Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Transaction Oracle > Discussion
Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Friday, October 10, 2008

2009 ZiPS Projections - Toronto Blue Jays

The Jays led the AL in ERA this season and almost all of that staff is guaranteed to be back next year, but the offense has a lot of work to do. None of the hitters are actually terrible per se, but there just haven't been a lot of pleasant surprises for the team. Like the Angels, the Jays are a team that really needs to take advantage of one of the best free agent crops in recent seasons and if they can't do that, they can't be in the hunt for the playoffs and they need to clean house and rebuild. This isn't the NL West and striving to win 86 games and complaining about the Yankees and Red Sox won't get the Jays into October. When the Orioles are being more decisive about organizational direction than your team is, you need to take a long, hard look at your short and long-term goals and I don't think Ricciardi's shown that he does anything but fly by the seat of his pants.

Nothing illustrates the Jays problem than Matt Watson, who's always had the potential to be a good 4th outfielder, being 2nd on the below list.


Name                     P  Age   AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS 
Alexis Rios              rf  28  .293  .347  .478 146 569  88 167 39  6 18  87  45 103 20  5
AVERAGE 1B --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Matt Watson*             lf  30  .271  .347  .458  55 192  31  52 13  1  7  31  21  29  2  1 
AVERAGE LF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVERAGE RF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyle Overbay*            1b  32  .270  .350  .417 141 496  65 134 32  1 13  66  60  94  2  1
Scott Rolen              3b  34  .259  .340  .416 102 363  54  94 25  1 10  49  38  61  4  2 
Adam Lind*               lf  25  .276  .323  .443 127 460  60 127 25  2 16  68  30  97  2  1
Vernon Wells             cf  30  .274  .329  .444 130 514  72 141 29  2 18  76  41  71  8  6
AVERAGE CF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVERAGE 3B --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Aaron Hill               2b  27  .281  .334  .400 119 438  55 123 29  1  7  51  32  64  4  2
AVERGE 2B ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Joe Inglett*             2b  31  .283  .338  .379 122 414  52 117 18  5  4  44  31  61  8  6 
Jose Bautista            3b  28  .230  .319  .414 137 457  62 105 25  1 19  65  54 119  4  3 
AVERAGE SS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marco Scutaro            ss  33  .261  .334  .364 105 352  50  92 16  1  6  39  37  53  4  1
AVERAGE C ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Zaun#              c   38  .233  .333  .357  87 258  30  60 14  0  6  31  38  42  1  1 
Brad Wilkerson*          rf  32  .230  .315  .393  82 270  36  62 15  1  9  37  33  84  2  2 
Kevin Mench              lf  31  .253  .300  .395  89 281  33  71 17  1  7  35  18  49  1  0 
Travis Snider*           rf  21  .251  .304  .411 137 526  66 132 27  0 19  74  39 151  2  6 
Rod Barajas              c   33  .242  .298  .401  85 277  34  67 17  0  9  37  18  52  0  0 
Hector Luna              3b  27  .254  .305  .383 119 413  54 105 21  1 10  50  27  87  6  4 
Chip Cannon*             1b  27  .223  .295  .369 104 363  36  81 17  0 12  46  34 127  1  0 
J.P. Arencibia           c   23  .247  .272  .414  99 396  40  98 21  0 15  56  12  83  0  0 
Russ Adams*              rf  28  .231  .297  .361 119 407  52  94 19  2 10  47  37  73  6  2 
Brian Jeroloman*         c   24  .226  .320  .313 101 336  27  76 14  0  5  31  46  64  0  0 
Buck Coats*              cf  27  .243  .291  .341 128 449  53 109 21  1  7  46  30  92 13  3 
Curtis Thigpen           c   26  .221  .281  .322 100 339  31  75 20  1  4  32  26  61  2  1 
Pedro Lopez              ss  25  .237  .281  .320 119 413  42  98 17  1  5  39  25  70  4  3 
Wayne Lydon              rf  28  .227  .289  .297 121 471  61 107 17  2  4  39  40 100 25  7 
Danny Sandoval           2b  29  .233  .267  .300 108 390  33  91 14  0  4  33  16  54  4  3 

