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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Tuesday, October 07, 2008

2009 ZiPS Projections - Oakland Athletics

Make no mistake about it, the A's aren't doing a quick rebuild. There's little chance of competing with the Angels in 2009 unless the team's fortunate in some of the young hitters really stepping up, like Carlos Gonzalez. Daric Barton probably needs to spend some time in the minors as there's a difference between being disciplined and simply being too passive. Cust can get away with it since he has a lot more power, but Barton has to be more like Mark Grace. If enough breaks right for the team, they could win 80 games, but a number in the 70s is more likely depending on what Beane does in the offseason.

Name                     P  Age   AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS 
Jack Cust*               dh  30  .246  .387  .471 136 435  66 107 20  0 26  78 100 160  0  1 
Frank Thomas             dh  41  .260  .362  .402  86 296  31  77 12  0 10  41  44  50  0  0 
AVERAGE 1B/DH ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVERAGE LF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVERAGE RF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Travis Buck*             rf  24  .252  .335  .403  85 318  40  80 18  3  8  39  36  71  4  1
AVERAGE 3B --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Eric Chavez*             3b  31  .246  .328  .411  87 321  43  79 18  1 11  44  40  66  2  1 
Ryan Sweeney*            rf  24  .272  .340  .384 128 456  55 124 20  2  9  52  47  72  8  3 
Chris Denorfia           cf  28  .284  .337  .377 104 334  44  95 16  0  5  36  26  55  8  4 
Jack Hannahan*           3b  29  .247  .340  .373 123 405  47 100 24  0  9  47  56 110  3  2
AVERAGE CF --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Mark Ellis               2b  32  .253  .328  .387 118 442  59 112 22  2 11  54  43  71  7  2 
Daric Barton*            1b  23  .244  .332  .378 151 532  72 130 27  4 12  63  68  88  3  2
AVERAGE 2B --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Kurt Suzuki              c   25  .248  .325  .369 117 404  50 100 22  0  9  55  42  67  1  1
AVERAGE SS --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Matt Murton              lf  27  .253  .320  .367 114 368  43  93 17  2  7  41  34  48  4  2 
Aaron  Cunningham        cf  23  .248  .307  .404 132 532  72 132 26  3 17  69  42 110 18  9 
Emil Brown               rf  34  .250  .310  .376 106 364  43  91 17  1  9  44  29  85  5  2
AVERAGE C ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Casey Rogowski*          1b  28  .237  .308  .361 123 435  49 103 22  1 10  49  42  91 13  4 
Landon Powell#           c   27  .227  .291  .383  90 326  31  74 10  1 13  46  29  83  1  0 
Chris Carter             1b  22  .219  .284  .403 132 521  57 114 22  1 24  76  45 116  3  1 
Danny Putnam*            lf  26  .231  .303  .359  92 329  36  76 16  1  8  38  30  70  2  2 
Jeff Baisley             3b  26  .239  .296  .362 105 389  41  93 21  0  9  44  28  66  2  1 
Corey Brown*             cf  23  .216  .275  .388 103 402  36  87 18  0 17  55  31 103  9  2 
Bobby Crosby             ss  29  .234  .296  .344 110 418  50  98 23  1  7  43  36  76  7  2 
Gregorio Petit           ss  24  .260  .305  .336 110 411  40 107 17  1  4  37  25  70  5  5 
Eric Patterson*          2b  26  .235  .288  .352 122 455  54 107 20  3  9  48  33  85 23  7 
Rajai Davis#             cf  28  .245  .301  .335 113 310  41  76 13  3  3  29  22  49 29 10 
Sean Doolittle*          1b  22  .227  .281  .360 108 431  43  98 22  1 11  49  32  92  4  3 
Carlos Gonzalez*         cf  23  .233  .276  .365 130 468  50 109 30  1 10  52  25 119  7  4 
Rob Bowen#               c   28  .215  .304  .323  65 130  17  28  8  0  2  13  16  43  0  1 
Cliff Pennington#        ss  25  .227  .309  .293 141 556  73 126 21  2  4  46  65  82 23  5 
Brooks Conrad#           2b  29  .205  .269  .371 124 483  62  99 26  3 16  61  40 112  7  2 
Richie Robnett*          rf  25  .222  .277  .345 102 400  45  89 22  0  9  43  29  97  3  1 
Javier Herrera           cf  24  .218  .265  .360  81 339  42  74 16  1 10  40  19  77  9  7 
Joshua Horton*           ss  23  .243  .297  .285  99 400  38  97 12  1  1  30  29  61  2  5 
Justin Knoedler          c   28  .203  .256  .332  82 271  30  55 15  1  6  28  18  65  3  1 
Raul Padron*             c   24  .212  .252  .332  80 292  25  62 14  0  7  31  15  63  1  1 

