Well played by the Yankees.

Best Regards

John

I think the Yankees have to do this. It's not in their interest, nor Boras's or his client's, to leave the Rangers' $30mm on the table. Anyway, given that the Yankees won't be in the playoffs, there will be plenty of time between the end of the season and 11/10 to see if there is something to be worked out.

It's not in their interest, nor Boras's or his client's, to leave the Rangers' $30mm on the table.

You're right, and that's what'll make this situation so interesting.

Boras has already thrown out the number $30 million a year out there. The rub is, I'm not sure that there's a team in baseball besides the Yankees that could and would consider paying that much to just one player, even someone as good as he is. I'll bet even the Yankees probably choked a little when they heard that number.

SEE YA

I like this move, too.

I think the Yankees may well be the only team that could have leverage in a situation like this. If the Yankees threats aren't idle ones, Boras knows full well that absent the Yankees as a "stalking horse" other teams don't have to worry about bidding against the seemingly bottomless pit of money that is the Yankee empire.

Granted, due to Jeter, the Yankees weren't major players in 2000 for A-Rod but it didn't stop Boras from getting the now legendary 252 from Tom Hicks.

I wonder if [non-Yankee] owners/GM's are going to be more leery about dealing with Bo-Rod after seeing what happend with Tom Hicks.

It'd be hilarious if the Yankees stuck to their guns and Rodriguez ended up with less than $27 mil/year on his next deal--the spin from their camp on what happened my well be the greatest piece of fiction ever penned. It's entirely possible since they're not dealing with an amazing talent just coming into his prime years, they're dealing for an amazing talent's decline phase.

Best Regards

John

I agree, John, and I'd love the idea even more if the Sox announced they were uninterested.

It'd be hilarious if the Yankees stuck to their guns and Rodriguez ended up with less than $27 mil/year on his next deal--the spin from their camp on what happened my well be the greatest piece of fiction ever penned. It's entirely possible since they're not dealing with an amazing talent just coming into his prime years, they're dealing for an amazing talent's decline phase.

Cosmic justice or no, I'm fairly sure that A-Rod bolting town is a pretty crummy end result for the Yanks. A-Rod might be in his "decline phase," but he's also on pace to hit about 300 home runs this season, and deep analysis of cost/benefit notwithstanding, you don't lose those homers and shrug it off.

So, yeah, Cashman can cross his arms and stand on principle and laugh the laugh of the just when A-Rod signs for only $24 million this off-season. And once he's done with that, he can get to work replacing Alex Rodriguez.

What possible reason would the Sox make such an announcement? He'd fit quite nicely at third in Boston next year. If nothing else, their interest in Arod would force the Yankees to pay a premium to keep him.

Has Boras said anything about the years he's looking for at 30 per?

I agree, John, and I'd love the idea even more if the Sox announced they were uninterested.

even if they aren't interested (Arod isn't interested in them either), announcing their disinterest would aid the yanks, and they dont want to do that.

Has Boras said anything about the years he's looking for at 30 per?

Brattain has an utterly brilliant article devoted to this.

What possible reason would the Sox make such an announcement? He'd fit quite nicely at third in Boston next year. If nothing else, their interest in Arod would force the Yankees to pay a premium to keep him.

You mean shortstop.

A-Rod is one of those players i can't stay rational about. I hate the asshat so much I coudln't stand having to CHEER for him. With Slappy McBluelips, Mine, Ugly Canadian Stripper, and "I'm going to play for Dominican NO I'm going to play for US!", I've had enough of Alex Rodriguez for a lifetime.

I hope he goes to the NL.

And once he's done with that, he can get to work replacing Alex Rodriguez.

Can't they just shift Jeter to third? ;-)

Best Regards

John

Brattain has an utterly brilliant article devoted to this.

Link?

Yankees opt to give A-Rod an ultimatum


We pay you a lot of money for extension now, or we pay you a lot of money later. Take it all leave it!

But he has ten days after the World Series end, so what's the big deal if he wants to talk about it after the season ends. Blah blah blah.

And if it's brilliant, I'm interested in Brattain article too.

I don't like A-Rod at all, but he makes a lot of sense for the Red Sox. They have an impending vacancy at 3B, a gaping wound at SS, a 1B who can play 3B and possibly an upcoming opening in LF (in case A-Rod's defense deteriorates).

