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Wednesday, November 14, 2007

Yankees set to bring A-Rod back - on their terms

According to the first source, the Yankees are waiting for Mariano Rivera to sign a new contract before finalizing any plans with Rodriguez, who is expected to take a 10-year deal worth roughly $275 million. That would be about $75 million less than Boras has been looking for, though most industry insiders believe there was never going to be a $350 million offer out there for Rodriguez.

“Alex is going to be back with the Yankees,” the source said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the deal had not been made public. “The Yankees don’t have a choice. How are they going to compete without Alex? They need him back.”

 

 

This is similar to the other Arod article, just newer. If this is true it looks he might restore his image.

mlbfan303 Posted: November 14, 2007 at 04:12 PM | 387 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   201. still hunting for a halo-red october (in Delphi) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 09:44 PM (#2614965)
As an Angels fan I am dismayed to hear this news.

Mets, Dodgers, Giants and Red Sox fans, I feel your pain.
   202. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 14, 2007 at 09:47 PM (#2614972)
heeree'sssss Hank!!

“It appears at this point that he wants to be a Yankee.” Steinbrenner told Newsday in a cell phone conversation this afternoon.

Despite so vigorously stating they would not negotiate with A-Rod after he opted out, the Yankees are entertaining this surprising new development because Rodriguez is willing to take sacrifices.

“The reason we didn’t entertain it in the first place is because of the opt out and the loss of the Rangers money and so forth,” Steinbrenner said. “But at this point it appears he’s willing to make sacrifices to be a Yankee. Basically that’s it in a nutshell.”


Scott Boras is a genius. Pure genius.
with two little paragraphs released on some blog somewhere, he has the Yankee's back peddling, and got their cash back on the table ..

genius!
   203. galaxieboi Posted: November 14, 2007 at 09:47 PM (#2614975)
too bad there wasnt some period of time built-in right after the season in which to share those thoughts


Very nice...
   204. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 14, 2007 at 09:49 PM (#2614978)
genius!

Only if he comes out better than he would have been negotiating an extension in the first place.
   205. jonm Posted: November 14, 2007 at 09:49 PM (#2614979)
Scott Boras is a genius. Pure genius.


I think that his particular genius moment was manifested by getting John Sterling to join his plot.
   206. jyjjy Posted: November 14, 2007 at 09:50 PM (#2614981)
I think this works only if the true market value is LESS than what Boras snubbed. The Yankees initial offer was effectively 8/231, which is 28.9 M per. If they do 27.5M for 8 years, that's 220. So ARod and the Yanks are basically splitting the cost of the lost $21M. Which seems about fair.

This is true, but who said anything about 8/220?
   207. John Lynch Posted: November 14, 2007 at 09:53 PM (#2614984)
My take: I'm sure that the Yankees realize that this could be a ploy by Boras/A-Rod to get the Yankees to bid up his price. However, they also believe that the risk is worth it, given that this would be an opportunity to retain A-Rod's services without losing face now or credibility in future negotiations.

And how much of a risk is it really? If A-Rod just uses them to bid his price up, A-Rod will look like the villain, and the Yankees won't have lost anything: A-Rod still won't be on the team and the Yanks' credibility vis-a-vis not negotiating because of the lost Texas money will still be intact because all negotiations took place under the condition that A-Rod would be making "sacrifices." In an odd way, that scenario might actually help New York because it may cause a competing team to pay more for A-Rod than they otherwise would have.
   208. NJ is feeling better Posted: November 14, 2007 at 09:56 PM (#2614985)
Scott Boras is a genius. Pure genius.
with two little paragraphs released on some blog somewhere, he has the Yankee's back peddling, and got their cash back on the table ..

genius!


*Searching for the roll eyes emoticon*
   209. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:05 PM (#2614995)
This is true, but who said anything about 8/220?

I was going off $275M/10, and 10 years seemed too long.

$220M/8 seems just about right.
Maybe $230M so Boras can claim the biggest contract ever.
   210. Hugh Jorgan Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:06 PM (#2614997)
You have to believe Borass is behind this. He's a complete d*ck, but a clever d*ck at that. What does he care about his rep, the players love him, everyone thinks he's pond scum but that doesn't matter, this is spin of the highest order.

I can just see the initial meeting...Alex, "how can we restore your rep, get the 10 years, keep you at NY AND get around $280mil", says Borass.

Its brilliant, I hate that bastard Boras...but damn is he good.

And of course it just made Boston's Lowell negotiations a tad less complicated.
   211. jyjjy Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:14 PM (#2615006)
$220M/8 seems just about right.

It does, but that's not being discussed apparently. The extra 55 million for A-Rod when he is 40+ is huge.
   212. Tim D Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:19 PM (#2615013)
My comment:

Posted: October 28, 2007 at 10:11 PM (#2597770)

There is no way that the Yankees will sit on the sidelines while Boras shops ARod around. None.
   213. Hugh Jorgan Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:24 PM (#2615016)
My comment:

Posted: October 28, 2007 at 10:11 PM (#2597770)

There is no way that the Yankees will sit on the sidelines while Boras shops ARod around. None.


Nostradomus(sp?) of the 21st century! So soothsayer of our times, will the BoSox win again in 2008?
   214. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:25 PM (#2615019)
Unless everybody is being sarcastic, I just can't see anyway Boras did not screw up.

The Yankees initial offer was 5/150 extension or 8/231, provided you trust the papers. If Boras had negotiated, I can easily see a deal for two years longer and more than the 275 A-Rod is apparently going to get. And he could get that without the bad feelings and bad press A-Rod incurred from all the World Series announcement fiasco. Say what you want, the general impression is that A-Rod had to circumvent Boras to get the Yankee money. Where is the genius?
   215. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:26 PM (#2615020)
will the BoSox win again in 2008?


no.

