Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Transaction Oracle > Discussion
Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Wednesday, October 31, 2007

2008 ZiPS Projections - New York Yankees

ZiPS sees no reason to believe that the Yankees won't be one of the top teams in baseball again in 2008. With one of the top young pitching troikas in Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy, I'm not holding my breath for the Orioles to make a grand charge at a playoff spot. Losing A-Rod is huge, but the Yankees have enough money to remedy that situation somewhat and the pitching may very well be better if the young starters don't blow out an arm-part.

Name                     P  Age   AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS 
Alex Rodriguez           3b  32  .305  .410  .583 159 590 127 180 30  1 44 151  93 132 16  3 
Jason Giambi*            dh  37  .241  .398  .482 110 340  58  82 13  0 23  77  75  86  0  0 
Bobby Abreu*             rf  34  .284  .391  .445 156 573 106 163 37  2 17 111  99 117 22  7 
Hideki Matsui*           lf  34  .290  .368  .476 142 544  95 158 33  4 20 106  67  71  2  2 
Jorge Posada#            c   36  .283  .380  .447 133 452  67 128 29  0 15  78  66  92  2  0 
Derek Jeter              ss  34  .308  .386  .435 151 616 106 190 33  3 13  83  66 106 15  5 
AVERAGE 1B/DH ---------- 1b ---- .279  .357  .475 ------------------------------------------
Robinson Cano*           2b  25  .308  .349  .488 149 584  87 180 41  5 18  98  34  73  3  4
AVERAGE LF ------------- lf ---- .277  .349  .456 ------------------------------------------
AVERAGE RF ------------- rf ---- .277  .346  .458 ------------------------------------------
AVERAGE 3B ------------- 3b ---- .274  .343  .449 ------------------------------------------
Wilson Betemit#          3b  26  .259  .335  .462 131 301  42  78 17  1 14  46  34  86  1  1 
Melky Cabrera#           cf  23  .286  .352  .419 159 580  83 166 29  6 12  89  59  65 13  4 
Doug Mientkiewicz*       1b  34  .272  .356  .412  82 250  33  68 15  1  6  35  29  41  0  0 
Johnny Damon*            cf  34  .279  .348  .408 130 519  93 145 25  3 12  67  54  73 17  4
AVERAGE CF ------------- cf ---- .272  .336  .425 ------------------------------------------
AVERAGE 2B ------------- 2b ---- .276  .337  .414 ------------------------------------------ 
Noah Hall                lf  31  .260  .345  .407 102 339  47  88 19  2  9  46  36  58  7  4 
Shelley Duncan           1b  28  .242  .311  .469 117 405  45  98 18  1 24  74  38 103  1  2
AVERAGE SS ------------- ss ---- .274  .329  .407 ------------------------------------------ 
Erubiel Durazo*          dh  34  .252  .347  .366  39 131  12  33  6  0  3  15  18  28  0  0 
AVERAGE C --------------- c ---- .260  .321  .403 ------------------------------------------
Jose Cruz Jr.#           rf  34  .236  .333  .376  91 271  38  64 15  1  7  29  39  69  3  1 
Brett Gardner*           cf  24  .269  .347  .331 113 417  73 112 15  4  1  27  49  87 28  9 
Andy Cannizaro           2b  29  .255  .320  .341 107 349  50  89 21  0  3  31  29  47  3  2 
Bronson Sardinha*        rf  25  .234  .299  .372 128 449  47 105 19  2 13  60  40 105  4  2 
Kevin Reese*             lf  30  .238  .310  .356 102 382  46  91 17  2  8  45  34  77  5  3 
Eric Duncan*             1b  23  .223  .290  .389 109 386  30  86 23  1 13  54  34  79  1  2 
Mike Kinkade             3b  35  .240  .307  .341  87 296  41  71 16  1  4  33  17  55  3  2 
Angel Chavez             3b  26  .251  .286  .376 123 439  48 110 20  1 11  62  19  85  5  2 
Alberto Gonzalez         ss  25  .261  .306  .340 125 418  51 109 19  4  2  40  22  47  5  4
Austin Jackson           cf  21  .240  .296  .342 123 450  56 108 21  2  7  38  32 127 18 10     
Juan Miranda*            1b  25  .204  .278  .354 117 407  34  83 24  2 11  71  33 112  1  1 
Jose Tabata              rf  19  .251  .302  .314  96 350  35  88 13  0  3  38  18  76  7  5 
Jose Molina              c   33  .242  .275  .340  71 194  17  47 10  0  3  23   8  44  2  0 
Mitchell Hilligoss*      3b  23  .248  .283  .316 113 424  49 105 18  1  3  35  19  62 15  6 
Jamal Strong             cf  29  .224  .305  .273  97 304  38  68  8  2  1  21  30  54  7  3 
Raul Chavez              c   35  .199  .232  .252  70 226  15  45  9  0  1  19   6  36  1  0 

