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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Saturday, January 06, 2007

2007 ZiPS Projections - St. Louis Cardinals


Name                     P  Age   AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS 
Albert Pujols            1b  27  .320  .423  .643 151 566 125 181 37  1 48 122  99  57  9  3 
Scott Rolen              3b  32  .287  .371  .509 133 481  87 138 37  2 22  93  59  69  4  2 
Jim Edmonds*             cf  37  .262  .372  .516 123 401  69 105 28  1 24  76  71 121  4  2 
John Rodriguez*          lf  29  .270  .344  .465 120 333  52  90 20  3 13  52  35  88  4  2 
Chris Duncan*            lf  26  .266  .346  .457 144 455  68 121 22  1 21  65  55 112  2  3 
Brian Daubach*           1b  35  .250  .355  .420  86 276  38  69 17  0 10  41  43  64  0  1 
Taggert Bozied           1b  27  .253  .330  .475  54 162  17  41 12  0  8  28  16  32  0  1 
Eli Marrero              rf  33  .254  .328  .450  67 169  22  43 12  0  7  25  17  38  3  0 
Ryan Ludwick             rf  28  .247  .316  .459 118 425  42 105 25  1 21  57  38 127  1  3 
Ronnie Belliard          2b  32  .273  .331  .397 126 476  58 130 29  0 10  57  37  98  1  1 
Scott Spiezio#           3b  34  .245  .328  .394 103 277  35  68 13  2  8  37  31  54  1  0 
Larry Bigbie*            lf  29  .260  .325  .402  96 311  45  81 15  1  9  40  30  82  4  2 
David Eckstein           ss  32  .282  .346  .346 127 514  74 145 20  2  3  35  39  44  7  4 
Juan Encarnacion         rf  31  .265  .315  .405 122 442  53 117 22  2 12  58  28  72  3  4 
Jorge Toca               1b  32  .271  .306  .412  84 306  34  83 16  0  9  39  13  61  0  1 
Nick Stavinoha           rf  25  .266  .308  .402 107 376  51 100 16  1 11  50  22  63  1  1 
Adam Kennedy*            2b  31  .273  .332  .366 136 440  52 120 23  3  4  49  34  67 15  7 
Preston Wilson           lf  32  .249  .308  .396  98 361  41  90 18  1 11  48  27  94  4  2 
So Taguchi               lf  37  .275  .324  .364 124 305  38  84 16  1  3  35  21  48  9  2 
Juan Richardson          3b  28  .253  .313  .386 119 396  42 100 21  1 10  46  31 109  0  4 
Aaron Miles#             2b  30  .275  .319  .350 124 426  52 117 17  3  3  35  26  43  6  3 
Cody Haerther*           lf  23  .252  .299  .390 123 397  45 100 21  2 10  43  27  65  3  3 
Timo Perez*              cf  32  .251  .307  .367  91 259  26  65 12  0  6  30  19  27  2  1 
Skip Schumaker*          cf  27  .263  .315  .347 124 415  52 109 19  2  4  27  29  53 12  5 
Junior Spivey            2b  32  .214  .321  .330  68 224  24  48 11  0  5  20  31  55  5  4 
Bo Hart                  3b  30  .233  .288  .337 108 347  50  81 19  1  5  26  23  59  6  2 
Michel Hernandez         c   28  .243  .310  .301  85 259  20  63  9  0  2  22  24  26  1  1 
Tyler Greene             ss  23  .222  .283  .329 134 487  61 108 20  1 10  40  35 156 27  5 
Brendan Ryan             ss  25  .246  .289  .327  69 248  36  61 17  0  1  16  14  30  6  2 
Jose Vizcaino#           ss  39  .246  .295  .325  91 203  19  50 11  1  1  17  13  27  0  1 
Derek Wathan#            2b  30  .238  .274  .348  71 244  27  58 14  2  3  18  11  46  6  3 
Yadier Molina            c   24  .232  .279  .338 128 423  34  98 21  0  8  53  24  36  1  2 
John Nelson              ss  28  .204  .274  .338 108 343  33  70 16  0 10  31  30 127  5  1 
Reid Gorecki             cf  26  .209  .284  .340 101 359  38  75 20  0  9  40  36  92 13  8 
Gary Bennett             c   35  .224  .292  .305  61 174  13  39  8  0  2  20  16  32  0  0 
Ryan Christianson        c   26  .208  .266  .322  91 307  26  64 11  0  8  31  23  86  4  1 
Desi Relaford#           2b  33  .200  .285  .294  97 310  38  62 15  1  4  26  33  56  4  3 
Travis Hanson*           3b  26  .216  .263  .306 133 477  46 103 20  1  7  43  30  96  1  1 
Miguel Negron*           rf  24  .204  .266  .278 121 485  64  99 20  2  4  35  38  72 10  9 

