Maybe writers just want to make sure people know that there hasnt been a Korean or Chinese manager before either.

It's a tricky one. After all, Chinese Americans and other Asian Americans didn't get put in the concentration camps during WWII, but we were placed in the concentration facilities at Angel Island or in Seattle, and in many areas faced the same pre-WWII Jim Crow treatment that Japanese Americans did.

As to post-war, we got the same* Pearl Harbor references and general racism. After all, most people can't tell the difference.

*obviously it's going to be different from individual to individual, and that goes doubly for mutts and half-breeds.

As to post-war, we got the same* Pearl Harbor references and general racism. After all, most people can't tell the difference.

Oh, it's not really that hard, once you get the hang of it.

Hopefully, the use of "Asian American" was chosen in order to emphasize the magnitude of the event. Obviously becoming the first from a particular nation to be hired is a lesser magnitude than being the first from a whole continent to be hired.

However, I wouldn't detract from the author's reaction.

I wondered if you would oblige, Andy :D
Thanks for that!

and that goes doubly for mutts and half-breeds

Ouch!

I bring this up again because I was kind of disappointed when the news about Don Wakamatsu becoming the first Japanese American to gain the title of Manager of a Major League baseball team when the Seattle Mariners hired him to fill the role for the 2009 season, made the media.

How does a sentence like this make it onto a legitimate news site? One superlong passive clause, and confusing as hell. And, it's not true. He wasn't dissapointed when he heard the news about Wakamatsu, he was dissapointed in the way the news was phrased.

Why not say "I was disappointed to hear the new media refer to Wakamatsu as the first Asian-American."

You know, it's interesting, but I really don't have a difficult time at all telling which country a person of Asian descent can trace back to, or moved here from. Part of me thinks it's because I lived in Oregon for a couple of years in my teens, and there were a ton of Asian-Americans in my junior high and then high school. You see enough Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Islander, etc. and know which they are, it's not hard to tell the particular characteristics after a while. Yet if I ask most anyone in my family, or even friends, when they're talking about "the new Asian guy at work" or whatever, "Where's his family from?", they generally don't have the slightest clue. It's not like UT is lacking an Asian student population, so proximity/exposure isn't the whole story, but I have zero idea what else it could be.

Just because it's somewhat apropos, I'll mention the Vietnamese guy walking through campus some time ago with a shirt that simply said "I'm a Nguyen-ner!" By the time I stopped giggling, he was too far away to ask where he got it.

Well, what I always tell the kids is that it's a skill to be right more often with your ethnic guesses, but it's not really a useful skill because you will be wrong at some point and you will come off like an #######.

Even if you can't tell, it's pretty easy to avoid upsetting or annoying anyone if you approach the issue properly.

Well, what I always tell the kids is that it's a skill to be right more often with your ethnic guesses, but it's not really a useful skill because you will be wrong at some point and you will come off like an #######.

Well, if you're a moron about it, sure. I have been wrong before, and I didn't get a hint of offense taken. I'm not wandering up to random strangers and saying "Youse one of them Kor-eeee-uhns, aintcha? I could tell by the shape of your nose. I said to Wilbur, 'That there is a ginuwine Korean, yessir.'" If it comes up, it comes up.

A friend of ours dated a particularly egregiously dumb guy, and at a party he met our friend who is Filipino. He found this out, asked "Where's that?", and followed up with an even dumber statement, "I thought all Asian people in America were Korean." Asked to expound, he said he thought that Chinese and Japanese people didn't come to America and that every Asian he had ever met or seen was Korean. Much embarrassment and excusing by his gf. Never saw that guy again.

I grew up in a heavily Asian neighbourhood in Toronto, mostly Chinese, Indian, Sri Lankan

I hadn't seen too many natives before I moved out west to go to school. When I first arrived in Winnipeg I thought to myself...man, I didn't realize so many Filipinos lived here.

After doing some googling...the leads may use the term "Asian-American," but there's been plenty of recognition of Wakamatsu's Japanese-American ancestry. E.g., this MLB.com article is about W being the first Asian-American manager, but it also talks about his Japanese-American ancestry.

Interestingly, this St. Louis Post-Dispatch article is about Jose Oquendo's managerial ambitions and mentions Wakamatsu as the first Japanese-American manager:

Just as the Mariners ultimately chose Don Wakamatsu from seven finalists as the first Japanese-American to manage a major league team, Oquendo hopes one day to become the first native Puerto Rican to manage in the majors.

This Seattle Times article is entirely focused on the Japanese-American vantage point.

Well, the Chinese certainly had just as bad treatment in the American west and building the railroads. However, the treatment of the WWII era can be directly traced to... oh, I dont know, the Japanese starting a war of aggression against America and the Chinese being allied with the U.S..

Really, this story is way outdated. Its not "news" that there's a generation gap between 75+ year olds and people below that age.

Man who spent part of his youth in Indonesia just elected President, after all...