Name               CThr 1b 2b 3b ss lf cf rf 
Rodriguez                     Av             
Giambi*                 Pr                   
Abreu*                                    Fr 
Matsui*                             Fr       
Posada#            Fr                        
Jeter                            Pr          
Cano*                      Vg                
Betemit#                   Fr Av Pr          
Cabrera#                            Vg Vg Vg 
Mientkiewicz*           Av                   
Damon*                  Av          Av Av    
Hall                                Vg    Fr 
Duncan                  Av          Av    Av 
Durazo*                 Pr                   
Cruz#                               Vg Pr Vg 
Gardner*                            Vg Vg    
Cannizaro                  Av Av Fr          
Sardinha*                           Fr    Fr 
Reese*                              Av Fr Fr 
Duncan*                 Av    Pr             
Kinkade                 Av    Pr    Fr    Fr 
Chavez                     Fr Av Fr          
Gonzalez                   Vg    Av          
Jackson                                Av
Miranda*                Fr                   
Tabata                                    Fr 
Molina             Av                        
Hilligoss*                    Av Fr          
Strong                              Av Fr Av 
Chavez             Vg   Fr    Fr             

* - Bats Left
# = Switch-Hitter

Player Spotlight - Melky Cabrera
Name               AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS
Optimistic (15%)  .306  .376  .464 162 591  96 181 34  7 15 108  66  59 17  3  
Mean              .286  .352  .419 159 580  83 166 29  6 12  89  59  65 13  4   
Pessimistic (15%) .260  .321  .358 117 427  52 111 18  3  6  50  38  53  6  4 

Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Bernie Williams, Coco Crisp

Name                     Age    ERA   W   L   G  GS     INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
Mariano Rivera            38   2.40   8   1  67   0    75.0   65   20   3   14   66 
Roger Clemens             45   3.59  10   6  25  25   148.0  144   59  13   43  101 
Chris Britton             25   3.69   4   2  56   0    78.0   74   32   9   22   67 
Philip Hughes             22   3.70  12   5  26  26   141.0  136   58  13   40  106 
Chien-Ming Wang           27   3.91  15   8  30  30   200.0  213   87  13   53   87 
Luis Vizcaino             33   3.93   6   4  72   0    71.0   67   31   6   33   55 
Kyle Farnsworth           32   4.02   3   1  69   0    65.0   60   29   9   27   64 
Andy Pettitte*            36   4.06  16   9  35  33   213.0  228   96  20   62  141 
LEAGUE AVERAGE RELIEVER ------ 4.21 -----------------------------------------------
Ian Kennedy               23   4.38   9   7  27  26   148.0  158   72  16   42   94 
Ron Villone*              38   4.43   3   2  62   0    67.0   65   33   7   35   53 
Joba Chamberlain          22   4.43   9   8  24  24   134.0  136   66  19   33  121 
Kevin Whelan              24   4.50   5   3  47   6    78.0   77   39   9   39   60 
LEAGUE AVERAGE STARTER ------- 4.57 -----------------------------------------------
T.J. Beam                 27   4.61   5   4  50   1    82.0   86   42  10   28   62 
Mike Mussina              39   4.74  11  10  30  29   171.0  195   90  21   41  112 
Edwar Ramirez             27   4.78   3   2  49   0    64.0   64   34  11   27   65 
Humberto Sanchez          25   4.87   8   7  19  18   109.0  117   59  14   45   80 
Carl Pavano               32   4.94   4   4  14  14    82.0   94   45  13   14   48 
Charlie Manning*          29   5.09   4   5  48   1    76.0   80   43  10   39   52 
Darrell Rasner            27   5.13   4   6  23  19   114.0  135   65  15   27   54 
Jose Veras                27   5.16   4   4  54   0    61.0   67   35   9   25   41 
Kei Igawa*                28   5.20   9  10  27  26   168.0  188   97  29   53  114 
Sean Henn*                27   5.30   5   6  32  12    90.0  101   53  11   43   55 
Brian Bruney              26   5.31   3   4  62   0    61.0   62   36   8   37   48 
Ross Ohlendorf            25   5.33   7   9  27  23   162.0  198   96  24   42   81 
Matt DeSalvo              27   5.39   7   9  26  25   137.0  148   82  16   81   82 
Ben Kozlowski*            27   5.54   5   6  35  15   117.0  136   72  20   44   66 
Jeffrey Marquez           23   5.62   9  12  25  25   141.0  175   88  22   37   63 
Alan Horne                25   5.63   7  10  28  28   147.0  170   92  23   62   97
Jeff Karstens             25   5.68   9  11  28  26   160.0  190  101  30   49   91 
Chase Wright*             25   5.98   7  11  32  23   149.0  177   99  27   69   69 
Steven Jackson            26   6.00   6  10  27  22   147.0  186   98  24   55   61 
Tyler Clippard            23   6.18   7  12  28  28   147.0  173  101  33   62   95 