* - Bats Left
# = Switch-Hitter

Name               CThr 1b 2b 3b ss lf cf rf 
Cust*                               Pr    Pr 
Thomas                                       
Buck*                               Av    Av 
Chavez*                       Av             
Sweeney*                            Vg Vg Vg 
Denorfia                            Av Fr Av 
Hannahan*               Av Av Av             
Ellis                      Ex                
Barton*                 Vg                   
Suzuki             Av                        
Murton                              Av Fr Fr 
Cunningham                          Vg Av Vg 
Brown                               Fr    Av 
Rogowski*               Av          Fr    Fr 
Powell#            Vg                        
Carter                  Fr                   
Putnam*                             Fr Fr Fr 
Baisley                       Av             
Brown*                              Av Pr Av 
Crosby                           Av          
Petit                      Av Av Av          
Patterson*                 Fr       Av Av Av 
Davis#                              Vg Vg Vg 
Doolittle*              Vg                   
Gonzalez*                           Av Fr Av 
Bowen#             Fr                        
Pennington#                Av Av Av          
Conrad#                    Av Av             
Robnett*                            Av Fr Av 
Herrera                             Vg Av Vg 
Horton*                    Av Av Fr          
Knoedler           Av                        
Padron*            Fr   Av                   

Player Spotlight - Jack Cust
Name               AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS  OPS+ 
Optimistic (15%)  .272  .423  .538 153 489  87 133 25  0 35 100 128 167  0  1  158 
Mean              .246  .387  .471 136 435  66 107 20  0 26  78 100 160  0  1  131              
Pessimistic (15%) .206  .346  .387 114 364  40  75 15  0 17  53  77 154  0  2   98  

Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Jason Thompson, Jim Gentile

Player Spotlight - Travis Buck
Name               AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS  OPS+ 
Optimistic (15%)  .281  .374  .475 117 438  66 123 30  5 15  67  60  85  7  1  128 
Mean              .252  .335  .403  85 318  40  80 18  3  8  39  36  71  4  1   99    
Pessimistic (15%) .227  .292  .327  68 251  21  57 11  1  4  24  22  60  2  1   69 

Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Norm Miller, Dwight Evans

Name                     Age    ERA   W   L   G  GS     INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
Brad Ziegler              29   2.89   7   3  61   0    81.0   77   26   3   25   42 
Huston Street             25   3.22   7   3  63   0    67.0   57   24   6   19   71 
Joey Devine               25   3.24   6   3  48   1    50.0   44   18   3   23   47 
Justin Duchscherer        31   3.30   9   5  18  18   101.0   96   37   9   21   70 
Santiago Casilla          29   3.90   2   2  54   1    60.0   57   26   5   26   53
AVERAGE RELIEVER ------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Jerry Blevins*            25   4.10   4   4  57   0    68.0   72   31   6   19   47 
Alan Embree*              39   4.11   3   2  64   0    57.0   57   26   6   19   50 
Sean Gallagher            23   4.23   8   7  28  23   134.0  135   63  11   65   92 
Dana Eveland*             25   4.36   7   7  25  23   132.0  139   64   9   57   91 
AVERAGE STARTER -------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Brown              28   4.43   3   3  51   0    61.0   59   30   5   35   46 
Greg Smith*               25   4.50   8   9  25  25   144.0  151   72  17   51   79 
Trevor Cahill             21   4.54   8   9  22  20   111.0  112   56  10   60   60 
Vince Mazzaro             22   4.80   9  13  29  28   167.0  185   89  17   66   73 
Brett Anderson*           21   4.90   7  10  22  21   112.0  127   61  14   33   59 
Chris Gissell             31   4.94   5   6  22  15    93.0  105   51  14   24   57 
Joshua Outman*            24   4.99   6  10  41  20   137.0  151   76  14   69   68 
Jay Marshall*             26   5.02   3   4  58   0    61.0   71   34   6   23   24 
Brad Kilby*               26   5.03   3   5  54   0    68.0   72   38  10   31   43 
Dallas Braden*            25   5.06   3   5  18  13    80.0   92   45  13   24   48 
Jared Lansford            22   5.09   3   5  29   2    53.0   59   30   6   24   28 
Ryan Wing*                27   5.26   3   4  44   7    77.0   84   45  11   39   39 
Jeff Gray                 27   5.32   3   6  57   0    71.0   84   42   9   26   35 
Keith Foulke              36   5.36   2   3  42   0    47.0   53   28  10   15   33 
Henry Rodriguez           24   5.37   5  10  30  22   109.0  116   65   9   83   61 
Kirk Saarloos             30   5.42   3   6  24  14   103.0  125   62  14   32   40 
James Simmons             22   5.44   6  10  26  26   139.0  166   84  21   44   70 
Shane Komine              28   5.60   3   7  16  13    82.0   95   51  13   30   42 
Brad Knox                 27   5.60   5   9  26  22   143.0  173   89  19   56   55 
Gio Gonzalez*             23   5.66   6  13  31  29   151.0  161   95  26   84  109 
Andrew Bailey             25   5.82   4   9  28  17   102.0  112   66  17   53   60 
Dan Meyer*                27   5.97   3   8  21  18   101.0  119   67  17   45   56 
Bret Prinz                32   6.21   1   2  29   0    29.0   33   20   5   17   19 
Lenny Dinardo*            29   6.39   2   7  19  11    69.0   92   49  11   25   29 
Justin Dowdy*             25   6.45   1   4  45   3    74.0   89   53  14   43   42 
David Shafer              27   6.45   1   2  44   1    53.0   61   38  10   36   30 
Jose Garcia               24   7.44   1   5  31   1    52.0   66   43  13   31   20 

* - Throws Left

Player Spotlight - Greg Smith
                    ERA   W   L   G  GS  INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K   ERA+       
Optimistic (15%)   3.68  11   8  28  28  164  156   67  17   49  102   115
Mean               4.50   8   9  25  25  144  151   72  17   51   79    94
Pessimistic (15%)  5.09   6   8  20  20  115  129   65  15   46   56    83

Top Near-Age Comps: John Koronka, Bill Travers

Player Spotlight - Dana Eveland

                    ERA   W   L   G  GS  INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K   ERA+       
Optimistic (15%)   3.43   9   6  28  26  152  144   58   8   53  112   123
Mean               4.36   7   7  25  23  132  139   64   9   57   91    97
Pessimistic (15%)  5.28   4   7  21  19  104  122   61   9   50   67    80

Top Near-Age Comps:  Danny Jackson, Jerry Reuss

Disclaimer:  ZiPS projections are computer-based projections of performance.  
Performances have not been allocated to predicted playing time in the majors - 
many of the players listed above are unlikely to play in the majors at all in 2009.  
ZiPS is projecting equivalent production - a .240 ZiPS projection may end up 
being .280 in AAA or .300 in AA, for example.  Whether or not a player will play 
is one of many non-statistical factors one has to take into account when predicting 
the future.

Players are listed with their most recent teams unless Dan has made a mistake.  
This is very possible as a lot of minor-league signings are generally unreported in
the offseason.  

