeney will be better than him, that Sisco will outperform his projection because there are things we know about him that ZIPS doesn't - I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm just taking lines from a projection system I trust more than any other.

I also said earlier that there were advantages to having Sisco over Gload - his youth, the unpredictability of relievers and his impressive fastball just being some of them.

Still, though, if Dayton Moore wants a platoon-guy or a 1B/DH, ZIPS suggests that Ross Gload (once translated) will be better than most of the other options in the supposed logjam, and that Sisco won't be a great help to the bullpen. Of course, there could be plenty of reasons why ZIPS/PECOTA etc. might be wrong, but if it is right, then I don't think I could be convinced that Sisco for Gload is that lopsided.

In other news, Esteban German's lack of playing time was also due to his love of tacos.

Dayton Moore hates Mexican food.

Dayton Moore traded Jeremy Affeldt because Affeldt loved chalupas.

Dayton Moore released Runelvys Hernandez because Hernandez ate 30 cajun burritos before they had a meeting.

Ambiorix Burgos was a big fan of guacamole.

Still, though, if Dayton Moore wants a platoon-guy or a 1B/DH, ZIPS suggests that Ross Gload (once translated) will be better than most of the other options in the supposed logjam, and that Sisco won't be a great help to the bullpen. Of course, there could be plenty of reasons why ZIPS/PECOTA etc. might be wrong, but if it is right, then I don't think I could be convinced that Sisco for Gload is that lopsided.

I don't question ZiPS's accuracy or usefulness. But I do think that age, salary and position should be considered when weighing a trade's value. So, even if ZiPS is right, Sisco for Gload might not be lopsided, but I don't think it's a good move by Moore. Sure, Gload might be as good or better than Sisco this year, but considering that we're loaded at the positions Gload plays and we're a little short on good, young pitching, I'm not a fan of the move. Additionally, the ages aren't great -- the Royals aren't exactly gunning for the Series this year, but they sure have no problem trading away young potential pieces of a future playoff-run team. That's what makes me think negatively about the trade.

You know, considering that the ChiSox are working for a Series this year and the Royals aren't, the true winners of this trade might be the Cleveland Indians, the Minnesota Twins and the Detroit Tigers, both now and in the future.

-Andrew Sisco had a terrible 2006 granted. But he had a terrific 2005, a terrific minor league record, still throws 93-95 with a decent slider, is still just 24 next season and still has upside. His problems in 2006 are nothing a stint in Omaha this year couldn't fix.

Hmmm ... But did Andrew Sisco really have "a terrific 2005"?

Before continuing I will note in the interests of full and open disclosure that I am a Cub fan. I am well aware of the fact that that may somewhat bias my analysis of a former Cub spirited away by the Rule 5 Draft and now about to start playing for the White Sox. OTOH, it doesn't mean that I'm wrong, either.

Anyway ... In 2005 Sisco had an excellent K rate, a good HR allowed rate, a mediocre WHIP, and a great ERA - he allowed just 26 earned runs in 75+ innings. Pretty darned good for a Rule 5 rookie. BUT ... as detailed in this article: http://www.athomeplate.com/sb92605.shtml, he also allowed 20 inherited runners to score with the second worst inherited runners scored percentage in the Major Leagues. It's hard to say that a middle reliever had a terrific year when he can't prevent inherited runnners from scoring.

A quick look at his splits from 2005 shows how it happened. Batters hit .305/.406/.442 against him during his first 15 pitches; vs . only .180/.264/.261 during his next 15 pitches. That .848 oppponents OPS during the first 15 pitches allowed a heck of a lot of inherited runners to score. The gorgeous .522 OPS for the next 15 pitches prevented a lot of his own runners from scoring and kept his ERA down.

In 2006 his pitch count splits show a similar trend: .307/.412/.504 for the first 15 pitches; and .254/.337/.296 for the next 15. Definitely worse, but not bad enough to explain more than doubling his ERA. I suspect that Mr. Sisco had a very lucky 2006. To be fair I should point out BTW that in 2006 his opponent's OPS went up again after 30 pitches, but with only 20 such ABs I'm not sure how significant that is.

In any case, I think that the statistics show that Sisco tends to need an inning or so to calm down when he pitches - not the most common trait in leading relievers. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be more successful as a starter.

Yeah. Sisco ####### sucks with runners on, and Bell was too stupid to realize that.

A bullpen full of Aardsma, Thorntons, and Siscos is hardly "good."

A bullpen full of Aardsma, Thorntons, and Siscos is hardly "good."

