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— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen
Sunday, January 20, 2008
2008 ZiPS Projections - Baltimore Orioles
Before doing the Baltimore projections, I fearlessly claimed that the Red Sox had the best projections of any AL team. After doing the Orioles projections, I'm not revising that opinion.There are some reasons to like the franchise. That is, if you close your eyes and pretend that this is the time that Angelos won't short-circuit a long-term rebuilding job. Angelos seems to want a painless rebuild, but the time to get a relatively painless rebuild was 10 years ago. While they could have rebuilt after the 1997 season, it's hard to expect any team to rebuild after a 98-win season. But during the 1998 season, when it was clear that they weren't a contender, Angelos stood in the way of any change of direction. Palmeiro and Alomar and Eric Davis simply walked at the end of the season, there wasn't even a whisper of Brady Anderson or B.J. Surhoff being moved, and so on. The major league talent moved on, no minor league talent replaced them for years, and the team took one of the highest concentrations of high draft picks in history (7 of the first 50 picks in the draft) and turned it into Brian Roberts.
Now, a rebuilding job is even more necessary and because the team put it off so long, it's going to be even more painful. The Orioles have accumulated a solid number of minor leaguers, but if there's never truly an organizational will to use the players that develop and the desire to pretend to compete in 2008 in the back of Angelos's mind, it won't help anything.
I think this is the year that the Rays get 4th without needing another team to have horrid luck.
Name P Age AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS
Nick Markakis* rf 24 .294 .357 .486 160 592 90 174 36 3 24 98 56 98 10 4
AVERAGE 1B ------------- 1b ---- .284 .361 .479 ------------------------------------------
Luke Scott* rf 30 .264 .360 .477 142 436 58 115 25 4 20 80 62 94 3 0
Brian Roberts# 2b 30 .287 .363 .437 145 579 93 166 39 3 14 80 70 87 36 7
AVERAGE LF ------------- lf ---- .282 .353 .455 ------------------------------------------
AVERAGE RF ------------- rf ---- .282 .350 .456 ------------------------------------------
AVERAGE 3B ------------- 3b ---- .279 .346 .447 ------------------------------------------
Aubrey Huff* dh 31 .275 .341 .447 140 510 65 140 28 3 18 78 47 92 3 1
Luis Jimenez* 1b 26 .265 .331 .443 126 438 44 116 22 1 18 69 43 100 4 1
AVERAGE CF ------------- cf ---- .276 .339 .424 ------------------------------------------
Jay Gibbons* rf 31 .265 .318 .448 80 279 34 74 18 0 11 43 21 48 0 0
Kevin Millar 1b 36 .258 .354 .384 109 365 47 94 19 0 9 46 46 66 1 0
AVERAGE 2B ------------- 2b ---- .281 .340 .413 ------------------------------------------
AVERAGE SS ------------- ss ---- .279 .333 .406 ------------------------------------------
Nolan Reimold rf 24 .251 .329 .445 110 382 42 96 23 0 17 62 43 96 7 7
Ramon Hernandez c 32 .260 .326 .418 110 385 44 100 20 1 13 55 32 60 1 1
Melvin Mora 3b 36 .265 .333 .397 126 491 70 130 23 0 14 65 43 90 8 2
Brandon Tripp* rf 23 .246 .315 .430 108 391 43 96 23 2 15 58 30 116 4 1
AVERAGE C --------------- c ---- .263 .323 .400 ------------------------------------------
