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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Monday, October 08, 2007

2008 ZiPS Projections - St. Louis Cardinals

While I have nothing against the Cardinals and Cards fans may hate me for this, but the 2007 Cardinals have to be one of the absolute worst 78-84 teams I've seen. No Carpenter (with the exception of one poor start), only two regulars with OPS+s above 100, feel-good story turning feel-bad story after media piled on Ankiel, Edmonds and Rolen disappointing, Aaron Miles getting playing time, and the Cards picking up every starting pitcher that was released by another team this season, should add up to something a lot less than 78 wins. Even Pujols was ever-so-slightly less-Godlike than usual.

While ZiPS doesn't really like the starting pitching, it does at least have a couple of bright spots, relatively speaking. A 4.65 ERA from Reyes isn't exactly world-beating, but it would be a big boost to 2008 team. Jaime Garcia solidifies his claim as the only Cards starting pitcher prospect to be anywhere near ready and Colby Rasmus hit 271/381/551 for Springfield. The Cards don't have a lot of offensive depth in the infield, unfortunately, and it showed when Kennedy turned out not be a good option - Aaron Miles may be scrappy, but he's not very good and Brendan Ryan is unlikely to repeat his play in the majors. It complicates matters that So-So was a decent backup and Skip Schumaker played like a major league as there's a good shot that better players will be behind them in the depth chart again next year.


Name                     P  Age   AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS 
Albert Pujols            1b  28  .325  .432  .593 150 545 109 177 33  1 37 108 100  54  6  3 
AVERAGE 1B ------------- 1b ---- .277  .356  .459 ------------------------------------------
Chris Duncan*            lf  27  .262  .346  .472 133 409  59 107 21  1 21  66  51 112  2  2 
Ryan Ludwick             rf  29  .262  .330  .476 130 412  48 108 26  1 20  64  37 108  2  3
AVERAGE LF ------------- lf ---- .276  .348  .440 ------------------------------------------
AVERAGE RF ------------- rf ---- .275  .345  .442 ------------------------------------------ 
John Rodriguez*          lf  30  .259  .340  .442 101 274  39  71 16  2 10  42  29  73  2  0 
Jim Edmonds*             cf  38  .247  .344  .440 110 352  50  87 18  1 16  57  52  92  2  1
AVERAGE 3B ------------- 3b ---- .272  .342  .437 ------------------------------------------ 
Taggert Bozied           1b  28  .251  .329  .431 104 346  31  87 18  1 14  50  35  69  1  0 
Russell Branyan*         3b  32  .220  .335  .424  77 191  26  42  9  0 10  26  32  67  1  0 
Scott Spiezio#           3b  35  .253  .347  .392  77 194  27  49 10  1  5  27  24  41  0  0
AVERAGE CF ------------- cf ---- .270  .334  .414 ------------------------------------------ 
Colby Rasmus*            cf  21  .245  .329  .419 121 425  46 104 23  3 15  50  46  90 14  5 
AVERAGE 2B ------------- 2b ---- .275  .333  .403 ------------------------------------------
Scott Rolen              3b  33  .255  .331  .397 106 380  56  97 25  1  9  55  40  52  3  2
AVERAGE SS ------------- ss ---- .273  .328  .398 ------------------------------------------ 
Brian Barden             3b  26  .265  .310  .430 132 486  67 129 32  3 14  62  28 109  4  3 
David Eckstein           ss  33  .289  .348  .356 125 491  66 142 20  2  3  35  34  33  7  4 
Juan Encarnacion         rf  32  .264  .313  .407 106 386  48 102 18  2 11  54  24  66  3  2 
AVERAGE C --------------  c ---- .258  .319  .391 ------------------------------------------
Rick Ankiel*             rf  28  .241  .285  .458 122 448  46 108 18  2 25  77  27 105  2  2 
Skip Schumaker*          rf  28  .272  .314  .370 132 397  45 108 20  2  5  33  23  57  4  3 
Brendan Ryan             ss  26  .265  .315  .351 117 396  61 105 18  2  4  22  27  44 13  3 
Joe Mather               rf  25  .227  .289  .394 117 406  40  92 21  1 15  46  28  81  4  0 
So Taguchi               cf  38  .263  .318  .336 122 304  39  80 14  1  2  30  21  44  8  2 
Bryan Anderson*          c   21  .258  .307  .347 111 380  38  98 17  1  5  41  26  73  0  2 
Aaron Miles#             2b  31  .268  .311  .334 119 377  44 101 15  2  2  29  23  43  2  1 
Yadier Molina            c   25  .245  .307  .349 124 404  34  99 21  0  7  51  33  40  1  2 
Preston Wilson           lf  33  .242  .303  .342  78 281  28  68 13  0  5  30  22  70  3  1 
Jarrett Hoffpauir        2b  25  .246  .318  .332 118 382  35  94 19  1  4  35  38  38  4  4 
Adam Kennedy*            2b  32  .251  .310  .332 110 355  35  89 19  2  2  32  27  49 12  4 
Miguel Cairo             2b  34  .253  .311  .325  71 194  22  49 11  0  1  16  14  23  7  1 
Mark Hamilton*           1b  23  .228  .279  .382 116 403  33  92 20  0 14  62  27  92  2  0 
Nick Stavinoha           rf  26  .251  .289  .363 114 402  33 101 16  1  9  40  20  62  2  1 
Cody Haerther*           lf  24  .239  .286  .365  94 310  28  74 19  1  6  31  20  44  1  2 
Danny Ardoin             c   33  .220  .297  .332  88 232  29  51 14  0  4  19  21  52  2  0 
Tyler Greene             ss  24  .225  .288  .337 100 347  37  78 13  1  8  30  23 101 14  3 
Gary Bennett             c   36  .230  .284  .311  49 135  10  31  5  0  2  16  10  22  0  1 
Travis Hanson*           3b  27  .211  .261  .305 110 383  36  81 13  1  7  33  24  75  0  1 
Ryan Christianson        c   27  .194  .256  .304  83 273  22  53  9  0  7  25  22  78  3  1 
Kelly Stinnett           c   38  .216  .264  .288  58 139  10  30  4  0  2   9   8  41  0  0 