However, the treatment of the WWII era can be directly traced to... oh, I dont know, the Japanese starting a war of aggression against America and the Chinese being allied with the U.S..

You are right, but the complete lunacy of blaming Japanese Americans for the actions of a foreign government doesn't make this any easier to accept as the reason.

You are right, but the complete lunacy of blaming Japanese Americans for the actions of a foreign government doesn't make this any easier to accept as the reason.

By no means defending that. I just dont think the attitude persists anymore in anyone who isnt eligible for social security payments. The bigots in this country have moved on to other things to hate.

This article is like if the first Irishman was elected Commissioner this year(probably a strong chance there already was one - but not important) and somebody wrote an article about the poor treatment of the Irish immigrants following the great potato famine. Hard for me to get worked up about it.

This article is like if the first Irishman was elected Commissioner this year(probably a strong chance there already was one - but not important) and somebody wrote an article about the poor treatment of the Irish immigrants following the great potato famine. Hard for me to get worked up about it.

I don't know, the Stanford Band found it to be pretty funny.....at Notre Dame Stadium.....and called Irish people "stinking drunks".....

By no means defending that. I just dont think the attitude persists anymore in anyone who isnt eligible for social security payments. The bigots in this country have moved on to other things to hate.

Then you'd be surprised.

(probably a strong chance there already was one - but not important)

Sure it's important. Your analogy is correct, but the fact that it wouldn't be landmark makes it hard to actually understand what it's like.

I'm a total outsider, but some of my business involves reprinting the old pulp magazines from the '20s and '30s. Certainly, prior to the onset of WWII, Chinese, Indian (South Asian), and Tibetan ethnicities had a bad time of it in low-brow literature, but the Japanese don't come up as villains until Manchuko.*

More highbrow stuff, I think I read a Maxine Hong Kingston collection (either Woman Warrior or China Men) which discussed how Japanese immigrants to America, though still suffering the effects of racism, had a much better time of it than did the Chinese ("Their Emperor is stronger.")

*Apart from Erle Stanley Gardner (who practiced law in Chinatown, SF), Walter Gibson (who visited Chinatowns in NY and Philly), and Hugh Wiley (who was more sensitive to Chinese-Americans after the NAACP specifically targeted his caricatures of African-Americans), pretty much all other pulp authors were extremely xenophobic and overtly racist in their prose. There was one character, Jo Garr, Filipino detective, who I've heard was OK, but never read.

I always found it funny when my 100% German ancestry (but something like 6th generation American) dad always held a grudge against the "japs" but never said a word about the Germans.

Never saw that guy again.

I wonder if he's enjoying the camps.

Really, this story is way outdated. Its not "news" that there's a generation gap between 75+ year olds and people below that age.

In Primer tradition, did anyone actually read this article?

It's not a news story, as in they expect you to be amazed at some breaking story: "Yep, There is A Generation Gap." As Repoz noted in the intro, the actual "generation gap" part of the story is far down the column.

However, just because it is not uncommon for there to be a generation gap, it does not follow that it is worthless to recognize the specifics.

Even if you can't tell, it's pretty easy to avoid upsetting or annoying anyone if you approach the issue properly.

With "properly" being "Who cares? You're an American", I assume.

That's a bit provincial, isn't it?

I have a really good friend that gets really annoyed any time I bring up my German or Welsh heritage (which is several generations removed from those places) essentially saying, "Who cares, you're Canadian"

I find it a bit perplexing. Maybe it's just because of my interest in history, but I don't really see any point in renouncing our heritage simply because we live in North America.

I have multiple and co-existing identities, ("Canadian" is just one of them) and I think I'm the better for it.

mutts and half-breeds

The correct word is hapa(s).

Local people here all assume that they can tell Japanese ancestry from Chinese or Korean. My wife frequently makes fun of me because I cannot, possibly because I make absolutely no effort, not really caring about it.

But if you ask anyone, they will tell you that the best looking local kids are hapa.

I always find that irritating--I'm hot because I'm hot, not because I'm hapa. :D

More highbrow stuff, I think I read a Maxine Hong Kingston collection (either Woman Warrior or China Men) which discussed how Japanese immigrants to America, though still suffering the effects of racism, had a much better time of it than did the Chinese ("Their Emperor is stronger.")

This sentiment probably didn't apply to the West Coast, where proximity made the emotions much stronger, but in the aftermath of the Russo-Japanese war there was a small cottage industry of books full of admiration and praise not only of the Japanese military, but of the Japanese national "character." One of the most fascinating subjects you can find is the evolution of stereotypes about various ethnic groups within the "average" white American's frame of reference. It's not always been a linear progression by any means, and there are often many regional variants.

but I don't really see any point in renouncing our heritage simply because we live in North America.

I feel like more people ignore their North American identity than who renounce anything more distant. I'm one of the only people I know who identifies themselves as American while still inside the country. A lot of people like to say that it's because the United States is built on immigrants and that very few are actually Native American, but there have been other people here for a long time. When the continent began to be colonized, Germany was still the Holy Roman Empire!

