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Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Yankee Fan Giuliani Backing Red Sox

In Juan Pizarro World...everything is upside down!

Sounds like a baseball flip-flop. Rudy Giuliani, a lifelong New York Yankees fan, said Tuesday he’s pulling for their most hated rivals, the Boston Red Sox, to win the World Series over the Colorado Rockies.

“I’m rooting for the Red Sox,” the Republican presidential contender said in response to a question, sparking applause at the Boston restaurant where he was picking up a local endorsement.

“I’m an American League fan, and I go with the American League team, maybe with the exception of the Mets,” he said. “Maybe that would be the one time I wouldn’t because I’m loyal to New York.”

..."In Colorado, in the next week or two, you will see, I will have the courage to tell the people of Colorado the same thing, that I am rooting for the Red Sox in the World Series,” he said.

Repoz Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:30 PM | 83 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralBostonColoradoNY Yankees

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   1. Sparkles Peterson  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 11:38 AM (#2590254)
He didn't work 9/11 into this somehow?
   2. DKDC  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 11:40 AM (#2590260)
It's not like I needed another reason to root against the Red Sox (or Guiliani), but I'll take it.
   3. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 11:43 AM (#2590262)
He didn't work 9/11 into this somehow?

well, the Yankees haven't won a WS since then

coincidence? I think not.

(forgetting) al qaeda
   4. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 11:56 AM (#2590280)
Just more proof that Rudy is godless! If he loved Jesus instead of killing babies, he'd pray for the Rockies.
   5. Martin Hemner  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 11:58 AM (#2590282)
Another brick for the argument about the Sox becoming the new Yankees.
   6. will  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 11:59 AM (#2590283)
The nation's first primary is in New Hampshire, home of a large portion of Red Sox nation. The Colarado primary....not so important. Nothing more to this story, then that simple explanation.
   7. Hang down your head, Tom Foley  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:03 PM (#2590289)
Now I'm going to vote against him even harder.
   8. AROM  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:11 PM (#2590295)
He should never be allowed into Yankee stadium again.
   9. aleskel  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:17 PM (#2590307)
everybody knows Giuliani isn't popular in New York already, right?
   10. rsmith51  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:19 PM (#2590309)
While I think the Red Sox will wipe the field with the Rockies, I would really like to see the Red Sox lose. Perhaps Guliani isn't a "True Yankee fan", like ARod isn't a "True Yankee"?
   11. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:21 PM (#2590312)
While I think the Red Sox will wipe the field with the Rockies, I would really like to see the Red Sox lose. Perhaps Guliani isn't a "True Yankee fan", like ARod isn't a "True Yankee"?

But Rudy has a ring! Count Rudy's ringzzzzzzzz!
   12. Uncle Willy  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:30 PM (#2590324)
I never really understood the idea of being an "American League fan" or "National League fan". I know that some time ago, there was a real rivalry between the leagues (also in ragrds to the All-Star Game), but it seems to not make sense anymore. Are any football fans "AFC fans" or "NFC fans"? I haven't heard of any.

In my opinion, a Yankee fan would never root for the Red Sox. Maybe against the Mets, but even then I don't think so.
   13. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:35 PM (#2590331)
Are any football fans "AFC fans" or "NFC fans"? I haven't heard of any.

I haven't either, but I'll spit on any Prince of Wales Conference fan. They're the lowest form of humanity.
   14. Belfry Bob  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:36 PM (#2590333)
Not many voters in Colorado, though I hear they have one heck of a school system.

Actually, Willy, i think there ARE AL and NL fans. As a fan in an AL city, I see the AL players a lot more, and I follow the AL day-to-day, every team. The NL, not so much. I can't recall the last time I rooted for the NL in the WS, I guess when the Braves were playing (long-time Richmonder with a soft place for the Braves after 17 years of watching the AAA club). As much as I dislike what a lot of Red Sox fans are becoming, I'll probably root for them a bit more.
   15. Craig Calcaterra  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:36 PM (#2590336)
Screw the Campbell Conference.