Jay Payton lf 35 .268 .311 .401 114 399 55 107 19 2 10 52 22 44 3 2
Luis Terrero cf 28 .254 .312 .416 119 303 35 77 15 2 10 43 19 71 10 6
Scott Moore* 3b 24 .232 .309 .409 142 499 39 116 23 1 21 75 49 140 7 6
Corey Patterson* cf 28 .257 .295 .402 140 495 70 127 24 3 14 65 25 92 32 7
Oscar Salazar 3b 30 .254 .285 .417 93 362 31 92 24 1 11 50 14 56 3 1
Tike Redman* cf 31 .273 .318 .351 109 362 48 99 16 3 2 36 23 35 13 5
Guillermo Quiroz c 26 .248 .286 .393 70 234 16 58 13 0 7 35 12 49 0 0
Freddie Bynum* lf 28 .254 .304 .379 103 248 39 63 12 5 3 27 16 61 13 6
Michael Costanzo* 3b 24 .225 .300 .366 134 475 39 107 23 1 14 53 45 154 0 1
Brandon Fahey* 2b 27 .254 .314 .330 126 397 49 101 13 4 3 36 32 54 11 6
Omir Santos c 27 .243 .283 .336 93 301 23 73 16 0 4 31 15 59 1 1
Billy Rowell* 3b 19 .230 .272 .352 105 421 35 97 20 2 9 47 22 129 3 4
Paco Figueroa 2b 25 .249 .306 .317 108 401 54 100 19 1 2 35 28 55 15 13
Eider Torres# 2b 25 .243 .281 .314 132 497 44 121 18 1 5 45 26 71 28 12
Brandon Snyder 1b 21 .220 .263 .332 117 446 37 98 21 1 9 48 23 129 0 2
Luis Hernandez# ss 24 .240 .265 .292 140 504 46 121 17 3 1 39 17 67 5 6
Ben Davis# c 31 .216 .247 .291 46 148 10 32 5 0 2 14 7 31 0 1
Paul Bako* c 36 .193 .261 .218 44 119 7 23 3 0 0 7 11 37 0 0
* - Bats Left
# = Switch-Hitter
Name CThr 1b 2b 3b ss lf cf rf
Markakis* Av Pr Av
Scott* Av Av
Roberts# Av
Huff* Fr Pr Pr Pr
Jimenez* Pr
Gibbons* Av Pr
Millar Fr
Reimold Pr Pr
Hernandez Av
Mora Av
Tripp* Av Pr Av
Payton Av Av Av
Terrero Fr Fr Fr
Moore* Av Fr Av
Patterson* Ex
Salazar Av Av Pr
Redman* Vg Fr Vg
Quiroz Vg
Bynum* Av Av Fr Av Av Av
Costanzo* Av
Fahey* Av Av Av Vg
Santos Av
Rowell* Fr
Figueroa Av
Torres# Fr Fr
Snyder Av
Hernandez# Av Av
Davis# Av
Bako* Av
Player Spotlight - Nick Markakis
Name AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS OPS+ DR
Optimistic (15%) .318 .389 .538 162 600 105 191 41 5 27 111 68 85 14 3 141 0
Mean .294 .357 .486 160 592 90 174 36 3 24 98 56 98 10 4 120 -3
Pessimistic (15%) .268 .327 .416 150 555 60 149 29 1 17 78 41 106 6 4 94 -7
Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Vic Wertz, Rafael Palmeiro
Player Spotlight - Brian Roberts
Name AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS OPS+ DR
Optimistic (15%) .310 .391 .498 152 606 112 188 47 5 19 97 82 77 44 6 133 8
Mean .287 .363 .437 145 579 93 166 39 3 14 80 70 87 36 7 110 4
Pessimistic (15%) .263 .335 .378 139 555 63 146 33 2 9 64 60 89 28 7 88 0
Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Bill Doran, Jose Offerman
Name Age ERA W L G GS INN H ER HR BB K
Erik Bedard* 29 3.34 13 6 28 28 175.0 153 65 15 59 184
Chad Bradford 33 3.38 5 2 65 0 56.0 60 21 1 12 28
Jamie Walker* 36 3.81 2 2 68 0 52.0 53 22 5 14 35
Chris Ray 26 4.12 5 4 58 0 59.0 54 27 9 25 54
LEAGUE AVERAGE RELIEVER ------ 4.34 -----------------------------------------------
Adam Loewen* 24 4.55 5 5 18 16 97.0 96 49 6 57 74
Greg Aquino 30 4.58 2 3 50 0 53.0 52 27 7 25 51
LEAGUE AVERAGE STARTER ------- 4.71 -----------------------------------------------
Jeremy Guthrie 29 4.84 6 8 28 23 145.0 159 78 21 50 89
Daniel Cabrera 27 4.85 11 13 31 31 180.0 176 97 20 108 164
Danys Baez 30 4.94 4 5 62 0 62.0 67 34 7 27 36
Fernando Cabrera 26 4.98 3 3 46 0 65.0 65 36 12 31 66
Rocky Cherry 28 5.00 2 3 54 1 72.0 80 40 10 31 46
