Jeez, I haven’t seen a Young complain this much…since they asked Robert Young to stop drinking on the set of Father Knows Best.
Have you more or less come to grips with everything?
I’ll say this right out of the chute: I didn’t agree with it then. I can’t say I agree now. But, at the same time, those aren’t my calls. My call is to go out there and prepare to play winning baseball, and that’s what I’m going to do.
I know that when spring training takes over, my instincts for the game are going to take over, and I’m going to try to play at as high a level as I can. That’s all I’m focusing on. I’m trying to focus on things I can control.
Have you started preparing for third base?
No. Not at all. One thing about it is I went from second to short, which I’m pretty sure is a harder transition than going to third base. My biggest thing, what I want to bear down on is my responsibilities on bunt plays, cut-offs, get accustomed to that fact that I’m not going to be involved in the action. That was one of the reasons why I was so reluctant to move. You’ve asked me to take less of a leadership role in the infield. I don’t know what’s going on. I don’t know what pitch is coming, what pitchers are shaking to, where catchers are setting up, where hitters are setting up in the box. All that part of the game, I’m out of now. I can’t determine who’s covering second base on steals, or how to switch things up on hit-and-run situations. All that kind of thing I really enjoyed in playing shortstop, and I don’t think there are as many guys as prepared as me to handle those responsibilities, and I don’t want to give them up.
Repoz
Posted: January 25, 2009 at 10:50 AM |
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He'd better not eff up at third then after saying that.
Given how Young has behaved, him taking less of an active leadership role is a feature, not a bug.
Nonetheless...still...yet...either. All in one ugly sentence. I need more coffee.
Bernie Allen...on a small scale.
Pete Rose...after pit stops along the way
Don Buford
Jack Brohamer
So he debuted (in the majors) as a 1B, moved to 2B, and finished as a 3B.
Jackie played SS for the KC Monarchs in 1945, so that's quite a trip around the defensive spectrum.
Heinie Groh was a 2B for two seasons before moving to 3B.
Why is this counterintuitive? Shortstops generally play quite a bit deeper than third basemen.
That's generally what people forget about. All x-axis and no y-axis! I think part of it is simply familiarity with the angle presented on TV - it's very easy to forget while watching TV that a shortstop in the hole has the longest throw. It's not really that people don't know just that visuals have a way of being very important to the brain. I mean, I've known that the earth revolves around the sun since I was like 4, but I still casually think of the sun as setting or rising even though I damn well know that it's not true.
I'm not sure where you heard that report, but that's not accurate. Young has a very good arm. His problem is he has no range. His arm plays at 3B.
A true leader.
It's still a bit counterintuitive for a TV watcher, because of the angles.
5 years to be exact.
I suppose it would be counterintuitive if you've never been near a baseball diamond. But if you've ever played infield, or ran the bases or even watched the game in person, I can't imagine not realizing the average SS throw is longer than the average third baseman's. I always assumed everyone knew that.
There are some random things in that directory I forgot about, such as Jim Bowden unleashed and Mark Ecko-ized history.
Well...I don't know. Young is the highest-paid guy on the team, has made a few All-Star teams, and he is being moved for a 20-year-old rookie who is no sure thing. I can see why he would be grouchy about it, and I think it is unrealistic, as implied in #20, to expect Young to know his UZR and +/- ratings (which, as Danny pointed out last week, were not all that bad last year) and say, "Yeah, I actually suck at SS, even with the All-Star selections EDIT, the Gold Glove, and the big contract, so this is the right thing for the team to do."
I think people are pissed off at Young (I am sure he is taking some #### on blog comment pages in Dallas and around Texas, although I'd guess he has his defenders as well) because prior to this, he had developed a Ripken-type rep: quiet, focused, aware, classy, hard-working, face of the franchise, etc. So, when Young started ########, people really didn't like it, since they expected/wanted him to say, "Heck, I make $16M a year and am one of the luckiest guys in America to be where I am, so I will do whatever is best for his team."
Don't forget that he's being asked to move immediately after winning a Gold Glove for his play at that position, and after playing hurt for the second half of the season for the benefit of the team. Texas really didn't do a great job of timing their request/order.
Good point. See edit.
Well, there is quite a large area in between "should be happy" and "not whine in the national media". This seems to be read pretty clearly in Vaux's #1, in my opinion.
That is pretty f-ing close to the truth.
I missed it. Where did somebody suggest that?
Young had no reasonable expectation to get to play whatever position if he wanted. If he wanted to be able to constrain his team to give him rights and privileges above and beyond those stipulated, Young should have asked for it in his contract and made additional concessions on his end in return.
As such, he's chosen to exercise his right to be a whiny little ####. And we are exercising our rights to criticize him and point out that he's full of ####.