* - Bats Left
# = Switch-Hitter

Player Spotlight (Beta) - Albert Pujols

Name               AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS
Optimistic (15%)  .345  .453  .689 156 585 148 200 46  2 51 153 115  50 11  2   
Mean              .320  .423  .643 151 566 125 181 37  1 48 122  99  57  9  3     	   
Pessimistic (15%) .300  .395  .557 133 497  97 149 29  0 33  90  78  55  6  3  

Top Near-Age Comps: Jeff Bagwell, Frank Thomas

Name                     Age    ERA   W   L   G  GS     INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
Chris Carpenter           32   3.06  16   6  30  30   209.0  187   71  21   42  170 
Adam Wainwright           25   3.45   7   4  71   0    86.0   80   33  10   22   71 
Braden Looper             32   3.53   7   4  68   0    74.0   75   29   5   23   43 
Jason Isringhausen        34   3.54   5   3  63   0    61.0   50   24   6   30   56 
Brad Thompson             25   3.60   4   2  57   5    95.0   95   38  10   26   57 
Anthony Reyes             25   3.86  10   7  27  26   154.0  147   66  24   39  130 
Josh Hancock              29   3.99   3   2  47   3    70.0   68   31   8   21   44 
Josh Kinney               28   4.01   4   4  73   0    92.0   84   41   9   44   72 
Russ Springer             38   4.17   2   2  62   0    54.0   50   25   8   19   43 
Andy Cavazos              26   4.28   6   5  64   0    80.0   78   38   8   37   59 
Jeff Weaver               30   4.28  11  11  30  30   187.0  195   89  25   52  116 
Orber Moreno              30   4.29   1   1  18   0    21.0   21   10   1   10   14 
Randy Flores*             31   4.40   4   3  51   0    47.0   48   23   5   20   39 
Troy Cate*                26   4.42   4   3  41   0    53.0   48   26   7   29   51 
Mark Mulder*              29   4.61  10  10  27  27   170.0  179   87  20   66  100 
Brian Falkenborg          29   4.65   4   5  50   0    60.0   62   31   8   23   43 
Blake Hawksworth          24   4.81   9  10  31  29   176.0  189   94  20   72   98 
Jorge Sosa                30   4.97   5   7  37  11    96.0   95   53  15   52   80 
Kip Wells                 30   4.98   6   9  22  22   121.0  121   67  15   67   91 
Ricardo Rincon*           37   5.00   1   2  56   0    36.0   33   20   4   25   33 
John Riedling             31   5.06   2   4  42   0    48.0   51   27   5   25   27 
Dennis Tankersley         28   5.11   7   9  27  24   148.0  157   84  21   67   91 
Matt Perisho*             32   5.11   2   3  42   0    37.0   37   21   5   20   26 
Tyler Johnson*            26   5.25   2   3  67   0    60.0   53   35   8   47   63 
Randy Keisler*            31   5.25   5   8  33  16   120.0  134   70  16   51   65 
Chris Narveson*           25   5.45   5   8  23  22   119.0  126   72  20   60   78 
Stuart Pomeranz           22   5.48   6   9  23  23   138.0  161   84  24   48   66 
Mike Smith                29   5.49   6  10  30  25   159.0  173   97  24   83   79 
Brad Voyles               30   5.64   3   5  14  11    67.0   73   42  15   28   47 
Eric Haberer*             24   5.69   7  12  29  28   174.0  201  110  25   79   72 
Ricardo Rodriguez         29   5.75   5   8  18  17   108.0  127   69  19   40   44 
Dennis Dove               25   5.82   4   7  62   0    82.0   95   53  16   32   45 
Will Cunnane              33   5.87   2   3  31   2    46.0   51   30   8   24   30 
Chris Lambert             24   6.63   6  15  28  28   148.0  170  109  33   81   96 