Its the Chinese year of the friar next season.
   216. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:32 PM (#2615025)
The Yankees have softened their position. Boras may be present at the negotiations if he wears the Bobby Valentine Fake Mustache, Nose & Glasses™. Is that legal?
   217. Tim D Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:33 PM (#2615026)
I don't see how we can possibly speculate whether Boras goofed when all we have is speculation to begin with. Almost all of the numbers we are looking at are likely leaks that were put out to the media to serve a purpose. We don't know that ARod is going back to NY, we don't know how many years, how much, how it's structured, and what the perqs are. If Boras gets fired we'll know he blew it. If he doesn't then we are going to need to see some real numbers before we'll ever know. Whether he is "in the room" or not. Can you imagine what his phone bill looks like?

And the Red Sox are not going to win in 2008.
   218. CrosbyBird Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:44 PM (#2615033)
Say what you want, the general impression is that A-Rod had to circumvent Boras to get the Yankee money.

I don't particularly case what the general impression is. The only people that matter as far as Boras is concerned are his clients. I think "this guy is so good that the Yankees have to try and strong arm him to avoid being taken advantage of" is a big draw for potential clients.
   219. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:44 PM (#2615034)
Unless everybody is being sarcastic, I just can't see anyway Boras did not screw up.

The Yankees initial offer was 5/150 extension or 8/231, provided you trust the papers. If Boras had negotiated, I can easily see a deal for two years longer and more than the 275 A-Rod is apparently going to get.
You can "easily see" it? Boras "screwed up" because the number the Yankees are reportedly offering, although significantly higher than the number they were previously reportedly offering, is less than number you plucked out of your rear end and claim that he could have "easily" gotten?
And he could get that without the bad feelings and bad press A-Rod incurred from all the World Series announcement fiasco. Say what you want, the general impression is that A-Rod had to circumvent Boras to get the Yankee money. Where is the genius?
I don't see why anybody cares what the "general impression" is. Boras's job is to get the deal his client wants; if he does, I don't see why he gives a damn about the "general impression" of a bunch of people who have no role in the process at all. All that matters to Boras is his reputation among potential clients (players) and potential adversaries (team executives), not what the public or media thinks of the job he does. Boras gets nothing from being liked.
   220. Swedish Chef Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:46 PM (#2615037)
So what is Tom Hicks response to the latest developments?

A) "I'm one lucky dude."

B) "Hey, Scott, just sent your check to the Caymans as agreed. It's been a pleasure doing business with you."

C) "Wonder if Neifi Perez would be ours for 3/21?"
   221. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:47 PM (#2615039)
So ARod and the Yanks are basically splitting the cost of the lost $21M. Which seems about fair.

Rodriguez did not cost the Yankees $21M by opting out. He cost them $30M. You don't pay luxury tax on money that other teams pay your players.
   222. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:53 PM (#2615049)
CB and Nieporent,

You can argue that Boras doesn't care about public perception however you want. How does this episode raise his profile in the eyes of his clients? Follow Boras' strategy so you can have your friends contact the team you want to go to and negotiate without him? Follow Boras so you can get the same amount of money the team offers and much more hostility from fans?
   223. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2007 at 10:59 PM (#2615057)
I think this gets wrapped up fast. You wouldn't have multiple reports, statements from "Yankee sources" and A-Rod's statement on his website if they weren't very close to a deal. A-Rod probably doesn't want his free agent status to be the focus of Monday's MVP coronation.
   224. Brandon in MO (Yunitility Infielder) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:09 PM (#2615060)
A-Rod should hold out for $33.3M over 20 years.
   225. Srul Itza Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:17 PM (#2615065)
And the Red Sox are not going to win in 2008.

You mean they're going to go 0-162? That's a pretty ballsy prediction.
   226. Iwakuma Chameleon (jonathan) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:17 PM (#2615066)
Oh thank God. Anything to keep him far, far away from the Angels.
   227. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:18 PM (#2615067)
You can argue that Boras doesn't care about public perception however you want. How does this episode raise his profile in the eyes of his clients?
Let me count the 275 million ways.
   228. shoewizard Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:20 PM (#2615068)
so I guess ARod is going to play for own the Dominican Republic, huh?

Fixed
   229. Srul Itza Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:20 PM (#2615069)
I think this gets wrapped up fast.

I think Boras is on the phone while the negotiations are on-going, and once the Yankees have a number and they start discussing "other issues", he immediately shops the deal by phone to 5 or 6 other teams, high bidder taking all.

Then A-Rod gets a text message, tells the Yankees he cannot agree on the other issues, but he is glad he talked to them, walks out and signs a better deal before the week is out.
   230. JPWF13 Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:22 PM (#2615072)
Where is the genius?


Assuming he screwed up to begin with (which it appears likely that he did, but none of us really knows), his genius is apparent in the subsequent damage control,

I'd be amazed if politicians haven't asked for his advice after screwing the pooch
   231. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:26 PM (#2615074)
Rodriguez can still salvage this opt out situation somewhat but he has to act quickly. His claims of wanting to stay in New York will have more credibility if he acts quickly before time passes where he could field other offers or get bidding started. If he waits too long, it will be easy for critics to say that the money wasn’t out there, he was deep-sixed by his own avarice and has now come crawling back. This dingleberry excluded of course.

If he gives a discount to compensate for the lost Texas subsidy while still receiving a generous contract, A-Rod can say that he didn’t fully understand Boras’s strategy but trusted his agent. When he saw things comes apart, he felt he had to take the initiative to set things right so he can do what he has stated the last couple of years--finish his career in the Bronx.

Personally, if this is true and from Rodriguez himself, my hats off to A-Rod and I may just may return to my rabid fandom. Marvin Miller, Curt Flood and others didn't sacrifice so much just so players could switch masters; from the owners to the agents and the salary bar. They fought for a player's right to choose where he wanted his career to go.

If A-Rod is standing up and saying 'Dammit, this is what I want and I'm going to make it happen' then I salute the man. That's what the MLBPA was supposed to be about--a player being the master of his destiny.