* - Bats Left
# = Switch-Hitter

Player Spotlight - Albert Pujols
Name               AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS
Optimistic (15%)  .354  .466  .684 156 567 132 201 42  2 47 143 114  48  8  2  
Mean              .325  .432  .593 150 545 109 177 33  1 37 108 100  54  6  3     
Pessimistic (15%) .296  .397  .521 122 443  77 131 25  0 25  72  74  49  3  4 

Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Manny Ramirez, Hal Trosky

Name               CThr 1b 2b 3b ss lf cf rf 
Pujols                  Ex                   
Duncan*                 Av          Fr    Fr 
Ludwick                             Av Fr Av 
Rodriguez*                          Fr    Fr 
Edmonds*                Av             Av    
Bozied                  Fr          Pr    Pr 
Branyan*                Av    Fr    Fr       
Spiezio#                Av Fr Av    Av    Av 
Rasmus*                                Av    
Rolen                         Ex             
Barden                  Av Pr Vg Pr          
Eckstein                         Av          
Encarnacion                         Av    Av 
Ankiel*                             Av Pr Av 
Schumaker*                          Av Av Av 
Ryan                       Av Av Av          
Mather                                 Fr Vg 
Taguchi                             Av Fr Av 
Anderson*          Fr                        
Miles#                     Av Av Pr          
Molina             Ex                        
Wilson                              Pr Pr Pr
Hoffpauir                  Av Av Fr           
Kennedy*                   Av    Fr          
Cairo                   Av Av Fr Pr Av    Av 
Hamilton*               Fr                   
Stavinoha                           Fr    Fr 
Haerther*                           Fr       
Ardoin             Av   Fr                   
Greene                           Av          
Bennett            Pr                        
Hanson*                    Pr Fr             
Christianson       Av               Fr       
Stinnett           Fr                        