Roberto Novoa 28 5.08 3 5 71 0 78.0 89 44 12 35 48
Randor Bierd 24 5.09 3 3 34 2 53.0 57 30 8 24 40
Kris Benson 33 5.20 6 9 21 21 128.0 149 74 21 40 61
Ryan Keefer 26 5.26 2 4 33 0 53.0 57 31 7 29 38
James Hoey 25 5.36 2 4 41 0 42.0 44 25 5 23 31
Dennis Sarfate 27 5.37 6 9 44 14 119.0 129 71 15 64 75
Troy Patton* 22 5.41 7 14 28 27 163.0 182 98 27 62 99
Matt Albers 25 5.81 6 12 31 25 155.0 182 100 23 74 83
Bob McCrory 26 5.86 1 3 36 0 43.0 46 28 5 34 30
Garrett Olson* 23 5.91 7 13 29 29 160.0 185 105 29 73 107
Hayden Penn 23 5.95 3 5 11 11 62.0 71 41 12 22 41
James Johnson 25 6.00 6 11 25 24 144.0 171 96 23 65 83
Jon Leicester 29 6.00 3 5 19 13 72.0 84 48 13 33 41
Brian Burres* 27 6.12 4 10 31 19 122.0 143 83 23 57 82
Radhames Liz 25 6.29 5 10 27 25 126.0 135 88 23 91 105
Chorye Spoone 22 6.33 5 13 27 26 138.0 158 97 20 103 72
Ryan Bukvich 30 6.40 1 4 44 0 45.0 51 32 9 26 28
Craig Anderson* 27 6.49 4 10 26 25 140.0 184 101 30 39 56
Brandon Erbe 20 6.69 4 11 28 28 117.0 138 87 22 83 73
Fredy Deza 25 8.15 2 10 41 10 106.0 144 96 33 53 52
* - Throws Left
Player Spotlight - Erik Bedard
ERA W L G GS INN H ER HR BB K ERA+
Optimistic (15%) 2.23 18 3 31 31 202 151 50 10 54 231 205
Mean 3.34 13 6 28 28 175 153 65 15 59 184 137
Pessimistic (15%) 4.63 8 8 23 23 136 138 70 18 55 135 99
Top Near-Age Comps: Hal Newhouser, Whitey Ford
Player Spotlight - Daniel Cabrera
ERA W L G GS INN H ER HR BB K ERA+
Optimistic (15%) 3.66 16 10 34 34 209 180 85 17 99 206 125
Mean 4.85 11 13 31 31 180 176 97 20 108 164 94
Pessimistic (15%) 6.11 6 13 25 25 140 153 95 22 100 122 75
Top Near-Age Comps: Matt Clement, Bobby Witt
Disclaimer: ZiPS projections are computer-based projections of performance.
Performances have not been allocated to predicted playing time in the majors -
many of the players listed above are unlikely to play in the majors at all in 2008.
ZiPS is projecting equivalent production - a .240 ZiPS projection may end up
being .280 in AAA or .300 in AA, for example. Whether or not a player will play
is one of many non-statistical factors one has to take into account when predicting
the future.
Players are listed with their most recent teams unless Dan has made a mistake.
This is very possible as a lot of minor-league signings are generally unreported in
the offseason.
ZiPS is projecting based on the AL having a 4.49 ERA and the NL having a 4.40 ERA.
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Thanks for the Orioles projections.
Just FYI -- I believe that the links to the previous projections for the Rockies, Indians, Reds, and the White Sox are not functioning properly. Click on them to see what I mean.
Trying to be helpful,
Roel
That has got to be about the broadest range of comps that you could possibly get.
-- MWE
I didn't see a projection for B.J. Surhoff. Are they really not going to bring him back for one more season?
Do you really have enough free time to randomly throw random numbers out to project every player? How do you make up these numbers? One day do you just wake up and say Vlad is gonna hit .285 with 22 homers this year? Just wondering how you get your random totally wrong numbers.
The Troll
pitchersteam didn't look so bad... (like our current shortstop being Luis Hernandez).Am I horribly missing something in here?