Kenny's strategy is good, though. Neil Cotts showed last year that individual relief pitcher performance can be highly variable (excluding the studs like Rivera). So, Kenny is going to get as many options as he can, and getting cheap ones at the same time. Thornton, Sisco, Aardsma, these guys are all on either their rookie contract or have done poorly enough to not warrant a high salary in arbitration. Plus, he's not giving up anything of real value to his team to get them. It's a pretty good strategy, and it beats dumping a ton of money on Scott Eyre or Arthur Rhodes or someone like that.

This is the first time Aardsma or Sisco will be working with a pitching coach who knows what the heck he's doing. Coop will fix them.

I'm not a huge fan of this, actually. Gload has done nothing but hit his whole career, while the Sox bullpen is now full of high-risk, high-reward ongoing projects. I know that Sisco is young and throws hard, but I don't necessarily see how trading Gload and Cotts for Aardsma and Sisco represents much of an upgrade.

Gload doesn't really fit on the Royals, either.

Oh, well. I suppose that it's better than what I expected for Gload, which was for him to either be non-tendered or lost on waivers.

The reason that this deal is so disturbing to me, beyond the fact that Gload exacerbates the corner logjam, is that Moore went on the record right after he was hired and said that he wanted to build the pitching staff around defense and young power arms. Since taking over, he's traded the two most powerful arms on the roster for a soft-tosser and a corner player that he didn't really need. Where's the consistency of approach?

Oh, well. I suppose that it's better than what I expected for Gload, which was for him to either be non-tendered or lost on waivers.

Guys like Gload are a dime a dozen. Considering that Ozzie barely ever played him anyway, this is really no loss.

Wow. In pitching, the turnover is even more dramatic. From Royals Authority:

There were 12 pitchers on the Royals 2006 Opening Day roster, plus three on the DL for a total of 15. As of this writing, 11 have been wacked by the Godfather. Scott Elarton is on the DL, and might have thrown his last pitch for the Royals. That leaves Jimmy Gobble, Luke Hudson and Zack Greinke as the lone holdovers. They should probably learn to sleep with one eye open.

So when Moore was talking about building a pitching staff around young power arms, in his opinion zero pitchers on the Royals' roster at that time actually fit that model.

I wish I knew what Moore's desired endpoint is. It's clear enough that he didn't like last year's staff at all, but it's hard to see the current staff as anything more than a transitional group of players. I'd like to get some clarity about what the staff will look like when he decides it's time to stop trading.

At Moore's current pace of a deal a week, I'm not even sure what the roster will look like on opening day.

Guys like Gload are a dime a dozen. Considering that Ozzie barely ever played him anyway, this is really no loss.

Well, it's true that the team probably never would have really used him, but he's a pretty valuable player, especially for $600K. I guess he's no big loss, but I'm not excited about Sisco. I don't know that having a bullpen with five guys who can throw 95 but can't find the strike zone is necessarily the greatest thing.

The one nice thing about this is that it opens up a bench slot for Owens or Sweeney or whoever they get for a fourth outfielder.

Grienke for Jason Vargas. Lets do this!

With that much flux, it's hard to tell whether the logjam in the outfield is real or not.

I agree that this MUST mean there are deals close to being made for other outfielders, but I honestly cannot see where. Who needs Reggie Sanders, Emil Brown and/or Joey Gathright and Justin Huber? Where would they fit?

I like Gload a lot and he could put up pretty good numbers if given a chance. That said, this is an unconscionable move by the Royals. They have Huber and Maier who could do this job. Don't they still control Pickering too? Plus there are all kinds of lefty 1b types out there for the asking: Durazo, Pena, Petagine etc. Sisco, like all KC pitchers, was rushed; 4 IP at AAA and none at AA. What did they expect? Chicago will send him to Charlotte for a year and very likely have themselves a lefty starter. They gave up a good player in Gload but they don't need him. Indefensible, and as a Tiger fan I wish Moore would quit returning Kenny W's phone calls. Did Moore dump MacDougal as well or was that Allard?

"I don't understand all this hostility, apart from as a continuation of the Meche pile-on. ZIPS has Sisco putting up a 5.16 ERA in 60-something innings, Gload putting up .307/.355/.481. If that's anywhere near to accurate that's pretty nice by Moore, and Gload > Sweeney plus much, much cheaper. Sure, there are other considerations, but I've not seen anything from Sisco to say he's worth more than Gload."

Its not about is Gload a better player than Sisco...its about is Sisco a better commodity FOR THE ROYALS. and he is.

Gload simply WONT do any better than that Zips projection at any point in his career. Sisco on the other hand could become a good closer or good starter and is, what..a decade? younger.