* - Throws Left

Player Spotlight - Chien-Ming Wang
                    ERA   W   L   G  GS  INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
Optimistic (15%)   3.18  20   6  34  34  229  223   81  11   51  120 
Mean               3.91  15   8  30  30  200  213   87  13   53   87   
Pessimistic (15%)  4.67  10   9  25  25  162  186   84  14   51   63

Top Near-Age Comps: Danny Cox, Dock Ellis

Disclaimer:  ZiPS projections are computer-based projections of performance.  
Performances have not been allocated to predicted playing time in the majors - 
many of the players listed above are unlikely to play in the majors at all in 2008.  
ZiPS is projecting equivalent production - a .240 ZiPS projection may end up 
being .280 in AAA or .300 in AA, for example.  Whether or not a player will play 
is one of many non-statistical factors one has to take into account when predicting 
the future.

Players are listed with their most recent teams unless Dan has made a mistake.  
This is very possible as a lot of minor-league signings are generally unreported in
the offseason.  

ZiPS is projecting based on the AL having a 4.49 ERA and the NL having a 4.40 ERA.
Nationals Projections
Blue Jays Projections
Rangers Projections
Rays Projections
Cardinals Projections
Mariners Projections
Giants Projections
Padres Projections
Pirates Projections
Phillies Projections
A's Projections
Yankees Projections
Dan Szymborski Posted: October 31, 2007 at 01:18 PM | 122 comment(s)
  Related News: NY YankeesZIPS

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 2 pages  1 2
   101. JCPHIKABDB, or...NJASDJDH Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:01 PM (#2602592)
292/343/477, specifically... more than half of the plate appearances at AA, the rest at AAA... and this projects to him doing 314/346/489 in the majors... how, exactly? Now of course, if you wanna argue that his minor league stats don't matter at this point, then that's a different story, and IMO, an exceedingly sensible one. But I am really not seeing where you're getting it from that his minor league stats predicted he'd be this type of MLB player. I don't know how to phrase this any other way, but, the major leagues are a higher level of competition than AA or AAA.

I was too lazy to add up the numbers, so thanks for that, actually. The other factors I'm considering in reaching my conclusion are that 1.) he was playing in pitcher's parks in pitcher's leagues 2.) those numbers are dragged down by an out of line, for him, BABIP during his first taste of AAA and 3.) He hit about the same or a little better in the DWL during that stretch as well. Yes, the major leagues are a higher level of competition, but I expect players to also get better as they make the jump to the major leagues and that in addition to everything I said before makes me think what Cano is doing isn't completely out of line with his minor league performance. Here's what I said in April '05 before he lit the world on fire at AAA:

...[Cano[ looks like a future .285-.300 big league hitter...I see Cano’s home run ceiling as 25 with about 15-20 as the expected seasonal total...prime years in the .290/.350/.470 (AVG/OBP/SLG) range...
   102. Mike Green Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:11 PM (#2602615)
"When the ball is hit in play Jeter is usually the last Yankee IF to react. Placing him at 3B could actually put his life at risk."