Name                     Age    ERA   W   L   G  GS     INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
Russ Springer             39   2.95   5   2  68   0    58.0   47   19   5   19   53 
Troy Percival             38   3.14   3   1  41   0    43.0   36   15   5   16   35 
Jason Isringhausen        35   3.54   4   2  63   0    61.0   51   24   7   34   52 
Chris Carpenter           33   3.56  12   8  27  27   187.0  183   74  18   38  145 
LEAGUE AVERAGE RELIEVER ------ 4.03 -----------------------------------------------
Ryan Franklin             35   4.03   5   5  66   0    76.0   79   34   9   19   41
Randy Flores*             32   4.09   2   1  68   0    55.0   58   25   4   17   48 
Adam Wainwright           26   4.13  13  11  31  31   194.0  202   89  20   57  131 
Tyler Johnson*            27   4.33   2   1  66   0    54.0   51   26   7   23   44 
Josh Kinney               29   4.39   3   4  66   0    80.0   78   39   8   42   64 
LEAGUE AVERAGE STARTER ------- 4.41 -----------------------------------------------
Jason Motte               26   4.42   3   3  47   0    55.0   58   27   7   17   38 
Todd Wellemeyer           29   4.44   3   3  36   9    79.0   77   39   9   43   59 
Brian Falkenborg          30   4.50   4   5  61   0    70.0   75   35   7   25   49 
Anthony Reyes             26   4.65   8   9  27  26   149.0  153   77  23   45  106 
Jaime Garcia*             21   4.65   8   9  24  24   147.0  163   76  16   45   74 
Braden Looper             33   4.84   9  11  28  28   160.0  173   86  19   54   83 
Andy Cavazos              27   4.97   4   5  64   0    76.0   80   42  10   33   53 
Mike Venafro*             34   4.98   1   2  53   0    47.0   54   26   4   21   21 
Kelvin Jimenez            27   5.03   3   5  57   0    77.0   88   43   6   27   42 
Mark Mulder*              30   5.06   7  11  24  24   144.0  162   81  18   59   79 
Brad Thompson             26   5.15   4   7  48  12   117.0  135   67  20   38   55 
Kip Wells                 31   5.27   9  13  30  25   152.0  163   89  20   84  105 
Mark Worrell              25   5.27   3   4  60   0    70.0   76   41  14   26   50 
Chris Perez               22   5.28   2   2  59   0    58.0   55   34   9   37   53 
Joel Pineiro              29   5.28   6  10  36  22   150.0  171   88  20   53   80 
Chris Narveson*           26   5.36   4   7  20  19    99.0  108   59  17   44   57 
Matt Scherer              25   5.42   4   7  60   0    83.0   95   50  15   27   58 
Mitchell Boggs            24   5.49   7  11  28  28   164.0  196  100  22   61   81 
Eric Haberer*             25   5.55   8  13  29  27   167.0  198  103  20   73   59 
Mike Maroth*              30   5.59   6  11  28  23   145.0  171   90  25   52   79 
Blake Hawksworth          25   5.72   6  11  26  26   148.0  179   94  24   48   70 
Stuart Pomeranz           23   5.76   5  10  23  23   136.0  163   87  23   46   61 
Troy Cate*                27   5.96   3   5  47   7    80.0   92   53  14   35   52 
Adam Ottavino             22   5.98   6  13  27  27   134.0  160   89  24   56   79 
Dennis Dove               26   6.05   3   5  49   0    61.0   69   41  13   23   39 

* - Throws Left

Player Spotlight - Anthony Reyes
                    ERA   W   L   G  GS  INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
Optimistic (15%)   3.75  12   8  31  30  173  162   72  21   44  133
Mean               4.65   8   9  27  26  149  153   77  23   45  106
Pessimistic (15%)  5.82   5   9  23  22  119  135   77  24   46   77

Top Near-Age Comps:  Adam Eaton, Paul Moskau

Disclaimer:  ZiPS projections are computer-based projections of performance.  
Performances have not been allocated to predicted playing time in the majors - 
many of the players listed above are unlikely to play in the majors at all in 2008.  
ZiPS is projecting equivalent production - a .240 ZiPS projection may end up 
being .280 in AAA or .300 in AA, for example.  Whether or not a player will play 
is one of many non-statistical factors one has to take into account when predicting 
the future.

Players are listed with their most recent teams unless Dan has made a mistake.  
This is very possible as a lot of minor-league signings are generally unreported in
the offseason.  