Yeah, I said it. You wanna go?
   16. haven  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:39 PM (#2590340)
“I’m rooting for the Red Sox,” the Republican presidential contender said in response to a question, sparking applause at the Boston restaurant where he was picking up a local endorsement.

“I’m an American League fan, and I go with the American League team, maybe with the exception of the Mets,” he said. “Maybe that would be the one time I wouldn’t because I’m loyal to New York.”


I am a national league fan that generally roots for the national league team. Maybe because I am older and grew up in a national league only city. So that part kind of makes sense to me. That said I am a Pirates fan and there is no real sense of my team having a hated rival at this point. I would definitely root against my hated rival. And for the Yankess I would have to think that would be the Red Sox and Mets. So I would have to root against them.

Unless I had an ulterior motive......

The nation's first primary is in New Hampshire, home of a large portion of Red Sox nation. The Colarado primary....not so important. Nothing more to this story, then that simple explanation.
   17. The Yankee Clapper  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:41 PM (#2590345)
I know that some time ago, there was a real rivalry between the leagues (also in ragrds to the All-Star Game), but it seems to not make sense anymore. Are any football fans "AFC fans" or "NFC fans"? I haven't heard of any.

I think many fans in the NFL v. AFL days took sides, and maintain a degree of preference to this day. Same for baseball, except when the within league rivalry gets so intense that it overwhelms any spirit of league solidarity. Never saw many Boston fans showing any solidarity towards the Yanks, so it's difficult to reciprocate. Put me down as interested but neutral this year.
   18. Guapo  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:49 PM (#2590356)
Teams I've rooted for in the Series:

1984: Tigers
1985: Royals
1986: Red Sox
1987: Twins
1988: Out of country
1989: A's
1990: A's
1991: Neutral
1992: Neutral
1993: Phillies
1995: Neutral
1996: Yankees
1997: Indians
1998: Yankees
1999: Yankees
2000: Yankees
2001: Yankees
2002: Giants
2003: Yankees
2004: Cardinals
2005: White Sox
2006: Tigers

No real pattern there.
   19. SoSH U at work  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 12:59 PM (#2590376)
Rooting for the AL team is my default position, unless the Yankees are involved. The only other times from guapo's list I rooted for the NL were 84 (liked the Pads), 89-90 (didn't like those A's teams) and 93 (liked the Philly bunch).
   20. Answer Guy  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:03 PM (#2590380)
Giuliani? Amazing considering that we in Boston hate the Yankees and that Colorado is a key swing state.

I think I speak for many Red Sox fans when I say that I think I need to go take a shower.
   21. Who wants Teixeira dessert?  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:04 PM (#2590382)
He's full of politcal excrement, I agree. You CANNOT root for your hated rival. What's the point of caring then? If you can make the league argument, then you are not fan enough of your own team. Giants fans are not allowed to root for the Dodgers, Cubs fans are not allowed to root for the Cardinals.
   22. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory)  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:18 PM (#2590398)
Hillary says she's rooting for the Rockies, but if they can't win it, she's Red Sox all the way.
   23. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:23 PM (#2590409)
Hillary says she's rooting for the Rockies, but if they can't win it, she's Red Sox all the way.

If she's not kissing babies, she's stealing their lollipops. (Another good movie! A bit loopy, but good.)

I have to admit, she's figured this politics thing out better than I thought she would. 4 years ago I would have thought you were crazy if you'd said she would beat Rudy in New York. Now I think she'll kick his arse here.
   24. thetailor  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:27 PM (#2590415)
Guapo - isn't that the American League team every season except the season when the AL representative directly beat the Yankees? That's how my friend and I do it. I root for the NL every year (as a Met fan) except in the years when the NL representative is a Mets rival or knocked us out of the postseason (see 2006 Cardinals, any Braves).
   25. aleskel  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:27 PM (#2590416)
4 years ago I would have thought you were crazy if you'd said she would beat Rudy in New York. Now I think she'll kick his arse here.

yes, but like I said before, that has as much to do with Rudy making himself unpopular as it does Hilary politiking.
   26. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:30 PM (#2590425)
yes, but like I said before, that has as much to do with Rudy making himself unpopular as it does Hilary politiking.