Of all the outfielders with a 2008 ZIPS Projection and of the age 25 or less, Markakis' closest statistical similarity scores belong to (keep in mind this does not take age or outfield position into consideration, only pure stats).
1) Billy Butler (KC)
2) C.Rasum (Stl)
3) H.Pence (Hou)
---------------------
For Reimold (same criteria)
1) A.Jones (Sea)
2) Kroeger (ChC)
3) Dorn (CIN)
---------------------
For Tripp (same criteria)
1) Bruce (Cin)
2) Maxwell (Was)
3) Kroeger (ChC)
vr, Xei
Yes. Team age. A 75 win team with a lot of young, exciting players is one thing. A 75 win team with an average age of 33 is depressing.
Indeed. Not all of the individual projections are awful, but of the players who do project to be decent, you've got one guy (Ray) who isn't playing in 2008, two guys (Bedard and Roberts) who should be playing somewhere else, a couple of middle-aged middle relievers, Loewen (coming off a serious injury), and Markakis. Then you've got some mediocrities at best in Millar, Gibbons, Huff, Hernandez.. all of whom are over 30. Maybe in 2009 or 2010, there'll be a bunch of hope. But for 2008, there are likely no bright spots except RF.
Seriously, does he have the worst projected line for a hitter?
Well, it's a small sample size...
If everything breaks right for the O's, Loewen, Bedard and Cabrera all reach their 15% optimistic projection, and they still finish 3rd. The odds of Bedard going 18-3 or better with an ERA under 2.25 are probably 200-1. Even if he meets his end of the deal, the bullpen and offence will probably saddle him with a 15-7 record.
5.41 22 Troy Patton*
5.81 25 Matt Albers
5.91 23 Garrett Olson*
5.95 23 Hayden Penn
6.00 25 James Johnson
6.12 27 Brian Burres*
6.29 25 Radhames Liz
Odds are that one of these guys hits an optimistic projection around league average. Of course, knowing the Orioles, they'll pick the wrong guy and someone will put up a 2.50 ERA in Norfolk.
The disclaimer and the FAQ should hopefully say it all!
The starting pitching is awful, inconsistent and injury-riddled (well, Loewen anyway).
Player A .276 .349 .405 125 417 56 115 23 2 9 55 43 83 1 2
Player B .287 .363 .437 145 579 93 166 39 3 14 80 70 87 36 7
Since you did the Astros before they acquired Miguel Tejada, would it be possible to get a 2008 Houston projection for Miggi?
Thanks, & keep up the good work!
WIth or without Bedard? With Bedard it looks about average. Without him it looks bad, but there are enough options there that I think it might not be horrible. I think the offense will be worse than the pitching, but if they trade Bedard and Roberts and fully commit to rebuilding, 2008 doesn't matter anyway.
On the other hand, there's just nothing there right now with the offense. Although that Reimold projection is better than I would have thought. If that's reasonable, he should probably be in Baltimore now.
(*) Obviously if they trade Bedard they're going need a grade A prospect to replace him; I'm not disputing that. But for the other four slots in the rotation, there are already lots of options. I don't think it makes sense to waste Bedard/Roberts on acquiring numerous pitching prospects, when they currently have more than they can even take a look at.
Yeah, they're closer than you'd think. Roberts' 10-point AVG advantage accounts for the gap in their rate stats, and the only other real difference is Roberts' speed.
Seems like the Cubs would be crazy to give up Marshall, Gallagher, and Cedeno (Cubs' best SS) for Roberts. Of course, if Roberts is the impetus to slide Soriano down in the batting order, it might be okay.
From what I read/hear from the Baltimore media, that package is a little light for MacPhail's liking and would have to include one of Pie or Colvin, hence the sitzkrieg.
Well, the 45-point difference in OPS understates the difference in their respective offensive contributions inasmuch as it ignores baserunning ability, where Roberts probably has something like a one-win edge.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that the Cubs should get Roberts, even if it takes Colvin (but not if it takes Pie). Beyond the fact that Robert is, all things considered, probably a 2-3 win upgrade over DeRosa, plugging him in at 2B gives the Cubs a solid backup plan for when (not if) Ramirez gets nicked up and if (not necessarily when) Lee, Soriano, or Roberts himself gets hurt. Otherwise, when Ramirez pulls a quad, you're looking at an infield of DeRosa-Theriot-Fontenot-Lee, and that's not going to cut it.