If Michael Young wants to decide where players play, a power he does not possess, he should ask the team to become the next manager. And if Michael Young doesn't want to do his job, he has the right to refuse to play and be placed on the restricted list or alternatively, to ask the Rangers to release him from the contract, a request that the Rangers would no doubt grant.
Can't agree more. Young is being 'respected' with $16M. Over/under on the next whiny millionaire athlete story, could be 24hrs, a week, a month maybe. I'd like to lose all those under bets.
This post--and Dan's bizarre rant in #29--are good examples of the old Bill James line about how "athletes are heroes" and we judge them more harshly than we judge ourselves. Very few people in my exp get up every morning and think about how lucky they are to have the good things in their lives, behave all day in a way that reflects that, and speak consistently in those terms. I suppose you could say since athletes get all the money and perks they do, they should act/talk that way more than a guy who has his health, a nice family and makes 60K a year at a good job, but OTOH, Young is where he is in part due to hard work and exceptional talent and jocks are, after all, human beings with the same flaws as the rest of us. And, extending the "logic" from the quoted post, really rich people should never complain about anything, ever.
WRT Young specifically, here we have a high-paid, high-profile employee who just last year won some of the highest honors in his field, being moved aside for a guy who has not even finished his training yet, so to speak. Transfer this scenario to a law firm, a university, a software development company, a police force, and there is little question in my mind that the employee in Young's position would ##### some 9 times out of 10. Many would quit and move to another firm/company/school if they could. Young can't really do that, and when he #######, it is a news story, but that--and his salary--are really the main differences.
Note also there is no "Operation Shutdown" stuff going on here (although the "not prepping" line was ill-advised). He is just saying he disagrees with it and will miss playing in the middle of the infield.
I dunno, RR. "We have this kid we want to bring into the firm/department/division. We're going to move you over to an equally important position that we don't have anyone as remotely good as you able to fill. You'll get the same pay and continued leadership position amongst the lesser/junior members/staff/faculty."
It's different as a baseball player has a far shorter career than any of these positions would hope for, but I'm not sure I agree entirely with your comparison.
There's also Phil Garner, whom the Astros moved to third to make room for Bill Doran.
That one worked out okay; Garner remained a solid performer for a few years, and Doran was an outstanding player until his back started acting up...
"I know you have been named one of the best widgetmakers the last three years running, and last year you won the WonderWidget, a prestigious award which says you are the best at making DefenseWidgets, and we use you to promote WidgetCo in all our marketing. But there is this kid--still a junior in college, actually--and we really like his potential as a widgetmaker, so we are going to give him your job and move you over to a new job at the same salary. It is pretty similar to what you do now, but not as demanding in some ways, because, well, even though you won the WonderWidget we don't think your DefenseWidgets are really all that great."
Of course he can. If it's such a big deal to Young, he's perfectly free to ask the Rangers to void the contract, a request which would no doubt be granted.
Then, Young will be perfectly free to contract his services and negotiate a clause with a new franchise that allows him to choose where he wants to play, a provision that he did not negotiate into his current contract.
Tell me, do you base your investments on the financials of the company or the opinion polls of the company? And if you do the former, why should you get the privilege of investing your resources in the best way possible while the Rangers don't? Is GM justified to take an ad out in the paper saying how much Robinred sucks because he chose to invest in a company based on financial particulars rather than GM, home of the #1 Car of the Year, the Chevy Malibu?
And you know that they would void it how? You don't. They might, I guess, but I think they would try to discuss it first if Young actually went to that extreme--which he almost certainly wouldn't. In addition, of course, you are projecting how "big of a deal" it is based on your own feelings about the issue. Young has complained about it a couple of times when asked. You seem to think that is a "big deal." But he is moving to 3b, and I think we should believe him when he says he will play hard.
Just for the record... when Davey Johnson moved Ripken to third Cal didn't really handle it all that well either. Granted, he was being moved in favor of Manny Alexander, which made his displeasure perfectly understandable, but IIRC (I live in Maryland) he made it well known to the media that he wasn't happy about it. Some of this was a Johnson power play -- it did take gonads to uproot the franchise icon -- but Ripken could have stated his objections more privately.
Alexander (predictably) sucked, so Ripken was trotted back to short a couple of weeks later. When he did finally move it was in favor of Mike Bordick, and Cal went out of his way to praise his replacement. Johnson was long gone (along with the Orioles as a winning organization)...
You are missing the point, as you tend to do when you get caught up in black/white chest-thumping rhetoric. What I am saying is that I think a lot of people in Young's position would complain, so I think it's kind of dumb to go off on him so harshly for it--as long as he moves to 3b, if that is the decision, and plays hard, which he will, IMO. As to whether they should actually move him--I don't know. It depends on what defensive metrics they trust and how accurate they are, and on how good Elvis Andrus is with the leather. There was a long thread about this last week, and Jeff K, a Ranger fan, has some doubts.