ZiPS is projecting based on the AL having a 4.44 ERA and the NL having a 4.38 ERA.
ZiPS Frequently Asked Questions
Dan Szymborski Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:01 PM | 47 comment(s)
  Related News: OaklandZIPS

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Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Al Kaline Trio Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:31 PM (#2973580)
Man that offense is offensive. I think Suzuki and Buck will hit better than that although Buck was pretty terrible for most of this year. Hopefully a couple of these guys step it up next year and then Beane can fill in the gaps through trades next July and next offseason.

Pitching looks very promising with Gallagher and Eveland above average starters, plenty of cheap above average relievers and two 21 year olds and a 22 year old looking very close to being ready to make the jump.
   2. Walt Davis Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:34 PM (#2973584)
they could win 80 games, but a number in the 70s is more likely depending on what Beane does in the offseason.

So you're saying they will only win 90 in the DM ZiPS sims this year? :-)

Top Near-Age Comps: John Koronka, Bill Travers

A Koronka comp -- that's just cruel.

OK, so the Murton projections have finally come back down to earth but ... last year he projected as above the average LF, this year he's below the average SS? I know that gap's not as big these days as it used to be but that seems a big decline in a year.

And Ziegler blows that projection out of the water. :-)
   3. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:36 PM (#2973589)
Yeah, the O is grim, even with the park factor.

Was Landon Powell's sucky 2008 a function of the knees, or just a really bad year?
   4. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:38 PM (#2973591)
Also curious about health reports on Komine, if anybody has any.
   5. Harold Reynolds: An Erotic Life (AG#1F) Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:44 PM (#2973607)
That is a lot of bad hitters.

What about Donnie Murphy?
   6. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:48 PM (#2973618)
OK, so the Murton projections have finally come back down to earth but ... last year he projected as above the average LF, this year he's below the average SS? I know that gap's not as big these days as it used to be but that seems a big decline in a year.

Well, he's spending a year in a different park in the harder league and he was pretty lousy this year. Even ignoring a wretched cup of coffee in scattered play in the majors, being a corner outfielder with a .770ish OPS in the PCL is not a good resume line.
   7. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:52 PM (#2973621)
"What about Donnie Murphy?"

Just got bumped off the roster a day or two ago, along with Saarloos. Though I guess The Saarlacc made the cut for a projection, or at least didn't get pulled.
   8. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:54 PM (#2973632)
Why do the A's of recent vintage churn out so many good pitchers and can't develop a hitter to save their lives? OK, Swisher was one, but even he hasn't reallly broken out yet.
   9. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:56 PM (#2973634)
Anyone have any fanboy expectations of Barton to break out? Wondering if I should pick him up again in my DMB league.
   10. AROM Posted: October 07, 2008 at 03:13 PM (#2973652)
Why do the A's of recent vintage churn out so many good pitchers and can't develop a hitter to save their lives? OK, Swisher was one, but even he hasn't reallly broken out yet.


Must have something to do with the ballpark. I'd call Swisher's 2006 a breakout year, but then he's regressed. He'd make a nice Angel next year since they'll need new corner outfielders (assuming Vlad at DH, Torii in center, Rivera & GA gone, GMJ & Willits on the bench). Since they were playing Wise over him in the playoffs, maybe KW will sell low on him, possibly for another shortstop to replace Cabrera.
   11. Templeusox has Red-State Street Cred Posted: October 07, 2008 at 03:19 PM (#2973663)
What about Michael Inoa?
   12. Danny Posted: October 07, 2008 at 03:21 PM (#2973669)
I think Suzuki and Buck will hit better than that although Buck was pretty terrible for most of this year

I think the Suzuki projection is close, but I would definitely take the over on Buck's 99 OPS+.

Buck will be 25 next year, and he has a .900 career minor league OPS and a 118 OPS+ in 500 MLB PA. He was sent down in April this year after 15 terrible games (70 PA). He then put up a .900 OPS in his 101 subsequent PA. I'm more concerned with him getting hurt than I am by him repeating his 2008 with the bat.