* - Throws Left

Player Spotlight (Beta) - Chris Carpenter
                    ERA   W   L   G  GS  INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
Optimistic (15%)   2.53  20   5  33  33  235  196   66  18   42  196
Mean               3.06  16   6  30  30  209  187   71  21   42  170   
Pessimistic (15%)  3.76  11   8  25  25  170  164   71  22   39  133 

Top Near-Age Comps:  Mike Mussina, David Cone

Disclaimer:  ZiPS projections are computer-based projections of performance.  
Performances have not been allocated to predicted playing time in the majors - 
many of the players listed above are unlikely to play in the majors at all in 2007.  
ZiPS is projecting equivalent production - a .240 ZiPS projection may end up 
being .280 in AAA or .300 in AA, for example.  Whether or not a player will play 
is one of many non-statistical factors one has to take into account when predicting 
the future.

Players are noted with their most recent teams unless Dan has made a mistake.  

ZiPS is projecting based on the AL having a 4.51 ERA and the NL having a 4.37 ERA.
Dan Szymborski Posted: January 06, 2007 at 11:48 AM | 44 comment(s)
  Related News: St LouisZIPS

Reader Comments and Retorts

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Francoeur's Delta Farce (Frent)  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 12:10 PM (#2275459)
Prince Albert is a beast. I like the idea of he and Ryan Howard duking it out for the NL MVP for years to come, although I still maintain I'd give it to Albert every time unless Howard steps up his pitch recognition. It still blows my mind every year Pujols winds up with so few K's.

Oh, and Dan... Is there any way we could see a ZiPS projection on Wainwright as a starter? I don't know the status on Izzy right now and my assumption is Wainwright's being converted to a starting role this season. Anyone with knowledge of the situation, feel free to fill me in.
   2. DCW3   Posted: January 06, 2007 at 12:16 PM (#2275462)
Huh, those aren't bad projections from Rodriguez or Duncan at all--that would still probably make Duncan a pretty bad player, given that he plays the outfield like he's trying to solve a Rubik's Cube while being strafed by World War I biplanes, but it's still nice to have cheap outfield options who project to an .800+ OPS. Which means they'll probably give So Taguchi 500 ABs.
   3. greenback  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 12:21 PM (#2275465)
Everything I've read indicates that the Cardinals would've preferred to leave Wainwright in the pen at least in April, but when it takes 4/40 to sign Jeff Suppan, they recognize don't have a choice.

Those are nice looking projections for J-Rod and Marrero. ZiPS doesn't like Encarnacion as much as it did a year ago.
   4. Francoeur's Delta Farce (Frent)  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 12:22 PM (#2275466)
given that he plays the outfield like he's trying to solve a Rubik's Cube while being strafed by World War I biplanes