They dont need 30 year old 1b/LFs with average bats. Not only do they already have a logjam of those and a paucity of great arms but no team in the Royals spot needs to be giving up pitching prospects for 30something averageish bats

Its not about is Gload a better player than Sisco...its about is Sisco a better commodity FOR THE ROYALS. and he is.

Gload simply WONT do any better than that Zips projection at any point in his career. Sisco on the other hand could become a good closer or good starter and is, what..a decade? younger.

Look, I’m not saying Gload for Sisco is a great deal for Moore. It isn’t. I kinda agree with Garth Sears in #31. I’m closest to ‘meh’, though – this is a below-average reliever with potential to be slightly above-average for an average 1B/OF platoon option. That is pretty much as inconsequential as it gets. In those cases, better off with the player you know, for the most part, but hey, a change is as good as a rest. I think you could make the case that both are due a breakout, be it a career .770 OPS OF or a reliever who put up a 7.10 ERA last year.


What I do object to is the Moore’s-gone-mad discussion, which can only spring from either a) a continued pile-on for the slightly bizarro-Meche signing or b) subjective factors that presumably the Royals are better judges of, like ‘potential for a break-out year’ or ‘ability to respond to a new role’.

Simply put, Sisco is not part of the Royal’s next good team. This is his last year of league minimum. If he shows any sort of the breakout year that this thread suggests, he will be paid seven-figure sums from the breakout onwards. He is a left-handed middle reliever, one of the hardest to predict performance of, and thus least reliable. If the Royals aren’t good in three years, he will be gone as a free agent or resigned for big money. If the Royals are good in three years, it won’t be because of a above-average LH reliever.

Sisco is exactly the type of player that the Royals should be trying to trade: players who are young enough to have value but will not be Royals come 2010 when they’ll be trying to get the maximum production out of guys like Gordon, Butler and whoever the next three drafts will bring. Short-term and long-term, they should be moving unreliable pieces for dependable contributions. Whether Gload is the right choice is hardly the point: simply that Sisco is expendable, and if Moore decides he wants a new platoon guy, then Gload’s not a bad one to pick.

If Sisco can become a LH starter, then that’s a different thing entirely. But if I have to choose between giving the benefit of the doubt to the Royals coaching staff or the BTF crowd, I’m going to go with the former. Not trying to be smart or whatever, just that we’ve got ideas how Sisco might convert, but I can’t believe KC haven’t thought about it as a possibility, and decided against it.

The first thing that came to my mind when the deal was announced was remembering how good the Cubs' player development system was early this decade. Sisco, Prior, Zambrano, Patterson, and Choi looked like they were going to be part of the first scary good Cubs team since before World War II -- possibly better than any team with Santo or Banks on it. Not only did that not happen, but it looks as though only Zambrano will reach his potential in a Cubs uniform. What that says about the uncertainty of player development or the particular incompetence of the Cubs' player development system is an open question.

Simply put, Sisco is not part of the Royal’s next good team. This is his last year of league minimum. If he shows any sort of the breakout year that this thread suggests, he will be paid seven-figure sums from the breakout onwards. He is a left-handed middle reliever, one of the hardest to predict performance of, and thus least reliable. If the Royals aren’t good in three years, he will be gone as a free agent or resigned for big money. If the Royals are good in three years, it won’t be because of a above-average LH reliever.


The only problem is that Gload isn't part of the Royals next good team either and he's in the last year of arbitration IIRC. I'm okay with dealing Sisco, but get a younger pitcher, or a minor league outfielder or a shortstop.

Also, I would have been for moving Sisco to the Omaha rotation. His "inherited runner" problem is well documented, and he might be better suited for the rotation, where he pitched as a minorl eaguer.

Also, I would have been for moving Sisco to the Omaha rotation. His "inherited runner" problem is well documented, and he might be better suited for the rotation, where he pitched as a minorl eaguer.

Williams said the Sox may do this with Sisco. From Joe Cowley's Sun-Times article:

'If he sees himself as a starter -- he certainly has the stuff -- or does he see himself as a back-end bullpen guy? We can ease him into that because we certainly have the back end of the bullpen covered. If he sees himself as a starter, we may have to take a step backward and get him to [Class AAA Charlotte]. It's intriguing on both ends. We're going to have to play with this.''

"The only problem is that Gload isn't part of the Royals next good team either and he's in the last year of arbitration IIRC. I'm okay with dealing Sisco, but get a younger pitcher, or a minor league outfielder or a shortstop."

Agreed. This what i meant to say. My main point is that getting Gload is pointless for KC.

"Also, I would have been for moving Sisco to the Omaha rotation. His "inherited runner" problem is well documented, and he might be better suited for the rotation, where he pitched as a minorl eaguer.""

Agreed. I was considering Siscos considerable potential as a starter when i posted