Why do the A's of recent vintage churn out so many good pitchers and can't develop a hitter to save their lives? OK, Swisher was one, but even he hasn't reallly broken out yet.

Part of it is the excellent defense.

Speaking of which, is Cust's defense really as bad as its reputation? He seems closer to average than poor by ZR.

----------

Is there any way to account for Greg Smith's pickoffs?
   13. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 07, 2008 at 03:36 PM (#2973680)
According to Dewan, Cust is 13 plays and 21 bases below average in the field over 1088.4 innings in 2007-08, so that's -16 runs per 162 games. Not necessarily *the* worst corner outfielder in MLB, but certainly in that neighborhood--about at the level where he's equally valuable as a DH and an outfielder. UZR is not yet available for the second half of 2008, but through July '08, Lichtman has him at -10 runs in 90 defensive games, which translates to -18 runs per 162. That's pretty close agreement between the two of them that he stinks.
   14. Juan V, posting on behalf of Juan V. Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:52 PM (#2973830)
Two DHs as the best hitters. Nice....
   15. Kyle S at work Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:10 PM (#2973844)
Remember when Eric Chavez was good? Me neither :(
   16. greenback06 Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:32 PM (#2973856)
Dan, I got a dumb question here. When you say average 3b, for example, do you mean average starting 3b or average of all PA's by 3b's?
   17. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:12 PM (#2973904)
Gio Gonzalez is a lot worse than I thought he'd be. OTOH Jerry Reuss and Danny Jackson are pretty good comps for Eveland.

They actually have four above average offensive players -- Cust, Sweeney, Suzuki and Ellis (if re-signed). Buck has a good shot at beating that projection. Beane has to find better solutions at SS, 3B and 1B which he certainly has the trade chips and budget to address.

I'd be interested in projections for Andrew Carignan and Adrian Cardenas.
   18. Hecubot Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:14 PM (#2973906)
> Is there any way to account for Greg Smith's pickoffs?


It's just a really great move. It's a snap throw instead of a high leg kick manuever. He varies the rhythm on it and most guys can't read it until the first baseman has the ball. They either take off on a rundown or get tagged standing up. They're not tagged with a swipe going back to the bag.
   19. Hecubot Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:20 PM (#2973911)
I'm more bummed than ever that the A's didn't take Brett Wallace (or Aaron Hicks) in the draft. I don't have a lot of faith that Jemile Weeks will turn into the leadoff hitter and second baseman they want. Their pick next year is going to be about 13th, so it won't be much better. (Interestingly, Jemile's old double play partner at UofM, Ryan Jackson, is rated about 13th on some prospect boards, and the A's are thin on middle infielders.) Meanwhile, the Giants will have a #6 pick next year.

I actually think the Giants are in better shape than the A's. They've got a better balance of top flight pitching prospects (MadBum, Alderson) and position players (Posey, Sandoval, Villanova). I guess we'll see how long it will take Chris Carter to reach the bigs.
   20. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2973922)
Ooops, I forgot. How about Arnold Leon and Andrew Recker? Awesome as usual.
   21. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:36 PM (#2973925)
Andrew is closely related to Anthony Recker of course.
   22. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2973929)
All 1B/3B/CF etc. It's just a lot easier that way and it works too - while the average contains a lot of backups, you can also assume that the player listed will also have backup time.
   23. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:59 PM (#2973931)
Hmm, my explanation made no sense.
   24. Walt Davis Posted: October 07, 2008 at 11:46 PM (#2974010)
It's just a really great move.

I think they meant is there any way to account for the pickoffs in his ZiPS projection -- i.e. he'd have a lower ERA than his peripherals would lead you to believe either because he's removing some baserunners, they're not stealing and not taking the extra base because of short leads.

Beane has to find better solutions at SS, 3B and 1B

Not at 3B if ZiPS is to be believed. Both Chavez and Hannahan project as just a bit below average -- unless the gap between average CF and average 3B has gotten bigger than it used to be. And ZiPS suggests Hannahan would be fine at 2B as well though I don't know if that defensive rating is reliable.