I think I'd trade any three (and possibly any four) of Marshall, Gallagher, Colvin, Theriot, Fontenot, Patterson, and Cedeno to get Roberts, and I actually like some of those guys.
DeRosa's not a bad player, but Roberts is a ~2 win upgrade. Also, having DeRosa around as a super-sub/insurance makes the Cubs a much better team.
Colvin's a college guy who people are irrationally excited about because he hit .299-16-81 between the FSL and the Southern league.
Well he had a K/BB of 101/15-
he's the second coming of Craig Brazell
If you can trade him for more than a year of Brian Roberts you should do it, hell if you can trade for one year of Brian Roberts and he's the difference maker between making the playoffs or not you should do it.
Awesome, Dan. Truly, you are a giant among men.
It's kind of hard to get a big head when people don't even know your name right.
Man, that's a weird sentence.
Right -- Derose could easily get ~500 ABs as a supersub, so Roberts ABs really replace weaker options off the bench. It's hard to understand why this deal hasn't been done, since Gallagher, Murton, and Patterson/Cedeno seems like a very fair deal for both sides. The orioles get some young talent, and the Cubs aren't going to miss any of those guys too much. I'd love to get Pie, but at the end of the day I'd do the deal without him.
That was only a very last build for the last couple weeks of spring training!
Oops, sorry.
And all this time I thought you were somehow connected to Eddie Ainsmith & Rube Schauer.
People in Baltimore always spell Miggi M-I-G-G-Y, too. Look at the man's custom wristbands people!
I guess you're saying that the team underperformed given the talent level but don't forget 1) the incompetence of Perlozzo, and to a lesser extent, Trembley, and 2) the team won something like 10 games after the 30-3 debacle on 8/22. Up to that point, the team was at least competitive. But injuries decimated the starting lineup. Guthrie, Bedard and Trachsel (traded) were gone which gave starts to Liz, Victor Zambrano and a whole bunch of other crap players that I can't remember. Burres turned back into Burres and Walker and Bradford had a bad August. Until late August, the team could get away with a spotty offense behind a strong rotation. Once 3/5 of the rotation was gone and Daniel Cabrera becomes your ace, things got ugly fast.
September Record:
2002: 4-24
2003: 10-16
2004: 18-10
2005: 10-18
2006: 10-18
2007: 10-19
So basically, except for 2004, the O's are a team that mails it in once Labor Day rolls around. Although luckily they've never quite humiliated themselves again like they did in '02.
Any relation to Roger?
Seconded, especially since I don't think Colvin's ever going to turn into anything interesting.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But that assumes that 1. there were folks worthy of being called up in September 2. Front office types would call them up 3. On-the-field management types would play them
Some or all of those assumptions were violated as often as...traffic laws on Eutaw Street.
Part of that is the unbalanced schedule.
Over the last 4 years, they've played 120 games after Labor Day.
-53 of those games were against the Red Sox or Yankees, and 66 of those games were against a team that went to the playoffs that year.
-Just 14 games against the Devil Rays, and 1 against the Royals.
The Orioles won 51 of those 120 games. Given the difficult schedule, that's actually not bad (42.5%) compared to their overall winning percentage over the last 4 years (45%).
Yes, well, there are a lot of teams that'd like a piece of Pie.
If the Cubs give him up in a Roberts deal, I think they're nuts, unless Roberts can play center.
The O's roster typically looks like AAA roster by September. Why? The O's are traditionally way out of September so the team is trying out a whole bunch of crap players by then to see if they're any good. Any good tradeable players are also gone by September. And, of course, injuries. 2005 was bad as well. Roberts was injuried and Palmiero gate pretty much poisoned the team. Some of the options the O's have used for depth have worked out (see Guthrie and Tike Redman filled in admireably for a couple of months, Gomez has been fine coming off the bench the last few years), but often times, AAA back up players have played like well, AAA back up players.
They are what? You don't think the O's are giving playing time to crappy players to see what they're worth in September?
Again, since when?