True dat, but she's been much smoother at carving out the mushy middle of the political landscape better than I thought she would. It would have been an interesting dogfight if Rudy didn't spend all his goodwill as fast as he possibly could.
   27. Repoz  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:37 PM (#2590436)
I never really understood the idea of being an "American League fan" or "National League fan".

YOU try defending the Pete Wards of the AL world against Richie Allen etc.

It wasn't easy, my friend.

Now, when I finally have my chance for tormential comebackancy...most of those old NL friends have OD'd, died from AIDS or are in prison.
   28. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:40 PM (#2590443)
Who is Ron Paul rooting for?
   29. CrosbyBird  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:42 PM (#2590446)
I root for the NL every year (as a Met fan) except in the years when the NL representative is a Mets rival or knocked us out of the postseason (see 2006 Cardinals, any Braves).

I generally root for the NL, but I especially root for the NL team that eliminated my team earlier in the playoffs when it happens. The idea is that you can claim that you lost to the best team. Especially now, with the AL fans lording it over the NL fans with the JV comments. Nice that our team that squeaked into the playoffs beat the AL rep last year.

This year I was rooting for the Indians because of a miraculous fantasy season a few years back spearheaded by VMart, and my typical "any non-Yankee AL team can't be too bad" was in force. But I'm rooting for the Rockies.
   30. CrosbyBird  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 01:52 PM (#2590458)
I have to admit, she's figured this politics thing out better than I thought she would. 4 years ago I would have thought you were crazy if you'd said she would beat Rudy in New York. Now I think she'll kick his arse here.

You have to be pretty overwhelmingly worse than your opponent to lose NY in the presidential race if you're a Democrat. Only in the 1972 (Nixon, incumbent, pre-scandal), 1980 (Reagan, popular actor vs. fairly despised incumbent), and 1984 (Mondale who? 525-13!) elections did the Empire State vote red.

Elections for mayor and governor are more single-issue voting. Pataki won pretty much on capital punishment. Guiliani won on "tough on crime."
   31. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:00 PM (#2590472)
It would have been an interesting dogfight if Rudy didn't spend all his goodwill as fast as he possibly could.

Leopard, spots.
   32. The Bones McCoy of THT  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:06 PM (#2590475)
I never really understood the idea of being an "American League fan" or "National League fan".


Ditto. I love baseball like I love pizza--put what you like on it: pepperoni, mushrooms, bacon, sweet and hot peppers onion, tomato, DH, double-switch, three-run jacks, bunts and stolen bases, AL, NL, PCL, IL, AA, FSL, Northern League, Frontier League etc.

's all good.

Always had a rooting interest in both leagues: the NL was Montreal (1969-2004) and now Philadelphia. The AL was Detroit (1969-1976) and Blue Jays (1977-present).

Put me in coach, I'm ready to cheer, with my beer. Put me in coach, I'm ready to stay today, put me in I can sit in (the) centerfield (bleachers).

Best Regards

John

Edit: I haven't really decided who I'll be cheering for in the WS this year. I love the Rockies run and am really happy for their fans (and Todd Helton) but I also love watching Manny, Papi and to a lesser extent Mike Lowell--and of course there's that beautiful ballpark.
   33. Hang down your head, Tom Foley  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:09 PM (#2590480)
YOU try defending the Pete Wards of the AL world against Richie Allen etc.

Pete Ward held the White Sox record for career HR by a lefty until the mid-1980s. He's still fourth, which is sad.
   34. rpackrat  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:10 PM (#2590481)
I generaly root for the NL, but as a Mets fan and Yankee hater, I'm rooting for the Sox this time. I figure a Sox win would just be salt in the wounds of Yankees fans. Inflicting pain on Yankees fans is always a good thing, IMHO.
   35. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:10 PM (#2590482)
CrosbyBird, Rudy was immensely popular in NYC after 9/11. He could have written his own ticket, Republican or not. I think his fall in popularity in NYC has been incredible. I was relatively new to New York on 9/11--good timing I have!--so it's very possible I'm underestimating the anti-Rudy feeling that existed here before the attack.
   36. AROM  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:11 PM (#2590483)
You have to be pretty overwhelmingly worse than your opponent to lose NY in the presidential race if you're a Democrat. Only in the 1972 (Nixon, incumbent, pre-scandal), 1980 (Reagan, popular actor vs. fairly despised incumbent), and 1984 (Mondale who? 525-13!) elections did the Empire State vote red.