I don't really know what the Red Sox financial situation is going forward, and I'm not personally psyched to see A-Rod in Boston. But with the Red Sox/Dodgers/Cubs/Angels all possibly involved, I don't think the Yankees can get all that comfortable or cute here.

Did I say I expect the Sox to announce their lack of interest?

I've been wondering if the Rangers would have any grounds to contest an extension, given their $$$$ contribution. You never know what provisions are in the contract, or in the general rules for MLB contracts, or not addressed at all, that could make this a can of worms.

You did not, JC, but you seemed to imply that you thought that was at least a possibility. Otherwise, you could have written, "and I'd like the idea even more if A-Rod cried uncle and agreed give the Yankees back 30 million dollars of their money." If it's not going to happen, why mention it?

Link?

Brainwashing by Boras

And since I'm an attention whore....

Treating Barrynoia

Best Regards

John

You did not, JC, but you seemed to imply that you thought that was at least a possibility. Otherwise, you could have written, "and I'd like the idea even more if A-Rod cried uncle and agreed give the Yankees back 30 million dollars of their money." If it's not going to happen, why mention it?

When did everyone get so thick? B/c, I'd like this risky idea even more if my team's bitterest rival and toughest competition took themselves out of the running for one of baseball's best players. WTF is wrong with you people?

"I'd like this risky idea even more if my team's bitterest rival and toughest competition took themselves out of the running for one of baseball's best players."

That's fine. And no one else here thinks that's going to happen. I guess you agree.

Next topic?

I Heart Brattain

It'd be hilarious if the Yankees stuck to their guns and Rodriguez ended up with less than $27 mil/year on his next deal--the spin from their camp on what happened my well be the greatest piece of fiction ever penned.

A-Rod could still profit more in the long run by opting out even if the average annual value of his new contract is worth something south of $27mm/year. At 31 and in MVP form, he could command a 7-8 year deal this offseason that should be worth at least close to $27 a year. If he doesn't opt out, he'll hit the market at 34 and could earn potentially much less than that if he gets hurt or ages faster than expected. It may be more risky for him to stay in his deal.

This is a smart tactic by the Yanks, but Boras can probably read the situation well enough to surmise it is likely a bluff. The Yanks would be humiliated if he goes to Boston and Boras knows it. It all comes down to whether he is confident whatever they offer as an extension is better than what he'd get on the open market, and he'll probably draw out the process until 11:00-11:59 PM on the las day of the window after the world series ends, unless Cashman convincingly makes a good offer that has a firm expiration date before that. It's actually a bit reminiscent of the Matsuzaka negotiations, although the deadline is somewhat less intrinsically final.

Why does everyone think Boston and ARod is even a possibility?

That SI article, where they called him very odd or some such thing, for wearing a suit when they came to his hotel room at the winter meetings at 1 AM. Where did the writer get that information? It wasn't from Boras, and it wasn't from Arod. It was from Larry or Theo.

Does anyone remember this? Because I know Arod does. They tried to trash him. Schilling made it a point after they won in 2004 to say on the radio that Boston would not have won with Arod in the lineup.

I would be shocked if Arod went to Boston.

Great stuff on those two articles, John.

I would be shocked if Arod went to Boston.

Me too. I'd say both Chicago teams, the Angels, the Giants, the Phillies and possibly the Orioles and Dodgers would all jump into the bidding. I wouldn't even rule out the Cardinals or Braves though they both seem very unlikely. Anybody I'm missing? Do new owners still get to write off player contracts as a depreciation? If so, the new Cubs owner would have a real incentive to make a play and A-Rod could try to accomplish in Chicago what I think he wanted to accomplish in Boston.

SJ, never underestimate the power of the almighty dollar to heal all these wounds.

He will go to whoever makes the best offer. The only relevant question is how much can and will each team offer, especially if the individual team has to shoulder the entire burden of what promises to be a very big contract.

SJ, never underestimate the power of the almighty dollar to heal all these wounds.

Sure, if Boston offers 6/180, and everyone else is offering 7/150, he would take Boston's offer. But at this point, I don't think he would take an offer from Boston that was only marginally better than Anaheim or San Fran's.

I would be shocked if Arod went to Boston.


I wouldn't in the least should the Yanks not pony up the cash needed for the extention. Green tends to salve a lot of wounds.

As previously discussed, the Sox have the need, the Sox have the money, and Kid Theo likes bright and shiny things. Remember how much money they just pissed away in overbidding on the Dice-K contract.