Believe or not, the O's have traded players with perceived value at the trading deadline. Not very often mind you but it has happened. See Traschel, Ponson, or Conine (the 2004 trade with FL that is) for example.
Trembley like to say rah rah lame stuff in order to give his players a psychological boost.
ABs:
Moore, 52
Mora, 86
Huff, 88
Millar, 97
What's utes?
Oh, Leicester, Liz, and Olson are part of the utes movement. They all received plenty of playing time. Not to mention Luis Hernandez received some playing time at SS to test him out for a starting role next year. And before these sorry players, we had Fio, Walter Young, and Val Majewski getting their late season cup of coffee. I'm not saying the O's go on full blown youth movement in September. But I do think minor league guys get a bit more play in September for various reasons which is partially responsible for their September record.
should read "big then I'm"...
oh and I apologize for sounding pissy, just trying to type quickly while doing other things.
Good grief, I didn't know that. I hated him before now I definitely don't want to ever see him again.
Liz and Olson each got a couple of starts and were quickly replaced with the likes of Zambrano (not the good one) and Santos. You got me with Hernandez, although if he is a young starter needing developmental time in the bigs than I'm a monkey's uncle's right testicle. And I only haveto '07, thanks. time at the moment to look up stats and confine my argument
Were Liz and Olson replaced? I can't remember and I certainly don't care enough to look it up. I thought our September rotation was Cabrera, Olson, Liz, Zambrano, Santos, and Leicester (my god, I just wrote and it still makes me shudder). I believe Guthrie made 1 (or 2?) September starts but that line up was the rotation for September. In any case, the Traschel trade and injuries pushed these sorry ass minor league guys into playing time and contributed to the O's September collapse. Replace some names and the same sort of thing happens to the O's at end of every season.
The Ponson trade is an example of that; it's also from 2003. Before that, you had a whole series of deals in 2000. But the Trachsel, Conine, and Javy Lopez deals were simply dumping players, not making deadline deals to rebuild.
6 Cabrera
5 Leicester
4 Burres
3 Santos
3 Guthrie
2 Zambrano
2 Liz
2 Olson
2 Birkins
(For the record, our September ERA was 6.89, although that includes relievers.)
Yes, that was actually painful. That's 29 games, and of those 29, 14 of those were not started by any players we were looking at (Leicester, Burres, Santos, Zambrano), and 9 others were by people already in the rotation (Guthrie, Cabrera).
That leaves 6 of 29 starts for 'prospects,' and I guess that depends how one views Birkins.
I certainly understand that the O's have given retrends playing time in September but trying out crappy prospects is also part of the September ritual starting with John Parrish and Rick Bauer then to Walter Young, Fio, Majewski, and now Luis Hernandez, Olson, and Liz.
But the Trachsel, Conine, and Javy Lopez deals were simply dumping players, not making deadline deals to rebuild.
Ok, not sure what we're arguing about anymore though. I just said Traschel and Niner (and Javy fits that bill which created more ABs for Gil) were players with perceived values who were traded which created openings for even more sorry players. Not sure how your point relates to that issue.
With the exception of Cabrera, Guthrie, and Burres, these are all guys pulled from the minor leagues (11 starts, or 38% of starts) strictly for September in order to cover for injuries or the Traschel trade (my original point).
None of Santos, Zambrano, Leicester, or Burres were being tried out to see if they were any good. (Neither were Guthrie or Cabrera, obviously.) That possibly leaves Birkins, and definitively leaves Liz and Olson. IOW, 4-6 of 29 starts actually match that description I challenged.
Young got 9 starts, actually hit pretty well, and disappeared. Majewski got three starts, then disappeared. Hernandez, as I pointed out above, got 7 starts. Fiorentino may be at the border of starting to get looked at. That's not what trying out prospects actually looks like. (What's sad is that it's been so long since the Orioles let a young player have a chance that that people think of this as giving players a tryout.)
Well, I think they're connected. An injury is followed by the Orioles calling up either a vet or one of their sorry prospects.
Young got 9 starts, actually hit pretty well, and disappeared. Majewski got three starts, then disappeared. Hernandez, as I pointed out above, got 7 starts. Fiorentino may be at the border of starting to get looked at. That's not what trying out prospects actually looks like.