Best Regards

John
   232. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:28 PM (#2615076)
The Yankees are now planning to negotiate with ARod? After they said they wouldn't? For much more money than they originally offered?

Shocked, I am! Shocked!

Who could possibly have predicted that the Yankees would take a ridiculously tough initial stance, and then go back on their word?
   233. dingo powered war machine (CoB) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:29 PM (#2615078)
the boras-inator cannot be contained!

Michael Weiner, general counsel for the Players Association, told Newsday's Ken Davidoff, “the union has been assured that the Yankees will respect Alex’s decision to designate Scott Boras as his representative.”
   234. Srul Itza Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:30 PM (#2615079)
That's what the MLBPA was supposed to be about--a player being the master of his destiny.

Wasn't it the MLBPA who scuttled his deal with Boston on the grounds that he was giving too much back?
   235. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:30 PM (#2615081)
You can argue that Boras doesn't care about public perception however you want. How does this episode raise his profile in the eyes of his clients?

Let me count the 275 million ways.


Arguing against Boras fanboys is like arguing with the ignorant subset of Yankees fans. So A-Rod is going to get his 275 million. Maybe he gets that without Boras because he is a very very good player? Isn't he actually getting that without Boras' legendary negotiating skills? It's like saying "count da ringz" in response to "Jeter is not a good defender."

Boras is a historically great agent in the same way Jeter is a great shortstop. But the press they get made them out to be superhuman or magical or what have you. They are human and they make mistakes. Boras makes good deals, he's also capable of misreading the market or strategic pratfalls. I don't see why it's difficult to see that.
   236. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:33 PM (#2615082)
That's what the MLBPA was supposed to be about--a player being the master of his destiny.
No, that's not what the MLBPA is, or is supposed to be about. It's about getting the best deal for all the players. The MLBPA is not for players to undercut their brethren, even if it's what the player wants. They can go for what they want, but only when it's not going to hurt other union members. That's the whole point of working together in a union - you sacrifice a bit in order to get hte best for everyone.
   237. Tschingsch Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:33 PM (#2615083)
(In a room away from the negotiating table)

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Guards! Make sure the Boras doesn't leave this room until I come and get him.

GUARD #1:
Not to leave the room even if you come and get him.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
No, no. Until I come and get him.

GUARD #1:
Until you come and get him, we're not to enter the room.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
No, no. No. You stay in the room and make sure he doesn't leave.

GUARD #1:
And you'll come and get him.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Right.

GUARD #1:
We don't need to do anything apart from just stop him entering the room.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
No, no. Leaving the room.

GUARD #1:
Leaving the room. Yes.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
All right?

GUARD #1:
Right.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Right.

GUARD #1:
Oh, if-- if-- if, uhh-- if-- if-- w-- ehh-- i-- if-- if we--

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Yes? What is it?

GUARD #1:
Oh, i-- if-- i-- oh--

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Look, it's quite simple.

GUARD #1:
Uh...

HANK STEINBRENNER:
You just stay here and make sure 'e doesn't leave the room. All right?

GUARD #2:
Hic!

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Right.

GUARD #1:
Oh, I remember. Uhh, can he leave the room with us?

HANK STEINBRENNER:
N-- no, no. No. You just keep him in here and make sure he--

GUARD #1:
Oh, yes. We'll keep him in here, obviously, but if he had to leave and we were with him--

HANK STEINBRENNER:
No, no, no, no. Just keep him in here--

GUARD #1:
Until you or anyone else--

HANK STEINBRENNER:
No, not anyone else. Just me.

GUARD #1:
Just you.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Get back.

GUARD #1:
Get back.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
All right?

GUARD #1:
Right. We'll stay here until you get back.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
And, uh, make sure he doesn't leave.

GUARD #1:
What?

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Make sure 'e doesn't leave.

GUARD #1:
Boras?

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Yes. Make sure 'e doesn't leave.

GUARD #1:
Oh, yes, of course.

GUARD #1:
Ah. I thought you meant him (the other guard). You know, it seemed a bit daft me havin' to guard him when he's a guard.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Is that clear?

GUARD #1:
Oh, quite clear. No problems.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
Right. Where are you going?

GUARD #1:
We're coming with you.

HANK STEINBRENNER:
No, no. I want you to stay here and make sure 'e doesn't leave.

GUARD #1:
Oh, I see. Right.
   238. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:35 PM (#2615084)
Assuming he screwed up to begin with (which it appears likely that he did, but none of us really knows), his genius is apparent in the subsequent damage control,

I'd be amazed if politicians haven't asked for his advice after screwing the pooch


If that is the case then it's equally plausible that it's more genius on A-Rod's part for making Boras the fall guy than anything Boras does. The public perception certainly is A-Rod tossing Boras overboard.

Screwing up and tossing under the bus people who work for you is SOP for politicians. See Elliot Spitzer and his aides for a very recent example.
   239. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:35 PM (#2615085)
Who could possibly have predicted that the Yankees would take a ridiculously tough initial stance, and then go back on their word?

I think we have to see the deal before we can say the Yanks materially changed their position. If A-Rod is now saying I'll take your original offer minus the now gone Texas money, the Yanks haven't changed their position, A-Rod has changed his. It's not totally clear, but A-Rod's statement on his website seems to suggest that he is doing something to meet the Yankees' concerns about the Texas money.
   240. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:39 PM (#2615091)
Arguing against Boras fanboys is like arguing with the ignorant subset of Yankees fans. So A-Rod is going to get his 275 million. Maybe he gets that without Boras because he is a very very good player? Isn't he actually getting that without Boras' legendary negotiating skills? It's like saying "count da ringz" in response to "Jeter is not a good defender."
It's actually nothing like that.