That doesn't seem too unlikely. 3 out the last 9 presidential elections. So the odds NY goes red is about the same as the odds Wade Boggs gets a hit in any given atbat.

Still, Hilary will eat Rudy for lunch if the republicans are dumb enough to nominate him.

I for one welcome our new reptilian overlady.
   37. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:11 PM (#2590485)
I never really understood the idea of being an "American League fan" or "National League fan". I know that some time ago, there was a real rivalry between the leagues (also in ragrds to the All-Star Game), but it seems to not make sense anymore. Are any football fans "AFC fans" or "NFC fans"? I haven't heard of any.

I will root for the AL and AFC team, all other things being equal.

This year, things are not equal. Go Rockies!
   38. Sparkles Peterson  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:12 PM (#2590487)
I could never root for the Mets or Cubs, but otherwise I pull for the NL representative. For the Subway series, I was rooting for large chunks of space debris to fall out of the sky.
   39. rpackrat  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:13 PM (#2590488)
CrosbyBird, Rudy was immensely popular in NYC after 9/11.


shooty, Rudy was immensely unpopular in NY on 9/10. The temporary nature of his surge was very foreseeable to anyone who watched the decline in his popularoty over the previous couple of years. His authoritarianism was well-suited to the fear that immediately followed 9/11, but it was also the reason NYers already hated him. Once people returned to a more or less normal state, it was very easy to start disliking him again.
   40. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:15 PM (#2590490)
I for one welcome our new reptilian overlady.

You know,. I'm not a fan of hers--I think she lacks conviction--but I think she'll be competent and I think she'll put competent people in charge of the various agencies. At this point, I'll take it. Screw leadership, I want competence!

Oh yeah, go Sawx. I usually root for the original AL or NL teams in a series against an expansion upstart.
   41. Gamingboy  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:15 PM (#2590491)
I don't like political threads. But I have to say this here:


What a flip-flop!
   42. rpackrat  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:16 PM (#2590494)
Agreed. Hillary's about my 6th choice among the Democratic field, but I'd take her in a heartbeat over any of the Republicans.
   43. aleskel  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:16 PM (#2590495)
Once people returned to a more or less normal state, it was very easy to start disliking him again.

that, and Bloomberg has mayored circles around him. If Giuliani had even one ounce of the decency Bloomberg has demonstrated, we might have a real horserace between him and Hilary.
   44. rpackrat  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:16 PM (#2590496)
43 was responding to 41.
   45. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:20 PM (#2590498)
43 was responding to 41.

What did W say to his dad?
   46. Superunknown Gary Geiger Counter  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:22 PM (#2590502)
Who's Ivan Boesky rooting for? Milken is a Dodger fan, no?
   47. Fat Al  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:23 PM (#2590505)
Schmuck
   48. AROM  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:28 PM (#2590510)
Teams I've rooted for:

1981 Yankees
1982 Cardinals
1983 Phillies
1984 Neutral
1985 Cardinals
1986 Mets
1987 Cardinals
1988 Dodgers
1989 Neutral
1990 Reds
1991 Braves
1992 Blue Jays
1993 Neutral
1994 Expos
1995 Braves
1996 Braves
1997 Marlins
1998 Yankees
1999 Yankees
2000 Yankees
2001 Yankees
2002 Angels
2003 Yankees
2004 Cardinals
2005 Astros
2006 Cardinals
2007 Rockies
   49. Superunknown Gary Geiger Counter  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:34 PM (#2590516)
I must admit that I rooted for New York in '01. I jinxed them, I suppose. The only time I recall really really getting onto a WS that didn't involve the Red SOx was '85. Some kid from Overland Park was in my brother's class that year, so we got caught up in Royals Fever.
   50. Charlie O  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:48 PM (#2590529)
I never really understood the idea of being an "American League fan" or "National League fan". I know that some time ago, there was a real rivalry between the leagues (also in ragrds to the All-Star Game), but it seems to not make sense anymore. Are any football fans "AFC fans" or "NFC fans"? I haven't heard of any.