* - Bats Left
# = Switch-Hitter

Name               CThr 1b 2b 3b ss lf cf rf 
Rios                                   Av Vg 
Watson*                 Av          Av    Av 
Overbay*                Vg                   
Rolen                         Ex             
Lind*                   Fr          Fr    Fr 
Wells                                  Av    
Hill                       Vg    Pr          
Inglett*                   Av Fr Pr Av Fr Av 
Bautista                   Pr Fr    Fr    Fr 
Scutaro                 Av Av Vg Av Av       
Zaun#              Av                        
Wilkerson*              Av          Av Pr Av 
Mench                   Fr          Fr    Fr 
Snider*                             Fr    Fr 
Barajas            Av   Av                   
Luna                    Av Av Vg Fr          
Cannon*                 Av    Pr             
Arencibia          Av                        
Adams*                     Fr Fr Fr       Av 
Jeroloman*         Av                        
Coats*                              Vg Fr Vg 
Thigpen            Fr   Av Pr Fr             
Lopez                      Vg    Vg          
Lydon                               Vg Vg Vg 
Sandoval                   Av Av Av          

Player Spotlight - Alex Rios
Name               AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS  OPS+ 
Optimistic (15%)  .314  .373  .525 152 592 105 186 45  7 22 101  53  95 25  5  134 
Mean              .293  .347  .478 146 569  88 167 39  6 18  87  45 103 20  5  115  
Pessimistic (15%) .270  .319  .417 137 533  60 144 33  3 13  69  37 110 16  6   93 

Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Pete Fox, Al Cowens

Player Spotlight - Adam Lind
Name               AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS  OPS+ 
Optimistic (15%)  .297  .348  .518 145 525  80 156 35  6 23  91  39 103  3  1  125
Mean              .276  .323  .443 127 460  60 127 25  2 16  68  30  97  2  1  100   
Pessimistic (15%) .244  .284  .371 111 402  36  98 19  1 10  48  22  92  1  1   71   

Top Near-Age Offensive Comps: Derrick May, Al Woods

Name                     Age    ERA   W   L   G  GS     INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K 
B.J. Ryan*                33   2.68   4   1  46   0    47.0   36   14   3   18   51 
Scott Downs*              33   2.93   4   1  67   0    67.2   59   22   4   26   57 
Roy Halladay              32   3.40  16   9  32  32   225.0  223   85  18   42  155 
Casey Janssen             27   3.54   4   2  58   0    61.0   63   24   5   14   36 
Brian Tallet*             31   3.76   3   2  56   0    67.0   62   28   5   30   54 
Jason Frasor              31   3.79   3   2  54   0    57.0   47   24   5   29   59 
Brandon League            26   3.84   3   3  50   0    68.0   68   29   4   25   47 
A.J. Burnett              32   3.95  12  10  28  28   180.0  172   79  20   66  170 
Shaun Marcum              27   4.04   8   6  30  23   147.0  141   66  20   44  126 
Jeremy Accardo            27   4.06   3   3  51   0    51.0   51   23   5   18   37 
Jesse Litsch              24   4.09  13  11  31  30   187.0  197   85  21   44   98 
AVERAGE RELIEVER ------------- 4.09 -----------------------------------------------
Jesse Carlson*            28   4.11   5   5  65   0    70.0   69   32   8   23   53 
Dustin McGowan            27   4.15   9   8  29  23   141.0  133   65  14   62  122 
Shawn Camp                33   4.34   3   3  55   0    56.0   60   27   5   15   44 
Brett Cecil*              22   4.40   4   4  23  23    90.0   89   44  10   36   65 
Brian Wolfe               28   4.57   4   4  43   5    67.0   72   34   8   20   37
AVERAGE STARTER -------------- 4.61 ----------------------------------------------- 
John Parrish*             31   4.97   3   3  28   7    67.0   70   37   8   37   52 
Davis Romero*             26   5.02   7   9  31  20   120.0  136   67  20   38   83 
Reid Santos*              26   5.07   3   5  45   4    87.0   93   49  15   33   58 
Chris George*             29   5.20   4   7  33  13    97.0  108   56  11   45   61 
Jean Machi                27   5.26   3   4  38   4    77.0   84   45  10   39   43 
David Purcey*             27   5.27   6  10  23  23   128.0  139   75  19   54   92 
Mike Gosling*             28   5.28   4   7  41   9    92.0  102   54  13   41   68 
Jordan de Jong            30   5.29   3   5  46   0    68.0   72   40  10   36   49 
Mike MacDonald            27   5.43   5   9  31  19   131.0  160   79  19   39   62 
Fabio Castro*             24   5.45   4   8  32  14   104.0  110   63  16   53   73 
Sean Stidfole             25   5.47   2   3  55   0    74.0   79   45  11   46   43 
Bill Murphy*              28   5.51   4   8  42  16   116.0  128   71  17   60   88 
Dirk Hayhurst             28   5.55   3   6  42   8    94.0  108   58  14   34   66 
Ricky Romero*             24   5.90   4   8  22  22   119.0  138   78  17   67   66 
Jonah Bayliss             28   6.13   3   6  57   0    69.0   79   47  14   33   48