When someone says, "Jeter is not a good defender", I can point to innumerable pieces of evidence, from Zone Rating to BIS +/- to the Fan's Scouting Report, to my observations, that demonstrate, or at least strongly suggest that Jeter is a poor defensive player.

When someone says "Boras is a great agent", exactly what evidence do you point to in order to disprove the claim? The analogy fails because there's nothing there to point to.

Given that, I take the big picture evidence - the high quality contracts that Boras secures and his popularity among his players and the loyalty of his clients - as clearly showing his strength as an agent.

Also, there were a ton of posts here at BTF about how 8/230 was going to be the best offer ARod would get, and that Boras was an idiot for not taking it. Now we see that those geniuses were much worse at reading the market than Boras, but still, you claim with no evidence that he hasn't done well.
   241. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:40 PM (#2615093)
I think we have to see the deal before we can say the Yanks materially changed their position. If A-Rod is now saying I'll take your original offer minus the now gone Texas money, the Yanks haven't changed their position, A-Rod has changed his.
The report is 10/275, is it not? That's much more than the initial offer.

EDIT: See Sam's post #247. He makes the better point - Stein Spawn A said "Good-bye." This is not good-bye.
   242. Swedish Chef Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:40 PM (#2615094)
That's the whole point of working together in a union - you sacrifice a bit in order to get hte best for everyone.


You sacrifice by taking a huge salary most other union members can't even dream of? Sounds like a seriously crooked longshoremen chapter :-)
   243. JPWF13 Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:42 PM (#2615096)
Boras makes good deals, he's also capable of misreading the market or strategic pratfalls. I don't see why it's difficult to see that.


It'd be more accurate to say that Boras makes GREAT deals that no other agent does (at least not until Boras shows the way), he's also capable of misreading the market or strategic pratfalls. I don't see why it's difficult to see that.
   244. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:42 PM (#2615098)
You sacrifice by taking a huge salary most other union members can't even dream of?
I'm not really sure what your point is, but in this case, you sacrifice by making sure that owners cannot blackmail players to dump their agents. It might be in ARod's interest to negotiate with the Yankees without Boras present, but it is not in the interest of the union for owners to be able to blackmail players to negotiate without agents. So the sacrifice is typical of union membership, and the sort of thing that makes unions work.
   245. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:45 PM (#2615102)
When someone says "Boras is a great agent", exactly what evidence do you point to in order to disprove the claim?

His record in arbitration.
   246. Sam M. Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:45 PM (#2615103)
I think we have to see the deal before we can say the Yanks materially changed their position. If A-Rod is now saying I'll take your original offer minus the now gone Texas money, the Yanks haven't changed their position, A-Rod has changed his.

That is, I'm sorry to say, false. That would not represent a change from the position the Yankees should have taken. But it is a manifest change from the position they DID take, which is that if A-Rod opted out, they would not participate in any negotiations with him, period, and he would not return to the Yankees, period.

The only reasonable way to look at this, it seems to me, is that if A-Rod returns to the Yankees, they caved on that core position. Period. Now, whether A-Rod also gave in substantially (or at all) will depend on the terms of the deal. But the Yankees could not have been clearer in the days after A-Rod opted out, and saying that their position then included the option of him returning is revisionist history.
   247. Swedish Chef Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:48 PM (#2615105)
So the sacrifice is typical of union membership, and the sort of thing that makes unions work.


Schilling is the archetypical union rep and he trashed out a clearly non-optimal deal, so I don't really think this is perceived as a problem by the union.
   248. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:50 PM (#2615108)
Schilling is the archetypical union rep and he trashed out a clearly non-optimal deal, so I don't really think this is perceived as a problem by the union.
I didn't say anything about "non-optimal" deals. I'm not sure who you're arguing with.

I was talking about the very specific situation that John referred to, in which ARod would ditch Boras due to the Yankees' demands / blackmail. I was saying that this is the sort of sacrifice that the union ought to step in to prevent, because other players should not be subject to this sort of blackmail.
   249. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:52 PM (#2615111)
I'm not really sure what your point is, but in this case, you sacrifice by making sure that owners cannot blackmail players to dump their agents. It might be in ARod's interest to negotiate with the Yankees without Boras present, but it is not in the interest of the union for owners to be able to blackmail players to negotiate without agents.
I wasn't in this thread when there were all the jokes about whether the Yankees could refuse to negotiate with Boras, but since you bring the issue up again, as with collusion there's a historical reason why this very specific provision is in the CBA: because, pre-union, owners would simply refuse to talk to agents. The player didn't have much leverage in negotiations, since all he could do was hold out, but owners would even begrudge them having expert advice in those negotiations.
   250. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:53 PM (#2615113)
No, that's not what the MLBPA is, or is supposed to be about. It's about getting the best deal for all the players. The MLBPA is not for players to undercut their brethren, even if it's what the player wants. They can go for what they want, but only when it's not going to hurt other union members. That's the whole point of working together in a union - you sacrifice a bit in order to get hte best for everyone


Well said MCoA, but I'm pretty sure Srul's tongue was firmly in his cheek when he wrote that.

Having said that, I could see the union's point for nixing the A-Rod to Boston deal for the greater good. It would've set a bad precedent possibly getting other players to renegotiate for a lower amount--especially after an off year.

Best Regards

John
   251. Chip Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:54 PM (#2615114)
Primey for 238.
   252. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:54 PM (#2615116)
The public perception certainly is A-Rod tossing Boras overboard.


No that is the Yankee fanboy perception.
Yankee fanboy woke up this morning with all the major news networks in their area claiming A Rod tossed Boras under the bus, crawled back to the Yankees, and is in the process of writing his apology to the Yankee fans worldwide.

everybody else realizes this is a tactic.

what sounds more logical to you?
   253. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 14, 2007 at 11:55 PM (#2615117)
Well said MCoA, but I'm pretty sure Srul's tongue was firmly in his cheek when he wrote that.
Maybe I'm missing a joke somewhere in here, but you were the one who said that the union was about ARod being the master of his destiny, and I disagreed with you. Maybe I'm just confused. Apparently now we agree? Cool.
   254. Swedish Chef Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:01 AM (#2615122)
I can't see how anyone can take issue with the statement that a player should be the master of his destiny. If Boras isn't getting it done for A-Rod, he can represent himself if he wants to.