I root for the old AFL teams in the NFL, I root for the old ABA teams in the NBA and I root for the AL to beat the NL almost without exception. Old loyalties don't die easily.
   51. SoSH U at work  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:56 PM (#2590543)
AROM,

Why'd you flip on the Braves-Yankees from 96 to 99?
   52. A Surfeit of Peaches Graham (SdeB)  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 02:56 PM (#2590544)
Both an NL and and NFC fan, though as a Patriots fan I'll root for them if they are in, and will root against the Cowboys, regardless.
   53. Alex_Lewis  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:00 PM (#2590548)
I'm in a bit of a pickle because I live in Colorado and yet hate the Rockies. Because I'm not running for public office, I will silently but vehemently root against them while simultaneously hoping for good games.

Though a lot of my hatred for the Rockies has to do with the fact that they were a failure franchise that did nothing but screw the Giants. This recent run has eased that first point so I suppose I can like them a little bit. We'll see how the series goes. A peppy performance always brings a twinkle to my eye.
   54. AROM  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:01 PM (#2590550)
Why'd you flip on the Braves-Yankees from 96 to 99?


I think I got tired of the Braves around that time, and the Yankees sort of grew on me. I was more indifferent to the Yankees in 1996, but the 1998 team probably did the most to awaken the Yankee fan in my blood (family is all from central NY).
   55. chris p  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:03 PM (#2590553)
though as a Patriots fan I'll root for them if they are in,

heh. "if"
   56. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:08 PM (#2590562)
I was more indifferent to the Yankees in 1996, but the 1998 team probably did the most to awaken the Yankee fan in my blood

If not for Jim ####### Leyritz, the Braves would be a dynasty proper. Man, #### rafael belliard too.
god, i am depressed. can i get the 99 nlcs decider with the mets anywhere online?
   57. Alex_Lewis  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:15 PM (#2590576)
As a Braves fan has spoken, I must direct your attention to the 1993 season where both the Giants and Braves won 103 games, with the Giants losing out on the post season due to a Neifi Perez homer... And The Braves making it because the Rockies went an improbable 0-16 against them during the season... So if not for a Neifi Perez homer and statistical probability...

Now I remember why I hate the Rockies... And the Braves.
   58. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:16 PM (#2590582)
As a Met fan, I always root for the NL team. Of course, if Cleveland had made it to the World Series against the Phillies or Diamondbacks, I wouldn't have minded the Indians winning it all since it has been 60 years since they have done that.

When I lived in NY years ago, I would support the Yanks if they made it, but I could care less about them now.
   59. Toolsy McClutch  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:42 PM (#2590656)
Cocktober?
   60. villageidiom  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:47 PM (#2590671)
That said I am a Pirates fan and there is no real sense of my team having a hated rival at this point.

Only the sands of time.
   61. hardrain  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 03:49 PM (#2590677)
Politics makes strange RED fellows
   62. CrosbyBird  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 04:07 PM (#2590706)
shooty, Rudy was immensely unpopular in NY on 9/10. The temporary nature of his surge was very foreseeable to anyone who watched the decline in his popularoty over the previous couple of years. His authoritarianism was well-suited to the fear that immediately followed 9/11, but it was also the reason NYers already hated him. Once people returned to a more or less normal state, it was very easy to start disliking him again.

1993 was a "crime" election. NYC was a very different place and Rudy represented a bulldog mentality that people wanted. It was about feeling safe at night. It was also a make-up for the 1989 election, where Rudy lost to Dinkins by the narrowest margin in a mayoral election in NY in history and the promise Rudy made in 1989 about crime not getting better under Dinkins appeared to be true (but was actually not true, crime dropped).