* - Throws Left

Player Spotlight - Jesse Litsch
                    ERA   W   L   G  GS  INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K   ERA+       
Optimistic (15%)   3.44  17   9  34  33  212  207   81  21   38  120   129  
Mean               4.09  13  11  31  30  187  197   85  21   44   98   108
Pessimistic (15%)  5.24   8  12  26  26  146  172   85  22   44   72    84 

Top Near-Age Comps: Larry Christensen, Jeff Suppan

Player Spotlight - A.J. Burnett
                    ERA   W   L   G  GS  INN    H   ER  HR   BB    K   ERA+       
Optimistic (15%)   3.13  16   7  30  30  201  173   70  18   61  203   141
Mean               3.95  12  10  28  28  180  172   79  20   66  170   112 
Pessimistic (15%)  4.91   8  10  23  23  141  150   77  19   63  124    90

Top Near-Age Comps:  Camilo Pascual, Bill Singer

Disclaimer:  ZiPS projections are computer-based projections of performance.  
Performances have not been allocated to predicted playing time in the majors - 
many of the players listed above are unlikely to play in the majors at all in 2009.  
ZiPS is projecting equivalent production - a .240 ZiPS projection may end up 
being .280 in AAA or .300 in AA, for example.  Whether or not a player will play 
is one of many non-statistical factors one has to take into account when predicting 
the future.

Players are listed with their most recent teams unless Dan has made a mistake.  
This is very possible as a lot of minor-league signings are generally unreported in
the offseason.  

ZiPS is projecting based on the AL having a 4.44 ERA and the NL having a 4.38 ERA.
ZiPS Frequently Asked Questions
Dan Szymborski Posted: October 10, 2008 at 02:56 PM | 29 comment(s)
  Related News: TorontoZIPS

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Marcel Posted: October 10, 2008 at 03:55 PM (#2976190)
Just curious Dan, why do projections for Marcum and McGowan when they're going to miss all of next season anyway?
   2. Harold Reynolds: An Erotic Life (AG#1F) Posted: October 10, 2008 at 03:57 PM (#2976192)
"Dirk Hayhurst" = coolest new name in baseball?
   3. JJ1986 Posted: October 10, 2008 at 03:58 PM (#2976193)
When Matt Watson is a better hitter than most of your team then something has gone terribly wrong.
   4. fra paolo Posted: October 10, 2008 at 04:05 PM (#2976202)
Is that the same Chris George who had quasi-prospect status about five years ago?
   5. 1k5v3L Posted: October 10, 2008 at 04:07 PM (#2976203)
Is AJ Burnett guaranteed to be back?
   6. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: October 10, 2008 at 04:13 PM (#2976210)
The Jays led the AL in ERA this season and almost all of that staff is guaranteed to be back next year