Can't see how that could be a problem for the union.
   255. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:02 AM (#2615123)
Maybe I'm missing a joke somewhere in here, but you were the one who said that the union was about ARod being the master of his destiny, and I disagreed with you. Maybe I'm just confused. Apparently now we agree? Cool.


About players in general being masters of their destiny. It was nice to see A-Rod do just that.

At any rate MCoA (been up waay toooo long) we're in agreement regardless of what I may have written. I think I knew what I thought I supposed I was thinking when I surmised that point of view of my opinion. Of course that's subject to revision if the opinion I surmised when I was thinking regarding what I supposed I thought turns out not be be what I actually thought I was writing about then.

I can't be any clearer than that.

Best Regards

John
   256. Swedish Chef Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:05 AM (#2615125)
If I were a yankee fan right now, I'd be running the hot water in the bathtub and rummaging in the kitchenfor the sharpest carving knife.

Is there anything that could possibly happen to the Yankees that wouldn't fill you with glee over their misfortune?
   257. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:07 AM (#2615127)
Man, did Boras take this guy's milk money. A-rod is getting a better salary, extended out over a longer period, and they lose the Ranger's money to boot. If I were a yankee fan right now, I'd be running the hot water in the bathtub and rummaging in the kitchenfor the sharpest carving knife. The new Tweedledee/Tweedledum Steinbrenner spawn front office are going to be ####### things up for decades to come.
As long as the Yankees do re-sign ARod, it will be relatively clear to me that the inmates aren't running the asylum. It was during the period of time when it looked like hte Yankees might actually stick to their guns on the "good-bye" thing that I was really hopeful about impending disaster.
   258. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:08 AM (#2615128)
When someone says "Boras is a great agent", exactly what evidence do you point to in order to disprove the claim?

His record in arbitration.
Okay, do that. What's his record in arbitration? How do his players do, compared to those represented by other agents? (% raise is really what you want to look at; W-L isn't the best metric, because if an agent can bluff the team into making an overly-high submission, a "loss" can still be a win.)

Boras is a historically great agent in the same way Jeter is a great shortstop. But the press they get made them out to be superhuman or magical or what have you. They are human and they make mistakes. Boras makes good deals, he's also capable of misreading the market or strategic pratfalls. I don't see why it's difficult to see that.
It's not difficult to see it. You just haven't presented any evidence that it happened <u>in this particular case</u>. At a minimum, we know that one party in the negotiations issued a public ultimatum -- if ARod opts out, the Yankees will not negotiate with him at all -- and then backed down.

And the best evidence (which, admittedly, is not at all certain) is that this same party that backed down then made an offer significantly higher than it did before.
   259. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:12 AM (#2615131)
I think that pronouncements like Sam's and MCoA's are just a tad bit premature. This is not a done deal, and there's no evidence as of this moment that any negotiating has actually taken place. It may seem laughable to some, but if the end result of all of this is that Rodriguez just throws himself back at the Yankees and takes a contract that is less than what they'd have given him in an extension, then you won't really be able to say they reneged on their stance. This may also seem laughable, but if Rodriguez' motive here is to get them to negotiate, and the response is "Sorry, take what we were offering before minus the Texas money or hit the road" and he does, in fact, hit the road, then it also will not be accurate to say that the Yankees reneged on their stance. Finally, if the Yankees do, in fact, negotiate, there will be all the time in the world to skewer them for it once it is clear that there were actual negotiations between the parties.
   260. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:12 AM (#2615132)
As a Yankee fan, I'd be really upset if this comes to pass. No way is A-Rod going to worth this amount of money.
...and...
If I were a yankee fan right now, I'd be running the hot water in the bathtub and rummaging in the kitchen for the sharpest carving knife.
Yes; clearly signing the best player in baseball is cause for suicide.

Assuming arguendo that A-Rod is being overpaid, why in hell would a Yankee fan care about that? I think it safe to assume the Yankees aren't going to have to file Chapter 11 as a result. Are fans rooting for the scoreboard or the balance sheet?
   261. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:13 AM (#2615135)
Michael Weiner, general counsel for the Players Association, told Newsday's Ken Davidoff, “the union has been assured that the Yankees will respect Alex’s decision to designate Scott Boras as his representative.”

So basically Boras has been reduced to a ceremonial role. I'll only believe that A-Rod's change of heart is due to Boras' carefully manipulated moves if he ends up with more money than the reported amount that the Yank were set to offer before he opted out. Otherwise, this has been a total disaster for Boras. Sure one of his clients just negotiated the largest contract in baseball (sports?) history, but it was done with him sitting on the sidelines and he could have negotiated for more money if he didn't have A-Rod opt out (assuming of course that the Yanks' reported pre-opt out offer is to be believed). And he's torched, but not necessarily burned, a bridge with one of the wealthiest teams in baseball.
   262. JPWF13 Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:16 AM (#2615138)
Okay, do that. What's his record in arbitration? How do his players do, compared to those represented by other agents? (% raise is really what you want to look at; W-L isn't the best metric, because if an agent can bluff the team into making an overly-high submission, a "loss" can still be a win.)


Well you do have a point, but "% raise" is misleading as well- you have to look at how good his players in arbitration are, their experience, etc.
BTW per the New Yorker his recent track record in Arbitration is awful- a combination of two factors
1: He overreaches
2: Collusion of a sort- the league has allegedly kept track of his arbitration arguments and submissions and shares it with the teams- Boras has apparently made too many contradictory claims to maintain any kind of credibility in front of the arbitrators-
   263. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:17 AM (#2615140)
No that is the Yankee fanboy perception.