And if anything, one would hope that if it looked like a deal could be done, then Luccino would step in for the negotiation. Last time, they tried to get too clever and became penny wise and pound foolish. Lucchino is more of a match for the likes of Boras, who was all too happy to say thanks kid and take King George's money.

I'm sure Boras would be happy to take John Henry's money if the Tampa mafia doesn't want to bid. I'm sure he could get the Angels (EDIT) to drive up the price. Other teams will be happy to token bid, but they may not be able to afford it.

Its a nice PR move by the Yanks, but I doubt Boras is really affected by it. He knows the market. He'll have Arod opt out if he thinks there is a better deal for Arod (and longer for less money is better).

I don't think it will happen though. I think that Cashman just has his nuts in a vice. If the Yanks have a bad season this year, don't pay for Arod, see him go to the Sox and florish, and have a subpar season next year, he is as dead as Duquette. He can point to the ginormous HR totals to justify about any extention he signs with Arod. I think he's hellishly motivated to get a deal done.

SJ, never underestimate the power of the almighty dollar to heal all these wounds.

He will go to whoever makes the best offer.

Absolutely. And if it gets to the point where he's opted out, and the Yankees aren't bluffing (two big "ifs"), then it's certainly quite possible that the Red Sox would present the best offer.

The only way this really gets interesting, I think, is if the Yankees actually make it to the World Series. If the Yankees and Boras have sufficient time between the end of their season and the opt-out date to craft a deal, it'll happen. I can't believe another team would be willing to outbid the Yankees by $30M for A-Rod -- it just makes no sense. And Boras has to know that. As long as the Rangers' $30M is in the mix, the only thing that makes sense for both sides is an extension. If A-Rod doesn't want negotiations during the season, and the Yankees say they won't bid if/when he opts out, that means the time in between is when it WILL get done. Unless there isn't enough time . . . which could only happen if the Yankees make the World Series.

Last time, they tried to get too clever and became penny wise and pound foolish. Lucchino is more of a match for the likes of Boras, who was all too happy to say thanks kid and take King George's money.

You would have a hard time convincing me Larry Lucchino was uninvolved with the previous negotiations.

My guess is that the Yankees and Boras are negotiating, but they don't want to disclose it because they want to prevent the media from seeking daily reports on their progress.

AROD is a businessman and will go with the best deal made available by Boros. Here's hoping he gets his money and AGAIN goes to a team like the Rangers, however, I don't they will make the same mistake twice. Is he worth 30M+? Depends on the definition of worth, If an owner is stupid enough (Tom Hicks) to sign players to these outrages amounts setting the market for other players then I guess. Hicks completely went overboard with ARod, Chan Ho Park, Juan Gonzalez, Blalock and others.

Here's hoping he gets his money and AGAIN goes to a team like the Rangers, however, I don't they will make the same mistake twice.

You mean sign with a team that won the division three of the previous four years?

Is a sign and trade possible here?

No one wants to leave that Texas money on the table but what if another teams wants A-Rod more than the Yankees? Could the Yankees sign him to an extension and then trade him to another team and keep the Texas money coming? The Yankees would ahve to have a handshake agreement with A-Rod that he'd accept the trade or, if it's A-Rod who wants to leave, he'd need a handshake agreement that the Yankees WILL trade him.

I assume Texas would be pretty pissed about this but is there anything stopping it from happening?

Is a sign and trade possible here?

I don't why the Yankees would help another squad.

Well played by the Yankees.

I'm not so sure.

Pretty much what they're telling him is, "We're interested in paying market value, plus luxury tax, minus $30 million, at most." And based on the fact that they were considering breaking their own rule about midseason negotiations, I think we all already figured that. I'm sure Boras figured it out already.

However, in making this public - or at least by making it explicit, with "sources" not necessarily with the team making it public - they're driving down his market value. They're actually hurting A-Rod, and helping the other 29 teams, by doing so. They're trying to coerce him to the bargaining table, to create leverage for themselves where they have none.

While I think it could be in the Yankees' interests to try to sign him now, I don't think threats will make Boras want to negotiate now, and I don't think it's in the Yankees' best interests to make it easier for Boston (as an example) to acquire him by removing themselves from consideration in December.

Of course, it's possible the "sources" are not with the Yankees. (Lucchino, perhaps?)

Pretty much what they're telling him is, "We're interested in paying market value, plus luxury tax, minus $30 million, at most."