This is easily the funniest and most accurate description I've read of Chris Duncan's fielding "ability".
   5. 8ball  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 12:27 PM (#2275467)
I've always liked Ryan Ludwick, and ZiPs projects him as being a pretty good 4th outfielder. Any chance he sticks on the major league roster?
   6. greenback  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 12:27 PM (#2275468)
Dan, regarding Duncan's projection, have you noticed any difference in the development pattern for rookie LHB versus rookie RHB? I'd guess some LHB get a bit of a bounce from facing LHP less in the majors than they did in the minors.
   7. Mike J  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 01:08 PM (#2275484)
Pretty optimistic project for Jimmy Ballgame, imo, I'll take the under on him and the over on Kennedy. I'll also take Molina to blow his projection away with a lofty .245/.295/.365 line.
   8. TOLAXOR  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 01:09 PM (#2275485)
"Taggert Bozied"

IS MY NEW FAVORITE BASEBALL NAME!!!
   9. frannyzoo  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 01:16 PM (#2275487)
Forget the whims of stupid MVP voters...Pujols is heading toward top five all-time right-handed hitter territory at this rate. And I agree, that K rate is positively Hornsby-esque.
   10. Dan Szymborski  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 01:23 PM (#2275492)

Oh, and Dan... Is there any way we could see a ZiPS projection on Wainwright as a starter? I don't know the status on Izzy right now and my assumption is Wainwright's being converted to a starting role this season. Anyone with knowledge of the situation, feel free to fill me in.


I'm actually working on a module to do that kind of thing right now, in order to give me a little more freedom to project pitching role changes better.
   11. Walt Davis  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 01:25 PM (#2275493)
That Encarnacion projection makes no sense. It's certainly possible -- he's had seasons like that in 2001 and 2004, though the latter was in Dodgers and the Marlins stadia. But his career SLG is 441, he's been a smidgen above that the last two seasons, and only once (2000) has he had an ISO that low. 265/315/435 I could believe (and it's not a huge improvement over what you've got), but just can't imagine how he could be projected to slug as low as 405 with an ISO of 140.

I'm also a little surprised that Edmonds projects as well.
   12. AlexIsADirtySanchez  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 01:29 PM (#2275497)
Even without a designated 5th starter, that staff looks pretty darn good. Can't wait to see a sim on this year's ZiPS. Kinda surprised Hawksworth projects better than Narveson. Thompson is underrated by the Cardinal community as a whole.

Aka RedbirdRay
   13. OCF  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 01:30 PM (#2275498)
I'm also a little surprised that Edmonds projects as well.

I suppose that's a question for Dan - what does his "pessimistic" line look like? I'd have to think that Edmonds is at least looking at the edge of the cliff.
   14. AROM  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 01:30 PM (#2275499)
Since the Cards are getting back everyone from that 2000 trade and need starting pitching, can you run a ZIPS on Kent Bottenfield? :-)
   15. Gold Star for Robothal  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 02:02 PM (#2275511)
Edmonds' slip last year was almost completely against left-handed pitching -- he actually hit righties better in 06 than in 05. I'm curious to see whether last year was an anamoly, or the first (or second) step down a steep decline.
   16. 1k5v3L, Useless  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 02:21 PM (#2275518)
Tigers signed outfielder Timo Perez to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.

Timo and Neifi on the same team? The really amazing thing is that neither would be the worst hitter on the roster, what with Ramon Santiago already locked into a spot. Timo, though, shouldn't have any chance of winning a job out of spring training.
Source: Detroit News
   17. Balkroth  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 02:34 PM (#2275523)
I'd say there is little to no chance of Ludwick making the team as a reserve outfielder.

I kinda hoped Zips would have Pu-Pu projected to 581 ABs, but oh well.

Oh, and is Carps the best "take a shot on the guy" luck out of all time? Wow.
   18. El Hombre Triple MVP (Alex)  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 03:46 PM (#2275567)
What, "only" .320 for Pujols? :-) Guy's only hit below .329 once.
   19. danup  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 05:34 PM (#2275586)
DCW3 that is maybe the best description I have ever heard.