You don't think that matters to the Steinboys? A lot? Most Yankee fans who actually live in the NY metro area read the News and the Post every day, and believe what they read.

Are fans rooting for the scoreboard or the balance sheet?

Neither. The laundry.
   264. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:18 AM (#2615141)
IE-

Well, we have a "high-ranking Yankee source" talking about a 10/275 extension. Obviously things could be incorrect, but there is a leak from the Yankees organization that they are negotiating. That's good enough for me.
   265. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:19 AM (#2615144)
Ha, Nieporent. Let's see how that 27.5 mil per looks when A-rod is a 38 yr. old DH.

As a Yankee fan, I really don't care how much they spend on Alex Rodriguez so long as it doesn't hamper them from acquiring other good players. To this point, I don't really see any evidence that they will be so hampered. I like watching him play baseball. If he can squeeze a lot of money out of the Steinbrenners without crippling their ability to pay other players, I say, "Good for him. He deserves it."
   266. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:21 AM (#2615146)
if he ends up with more money than the reported amount that the Yank were set to offer before he opted out

Which reported amount? The 5/150 extension they were reportedly going to offer on top of the 3/72 he still had coming? Or that, plus the extra $10M he could have had under the 2008 and 2009 opt-outs in the last contract? Or that, minus the Texas money? Or the 10/294 total they were reportedly ready to go to if he'd negotiated during the ten day window?
   267. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:21 AM (#2615147)
And the best evidence (which, admittedly, is not at all certain) is that this same party that backed down then made an offer significantly higher than it did before.

Sorry but I haven't read all the posts on this subject. Where was it reported that A-Rod has more money on the table now than what the Yanks offered before he opted out?
   268. The District Attorney Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:25 AM (#2615152)
I wasn't in this thread when there were all the jokes about whether the Yankees could refuse to negotiate with Boras
Wait, they can? That doesn't sound legal.
   269. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:26 AM (#2615153)
This is thinking from the "there is no limit to the Yankees wealth" school.

No, it's thinking from the "I don't know what their salary limits are because they don't seem to have reached them" school. I'm sure there is a limit, but hell if I know what it is. Besides, they will be clearing quite a lot of salary being paid out to non- and under-contributors like Pavano, Mussina, and Giambi rather soon.

I don't root for the team to be financially efficient. I root for them to win baseball games. Alex Rodriguez will likely be a very good baseball player for quite awhile yet.
   270. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:28 AM (#2615155)
we have a "high-ranking Yankee source" talking about a 10/275 extension

My position on reading articles that cite un-named sources is apparently different than yours. I think that you have to parse everything in these kinds of stories in the way that minimizes what is actually attributable to the source and maximizes what is speculation on the writers' part. So I don't think there's a source for that number other than Mark Feinsand's butt. Obviously, you disagree, and that's fine. I don't want to argue the point, just clarify where I'm coming from.
   271. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:29 AM (#2615159)
So basically Boras has been reduced to a ceremonial role. I'll only believe that A-Rod's change of heart is due to Boras' carefully manipulated moves if he ends up with more money than the reported amount that the Yank were set to offer before he opted out.
Look, none of us have the foggiest idea what ARod will end up with, but the article that started this very thread says:

expected to take a 10-year deal worth roughly $275 million

That's the only information we have, and it's already "more money than the reported amount that the Yanks were set to offer before he opted out." So what possible basis is there, based upon the information we have, for sneering at Boras?

---

Ha, Nieporent. Let's see how that 27.5 mil per looks when A-rod is a 38 yr. old DH.
Better than J.D. Drew at $14 million.

But unless there's a salary cap, why should anybody care? It'll be a sunk cost, and won't have any effect on their ability to sign anybody else.
   272. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:29 AM (#2615160)
Which reported amount? The 5/150 extension they were reportedly going to offer on top of the 3/72 he still had coming? Or that, plus the extra $10M he could have had under the 2008 and 2009 opt-outs in the last contract? Or that, minus the Texas money? Or the 10/294 total they were reportedly ready to go to if he'd negotiated during the ten day window?

Well yeah, ascertaining the exact dollar amount of what the Yanks offered is a fruitless task because they're political figures which is why I didn't even bother putting out a figure in my post. We'll see if A-Rod "firing" Boras is just a tactical ploy employed by Boras to reengage the Yanks in the bidding. I'm skeptical but it's just a hunch.
   273. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:33 AM (#2615164)
This is thinking from the "there is no limit to the Yankees wealth" school.

I just think that Yankee haters should subscribe to one school or the other, not both. If one hates the Yankees because of their unlimited wealth, then one can't be expected to be taken seriously when criticizing the Yankees for their bad contracts. There's no such thing as a bad contract for the Yankees. Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

If, OTOH, one thinks that this or any other contract or combination of contracts will hamstring the Yankees at some point in the future, then one has to stop pissing and moaning about how unfair it is that the Yankees can absorb any number of bad contracts without missing a beat. Pick a side, dammit. Even kevin can do that much.
   274. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:34 AM (#2615166)
If this had been true the last 12 months, then Matsusaka would not be wearing a baseball hat with a big red and blue "B" on it.

I don't think a secret bid auction is a good comparison to a free agent contract negotiation. Presumably, the Yankees submitted a bid for Matsuzaka which they thought would be high enough. Lamentably, they were mistaken. That's a miscalculation, not stinginess. Recent Yankees missteps (Pavano, Wright, Womack) have been miscalculations, not cheap-skate moves.
   275. Srul Itza Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:35 AM (#2615168)
I'm pretty sure Srul's tongue was firmly in his cheek when he wrote that.