If the Yankees are really saying "we'd rather lose the $30M entirely than share any of it with you," then, well, they're going to lose it (and A-Rod). But I can't really believe that's what they're saying.

I think they're just stating the obvious: they're going to be willing to pay A-Rod more for an extension (since they get $30M from Texas in that case) than they would pay him as a free agent (without that money), and thus if he rejects their extension offer there's really no sense in trying to negotiate with him as a free agent.

But as Sam said, I just can't see an outcome other than an extension that makes sense, given the Rangers' $30M contribution to the current contract - and that will only happen if the Yankees pay A-Rod at least market value, probably plus some share of that $30M.

they're going to be willing to pay A-Rod more for an extension (since they get $30M from Texas in that case) than they would pay him as a free agent (without that money),

Not just that: they're also telling him that the "window\" between the end of the World Series and the opt-out date is the time when his value is at his highest, because not only will the Yankees be willing to pay him more, but they'll pay him more during that time than anyone else will pay him as a free agent, either.

Boras knows this. The fact of the matter is there is just $30M more in the "pot" to pay the guy.

Great stuff on those two articles, John

Thanks. Of course the media did most of the grunt work. I just added a little commentary.

Best Regards

John

Boston can't sign A-Rod. How the hell are they supposed to market the guy?

Boston can't sign A-Rod. How the hell are they supposed to market the guy?

Continue to let him be the best player in the game. The same Boston fans that bought the hats in 2003-2005 will eat it up.

Is a sign and trade possible here?

I don't why the Yankees would help another squad.

Presumably the Yankees would be getting something also. That's how trades often work.

Presumably the Yankees would be getting something also. That's how trades often work.

What could they get that would replace the best player in the game?

A mortgage on the new stadium?

A-Rod is one of those players i can't stay rational about. I hate the asshat so much I coudln't stand having to CHEER for him. With Slappy McBluelips, Mine, Ugly Canadian Stripper, and "I'm going to play for Dominican NO I'm going to play for US!", I've had enough of Alex Rodriguez for a lifetime.

... having his wife wear a "F*** You" top to a game ... "I've always admired Lou Gehrig; I hardly know anything about him" ... choking so bad in the postseason his HOF manager is forced to bat him 8th ....

He's actually worth less to the Yankees than another team because the Yankees know what a post-season gakker he is when he has to play the postseason for them. The Yankees can get to the postseason using A-Rod's money elsewhere.

Me too. I'd say both Chicago teams, the Angels, the Giants, the Phillies and possibly the Orioles and Dodgers would all jump into the bidding. I wouldn't even rule out the Cardinals or Braves though they both seem very unlikely.

Don't rule out the Tigers.

The only way this really gets interesting, I think, is if the Yankees actually make it to the World Series.

It's better for ARod if he doesn't have to perform in the post-season, which is why he's probably hoping upon hope the Yankees don't.

Don't rule out the Tigers.

Good call. I knew there was one other team I was missing.

What could they get that would replace the best player in the game?

If you read my post I was saying that this would happen under the scenario where another team is willing to pay more for A-Rod or where A-Rod wants to go to another team. So, either they wouldn't want A-Rod at a certain price or they wouldn't have the option of having him at that price.

Don't rule out the Tigers.

Yup, although they've worked out pretty well, Boras' clients were given contracts that seemed flying rodent fecal-droppings mentally unstable at the time (Rogers, Pudge, Maggs) however they've all been solid contributors to the Tabbies. I can Boras saying to Dombitch: "When I have ever steered you wrong?" when trying to sell them on a seven year/$224M deal for A-Rod.

Best Regards

John

John, how are we 40 posts into a discussion of a David Samson interview and you haven't posted anything yet? (I tried to stand in, but I don't feel I quite got it.)

John, how are we 40 posts into a discussion of a David Samson interview and you haven't posted anything yet?

I didn't think I could top what Samson did all by himself.

Best Regards

John

I wonder if A-Rod doesn't come to the Nats. It is the 4th largest market in the country. The Nationals may be able to maximize their relative percentage of the DC-Baltimore market through buying a much better team than the O's. If A-Rod can still play SS he's gotta be intriguing to them.

The Nationals have been mostly laying low, but that could change in a hurry with the right oppportunity.

That's a good call. I'd make the Nats a darkhorse contender, too. DC's a "star" market.

Don't rule out the Tigers.
Good call. I knew there was one other team I was missing.