No I wouldn't want to go into next year with Hannahan as my 3B ... I'm just saying ZiPS says he wouldn't suck. I would be fine going in with a healthy Chavez should such a mythical critter exist.

Hmm, my explanation made no sense.

it's a feature, not a bug. :-)

And yeah, Gio Gonzalez doesn't look too good right now. Who was the other guy they got in that trade?

And Chris Gissell -- I remember using him as my 6th or 7th starter for a DMB team like 6-7 years ago.
   25. BourbonSamurai Posted: October 08, 2008 at 12:37 AM (#2974042)
They also got Fautino De Los Santos, who is injured I think, and Ryan Sweeney, who actually looked pretty good last year.
   26. rfloh Posted: October 08, 2008 at 02:00 AM (#2974072)
I'm more concerned with him getting hurt than I am by him repeating his 2008 with the bat.


He had shin issues this year too: the A's called it "shin splints", which could mean anything from some muscular pain, to a fracture.
   27. rfloh Posted: October 08, 2008 at 02:02 AM (#2974073)
Not at 3B if ZiPS is to be believed. Both Chavez and Hannahan project as just a bit below average


Well, the thing with Chavez is just how badly his back and shoulder are damaged, and how much he has healed. At this point, any statistical projections are pretty much random guesses.
   28. Ivan Grushenko of HK in Tokyo Posted: October 08, 2008 at 10:55 AM (#2974272)
Both Chavez and Hannahan project as just a bit below average

Brandon Wood -- .229/283/.393
Jack Hannahan - .247/.340/.373 in a tougher park to hit in.

I'm still trying to get my head around this one.
   29. Joey B. Posted: October 08, 2008 at 11:15 AM (#2974299)
If the A's win 80 games next year, I'll be in a state of disbelief. I'll go so far as to say there's almost no chance of it happening.
   30. AROM Posted: October 08, 2008 at 11:27 AM (#2974324)
I think they meant is there any way to account for the pickoffs in his ZiPS projection -- i.e. he'd have a lower ERA than his peripherals would lead you to believe either because he's removing some baserunners, they're not stealing and not taking the extra base because of short leads.


Take away time constraints, and I'd love to include it in the CHONE projections. All I would need is a datasource showing how many pickoffs every pitcher has, and come up with a formula and regression to predict next year's pickoffs. Right now I don't have that datasource. I guess I'd need to learn how to spyder the major and minor league gameday files.
   31. Danny Posted: October 08, 2008 at 11:37 AM (#2974332)
I'm still trying to get my head around this one.

Hannahan hit much, much better than Wood in 2007.

He had shin issues this year too: the A's called it "shin splints", which could mean anything from some muscular pain, to a fracture.

He's had a multitude of injuries over the past few years, including a relatively bad concussion. Maybe I'm putting too much weight on his late season resurgence, but I think he'll be around average (for his position) in 2009.

According to Dewan, Cust is 13 plays and 21 bases below average in the field over 1088.4 innings in 2007-08, so that's -16 runs per 162 games. Not necessarily *the* worst corner outfielder in MLB, but certainly in that neighborhood--about at the level where he's equally valuable as a DH and an outfielder. UZR is not yet available for the second half of 2008, but through July '08, Lichtman has him at -10 runs in 90 defensive games, which translates to -18 runs per 162. That's pretty close agreement between the two of them that he stinks.

Thanks. That's definitely poor. I wonder what it is that basic ZR and RZR are missing on him. Perhaps the A's pitchers have just induced easily fieldable BIP towards Cust?

I think they meant is there any way to account for the pickoffs in his ZiPS projection -- i.e. he'd have a lower ERA than his peripherals would lead you to believe either because he's removing some baserunners, they're not stealing and not taking the extra base because of short leads.