ZiPS is projecting based on the AL having a 4.49 ERA and the NL having a 4.40 ERA.
Dan Szymborski Posted: October 08, 2007 at 11:41 PM | 34 comment(s)
  Related News: St LouisZIPS

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Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. BaseballDIY Posted: October 09, 2007 at 12:32 AM (#2569429)
Looks like someone forgot to do pitcher projections for Miles and Spiezio.
   2. philly Posted: October 09, 2007 at 12:32 AM (#2569431)
Jaime Garcia solidifies his claim as the only Cards starting pitcher prospect to be anywhere near ready


Garcia didn't pitch the last month or so of the season. I never heard exactly why, but presumably some kind of arm ailment.
   3. So Taguchi is My Sensei Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:06 AM (#2569471)
jaime garcia had issues with his elbow...yeah. not good.
   4. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:18 AM (#2569482)
I had been under the impression it wasn't serious. It actually looks quite serious! Too bad.
   5. The Mets make Russlan sad Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:34 AM (#2569493)
Yikes, that's an ugly projection for Rolen. Molina will do better than that, IMO.
   6. Shock Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:41 AM (#2569499)
Heh...I like Ankiel with 25 dingers and still worse than an average catcher.

And talk about a nose-dive: ZiPS had Scott Rolen projected at .287/.371/.509 entering 2007.
   7. St.Philly Posted: October 09, 2007 at 02:00 AM (#2569508)
So, ZiPS project that Rolen will play hurt again?
   8. myst333 Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:37 AM (#2569546)
Thats depressing. Based on this and the 2007 results I wonder if Wellemeyer should end up in the rotation?
   9. So Taguchi is My Sensei Posted: October 09, 2007 at 10:14 AM (#2569672)
had been under the impression it wasn't serious. It actually looks quite serious! Too bad.


they are saying it's going to be ok, but they said the same thing about chris carpenter.
   10. AROM wants you off his lawn Posted: October 09, 2007 at 10:33 AM (#2569686)
So, ZiPS project that Rolen will play hurt again?


Whens the last time he played without being hurt? Looks like 2004.
   11. With 17th Pick, From LA, 1k5v3L KcoLLoP Posted: October 09, 2007 at 11:09 AM (#2569725)
I'd love to see a player spotlight for Rick Ankiel.
   12. Cabbage Posted: October 09, 2007 at 11:14 AM (#2569728)
Check out Pujols' BB:K at 'optimistic'.
   13. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 09, 2007 at 11:22 AM (#2569738)
"they are saying it's going to be ok, but they said the same thing about chris carpenter."

And he probably will be... in a year and a half.
   14. greenback345397SM6 Posted: October 09, 2007 at 11:42 AM (#2569760)
A 4.65 ERA from Reyes isn't exactly world-beating, but it would be a big boost to 2008 team.


Reyes isn't putting up an ERA south of 5 for the Cardinals, DD/TLR or not.

You have to watch Aaron Miles everyday to appreciate how untalented he is.
   15. phredbird Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:34 PM (#2569925)
i remember some of us card fanboys were saying they thought the projections had edmonds too low last year. well ... i'm not making that mistake this year!

we're in trouble.
   16. So Taguchi is My Sensei Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:42 PM (#2569939)
dan, if you read this i was wondering if you could do the ZiPS on Jason Motte, Joe Mather and Jarrett Hoffpauir. Thanks
   17. So Taguchi is My Sensei Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:45 PM (#2569945)
Er, reason I ask is all are headed to the Arizona Fall League and are probably going to be added to the 40 man. Just thought I should clarify.
   18. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 09, 2007 at 03:28 PM (#2570110)
OK, those three players are now included in the above projections (and therefore, also on the DMB disk). For those that don't remember, I'll generally project anyone, so long as the player's played full-season ball (with exceptions for players like Weeks, who I actually had to project with little minor league experience, due to quickness of promotion). I also don't like going over 80 players for a team, simply because I like using DMB to organize all this and DMB won't let you have more than 80 players assigned to an organization.
   19. HowardMegdal Posted: October 09, 2007 at 03:33 PM (#2570118)
And when can we expect the 2008 DMB disk? These are great, and I will be feeling my baseball withdrawal symptoms soon- and by soon, I mean last Monday.
   20. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 09, 2007 at 03:45 PM (#2570135)
And when can we expect the 2008 DMB disk? These are great, and I will be feeling my baseball withdrawal symptoms soon- and by soon, I mean last Monday.

I'll release it more periodically, even if certain things I want to do aren't done, just so people can have access to it.
   21. BaseballDIY Posted: October 09, 2007 at 05:50 PM (#2570247)
At some point early on when Albert was really struggling, he was striking out a ton (relatively speaking). I just went and looked; he finished with a "whopping" 58 K's and led the majors in BB/K.