I called the Tigers a darkhorse last week in a different A-Rod thread, and I was pretty much told I was nuts.

Well played by the Yankees.

I'm not so sure.

I agree with vi here. I am not convinced this is a canny move by the Yankees.

The Nationals have been mostly laying low, but that could change in a hurry with the right oppportunity.

Especially considering they're opening a new ballpark. I would doubt A-Rod would go there, but I certainly think the Nats will go after a big name or two in the next couple years.

I called the Tigers a darkhorse last week in a different A-Rod thread, and I was pretty much told I was nuts.

I am super-duper sane, so you must be all right.

Now, don't get me wrong: I would LOVE to see Slappy come to D.C. and play for the Nationals, but there's simply no chance at all. There's a reason they never made a real play to keep Soriano. The team is still an absolute minimum of three years away from being any good, and Lerner and Kasten's plan is to stay cheap and not go crazy in the FA market while they go about the difficult task of rebuilding the organization from within and sort out who does and doesn't have a future of the current bunch. I expect them to not go hard after Andruw Jones either for this reason.

Lerner and Kasten's plan is to stay cheap and not go crazy in the FA market while they go about the difficult task of rebuilding the organization from within and sort out who does and doesn't have a future of the current bunch. I expect them to not go hard after Andruw Jones either for this reason.

Andruw keeps flailing away at the plate like he's been doing thus far and they could get him for cheap after all.

I am not convinced this is a canny move by the Yankees.

You could argue that the really canny move would be to say they will bid if A-Rod decides to opt out, but that their maximum bid will be $30M less than the highest figure they offered him as an extension. That way, A-Rod knows the Yankees really have a certain price they are willing to pay, and that they are passing through the Rangers' $30M entirely along to him. Then, the question becomes: does Boras think he can get more than that price (the Yankees' "base price + $30M) from someone else.

Which is why I think the Yankees' gambit IS smart. Because Boras can't be sure about the answer to that question during the time the Yankees have put on it: prior to the time A-Rod opts out. While he (Boras) is very, very good at assessing the market, he's not perfect. And this is a unique situation, because of that extra $30M that goes away if A-Rod opts out. He'd be gambling on his assessment of the market in a way he hasn't had to in the past, because real money comes off the table. This Yankee threat, IOW, is not just a bluff. It may be a bluff in part, but it's not entirely a bluff.

An extension gets done. A-Rod isn't worth $30M more to any other team than he is to the Yankees. That's the Yankees' leverage. But the Yankees can't replace A-Rod. That's Boras' leverage. Both Boras and Cashman know both of those key facts. An extension gets done.

Heh. I'm opting to give Jessica Alba an ultimatum. Jessica, put out or else.

Btw, if I were A-rod, I'd sign an extension with the Yankees just to piss off Hicks.

Also, if I were A-rod, I'd stop dating female bodybuilders.

An extension gets done. A-Rod isn't worth $30M more to any other team than he is to the Yankees. That's the Yankees' leverage. But the Yankees can't replace A-Rod. That's Boras' leverage. Both Boras and Cashman know both of those key facts. An extension gets done.

I don't buy the argument that the Yankees can't replace A-Rod. They'll have $30 million to spend; while they may have to spread it around a bit, they could get his production in other places.

Won't come to that though. I agree with you in that an extension is inevitable.

If I were Alex, I'd request to move back to SS before signing an extension.

I'd also sleep with Jessica Alba.

the Yankees can't replace A-Rod

They'll have $30 million to spend

When does Miguel Cabrera become a free agent?

So weird the Yankees would do this. But it's probably good for the game.

Stoneman got Vlad in an off year for free agents; maybe they get A-Rod the same way.

But I doubt it. This looks more like a high-stakes game of chicken.

The Yanks would be humiliated if he goes to Boston and Boras knows it. It all comes down to whether he is confident whatever they offer as an extension is better than what he'd get on the open market, and he'll probably draw out the process until 11:00-11:59 PM on the las day of the window after the world series ends

EST or PST? Remember, Boras's offices are in Newport Beach, CA.

If I were the Red Sox I'd stay out of the 2007 FA market, re-sign Mike Lowell to a one-year deal, MAYBE find another pitcher that's good (a Keith Foulke-like reliever for Keith Foulke money), and go dig up Kobayashi from Japan.

...go dig up Kobayashi from Japan.

And have him sing in a quartet in Skokie, Illinois.