Of anything.
   20. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!)  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 05:38 PM (#2275588)
Prince Albert is a beast.
You have to love a guy whose "pessimistic" ZiPS gives him a ZiPS that would've been 8th in the NL last year.
   21. DCW3   Posted: January 06, 2007 at 05:40 PM (#2275589)
You know, I just checked Duncan's card on Baseball Prospectus, and saw that they have him listed at two FRAA in the outfield. Now, I've learned not to trust my eyes too much when it comes to defense, but I like to think that I can still judge the extremes--and, my God, that has to completely destroy whatever little credibility FRAA still has as a stat.
   22. NBarnes  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 05:54 PM (#2275594)
17: No, that goes to Johan Satana.
   23. danup  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 06:00 PM (#2275597)
I'd definitely take that Edmonds projection.

And I'll definitely break Yadi's knees if he hits like that again.
   24. Walt Davis  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 06:48 PM (#2275612)
And I'll definitely break Yadi's knees if he hits like that again.

You sure? Have you checked the alternatives? :-)
   25. danup  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 08:30 PM (#2275647)
Hey, Gary Bennett may not have a lot of pop, but look at that OBP! Nearly .300!
   26. greenback  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 09:25 PM (#2275662)
And I'll definitely break Yadi's knees if he hits like that again.

If Yadier Molina ran and hit with broken knees, could we tell?

Speaking of "take a shot on the guy" guys, mighty Transaction Oracle, could we see a projection somewhere for Chris Gissell? I believe he pitched for Seibu in 2006, which I'd guess means you have a ready-made translator for him. Not that he's special or anything, but it wouldn't surprise me if he looked statistically as good as a couple of pitchers who next year will make 10 or 20 times what Gissell makes in 2007.
   27. Dan Szymborski  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 09:36 PM (#2275668)
Gissell will appear on the final disk, he's just not currently assigned to a team.

I did finish my little start/relief toy. It has Wainwright at 11-8, 3.85 in 166 IP as a starter.
   28. El Hombre Triple MVP (Alex)  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 09:51 PM (#2275673)
I did finish my little start/relief toy. It has Wainwright at 11-8, 3.85 in 166 IP as a starter.


If Reyes, Wainwright and Edmonds meet their projections, the Cardinals are in nice shape.
   29. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 10:24 PM (#2275685)
Are the Cardinals a better bet to win the 2007 World Series than they were to win the 2006 World Series after having made the playoffs, barely? Inquiring St Louis minds want to know.
   30. myst333  Posted: January 06, 2007 at 10:49 PM (#2275699)
A lot of it comes down to Tony. If he reconizes that the kids can do the job and lets them play over people like So, Juan, whatever re-tread comes in to pitch in the #5 slot, then they have a good chance.

If Juan E and So combine for 700 AB next year, its not going to be pretty. If JRod starts against RHP, we have a chance.

If Thompson / Naverson fight it out for the #5 slot it may go well. If we dump 10mil into a replacement level pitcher for that slot, not so much.
   31. KJOK  Posted: January 07, 2007 at 02:22 AM (#2275743)
You sure? Have you checked the alternatives? :-)

Marrero looks like a fine alternative, right? ;>)
   32. Astro-Bonilla  Posted: January 07, 2007 at 06:27 AM (#2275772)

Are the Cardinals a better bet to win the 2007 World Series than they were to win the 2006 World Series after having made the playoffs, barely? Inquiring St Louis minds want to know.
Not even close. Because of the variance (or luck or whatever you want to call it) involved in short series-the devil rays take 4 out of 7 (in a row) vs. the red sox and/or yanks just about every year-any team that makes the playoffs has a decent chance of winning it.

I doubt the Cardinals were any bigger than 60/40 dogs in any of the series they played.
   33. GuyM  Posted: January 07, 2007 at 07:45 AM (#2275778)
It has Wainwright at 11-8, 3.85 in 166 IP as a starter.