Well, someone's cheek, anyway.
   276. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:38 AM (#2615172)
If this had been true the last 12 months, then Matsusaka would not be wearing a baseball hat with a big red and blue "B" on it.
No, the fact that the Yankees didn't screw up as badly as the Red Sox (*) and guess they'd need to throw away as much money on one particular mediocrity as Theo Epstein did is hardly evidence that they have a salary limit, any more than the fact that they haven't decided to give Miguel Cairo $15M/year does.


(*) I mean, someone whose team paid one hundred million dollars for a mediocre pitcher probably shouldn't throw stones at a team which would be re-signing the league MVP.
   277. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:39 AM (#2615174)
That's the only information we have, and it's already "more money than the reported amount that the Yanks were set to offer before he opted out." So what possible basis is there, based upon the information we have, for sneering at Boras?

Oops, sorry about that David, I thought I read somewhere that A-Rod was offering himself for a discounted price that accounts for the money that the Yanks lost from Texas when he opted out. If he's about to sign a 10 year, $275 contract, and if that's more than what Yanks were about to offer pre-opt out (whatever that exact figure is, this appears to be the case), then yes, Boras has done quite well.
   278. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:42 AM (#2615180)
Two teams outbid them. They tried to get him on the cheap, then wasted all the money they intended to spend on Matsusaka on Igawa and Clemens instead.

So they miscalculated badly. And that team could well have missed the playoffs without Clemens. He wasn't anything special, but he was fairly decent and certainly quite a bit better than the Karstenses and DeSalvos of the world. Igawa didn't work out very well, I will aver.
   279. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:51 AM (#2615185)
Or, more likely, they didn't have the money to sign both Clemens and Matsusaka, so they kept their powder dry for Clemens and took a chance the bid they put in for Matsusaka would get thm over the top.

Sounds possible. Could well have been their calculation. Don't have any actual reason to say it's more likely than a pure whiff on how the bidding was going to go.
   280. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:52 AM (#2615187)
From the NY Times,

Last month – in the offer Boras and Rodriguez would not let the Yankees make – the team was prepared to add five years and about $150 million to the three years and $91 million on Rodriguez’s existing deal. Through negotiation, the Yankees probably would have stretched the extension to seven years, through 2017.

In that scenario, though, the Rangers would have paid $30 million of the $91 million Rodriguez was owed from 2008 through 2010. Since the Yankees want that money back from Rodriguez, they would try to re-sign him now for 10 years and about $270 million.


So basically A-Rod had 8 year, $241 on the table, he's now getting 10 years, $270. So A-Rod is "sacrificing" less money per year to make up for the $30 million he cost the Yanks?
   281. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: November 15, 2007 at 12:56 AM (#2615192)
So basically A-Rod had 8 year, $241 on the table, he's now getting 10 years, $270. So A-Rod is "sacrificing" less money per year to make up for the $30 million he cost the Yanks?

Check your arithmetic, Bird. A seven year extension at $30M per on top of the three years he had left -- that's $252-301M, depending on how you value the balance of the prior contract.
   282. Mork Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:09 AM (#2615198)
Hey, Kevin, do you think that if you manage to make Yankees fans feel that the sky is falling ont their team, it will increase the Red Sox' chance of winning next year?
   283. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:13 AM (#2615201)
Well, then you have even less of a reason to think the Yankees revenues are inexhaustible.

Who said they were inexhaustible? To this point, I don't perceive that they have been exhausted, but I'm sure they would be at some point if they kept increasing payroll.
   284. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:14 AM (#2615203)
Check your arithmetic, Bird. A seven year extension at $30M per on top of the three years he had left

I'm just reporting what the NY Times said. They're quoting 5 years (not seven), $150, plus the 3 years, $91 on A-Rod's existing deal before he opted out. ESPN is reporting that A-Rod is taking $20 million less that what on the table before he opted out. Of course, we should probably wait until A-Rod actually signs a contract before assessing what was won or lost through A-Rod's strategy.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3109894

"Even if Rodriguez re-signs with the Yankees while retaining Boras as his agent, a negotiation that does not include the high-profile agent will be viewed within the industry as the first enormous defeat for the agent, because of how the talks have played out; because of the possible damage to Rodriguez's image in recent weeks; and because Rodriguez will be asked by the Yankees to take some $20 million less than they were willing to pay before the slugger opted out of his previous deal."
   285. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:20 AM (#2615209)
Well, this is what puzzles me. Why don't you think it's close to being exhausted?

Maybe they're close. It's possible. I don't know, but I just don't see any moves that were clearly motivated by a need to cut or avoid taking on salary.

Perhaps that's why they bid too low for Matsuzaka. That's certainly possible. But I don't know that it's any more probable than that they figured their bid for Matsuzaka would be good enough and were simply mistaken.
   286. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:23 AM (#2615213)
No, the fact that the Yankees didn't screw up as badly as the Red Sox (*) and guess they'd need to throw away as much money on one particular mediocrity as Theo Epstein did is hardly evidence that they have a salary limit, any more than the fact that they haven't decided to give Miguel Cairo $15M/year does.


(*) I mean, someone whose team paid one hundred million dollars for a mediocre pitcher probably shouldn't throw stones at a team which would be re-signing the league MVP.


I think it's a bit premature to be calling Matsuzaka a mediocrity.
   287. jonm Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:24 AM (#2615215)
The passage below quoted from a column that Madden wrote on Sunday strikes me as relevant. Either its true or the Yankees were talking to A-Rod already and they wanted to make the final deal look better:

And make no mistake, $300 million is now the minimum Boras can accept for A-Rod in order to justify his client opting out of his Yankee contract. That's because the offer the Yankees were prevented by Boras from making to A-Rod would have totaled almost $300 million:

On top of the $91 million owed to A-Rod in the final years of his existing contract (salaries, through elevator kick-ins, of $32, $32 and $27 million), the Yankees were prepared to initially offer a five-year extension at $29 million a year for a total of $236 million. Knowing that Boras was going to demand the contract extend for 10 years, they were then prepared to go an extra two years for $58 million more, especially because, with the DH, they could afford Rodriguez a place in the lineup to chase the home run record.