...and your point is? :)

Actually, he's got the arm to play a deep third base. His weakest point defensively as a shortstop is the step and a dive or a step and a wave on the ball up the middle. That is a huge, huge deal. A step and a dive for a third baseman on the ball in the hole is not great, but much better than it is for a shortstop (because it happens less often and there is less ground to cover).
   103. Loren F. Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:15 PM (#2602622)
Jeter would be an awful 3B. But that's moot, because he's staying at SS at least through 2010, which is the extent of his current contract. If Honus Wagner came back from the dead next month, got himself into his 26-year-old shape, and signed with the Yankees, he'd be playing 3B of OF.

So the 3B options for the Yankees are:
A-Rod: Unlikely but not impossible at this point.
Betemit: So hard to project. If he put up his ZiPS numbers and had a decent glove, he'd be satisfactory. But I'm not sure how confident I am he'll make his ZiPS numbers, as that projected SLG looks 20 points too high to start.
Lowell: I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees offered him four years while Boston offered him three years, although odds are NYY would regret the final two years of that deal. And since it's not my money, I don't care that New York would likely pay him .324/.378/.501 money for .275/.340/.460 production or something in that neighborhood.

Right now, 3B looks like the biggest question mark (followed closely by just how well the Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy young guns will actually perform).
   104. new old guy Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:15 PM (#2602623)
Ensberg and no idea what to do about 1B.

Mike Lamb.
   105. JCPHIKABDB, or...NJASDJDH Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:19 PM (#2602627)
His weakest point defensively as a shortstop is the step and a dive or a step and a wave on the ball up the middle. That is a huge, huge deal. A step and a dive for a third baseman on the ball in the hole is not great, but much better than it is for a shortstop (because it happens less often and there is less ground to cover).

And this would be exasperated by the fact that he has less time now before he can register where the ball is going and take that first step before diving. So, no, I don't think he would be any more effective at 3B.
   106. aleskel Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:25 PM (#2602639)
exasperated

YOU would be exasperated. The situation would be exacerbated
   107. new old guy Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:26 PM (#2602642)
Ensberg and no idea what to do about 1B.

Mike Lamb.


I should add: if Betemit can't hack it as a near-everyday player, then he goes back to the utility role, Lamb and Ensberg share 3B, and you try to find another lefthanded hitting 1B.
   108. JCPHIKABDB, or...NJASDJDH Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:28 PM (#2602647)
aleskel, thanks.
   109. AROM Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:35 PM (#2602657)
Over the last 2 years Betemit has one full season's worth of MLB playing time.

He's hit 250/329/463, 613 AB, 35 2b, 32 HR, 74 BB. Also a worrisome 184 strikeouts. That's decent production and he should get better if they give him the job, where Lowell is virtually guaranteed to get worse, as he's old and never hit .300 before let alone .320.
   110. HowardMegdal Posted: November 01, 2007 at 12:52 PM (#2602679)
I do think he's capable of that line you posted (OBP is a little high, I'll be surprised if he ever puts up a .390 OBP) and Zips seems to agree that he has the potential at least to put up an MVP type season.

Really? He already hit .342 in a season, he's showing improved patience, he had a .396 OBP in the second half this past season!


I would be giddy if Melky put up that line.


You don't think he approaches that?

As for Betemit, I think it is reasonable to expect league average production, with a decent chance he tops that. I think, considering you already have him and he's entering his age-26 season, that makes him a much better 2008 option than Mike Lowell, whose luck-based BA is almost certain to come down, making him more of a league-average offensive 3B even with no decline in skill.
   111. AROM Posted: November 01, 2007 at 01:00 PM (#2602696)
I'll take Lowell for 2008. For 2009 and beyond I'd have to say Betemit. Consider their relative cost - both in contract and in surrendering draft picks to your hated rivals - and I think its a no-brainer.
   112. JCPHIKABDB, or...NJASDJDH Posted: November 01, 2007 at 01:00 PM (#2602697)
You don't think he approaches that?

