First sign of a long off-season: BTF links to amateurish blogs.

Second sign: we read them and offer "critiques", even though we know better.

Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees Yankees

Regards,

Yankees Yankees Yankees

Is CC Sabathia really much less of an injury risk?

I think this says it all.

Third sign: commentary that implies that only the Yankees matter. Actually, that's true pretty much all the time.

Third sign: commentary that implies that only the Yankees matter. Actually, that's true pretty much all the time.

Yankees? YANKEES YANKEES YANKEES!!!!!!

Yankee Yank Yankee Yank Yank.

Wank Wank Wank Wank Wank Wank Wank Wank Brett Gardner Joba Joba Wank Wank Yank Yank Joba

Wank Wank Wank Wank Wank Wank Wank Wank Brett Gardner Joba Joba Wank Wank Yank Yank Joba

LOLYANKZ!

Not that it's a huge surprise, but I think the boredom has finally gotten to Shooty.

Is this anything like "foods it's possible I'll eat today?" Because really up until the moment where I'm eating (or at least cooking) the answer's basically "What's in the kitchen?"

Not that it's a huge surprise, but I think the boredom has finally gotten to Shooty.

Just taking a break from credit default swaps and the impending doom they may portend. I understand that the Yanks, Sawx and Mets are going to get the most threads here, but I don't see why we need to drill so deep for Yankee material. There's an article on CNNSI that the Hal has officially taken over the Yankees. Hal, not Hank. Hank has been Fredo-ed. That seems a much more fun topic than low level Yankee roster-bation.

That seems a much more fun topic than low level Yankee roster-bation.

I'm enjoying the Moose thread myself, so I don't see much value to this article here either. The only reason I came here and posted was to wonder if you were reduced to a Mr.-Burns-after-being-shot (Ho mer Simp. Son.) like state.

The only reason I came here and posted was to wonder if you were reduced to a Mr.-Burns-after-being-shot (Ho mer Simp. Son.) like state.

Reduced? :)

I'm enjoying the Moose thread myself, so I don't see much value to this article here either. The only reason I came here and posted was to wonder if you were reduced to a Mr.-Burns-after-being-shot (Ho mer Simp. Son.) like state.

I'm all for Moose threads. I'm still kicking. The excitement over Eric Chavez pronouncing himself imminently healthy has me tingling with excitement.

Reduced? :)

I have released the hounds, you slack-jawed laggard, and the killer bees and the hounds that shoot killer bees out of their mouths.

Hank has been Fredo-ed. That seems a much more fun topic than low level Yankee roster-bation.
As Shooty's mental state deteriorates with almost infinite acceleration, his ability to turn a phrase has reached an all-time high.
He might not be the phraseologist of the year, but he's my most valuable phraseologist.

As Shooty's mental state deteriorates with almost infinite acceleration, his ability to turn a phrase has reached an all-time high.
He might not be the phraseologist of the year, but he's my most valuable phraseologist.

Edmundo, I'd love to take credit for roster-bation, but I've stolen that word from the blogosphere. Still, I'm not too bad!

#4 I think this says it all.

The funny thing about that article is that two of the five players pictured actually have become Yankees since then.

Man, remind me again why were we surprised when the Marlins won in 2003?

They had a freaking great pitching staff.
Pretty much every starter, important bullpen guy or position player from that team is still around and really valuable now 5 years later.

It's too bad they're not all still Marlins. That would have been a really fun team.

Even though that Onion article has been linked on this site every time the Yankees have signed or been rumored to have interest in signing any free agent in the past 5 years...it never gets less funny.

Pretty much every starter, important bullpen guy or position player from that team is still around and really valuable now 5 years later.

Wow, really? What roster are you looking at? Their starting 2B (Luis Castillo), Catcher (I-Rod), LF and CF, (Juans Encarnacion and Pierre) are all part-time players, and lousy ones at that. Their starting RF and SS are both retired at ages 33 and 30, respectively. Lee and Lowell are still reasionably productive, in spite of Lowell's injury, but that's about it. Miguel Cabrera played only half the season that year, but you can have him, too, if you like.

And the starting staff? Only Beckett qualified for the ERA title this year, and he logged just 175 innings with a 4.03 ERA. Redman, Pavano and Dontrelle may be washed up. Penny's a question mark at best for next year, and the only guy from the bullpen worth anything these days is Braden Looper, and maybe Vladimir Nunez, but that's a stretch. Most of those guys were out of the majors within two years, and of the ones that were still around 5 years later, they were almost all struggling with some kind of injury.

Wow, really? What roster are you looking at? Their starting 2B (Luis Castillo), Catcher (I-Rod), LF and CF, (Juans Encarnacion and Pierre) are all part-time players, and lousy ones at that. Their starting RF and SS are both retired at ages 33 and 30, respectively. Lee and Lowell are still reasionably productive, in spite of Lowell's injury, but that's about it. Miguel Cabrera played only half the season that year, but you can have him, too, if you like.

And the starting staff? Only Beckett qualified for the ERA title this year, and he logged just 175 innings with a 4.03 ERA. Redman, Pavano and Dontrelle may be washed up. Penny's a question mark at best for next year, and the only guy from the bullpen worth anything these days is Braden Looper, and maybe Vladimir Nunez, but that's a stretch. Most of those guys were out of the majors within two years, and of the ones that were still around 5 years later, they were almost all struggling with some kind of injury.

You're like the grown-up on this thread.

I don't think Alex Gonzalez is retired. He missed all of last year, but he's still on the Reds.

Remember when all of those guys, plus Claudio Vargas, Blaine Neal, Wes Anderson and Geoff Goetz were supposed to become stars?

No, I don't remember when random guys whom you remember being in the minor leagues, were touted as top prospects likely to become stars. So, the answer to this question is no. Wes Anderson is a good art director, though.