Yes, that's what I meant. Though it seems like Smith might face the same paradox the best defensive catchers face. Instead of saving runs with his pickoffs and good CS rate, he may simply shut down the running game altogether. In the first half last year, he had 9 SB, 9 CS, and 10 pickoffs. In the second half, he had just 2 SB, 3 CS, and 5 pickoffs. If people stop running on him and take smaller leads to avoid pickoffs, he won't save any runs on SB/CS/PK. Though I guess he'd prevent more people from taking extra bases on BIP given their smaller leads.

------

Jairo Garcia was downright awful after coming back from the DL, allowing a ~.950 OPS with more walks than Ks in 30 IP. I'd be more surprised by a sub-4.00 ERA in 2009 than I would be by season ending surgery.
   32. rfloh Posted: October 08, 2008 at 11:40 AM (#2974335)
Maybe I'm putting too much weight on his late season resurgence, but I think he'll be around average (for his position) in 2009.


Oh I agree, as long as he can stay healthy. I'm basically saying that this season's crappiness was likely injury related.
   33. Danny Posted: October 08, 2008 at 11:42 AM (#2974338)
Take away time constraints, and I'd love to include it in the CHONE projections. All I would need is a datasource showing how many pickoffs every pitcher has, and come up with a formula and regression to predict next year's pickoffs. Right now I don't have that datasource. I guess I'd need to learn how to spyder the major and minor league gameday files.


Baseball Reference has the data, but I don't know how easily spider-able it is.
   34. Danny Posted: October 08, 2008 at 11:49 AM (#2974345)
Dan, can we get a projection for Jesus Guzman? Thanks!
   35. karkface killah Posted: October 09, 2008 at 12:45 AM (#2975022)
Not a whole lot of strikeouts from that pitching staff.
   36. Voros Posted: October 09, 2008 at 01:25 AM (#2975032)
Gonzalez is 22 years old and striking out a man an inning in both the big leagues and AAA. I think he'll be fine. His season may have been a little disappointing, but not nearly as much as Swisher's. Ryan Sweeney actually outhit Swisher.

Fautino De Los Santos started five games in the minors and went down injured (that seems to happen to a lot of pitchers the White Sox trade).
   37. Halofan Posted: October 09, 2008 at 02:40 AM (#2975055)
Hannahan born March 4, 1980
Wood born March 2, 1985
   38. Skinner! Posted: October 09, 2008 at 02:22 PM (#2975332)
What's with all the gio hate? A 22 yr old that K's a man an inning in the MLB is the profile you want. He's got some major control issues, but those are likely to decrease just through normal development. He might stink next year, but by 2010 he'll hopefully be at least league average (as a 24 yr old).
   39. Walt Davis Posted: October 10, 2008 at 03:01 PM (#2976122)
What's with all the gio hate?

Hate? Recognizing that someone projects to an ERA a full 1.25 runs worse than an average starter now constitutes hate?

Man people are strange these days.

Anyway, it's precisely the projected K-rate that has me sayiing he "doesn't look too good right now." Did you notice that, for whatever reason (Dan?), ZiPS projects him to just 109 K in 151 IP? That's a league-average K-rate these days. His minor-league K-rate has been the main reason he's been considered a prospect. Furthermore, he projects far worse than Cahill, Anderson, Mazzarro, Gallagher, Eveleand and even Smith, Outman and Braden (most of whom have crappy projected K-rates -- Dan?). And Rodriguez and Simmons. While it's probably a wonderful thing for the A's, that Gonzalez is projected as the 11th best starter 25 and under in the system does not suggest he has a bright future.

If Beane believes in ZiPS, I'd expect to see Gonzalez traded this offseason.
   40. Halofan Posted: October 13, 2008 at 04:42 PM (#2980656)
Does the Fremont development go thru in the current economic climate?
   41. Eraser-X is dominating this site! Posted: October 13, 2008 at 05:13 PM (#2980711)
Must have something to do with the ballpark. I'd call Swisher's 2006 a breakout year, but then he's regressed. He'd make a nice Angel next year since they'll need new corner outfielders (assuming Vlad at DH, Torii in center, Rivera & GA gone, GMJ & Willits on the bench). Since they were playing Wise over him in the playoffs, maybe KW will sell low on him, possibly for another shortstop to replace Cabrera.