The Yankees were originally hoping to hold the annual average value of the deal to $28 million, but as it was revealed last week, under the terms of A-Rod's contract he was entitled to $9 million of the $30 million subsidy the Texas Rangers were giving the Yankees - money the Rangers are still on the hook for. Thus, the total package A-Rod never was allowed to be offered - but nonetheless walked away from - came to $294 million.
   288. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:28 AM (#2615217)
The passage below quoted from a column that Madden wrote on Sunday strikes me as relevant.

It's a nice thought, but you know someone is going to say that it was a plant, and the Yanks did this so that they could save face while paying A-rod $280 Million or something like that. Whatever, as long as he signs, I don't care who got the better of who.
   289. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:30 AM (#2615218)
Whatever, as long as he signs, I don't care who got the better of who.

Concur. When my team ends up with the best free agent available, that's a good thing.

Edit: Assuming my team does end up with said player, of course. Unhatched chickens and all that.
   290. jonm Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:34 AM (#2615224)
Whatever, as long as he signs, I don't care who got the better of who.


I agree. What I like about that passage though is that Madden accounts for the elevator kick-ins. So many commentators here have ignored those.
   291. cseadog Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:34 AM (#2615226)
Interesting stuff. We'll never know for sure, but it looks like A-rod paid $20M to look behind the free market curtain-- and didn't like what he saw. We know that the Yankees were willing make an OPENING offer of 5 years @$30M per for an extension. I think it's a pretty safe bet they were planning on paying more than that. A package with the Texas money getting to $300M in A-rod's pocket looks about right. Add 7 years to the package at $30 million per, you get to 301 (91 on the Texas contract plus 210 on the extension). Of that $301M, the Rangers pay (at least) $21M. In sum: Yankees pay $279;A-rod gets $300.

Is any other team likely to beat that?

That's why I thought he wouldn't opt out, if he wanted to remain a Yankee. But he did opt out. I concluded he just didn't want to be a Yankee. Now it appears he was willing to remain a Yankee,but he was willing to put the 20M in play to either test the market or the Yankees resolve.

Perhaps A-rod thought the Yankees would blink; perhaps he thought the market would be different. We don't know. We do know that A-rod blinked. It's far from over, (and I don't underestimate Boras's abilities in the end game) but right now it looks like he's going to sign for something pretty close to what the Yankees were prepared to pay before the opt out. Upshot: A-Rod loses the $21M and needs to do some serious damage control to repair his image.
   292. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:39 AM (#2615229)
We do know that A-rod blinked.
No, the only thing we know is that the Yankees blinked. ARod said that he was surprised that the Yankees were refusing to negotiate with him - he wanted to negotiate with the Yankees as a free agent.

What's been reported is that the Yankees, who took the clear stand that they would not negotiate with ARod after he opted out, have decided to negotiate with ARod after he opted out.

(Now, per IE's reading, you can dispute that what's been reported is true. But that's all we've got, and it in no way indicates that ARod blinked, but rather that the Yankees did.)
   293. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:42 AM (#2615231)
Whatever, as long as he signs, I don't care who got the better of who.

It's possible for nobody to get the better of the other. Who cares who "blinked"?

Negotiating positions are just that, negotiating positions.

Haven't you guys ever negotiated a job offer where you say you couldn't think about moving for less than a 20% raise, and they say everyone gets two weeks vacation to start; but when they offer 15% you agree, and you insist on 4 weeks and they agree?

If ARod is the Yankees best option, and the Yankees are ARod's best option, they will reach an agreement, and nonbody needs to end up being screwed.
   294. Fat Al Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:46 AM (#2615232)
(Now, per IE's reading, you can dispute that what's been reported is true. But that's all we've got, and it in no way indicates that ARod blinked, but rather that the Yankees did.)


But what does it matter to the Yankees? As long as they can later spin it that they stood their ground and Rodriguez came back to them, they will not (to the extent it even matters) have sacrificed credibility in their negotiating stance. If people call them out on their spin, so what, they have the cover they need. Beyond credibility in future negotiations, what future significance does any of this gamesmanship have?
   295. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:49 AM (#2615234)
I think the Yankees are absolutely doing the right thing in negotiating with ARod, and I think Yankee fans should be happy about it.

I'm just enjoying this because of all the people defending the Yankees "good-bye" stance when ARod left, which I said was stupid, and which I said they'd surely not keep up.
   296. cseadog Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:49 AM (#2615235)
A-Rod blinked.

Say you go to buy a car. You make a take it or leave offer; salesman says leave it; you walk out of the showroom; salesman follows you into the parking lot. Who blinked?
   297. jonm Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:49 AM (#2615236)
No, the only thing we know is that the Yankees blinked.


Matt Clement,
Why do you think A-Rod won't get close to the ten year/$325 million deal that you predicted?
   298. Fat Al Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:52 AM (#2615240)
I think the Yankees are absolutely doing the right thing in negotiating with ARod, and I think Yankee fans should be happy about it.

I'm just enjoying this because of all the people defending the Yankees "good-bye" stance when ARod left, which I said was stupid, and which I said they'd surely not keep up.


Yeah, but whether or not it was stupid depends on whether it had any effect in getting them to wherever they end up. Taken at face value, the stance does not appear to have alienated Rodriguez (which could be untrue of course), so the question will be did it save them any money? That remains to be seen (and may never be known).
   299. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:53 AM (#2615241)
I'm just enjoying this because of all the people defending the Yankees "good-bye" stance when ARod left, which I said was stupid, and which I said they'd surely not keep up.

Eh, if I was wrong, so be it, my team will be better for it.
   300. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 15, 2007 at 01:56 AM (#2615245)
Al -

Oh, I only meant it was stupid insofar as they actually meant it. As a negotiating ploy, sure, whatever.
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