And you know that they would void it how?
Well, based on it being a terrible deal, it seems likely.
I mean, I don't know for a fact that my next door neighbor would sell me yesterday's newspaper in the garbage for $2,000, but I have reason to believe that it is very likely.
You don't. They might, I guess, but I think they would try to discuss it first if Young actually went to that extreme--which he almost certainly wouldn't.
Discuss it first? If Michael Young let the Rangers out of a contract in which they're paying probably in the range of $40-$50 million more than they're getting out of it, I think Tom Hicks would have his pen out before Young even finished the sentence.
In addition, of course, you are projecting how "big of a deal" it is based on your own feelings about the issue. Young has complained about it a couple of times when asked. You seem to think that is a "big deal." But he is moving to 3b, and I think we should believe him when he says he will play hard.
He's already stated that he's not bothering to prepare for his new job, after complaining about his new job, which leads me to extrapolate that it is likely he won't try very hard.
If you were on trial for something and your lawyer told you that he didn't want to take your case and that he's not going to do any preparation for your case, wouldn't you come to the conclusion that he was more likely than not to not put a lot of effort into your case?
Good post. I was going to mention that as well. If the Rangers were bringing in, say, a 29- year-old Omar Vizquel as an FA, (and of course they have brought in Omar v.2009) my guess is Young wouldn't say much if anything.
There's a difference between complaining and complaining publicly to a newspaper with the expectation that it would be disseminated towards millions.
If my girlfriend drinks the last of my beer that I was looking forward, I can certainly grouse a little. But if I go into facebook and call her a thief and buy some banner ads on major sites accusing her of being a skank that doesn't appreciate me, I'm a schmuck.
as long as he moves to 3b, if that is the decision, and plays hard, which he will, IMO.
Young has ####### about the new job to the media repeatedly. He's stated that he's not doing any preparation for his new job.
Don't you teach (sorry, I forget)? What if a kid tells you that he hates your class and he has no intention of preparing for your class. Do you then still have an expectation that the kid's going to work hard on the upcoming final?
Good post. I was going to mention that as well. If the Rangers were bringing in, say, a 29- year-old Omar Vizquel as an FA, (and of course they have brought in Omar v.2009) my guess is Young wouldn't say much if anything.
Nobody's saying that Young can't complain, but he chose to take his personal disagreements to a whole other level. Taking your private disagreements public, especially when you haven't actually been wronged in any way, is what schmucks do.
You need to start reading a little better:
I’ll say this right out of the chute: I didn’t agree with it then. I can’t say I agree now. But, at the same time, those aren’t my calls. My call is to go out there and prepare to play winning baseball, and that’s what I’m going to do.
I know that when spring training takes over, my instincts for the game are going to take over, and I’m going to try to play at as high a level as I can. That’s all I’m focusing on. I’m trying to focus on things I can control.
***
As far as "voiding the contract" the scenario is, actually, as you know, a non-starter. All you are saying here is, "Young's complaining irritates me."
Young's the one that seems to want powers that he doesn't currently have. Do the Rangers also get to ##### about provisions in the contract that they'd like buy don't have the power to force? Should Tom Hicks get to complain if Young doesn't mow his lawn?
All you are saying here is, "Young's complaining irritates me."
Well, duh. I'm not suggesting that Young violated his contract.
Well, that is part of being a celeb. If you are saying Young used poor judgment in saying this to a reporter, then I wouldn't disagree there. OTOH, he is being honest.
Maybe you need to take a reading lesson.
He's outright stated that he's done no preparation for his new job. That's a fact. Whether he claims that he's "going to" prepare for his new job later has absolutely zero relevance to the fact that he hasn't done any preparation yet.
Well, again, I think you are projecting a little:
Young: I didn’t agree with it then. I can’t say I agree now. But, at the same time, those aren’t my calls.
No, but you are suggesting that Young yapping to some media guys about this is a huge deal, a huge problem, and that Young is really being a dick by doing so.
George W. Bush clearly believes that he was a good president and he won two presidential election.
Now, if Bush came out and said that the voters were unfair to elect a Democrat after the Republican won two elections, would you sit there and quietly accept that? I think not.
No, but you are suggesting that Young yapping to some media guys about this is a huge deal, a huge problem, and that Young is really being a dick by doing so.
Yes, he's being a dick about it. It was a shitty thing to do.
I read that and acknowledged in this thread that was not a smart thing to say. At the same time, this is not Operation Shutdown. You seem to have a bug up your ass. Why is that?
Hmmm. I think this answers my question in the above post.