Yeah, cause Williams has such a habit of selling low on folks. That's why he has such a hard time making good trades.
   42. sardonic Posted: October 13, 2008 at 05:52 PM (#2980810)
What is the conventional wisdom on Carlos Gonzalez? He seemed to show flashes of competence last year, with good doubles power, speed and defense, but he grades out as only FR in CF (which I'm assuming is worse than average) and I see that his final season totals were unimpressive. Still, he's young, and as someone who watched the games last season I would have seen him as a big part of the A's future.
   43. Johnny Clash Posted: October 14, 2008 at 08:38 PM (#2982014)
Does the Fremont development go thru in the current economic climate?

It had been looking less and less likely before the meltdown. The only thing going for the project is that the land is readily available. Which is obviously very important, but the location is almost unworkable. It would be a travesty, in this day and age, in the Bay Area no less, to build a sports stadium with no public transit access. Wolff has suggested that a BART station will be built at the new stadium location, but a look at the map is all it takes to dispel that idea - the proposed location is not near the BART line. And if Wolff thinks he can get a spur built off the BART mainline track, I'd say he's dreaming. As far as I can tell, Wolff proposed the move to Fremont some time ago, everyone pointed out what a bad idea it was, and nothing has really progressed since then.
   44. Mike Emeigh Posted: October 17, 2008 at 11:25 PM (#2986166)
Player Spotlight - Jack Cust
Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Jason Thompson, Jim Gentile


Worth noting that neither Thompson or Gentile lasted long after their age-30 seasons.

-- MWE
   45. xbhaskarx Posted: October 21, 2008 at 01:27 AM (#2990659)
No way Gio pitches that badly.
   46. Danny Posted: October 21, 2008 at 02:50 PM (#2991181)
Hate? Recognizing that someone projects to an ERA a full 1.25 runs worse than an average starter now constitutes hate?

Man people are strange these days.

Anyway, it's precisely the projected K-rate that has me sayiing he "doesn't look too good right now." Did you notice that, for whatever reason (Dan?), ZiPS projects him to just 109 K in 151 IP? That's a league-average K-rate these days. His minor-league K-rate has been the main reason he's been considered a prospect. Furthermore, he projects far worse than Cahill, Anderson, Mazzarro, Gallagher, Eveleand and even Smith, Outman and Braden (most of whom have crappy projected K-rates -- Dan?). And Rodriguez and Simmons. While it's probably a wonderful thing for the A's, that Gonzalez is projected as the 11th best starter 25 and under in the system does not suggest he has a bright future.


It's relatively easy to be more optimistic on Gio than ZiPS is.

In 2008, he put up the 3rd best FIP (3.92) in the PCL (AAA) among the 47 pitchers who qualified (Strangely, Dan Meyer was second). He was also the third youngest pitcher in the league to throw 100+ IP.

In 2007, he had the 2nd lowest FIP (2.78) in the Southern League (AA), while being the 2nd youngest SP in the league.

Pitchers don't have the same general aging patterns as hitters, but it's not hard to like Gio as a guy who has performed very well against older competition.
   47. Skinner! Posted: October 21, 2008 at 03:39 PM (#2991238)
It's relatively easy to be more optimistic on Gio than ZiPS is.


I agree. While he definitely had problems in MLB this year, I do question any assessment that his long term prognosis is poor because of that. Is he going to do well this year if he's in MLB? Probably not. The fact he doesn't average over 90 mph on his fastball raises questions, but then his curve is supposed to be top notch. And the fact that he continued to strike out batters at such a high rate is an indicator of future success.

Jonathan Sanchez was really bad in 07, and then was very good for a substantial portion of last year before he imploded. I wouldn't be surprised if Gonzalez has a similar progression, although I think his breakthrough year will be 2010.
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