He did that, or something close to it, for a while this season, but he was terrible down the stretch, so...I think people are hedging their bets. I would too. That looks like a reach for him.
   113. JCPHIKABDB, or...NJASDJDH Posted: November 02, 2007 at 07:11 AM (#2603176)
Thanks, Dan.
   114. RB in NYC (Now with an Plane Tickets!) Posted: November 02, 2007 at 07:20 AM (#2603179)
He did that, or something close to it, for a while this season, but he was terrible down the stretch, so...I think people are hedging their bets. I would too. That looks like a reach for him.
Melky had a bizarre season:

April: .200/.238/.213 (.451)
May-August: .314/.369/.473 (.842)
September: .180/.236/.220 (.456)

Basically he was total garbage at the beginning and end of the season but in the middle was one of the best CF in the league. I really have no idea what--if anything--that means but it sure is weird.
   115. JCPHIKABDB, or...NJASDJDH Posted: November 02, 2007 at 07:36 AM (#2603182)
One thing I do know is that I would like to see Melky stop bunting all the time.
   116. zoobird Posted: November 02, 2007 at 07:38 AM (#2603183)
Dan, one way that I think makes sens to show confidence would be OPS gap, betweem optimistic and pessimistic projection.


By percentage, or just 'raw' difference?

Another way might be expected likelihood of actual OPS being within X% (I'd suggest 5%) of projection.
   117. Walt Davis Posted: November 02, 2007 at 05:31 PM (#2603992)
OPS gap would work. Or, if the interval isn't necessarily symmetric, a + and - number for optimistic/pessimistic OPS. Or just 3 OPS numbers. Or potentially use something like RC/27 to get us away from OPS. With pitchers, I don't know if we have anything really other than ERA with the same sort of display options as OPS.

I suppose the big part of the challenge is how to present such that uncertainty due to small sample size is distinguished from uncertainty due to whatever other factors influence that range. This is especially true on the pitching side where reliever performance bounces all over the place because they're pitching just 60-70 IP a year. Maybe simply don't present it for players where the sample sizes are too small to have much confidence.
   118. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: November 04, 2007 at 08:40 PM (#2605138)
Request for Scott Patterson, if you don't mind, Dan.
   119. Cutter Posted: November 05, 2007 at 01:23 AM (#2605250)
Basically he was total garbage at the beginning and end of the season but in the middle was one of the best CF in the league. I really have no idea what--if anything--that means but it sure is weird.

Melky play well in warm weather.
   120. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: November 05, 2007 at 01:43 AM (#2605254)

Melky play well in warm weather.


New York warm in September. Melky like.
   121. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 03, 2007 at 10:56 PM (#2633146)
Moot now, but - no Andy Phillips?
   122. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: December 03, 2007 at 11:05 PM (#2633156)
I'll take the over on Joba, Jeter, and Posada. I'll take the under on Melky.
   123. RollingWave Posted: January 06, 2008 at 03:16 AM (#2661557)
Nice projection, that lineup should be ridiculas again in 08. particularly if they manage to squeeze anything out of Giambi and the 1B spot.

On Cano. I think it's fair to say that he isn't going to get significantly better. in the sense that nothing is going to suddenly comeup that's completely out of line of what he is now. he's not going to suddenly start swiping bags (we all know that) he's not going to become some onbase machine and he's not going to hit 40 bombs.

what he will (hopefully) do though

1. continue to hit for high average and simply rack up hits
2. hopefully having some of his double / triples turn into HRs
3. have minor improvements in walk rate thx to experience and rising slugging.

The Jeter comp is pretty fair. one has to realize that Cano's current number stack up extremely well against EVERY modern hall of fame 2B at the similar age season ..count or rate (only Almoar is significantly ahead of him in terms of hits at the same age. and Alomar reached the majors as a teenager, that's right, he's hit pace is similar / better than Molitor / Morgan / Sandberg / Carew .. let alone late starters Biggio / Kent ), it's almost impossible to be better than he is now as a 24 year old 2B.
Page 2 of 2 pages  1 2

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

My Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Vivid Seats is a sports ticket broker, concert ticket broker and theater ticket broker offering the best baseball tickets like Yankees tickets, Cubs tickets, and Red Sox tickets, as well as Police reunion tour tickets and Jersey Boys tickets.

Ticket Nest sells Braves, Cubs, Padres, Indians, Marlins, Nuts, Pirates, Rangers, Patriots, Royals, Stars, Tides, Tigers, Twins, Phillies, Wings, Mets, Yankees, Angels, Dodgers tickets, and Dragons tickets.

Buy Cheap MLB Tickets

Concerts Theatre NFL Angels Dodgers MLB Celtics Theater NBA Tickets Venues NHL Lakers Tickets NFL Yankees NHL Phillies NBA Wicked Marlins MLB Concerts Cubs Mets Red Sox Wicked WWE Red Sox Mets Yankees Dodgers

Page rendered in 0.5255 seconds
61 querie(s) executed