As to the actual poster Greg. I know your example is in reference to Canada, but I imagine the situations are pretty similar. Sorry if they're not, but that's just a huge pet peeve of mine. No offense meant to you personally, as I know this can be a sensitive subject.

I'm one of the only people I know who identifies themselves as American while still inside the country.

Don't live in the middle of the country then? This is quite common in many areas of the U.S.

And the clear majority of people I've met who were specifically intolerant of Japanese are Chinese. There's a lot more bad blood there than there is between Japan and the U.S.

Well, yeah. We fought one war against them for a few years, and then we won. The Chinese and the Japanese have been going at it big and small for a long time. Add on that the Chinese feel looked down upon by the Japanese over the last 30 years...

And the clear majority of people I've met who were specifically intolerant of Japanese are Chinese. There's a lot more bad blood there than there is between Japan and the U.S.

Yes, and some Jewish people harbor some resentment toward anti-semetic Germans.

The Japanese government's gymnastics to try to appease the ultra-nationalist revisionist right sure doesn't help in this case.

"I thought all Asian people in America were Korean."

Well, that's the answer a Korean person would probably give.

Maybe it's just because of my interest in history, but I don't really see any point in renouncing our heritage simply because we live in North America.

I think it's more the concept that Welsh or German people would look at you rather strangely if you went up to them and claimed you were Welsh or German because Grandpappy Davies came from Aberdare. One thing I learned by living pretty close to Ireland is that I have very little in common with Irish people, and that it would be insulting to them to claim I'm Irish. Irish people in particular hate this because of all the tourists who come from America and walk around proclaiming their Irishness. Some friends of mine from England did a year at UMass and actually got in a bar fight because some meatheads tried to pick a fight with them for being English, then insulted my friend's girlfriend for being English once it was found out my friend's parents were from Ireland, and therefore he was Irish (even though he speaks in a thick Lancastrian accent). Very few descendants of immigrants have anything like a realistic, nuanced view of the country of origin, which leads to stylized and inaccurate views.

But if you ask anyone, they will tell you that the best looking local kids are hapa.

Maybe, but ugly plus ugly still equals ugly.

Oh yeah definately
When I'm in Germany I don't go around telling Germans I'm one of them. My family moved out of Germany over 200 years ago. In fact, I don't think of myself as "German" at all. I just think it's important to keep in mind that that is where my ancestry comes from.

"Very few descendants of immigrants have anything like a realistic, nuanced view of the country of origin, which leads to stylized and inaccurate views."

I certainly agree with that.

"Very few descendants of immigrants people have anything like a realistic, nuanced view of the country of origin, which leads to stylized and inaccurate views. the world in general."

Fixed to represent one of the fundamental problems in the modern world. The world would be a better place if people weren't always trying to make things seem simpler.

I always thought it was "the world would be a simpler place if people weren't always trying to make things better"

Fixed to represent one of the fundamental problems in the modern world. The world would be a better place if people weren't always trying to make things seem simpler.

Making a simplified statement in order to bemoan that people simplify things... oh the irony.

The cultural distance between me and any Japanese is far smaller than the one between me and a Swede from the 19th century (peasant or gentry doesn't matter). Nothing is as ####### foreign as the past.

Nothing is as ####### foreign as the past.

L.P. Hartley would agree.

I agree with the statements about the children of immigrants not understanding the subtleties of their heritage. I think some of that is because people tend to cling to national identity as a self-identifier. I'm quite guilty of that. I was born in England, but moved to the US as a child. I've spent most of my life here, and looking at it dispassionately, I'm very much an American. Yet my self-identity is almost totally English, to a somewhat absurd degree. I'm about to leave the house, wearing an England football jacket...

The correct word is hapa(s).

I missed this even though I responded to the post.

We do often use "hapa" in the Asian American community even when not associated with Hawaii.

Aren't there some groups in Hawaii though that don't like the appropriation of a term that used to refer to folks who were half-hawaiian?

You'd know much better than me, so that's an honest question.

As for the proper term, I've always been into the self-deprecation route, and if it's good enough for Obama, it should be fine, right?

Aren't there some groups in Hawaii though that don't like the appropriation of a term that used to refer to folks who were half-hawaiian?

Not that I've noticed. There are precious few people of "pure" Hawaiian stock left, but the people who have any Hawaiian ancestry and who identify themselves with that community refer to themselves as "Hawaiian", period. They are aware of their other ancestries, but they don't normally refer to that part of their ancestry, or call themsleves hapa-anything. They are Hawaiian.

The most common derivative of "hapa" here is hapa-haole -- Half Haole (white boy, to you) and half whatever. Hawaiian-Haole, Hawaiian-Chinese, Hawaiian-Japanese, Japanese-Haole, etc. can all at times be referred to as hapa. The biggest exception is probably Japanese-Chinese or Japanese-Korean. They tend to pick one side or the other, and stick to that.