In 1997, Rudy was still very well liked. He won the election pretty handily, although it was one of the lowest turnouts for an election. The Democrats put up Messinger, who was an awful candidate and she got murdered.

Ultimately, Rudy was a victim of the change in the city (put aside the debate of whether he was the cause or the beneficiary of it). When you're afraid to walk the streets at night, you don't care as much about a little extra aggressive police tactics (particularly if you are white and middle or upper class). As the fear subsides, you stop wanting that type of leader.

Then 9/11 came and it was the most terrifying thing New Yorkers experienced in my lifetime. Perhaps the Son of Sam murders were more frightening because of how they dragged out over time but I wasn't alive then.

I really dislike Guiliani, but it's primarily because of the sentiment made clear in this quote:

Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.
   63. Joe C and the Pop Culture Portmanteau  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 04:10 PM (#2590716)
This is a fun game

1986 Red Sox
1987 Twins
1988 Dodgers
1989 Neutral
1990 Reds
1991 Braves
1992 Braves
1993 Phillies
1994 World Series Cancelled
1995 Braves
1996 Braves
1997 Marlins
1998 Padres
1999 Braves
2000 World Series Cancelled
2001 DBacks
2002 Giants
2003 Marlins
2004 Red Sox
2005 Astros
2006 Tigers
2007 Red Sox
   64. nick swisher hygiene  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 04:11 PM (#2590717)
Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.


Rudy puts it in a particularly obnoxious way, of course; but the philosophical substance of the statement could, I think, only be opposed by an extreme libertarian....
   65. Gonfalon Bubble  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 04:18 PM (#2590725)
1993 was a "crime" election. NYC was a very different place and Rudy represented a bulldog mentality that people wanted. It was about feeling safe at night. It was also a make-up for the 1989 election, where Rudy lost to Dinkins by the narrowest margin in a mayoral election in NY in history and the promise Rudy made in 1989 about crime not getting better under Dinkins appeared to be true (but was actually not true, crime dropped).

Actually, 1993 was all about a "should we secede from NYC?" proposal on the Staten Island ballot. Guiliani lost narrowly to Dinkins in '89, then won narrowly in '93. The secession vote led to an increased voter turnout in Staten Island-- the whitest and most conservative area of the city-- which accounted entirely for the margin of reversal. And since 1993, when that proposal passed in a landslide, there hasn't been any move whatsoever for Staten Island to secede, nor a whiff of further discussion about it.
   66. villageidiom  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 04:24 PM (#2590739)
Sixty-something posts later, and nobody has said, "He's a uniter, not a divider!" Huh.
   67. CrosbyBird  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 04:31 PM (#2590749)
Rudy puts it in a particularly obnoxious way, of course; but the philosophical substance of the statement could, I think, only be opposed by an extreme libertarian....

I cannot fathom the level of trust in any government that is sufficient for that quote to be less than horrifying.

Especially the words "a great deal."
   68. nycfan  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 04:42 PM (#2590767)
I know a lot of Democrats who aren't really that into politics that have said they wouldn't mind Giuliani because "he's not a real Republican" because of his stances on abortion, gay marriage, guns, etc. I think they're out of their minds. Giuliani scares me more than any other Republican candidate. He reminds me of Cheney.
   69. Mark R. Garber  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 05:17 PM (#2590811)

I cannot fathom the level of trust in any government that is sufficient for that quote to be less than horrifying.


I wouldn't be able to fathom it myself, but considering how many of the smarter-than-average people on this site suddenly come late to the civil libertarian party when they find the government reading people's library checkout list and then turn around and prematurely, uh, excite themselves at the prospect of ceding medical and financial decisions to the government, I would be surprised if less than 95% of the population didn't find that quote to be horrifying. At least, that is, if they think it was said by a person whose political affiliation matched their party affiliation.
   70. DosRafaels  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 07:20 PM (#2590896)
I know a lot of Democrats who aren't really that into politics that have said they wouldn't mind Giuliani because "he's not a real Republican" because of his stances on abortion, gay marriage, guns, etc. I think they're out of their minds. Giuliani scares me more than any other Republican candidate. He reminds me of Cheney.