Since I think Young should take his demotion like a man, I'm being called an asshat, so I'm perfectly within my rights to have a bug up my butt about the principle.
Fine, but that is not one of my posts.
Useful info here.
Don't forget the book.
Gong shi fa tsai!
Edgardo Alfonzo is the one that leaps to my mind. (on the right in this photo) However it seems that he actually went from 3B to 2B to accommodate Robin Ventura, and then back to 3B three years later to accommodate (sigh) Roberto Alomar.
Useful info here.
Don't forget the book.
Gong shi fa tsai!
Actually, he's referring to my little-used BBTF directory here where I have some of that stuff linked and/or stashed.
Heretic.
There really isn't any way for this sort of move of a MLB player not to be a public matter. They have beat reporters following them all the time, and the lineups are announced publicly. However, I think the idea that Young is out of line for discussing his opinion on the subject with a reporter while not thinking that the Rangers are out of line by, effectively, criticizing him in the press is stupid.
Paul Molitor is the most obvious one. Molitor was actually a SS who moved to 2B because the Brewers had Robin Yount, then moved to 3B (after a stint in the OF during which he got hurt) when Jim Gantner came up.
David Bell played 2B early in his Cleveland career before moving to 3B, but I think he was originally a 3B.
Ken Oberkfell had two full seasons as the Cardinals' 2B, then went to 3B to make room for Tommy Herr.
Going back a few years, Heinie Groh came up as a 2B and played there two years, as well.
Then, of course, there is Pete Rose, although he didn't go directly to 3B after moving from 2B.
Garth Iorg was originally a 2B.
-- MWE
A Troll's troll, indeed.
"The sporting world is a refuge in a world of laziness and sloth, indecision and lack of commitment, hedged values and shortcuts, a corner in which individuals are commanded to reach down inside and find the best that's in there, and apply it to ... this nothing, these games, these silly rules that tell them where to run and when to run there. Athletes are heroes; that is their job."
I didn't have to look it up in the Abstracts; I'd quoted it before on rsb nearly ten years ago.
Whatever you White people do, DO NOT GO SEE RED CLIFF II. The first one was merely a bad yet entertaining action film.
I don't even know what the sequel was, other than a huge flaming PILE OF KRAP
I think the difference is that Young is clearly overpaid, and has long term job security, via his contract. Most people would ##### b/c they'd view the transfer as the beginning of the end for them, and fear being fired.
It's not even a "demotion" in any meaningful sense. If he was being benched, sure, ##### away.
The diamond in #19 is wrong, the angles are clearly not right angles.
The Mets SI cover is hilarious. Best infield ever. I like the headlock.
Alexander (predictably) sucked, so Ripken was trotted back to short a couple of weeks later. When he did finally move it was in favor of Mike Bordick, and Cal went out of his way to praise his replacement. Johnson was long gone (along with the Orioles as a winning organization)...
Johnson was still the manager when Ripken was moved to SS in 1997. And the Orioles were very much a winning organization that year. It was after that season that Johnson was fired and everything fell apart.
Only those without pride think that respect can be bought.
It is clear that Young is taking it as one. And he's right--in what world is taking on fewer responsibilities of less importance not a demotion.
I completely agree. We want athletes to be forthcoming in the press and then criticize them when they are. Moreover since he is exhibiting positive character traits here the criticism is slavish moralizing. As Robin mentioned he's being talked about as if he is Derek Bell which is totally ridiculous.
I don't even know what this means.
That's fair, as I don't even know what THIS means:
Moreover since he is exhibiting positive character traits here the criticism is slavish moralizing.
It's the same thing I said before - just because I think that Young is not behaving well here doesn't mean I think he is history's greatest monster. Or even this off-season's. Whining at your own dissatisfaction is such a part of life these days it's barely notable. But he most certainly is NOT exhibiting "positive character traits" by my definition. If I think someone isn't being a great guy, is that slavish moralizing, Gaelan?
In that case, there's an easy solution for Young - as noted above, he can ask to have his contract voided and become a free agent. Then presumably he can find a team that will treat him with the respect he deserves.
But...but...how will he get his 200 hits a year if he's batting 7th?
On a (more) serious note: What's your optimal lineup construction that doesn't have Young near the top of the order?
Wow, the nanny doesn't catch 'shitty'?
Sorry, carry on.
Well, maybe I was thinking "6th or 7th for an actual good team" :) The '09 Rangers aren't shaping up as a miracle of OBP, I will grant you that.
That's a shitty way to behave.
Which, the 'shits' or Dan and Robinred's deathmatch?
I am not surprised. It doesn't catch "feculent," "stercoraceous," or "coprophilous," either.
Were Lassus referring to the former, he would have stated it was going to come out badly.
The UFC RobinRed vs. Szymborski is old news to me. At least until it hits DVD.
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