Fair enough. Parrish and Bauer though certainly received their of playing time late in the season. Matos, Hairston, and Bechler are other O's (failed) prospects that most likely received playing time in September (too lazy to check up the split stats). Roberts was another failed prospect until 2005 who most likey received some playing time in September. And Matt Riley and Larry Bigbie were also young O's players given a chance (who obviously did a little better than the aforementioned players before sucking as well). I'm sure if I actually did a little research, I could come up with more names of sorry Orioles prospects. Oh, off the top of my head, John Stephens, Kohlmeier, and Josh Towers were all players the O's gave a chance. Except for a short period of time for Kohlmeier and Towers, they all sucked. The O's are willing to give their farm hands a chance, they just suck.
And I think the O's didn't give these guys many starts because they realized Young wasn't any good and Majewski has been injury prone.
None of their "prospects" "earned" a call-up, according to them. They seemed to view the roster expansion as merely a way to get bench depth, a pinch runner, a situational reliever, a spot starter. In my mind, they wasted great opportunities to bring folks up for developmental time or an extended tryout.
Like Knott. House. Moore. And that was just this year. Three guys you could kick the tires on for free, rather than watch the octogenarians get a little longer in the tooth.
Bigbie, Hairston/Roberts, Riley, Towers, Bauer, Parrish, Kohlmeier, and Matos were certainly give a fair chance (as a late season call up or otherwise) in ways beyond "bench depth, a pinch runner, a situational reliever, a spot starter." Unfortunately, these guys weren't any good thus they didn't stick. And lately, Hoey, Ray, Olson, Fahey and golden boy Nick were certainly given a fair chace in the big leagues. Nick and Ray will certainly stick, the others are undecided. I guess Young, Majewski (though that's probably attributable to injuries), John Stephens, Fio, and Werth weren't given extended looks, but these later guys weren't exactly great prospects. Every org favors some prospects over other, thus leading to differences in playing time.
Bigbie, Hairston/Roberts, Riley, Towers, Bauer, Parrish, Kohlmeier, Daniel Cabrera, and Matos: None of these guys were considered "sure thing" prospects back in the day. Actually, Riley probably generated the most attention from the minor league peeps. He was considered a very good prospect for awhile but certainly not a top notch, "sure thing" prospect. Same with Erik Bedard who too was given a fair chance to stick in the rotation and finally matured after a couple of seasons. And even now, Olson and Ray weren't considered great prospects but the O's gave them a chance. Golden Boy Nick obviously fits your description of a guaranteed sure thing prospect who was given a chance. But these other guys were considered solid prospects who were given a fair amount of playing time and sucked except for Roberts (wasn't jack cust given quite a number of bats too, in any case, his base running blunder sealed his fate). Pickering ate his way out of a chance.
Blocked for a year and half by a crappy older player. Given less than 900 ABs spread over 3 years where you do better than the old guy. And you get benched. That's the Oriole definition of a chance for a younger player.
Quit defending the insanity.
The O's have been quite incompetent over the years but not giving their farmhands a fair chance isn't one of their flaws. They need good prospects first. That's the bigger problem. Afterall, this is a farm system that was ranked the near bottom by most minor league pundits until the last couple of years. Bigbie, like the other players I've mentioned, were given plenty of chances. It sucks it didn't work out but I don't miss any of them. Out all of those players I mentioned, I'll take Rick Bauer back, but I really don't miss him either.
I'm sorry, but you have a very odd definition of giving a young player a chance.
They sucked! And they've sucked since they've left the O's!!! Do you expect the O's to keep giving sorry ass players ABs or IPs! Are you really defending John Parrish!
And besides, Parrish has been injured alot. And he was given plenty of chances this year. I never want to see him AGAIN. I literally hid underneath my coffee table everytime he came out of the bullpen. He sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks, and sucks some more. Good riddance.
John Maine?
Are you defending Danys Baez? Because the alternative to the Parrishes and Rileys and Bauers and Parrishes and such hasn't been Mariano Rivera. It's been Zambranos and Drabeks and Daals and DeJeans and such.
Yes, I expect the Os, if they're trying to build a winning team, to give "sorry ass" young players ABs or IPs. Because not all of them "suck," and when you don't play them, you have no way to tell.
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