So, like, do you just think there was evil voodoo placed on a certain era of the Marlins, or can you actually point to something tangible that they did, that would apply equally to every pitcher they owned, that ensured that none of them would ever be any good again? (I guess given your last post, maybe you think they did whatever it was to their hitters, too.) Something approaching a fact would help here.

Remember when Josh Beckett was "the best pitcher in baseball"?

I remember Claudio Vargas still, from when he was an Expo. He had a tendency to give up home runs in 04. I think the Expos got him for Carl Pavano. Or was it Carl Pavano and Justin Wayne for Vargas and Floyd? And Floyd brought in Sun-woo Kim and Seung Song and maybe Rich Rundles? Or did Rich Rundles come in a deal involving Ugueth Urbina?

I think I've entered stream-of-consciousness mode here. Makes great art, no?

I remember Claudio Vargas still, from when he was an Expo. He had a tendency to give up home runs in 04. I think the Expos got him for Carl Pavano. Or was it Carl Pavano and Justin Wayne for Vargas and Floyd? And Floyd brought in Sun-woo Kim and Seung Song and maybe Rich Rundles? Or did Rich Rundles come in a deal involving Ugueth Urbina?

I think I've entered stream-of-consciousness mode here. Makes great art, no?

One must suffer to make great art, and Expos fandom is/was the very essence of suffering.

Wilton Guerrero/Floyd/Vargas/$$$ for Pavano/Wayne/Graeme Lloyd/Mike Mordecai/PTBNL.

Kim/Song for Floyd.

Rundles/Ohka for Urbina.

I see the point this guy is making--well, insofar as he has a point--but isn't that list a compliment to the Marlins of the early 2000s? Even with all the various sufferings of Beckett, Burnett, et. al is there any organization that has come close to producing that much quality pitching in the same period?

Oakland, I suppose, with the Zito/Mulder/Hudson bunch. Anyone else?

Even with all the various sufferings of Beckett, Burnett, et. al is there any organization that has come close to producing that much quality pitching in the same period?

If you're going to ignore sufferings, then Wood/Prior/Zambrano should be included.

If you're going to ignore sufferings, then Wood/Prior/Zambrano should be included.

That's definitely a group worth inclusion.

I guess my larger point is that the implication up there is that all these problems the ex-Marlins have had is a poor reflection on the organization, whereas I would say that producing pitchers who have been as good at times as Beckett, Willis, Penny, and gang--even if not as consistantly as one hopes--is a compliment.

Welcome back to the states RB, must be relaxing to be in a flash-flood-less part of the world again.

Remember when all of those guys, plus Claudio Vargas, Blaine Neal, Wes Anderson and Geoff Goetz were supposed to become stars?

No, I don't remember when random guys whom you remember being in the minor leagues, were touted as top prospects likely to become stars. So, the answer to this question is no. Wes Anderson is a good art director, though.

In the article that sentence links to a SI article by Jeff Pearlman about the Marlins' supposed wealth of young pitching talent, some of which panned out, at least for a while, but most did not. That's true of virtually any (sufficiently large) group of pitchers, of course, but there was a lot of hype about the Marlins' young pitchers at the time.

I'm not sure there was any voodoo involved, but a lot of those guys threw a lot of pitches at a very young age, and it's possible that at least some of their injury/ineffectiveness owes to that fact.

And no, Tuque, I don't remember when Beckett was the best pitcher in baseball. I assume you mean that tongue-in-cheek, since you put the phrase in quotes, but Beckett was never better than perhaps the top 10, in 2007, and otherwise is usually not in the top 40 or so. Staying healthy seems to be the one skill he does not have, like a lot of his former Marlins teammates.

And no, Tuque, I don't remember when Beckett was the best pitcher in baseball. I assume you mean that tongue-in-cheek, since you put the phrase in quotes, but Beckett was never better than perhaps the top 10, in 2007, and otherwise is usually not in the top 40 or so. Staying healthy seems to be the one skill he does not have, like a lot of his former Marlins teammates.

If kevin were still around, this thread would be at about 200 posts by now.

a lot of those guys threw a lot of pitches at a very young age, and it's possible that at least some of their injury/ineffectiveness owes to that fact.

This is exceedingly vague. If you really want to back this up, you need to provide more specific information about how much each guy threw; whether the guys with the most dangerous workloads by whatever definition you're using were actually the ones who got hurt; and how you know that your theory about what constitutes a dangerous workload actually holds up.

After that, you'll have to explain how overworking the pitchers ruined Luis Castillo's knees and got Juan Encarnacion whacked in the face with a foul ball.

No, I don't need to do any of that. I'm just throwing out a possibility that one had some effect on the other. That, combined with Burnett's age, rising ERA and propensity for missing parts of the following two seasons every time he racks up 200+ innings are plenty to scare me off him, if I'm Brian Cashman.

As for the hitters, my initial contention had nothing to do with them. I just responded to someone else's contention that nearly everyone on that team was still productive 5 years later, which clearly is not true. I never said that was all the pitchers' fault.

Welcome back to the states RB, must be relaxing to be in a flash-flood-less part of the world again

Cheers. Yes it is, f***ing Outback, trying to drown me. What a bunch of ########. What I need now, however, is a part of the world that has neither flash floods nor weather this cold.

Perhaps week after next we can get together for some pre-Christmas drinks.

What I need now, however, is a part of the world that has neither flash floods nor weather this cold.

Yeah, it's a little too early for it to be this unpleasantly cold.

Perhaps week after next we can get together for some pre-Christmas drinks.

Sounds good to me.

No, I don't need to do any of that. I'm just throwing out a possibility that one had some effect on the other.

Oh, okay. Fine work. BTW, if you wrote the article, I think it's considered bad form to submit it.