I'm in the same boat. Mitt has as much principle as Bud Selig at an All-Star game, and Fred Thompson is about as passionate about politics as Garrett Anderson in left, but I'd take both any day over Rudy whose Presidency I suspect will involve a great deal of yelling and insulting people as much as possible. Oh and using the memory of 9/11 to invade the Turks & Caicos for more beachfront property.
   71. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Marching Through Georgia  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 07:51 PM (#2590918)
I root for the Yanks first but the AL team as a backup, no matter which team it is. You almost had to grow up in the 50's and 60's to understand this, but watching the AL trash the NL whenever it can is like seeing a childhood bully turn into a 50 year old paraplegic. You just enjoy the show.

The Red Sox? Hell, they make the game interesting. And how can you hate a team with Papi and Manny? Measuring the Yanks against the Indians or the Angels just doesn't make it, no matter how good those teams may be in any given year. Give them a few years and they'll be back where they belong.

And I don't root against teams, only against owners (Dan Snyder) and regions (any Sun Belt team, since no matter how big they get no Sun Belt city deserves baseball). The Bay Area is sort of on the 50 yard line, but since it gets pretty cold out there in the Summer, rooting for any of those teams is OK.

Maybe this is all BS, but none of the above makes any more or less sense than claiming that to be a "true" fan you have to "hate" this team or that team. Nothing about fandom is, or should, be rational.
   72. AndrewJ  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 08:23 PM (#2590951)
In early 1999 I attended the NYC chapter meeting of SABR, held at the Brooklyn Public Library. One of the speakers mentioned that Rudy had always said he'd grown up as "the biggest Yankee fan in Brooklyn." The guy sitting next to me nudged me in the ribs and whispered, "No... he was the biggest a--hole in Brooklyn!"
   73. Rich Rifkin I  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 09:01 PM (#2590982)
Rudy was immensely unpopular in NY on 9/10.
This is a popular myth, spread by left-wing partisans. But according to a Quinnipiac poll, taken July 17-23, 2001, and released on July 25, 2001, Rudy was liked by a plurality of New York City residents. Only 36 percent disliked him at that time.

The only identified group on July 25, 2001 which had a majority unfavorable rating of Giuliani's job performance was "blacks." Overall, when this question, "Do you approve or disapprove of the way Rudolph Giuliani is handling his job as Mayor?," was asked, Rudy was rated favorably by 50-40%.

Of course, after 8 years in office, he was less popular on 9/10 than he was when he was at his peak a few years earlier. Many people were tired of his act, and his personal life was screwed up. But that means little, as just about every outgoing president and governor, after 8 years, has shot his wad so to speak and has lost his luster.

His popularity just after 9/11 means little in the long run, as that was more of a spontaneous popular reaction in a crisis situation. (GW Bush, also, was immensely popular in the weeks after 9/11, and all that shine has faded.) But there is no truth to the fable that Rudy was immensely unpopular on 9/10/01.
   74. Zooooooook (jonathan)  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 09:53 PM (#2591021)
Fun game indeed.

1997 Marlins
1998 Padres
1999 Yankees
2000 Mets
2001 Diamondbacks
2002 Yuck
2003 Marlins
2004 Cardinals
2005 Didn't really care
2006 Tigers
2007 Rockies


I was 10 in 97, so that's about when I started really caring. As an A's fan, 2002 was particularly awful for me (I don't mind the Giants so much anymore, but at that time there was a nice little Bay Area rivalry over who had the better team), and I was really, really bored by both teams in 05.
   75. walt williams bobblehead  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 10:03 PM (#2591023)
I'm surprised that Guliani hasn't announced yet that his favorite sports are actually NASCAR and bass fishing.
   76. Confined to the Halls of Congers (formerly Y...)  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 10:30 PM (#2591032)
The only identified group on July 25, 2001 which had a majority unfavorable rating of Giuliani's job performance was "blacks." Overall, when this question, "Do you approve or disapprove of the way Rudolph Giuliani is handling his job as Mayor?," was asked, Rudy was rated favorably by 50-40%.