On a side note, I saw Anthony Reyes and Brad Thompson at a Chipotle in Clayton this weekend ...
   22. Kyle S Posted: October 09, 2007 at 06:32 PM (#2570264)
I thought Ankiel was a good outfielder but it looks like you don't think he is, Dan. What do cards fans think? What about UZR?
   23. greenback345397SM6 Posted: October 09, 2007 at 06:44 PM (#2570274)
Ankiel was erratic in the outfield. Decent athlete, although not as good as claimed, and a fantastic arm (duh), but would take some odd routes and looked lost at times.

Dan, if you're taking requests, could you exclude Maroth and Wells?
   24. phredbird Posted: October 10, 2007 at 01:19 PM (#2570878)
considering he hasn't been an outfielder all that long, i imagine he's got some things to learn. i'd say he's already better than duncan, though i guess that's not saying much.
what worries me more is his swing. i didn't see much of him, but what i saw had me wondering. it isn't very pretty, and it sure looks like the pitchers had him figured out toward the end of the season.
   25. Russ Posted: October 10, 2007 at 01:52 PM (#2570929)
The Cardinals look like the Pirates - LaRoche + Pujols for next year, if you think

Carpenter + Wainwright ~= Snell + Gorzellany

The rest of the rotations are probably a wash, as are the bullpens, and most of the rest of the respective starting lineups.

I think this is more like bad news for the Cards than good news for the Pirates.
   26. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 10, 2007 at 02:11 PM (#2570959)
"Dan, if you're taking requests, could you exclude Maroth and Wells?"

I laughed.
   27. Russ Posted: October 10, 2007 at 09:46 PM (#2571405)
"Dan, if you're taking requests, could you exclude Maroth and Wells?"

I laughed.


Everyone who thought that Josh Fogg would turn out to be the best pitcher involved the Todd Ritchie deal 6 years later, please raise your hand.
   28. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: October 10, 2007 at 10:34 PM (#2571429)
So what's the story with Rolen's health prospects?
   29. Russ Posted: October 11, 2007 at 02:05 AM (#2571515)
So what's the story with Rolen's health prospects?


Partly cloudy (vision), 40% chance of (falling in the) showers.
   30. More Indecisive than Lonnie Smith on 2nd... Posted: October 11, 2007 at 10:45 PM (#2572387)
Wow. The only way Pujols could ever reach the mythic "optimistic" projection is if they found a couple of .400 OBP guys to put 1-2, because he's not touching 120-130 RBI again until they get rid of the crud that Jocketty/LaRussa had found to put in front of him. Poor guy...no, wait, I would make some kind of sympathetic statement, but that #### for brains team has the same number of WS wins as the Braves. And with a worse team than they ever fielded. So while he might soldier on until his next big payday, at least he has his ring...
   31. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: October 16, 2007 at 12:18 PM (#2579438)
Everyone who thought that Josh Fogg would turn out to be the best pitcher involved the Todd Ritchie deal 6 years later, please raise your hand.

Ooh, ooh, ooh...ooh-ooh...although not as good as I thought he'd be.
   32. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: October 16, 2007 at 12:21 PM (#2579445)
Joel Pineiro 29 5.28 6 10 36 22 150.0 171 88 20 53 80

Holy crap, the Cards better hope LaRussa doesn't leave and take Dave Duncan with him.
   33. AlexIsADirtySanchez Posted: October 30, 2007 at 10:20 PM (#2600894)
Was there any larger disparity in starting pitcher projections than Reyes had last year? It kept me on Anthony's bandwagon until September (and maybe still a little when no one can hear me).

And, Wow, in retrospect that reliever-starter conversion toy you developed came pretty close on Thompson and Loop! I'm still impressed with that toy.
   34. greenback345397SM6 Posted: December 01, 2007 at 10:32 AM (#2630673)
Dan, I don't know if you plan on giving Cubs fans something to cackle about with the Izturis signing, so I'll ask here. Could you project Jose Martinez, the one who played at Palm Beach and Springfield this year and was born 1/24/86? I'm guessing it's not pretty, but I need another front on the war against the Middle Infield Legion of Extreme Suckitude (MILES).
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