Seems like you may have a problem with the toy (or Wainwright's relief projection). A pitcher should be projected to have an ERA about .80 to 1.0 higher as a starter than as a reliever. If he's really a 3.85 starter, he should be better than a 3.45 reliever.
   34. Dan Szymborski  Posted: January 07, 2007 at 09:04 AM (#2275785)

Seems like you may have a problem with the toy (or Wainwright's relief projection). A pitcher should be projected to have an ERA about .80 to 1.0 higher as a starter than as a reliever. If he's really a 3.85 starter, he should be better than a 3.45 reliever.


The tool projects most pitchers to have an ERA 20-30% higher as a starter than a reliever. Wainwright's one of the exceptions as none of his periphs decline into the danger zone and his park protects him.
   35. Dan Szymborski  Posted: January 07, 2007 at 09:08 AM (#2275786)
The tool projects most pitchers to have an ERA 20-30% higher as a starter than a reliever.

For example, while Wainwright only goes to 3.85, Looper goes from 3.53 to 4.72 and Thompson goes from 3.60 to 4.47.
   36. GuyM  Posted: January 07, 2007 at 09:16 AM (#2275788)
Those other results sound very reasonable. But with 75 IP in relief to work with, we can't possibly know if Wainwright's start/relief gap is more narrow than usual. I guess the question is whether we're saying 1) he's a 3.85 starter (based on minor-lg data), and we're going to project him at 3.45 in relief (sounds reasonable), or 2) we think he's a 3.45 reliever, who will only gain .40 if moved to the rotation (not reasonable). I'm not sure which ZIPS is really telling us.

BTW, could you post a link to a description of the ZIPS methodology?
   37. PitViper  Posted: January 07, 2007 at 08:46 PM (#2276049)
Why does ZIPS think that a 37-year old Jim Edmonds will go from an OPS of .822 to .888, especially considering that his OPS has declined in each of the last 2 seasons?
   38. DCW3   Posted: January 08, 2007 at 02:27 AM (#2276158)
Why does ZIPS think that a 37-year old Jim Edmonds will go from an OPS of .822 to .888, especially considering that his OPS has declined in each of the last 2 seasons?

Because a player whose OPS has declined each of the last two seasons should be considered a good bet to rebound.
   39. bibigon  Posted: January 08, 2007 at 03:12 AM (#2276162)
Dan, could you run the starter/relief toy on Papelbon?
   40. Vaux, A.B.D.  Posted: January 08, 2007 at 04:34 AM (#2276166)
Papelbon's ERA will almost certainly be at least four times higher than it was last year.
   41. OCF  Posted: January 08, 2007 at 01:24 PM (#2276363)
like he's trying to solve a Rubik's Cube while being strafed by World War I biplanes

I don't think that line worked on me the way it worked for most readers here - but that's because I personally know someone who can solve a Rubik's Cube one-handed while juggling two others with his other hand. Let him use two hands and he can relibably and repeatedly solve a 3 X 3 X 3 cube in under 15 seconds.
   42. Dan Szymborski  Posted: January 08, 2007 at 01:45 PM (#2276374)
It projects an ERA of 3.85 for Papelbon as a full-time starter. Remember, the original ZiPS projection is a mix of 35 relief appearances and 12 starts already, with the estimate of the starts being 74 innings and the relief appearances being 39 innnings.
   43. Dan Szymborski  Posted: January 08, 2007 at 02:54 PM (#2276417)
BTW, could you post a link to a description of the ZIPS methodology?

I wrote a basic one a few years ago but I can't seem to find it now. I really need to write up a new description - I tend to make the false assumption that everyone reading ZiPS has been involved in every discussion about ZiPS over the last 5 years, which is a pretty stupid assumption.
   44. Dan Szymborski  Posted: January 08, 2007 at 07:48 PM (#2276570)
Actually, Papelbon's 2007 projection translates to 4.00 starting full-time and 3.09 relieving full-time.
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