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Monday, August 04, 2008

Yahoo Sports: Passan: Yankees barely contain glee at Ramirez trade

Once word leaked around Yankee Stadium at 4:30 p.m. that Ramirez was headed to the Dodgers, prospects to the Pirates and Jason Bay to the shadow of the Green Monster, players approached one another to see if they’d heard the news. The conversations were spiked with glee. Batting practice turned giddy, if only for a moment.

Not just from the idea of Manny playing for Joe Torre, the longtime Yankees manager now in Los Angeles. It’s difficult, really, to qualify how thoroughly Ramirez hit the Yankees, other than to say: He wasn’t a thorn in their side. He was the whole rose bush.

In 200 games against them, Ramirez hit 55 home runs, the most against any team. No one knew how to solve him. Mike Mussina? Nine home runs in 101 at-bats. Andy Pettitte? A .416 batting average. Chien-Ming Wang? Even better: .536.

“They’re going to be good with or without Manny,” Pettitte said, though he later admitted: “A lot of people like to see him gone.”

Let’s see if Bay can replace those numbers against the Yanks.

Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Marching Through Georgia Posted: August 04, 2008 at 08:05 PM | 14 comment(s)
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1. Repoz

Posted: August 04, 2008 at 10:00 PM (#2890333)

In 200 games against them, Ramirez hit 55 home runs, the most against any team.

Checking only one bush will get you priicked.

Oak-39 in 132 games
Seat-39 in 125 games
T.B.-41 in 153 games
Tort-54 in 190 games
K.C.- 37 in 117 games

2. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: August 04, 2008 at 10:06 PM (#2890350)

Bay was plenty good against the A's this weekend. But then a 2-16 stretch makes a lot of opponents look good.

3. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Marching Through Georgia

Posted: August 04, 2008 at 10:15 PM (#2890385)

In 200 games against them, Ramirez hit 55 home runs, the most against any team.

Checking only one bush will get you priicked.

Oak-39 in 132 games
Seat-39 in 125 games
T.B.-41 in 153 games
Tort-54 in 190 games
K.C.- 37 in 117 games

Yes, and how many games will Ramirez be playing against the Yankees while he's safely tucked away in Los Angeles? An average of one game a year, to be precise.

4. ValueArb Posted: August 04, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2890451)

5. Raskolnikov Posted: August 04, 2008 at 11:59 PM (#2890471)

Wouldn't it be awesome if Manny re-signed with Boston this winter?

6. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: August 05, 2008 at 12:59 AM (#2890497)

The Yankees would rather face a 29 year old for the next two years who is the better player now than a declining 36 year old for the next two months? Sounds like the typical mindset of a third place team that has an 80% chance on whiffing the playoffs this year...

Bay is 9 for 35 career against the Yankees, with a .706 OPS. Manny is 15 for 36 against them this year, with a 1.301 OPS. I would think the Yanks are just fine with taking their chances on Bay.

I'm not sure what the typical mindset of third place teams might be, but having a guy who has regularly killed you for years suddenly leave the league has to be good news even to fifth place teams. Tampa Bay is happy, too, believe me.

7. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Marching Through Georgia

Posted: August 05, 2008 at 05:24 AM (#2890544)

The Yankees would rather face a 29 year old for the next two years who is the better player now than a declining 36 year old for the next two months? Sounds like the typical mindset of a third place team that has an 80% chance on whiffing the playoffs this year...

Pride goeth before the fall, ValueArb. And I'd take my chances with pitching to Bay over Manny for the next year or two. But in any case, my point is admittedly short term. In the long run I think the Red Sox did okay for themselves with that trade.

8. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 05, 2008 at 07:30 AM (#2890580)

Bay's line includes an 0-12 in 2007, when he played hurt all year and didn't hit anyone well. In times when he was healthy, he did fine against the Yanks, and if they expect him to be the guy he was in '07, they're in for a rude shock.

9. TVerik and his cavalcade of whimsy Posted: August 05, 2008 at 07:50 AM (#2890589)

No, I think that they guess him to be a mortal, which Ramirez has not been against the Yanks the last few years. In that time, he was the Highlander.

I also think the Sox did better than OK, considering the probable fact that they had to trade that guy, and the other GMs knew it.

But in the small sample of games remaining against the Yankees in 2008 (and playoffs, but it's kind of hard to imagine these two teams meeting then), as a Yankee fan I feel a lot better about our chances of pitching to Bay than to Ramirez. It was coming to the point where I felt the Yanks ought to walk him in virtually every situation, and I'm not an IBB guy.

10. A Surfeit of Peaches Graham (SdeB) Posted: August 05, 2008 at 08:52 AM (#2890636)

The important thing is that this now sets the bar for Bay's performance. If Bay should underperform these numbers against the Yankees, even by an iota, even in a small sample, he will be excoriated by the Boston press. If, god forbid, it should happen in the playoffs, he'll be ridden out of town on a rail.

11. TVerik and his cavalcade of whimsy Posted: August 05, 2008 at 08:59 AM (#2890641)

I'll expand on that - if Bay fails to get a big hit in a big game at all, against any opponent, the naysayers will immediately yell that Manny would have hit the ball harder.

I think the Boston press will lay low on that issue - they did a pretty spectacular job of uniting to proclaim that Manny was guilty of every crime imaginable, including Regicide.

12. JPWF13

Posted: August 05, 2008 at 09:02 AM (#2890646)

Bay is 9 for 35 career against the Yankees, with a .706 OPS. Manny is 15 for 36 against them this year, with a 1.301 OPS. I would think the Yanks are just fine with taking their chances on Bay.

13. Bobby Bonilla's Annuity (Matt) Posted: August 05, 2008 at 11:24 AM (#2890839)

Just look at the list: Manny, Damon, Pedro Martinez, Wade Boggs, Roger Clemens, Nomar Garciaparra, Mo Vaughn, Jim Rice, Mike Greenwell – all left on less-than-cordial terms.

Fisk anyone?

14. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: August 05, 2008 at 08:21 PM (#2892020)

That reminds me of what that idiot Steve Phillips was blabbing about on the radio this weekend- he claimed that batting numbers against a team were useless because of the high pitching staff turnover teams have... and then he went onto say that how a batter does against a specific pitcher, because if a guy is 9 for 20 or 3 for 20 "you have to know that, it's important"

Admittedly, I am likewise an idiot. However, I was seeking to have my post include text between the lines. Given what they know about Bay (which isn't much) and given what Manny has done, both in the past AND this year, I think the Yankees will be happy to take on Bay, at least this year. The Yankees haven't seen any decline in Manny themselves, and probably weren't all that interested in waiting around for it. in this case, I think it's less a matter of significant sample sizes and more an issue of how many times are you going to continue trying for the cheese when you get shocked every time? Sometimes you're just glad to see some new cheese.

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Monday, August 04, 2008

Yahoo Sports: Passan: Yankees barely contain glee at Ramirez trade

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