Of course, you left out the fact that that same poll has him at a 39% favorability rating. And regardless, I would guess his unfavorable ratings in NY are much higher now given his handling of a lot of the post-9/11 issues and the stuff that's come out about his mishandling of safety issues before 9/11.
   77. Rich Rifkin I  Posted: October 23, 2007 at 11:47 PM (#2591077)
And regardless, I would guess his unfavorable ratings in NY are much higher now given his handling of a lot of the post-9/11 issues
This is not true, also, at least in terms of how Giuliani is rated by Republican voters in New York. In the most recent Quinnipiac poll, which was done in June, Rudy was quite popular:

Giuliani 46%
F. Thompson 14
McCain 8%
Gingrich 6%
Romney 3%
Undecided 14%

Does that mean that Democrats would vote for him? No. I would guess that Hillary would trounce Rudy statewide. But I still have not seen any evidence which suggests what you claim. Giuliani remains a relatively popular New Yorker among New Yorkers, particularly for a Republican.
   78. Baldrick  Posted: October 24, 2007 at 01:53 AM (#2591100)
“I’m an American League fan, and I go with the American League team, maybe with the exception of the Mets,” he said. “Maybe that would be the one time I wouldn’t because I’m loyal to New York.”


But this is precisely opposite. If you're a Yankees fan you're supposed to root AGAINST the Mets. And the Red Sox, obvi.

I would bet that this shameless attempt to pander will turn off far more Red Sox fans than it will appeal to. We don't want Yankees fans to like us - we want them to seethe with envy that we've done better than them. Especially since support from a Yankees fan can so easily feel like pity (less so after 04, but still...). And it's just so contrary to the whole spirit of fandom that it offends me as a fan of sport in general almost as much as it does as a Red Sox supporter.

I was aware of baseball prior to 88, but not enough to really pay attention to the Series while it was going on. I do remember visiting family in Boston the summer of 86 and then being very excited about the Sox, so insofar as I supported anyone then, it was them.

1988 A's (my older brother was a big A's fan, so I bandwagoned these 3 years)
1989 A's (do people remember where they were when they heard about the quake? We were having dinner at a Golden Corral and turned on the game on the drive home only to find out)
1990 A's
1991 Twins
1992 Blue Jays
1993 Blue Jays
1995 Braves
1996 Braves
1997 Marlins
1998 Padres
1999 Braves
2000 Mets
2001 Diamondbacks
2002 Giants (I was still a big Bonds fan at the time. Meh)
2003 Marlins
2004 Red Sox
2005 Astros
2006 Tigers (my first Little League team was the Tigers, and I lived in Michigan for a year)
2007 Red Sox

Most of these are pretty loose rooting interests, except for supporting the Red Sox and supporting anyone playing the Yankees.
   79. bibigon  Posted: October 24, 2007 at 02:07 AM (#2591104)
I've been on the fence with Giuliani for some time now. While I am concerned he might be a fascist, his bold stand on this issue has convinced me he's the right man for the job. I too, support the Red Sox in this World Series. It just proves how much we have in common.
   80. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy  Posted: October 24, 2007 at 07:20 AM (#2591160)
But this is precisely opposite. If you're a Yankees fan you're supposed to root AGAINST the Mets.


Again, I supported the Yanks when I lived in NY when the Mets didn't make it. There's no rule against it.
   81. rpackrat  Posted: October 24, 2007 at 02:41 PM (#2591782)
From the Qunnipiac poll cited by Rich Rifkin: "By a 39 - 36 percent margin, New York City voters have a favorable opinion of Mayor Giuliani, with 23 percent mixed and 2 percent saying they don't know enough to form an opinion."

An incumbent mayor who is viewed favorably by only 39% of his constituents is unpopular, Rich. I guess it's just all those left wing partisans responding to the poll.
   82. rpackrat  Posted: October 24, 2007 at 02:42 PM (#2591786)
Of course, popularity is relative. At this point, Bush would be thrilled to be viewed favorably by 39% of the country.
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