It seems like the only starters who are likely to pitch for Jays next year are Halladay and Litsch. Purcey and Parrish will be back, but I don't think they're be helping win another ERA title. The loss of Marcum, McGowan, and Burnett (it seems likely he'll opt out) really hurts.
   7. flournoy Posted: October 10, 2008 at 04:18 PM (#2976212)
Wow, I had no idea until now that Hayhurst was claimed by the Blue Jays.
   8. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 10, 2008 at 05:53 PM (#2976319)
Just curious Dan, why do projections for Marcum and McGowan when they're going to miss all of next season anyway?

I always do projections for those that will probably miss a season.

Is that the same Chris George who had quasi-prospect status about five years ago?

Yes.

It seems like the only starters who are likely to pitch for Jays next year are Halladay and Litsch. Purcey and Parrish will be back, but I don't think they're be helping win another ERA title. The loss of Marcum, McGowan, and Burnett (it seems likely he'll opt out) really hurts.

That's their two likely best starters, they've had serious talks with Burnett, and the entire bullpen.

Wow, I had no idea until now that Hayhurst was claimed by the Blue Jays.

I'm probably going to keep projecting Hayhurst as long as he's in baseball. Meritorious Internetary Contributions. I did that with CBW (and his projections sadly were weaker).
   9. jwb Posted: October 10, 2008 at 07:24 PM (#2976395)
Did I miss a John McDonald transaction?
   10. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:08 PM (#2976415)
Oops, hopped from Inglett to Overbay on the 40-man roster.
   11. Eric P. Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2976469)
Just curious Dan, why do projections for Marcum and McGowan when they're going to miss all of next season anyway?


Only Marcum's out for the whole year. McGowan's surgery was to repair fraying in the labrum but nothing was found to be wrong with his rotator cuff and he could be ready for the start of the season, probably May at the latest.
   12. Ryan Jones Posted: October 10, 2008 at 08:45 PM (#2976483)
I'm surprised. I honestly thought they were talking about the All-Star Break for McGowan's return.
   13. Frisco Cali Posted: October 10, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#2976605)
I always do projections for those that will probably miss a season.

Can you do one for me? I've missed a few seasons - 30 to be precise - when I probably hit about .250 in Little League as a left fielder. I distinctly remember hitting a triple once that year.
   14. John Northey Posted: October 11, 2008 at 06:58 AM (#2977547)
Given that you have Matt Watson projected to hit better than average for all positions outside of first base wouldn't he hit better than the vast majority of players on most teams by definition? If he is that good then he should be a starter, not a 4th outfielder.

As to the Jays you have Rios, Rolen, Wells, and Hill projected to hit better than positional average, while Scutaro is listed as just below average for his (seems odd that he appears to be the everyday shortstop for 2009...I keep hoping for a trade to improve there). It isn't good by any stretch, but having just shy of 1/2 the lineup (1/2 a person shy) above average for their position isn't horrible either, in fact it sounds like what 'normal' should be.
   15. Jason Robar Posted: October 11, 2008 at 11:48 AM (#2977640)
Dan, is there any way to manipulate ZiPS into thinking that Cecil will go 5 innings in the games that he starts? I realize that the way the Jays handled him this year is the cause of the projection, but there's the odd rumbling that Cecil could win the 5th starter's spot out of spring training. I can't see that happening if they think they need to keep stretching him out.
   16. MM1f Posted: October 11, 2008 at 12:55 PM (#2977696)
How on earth does Zips figure Watson to be an above-average LF next year anyway though?
What is the computer thinking there?

Watson being, in theory, the Jay's 2nd best OF seems like it is more Zips problem than the Jays.
   17. Rusty Priske Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:19 PM (#2977709)
Uh... I figure I follow the Jays pretty closely normally, but, uh..

Who is Matt Watson?
   18. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:25 PM (#2977713)
Who is Matt Watson?

Slight Phelpser who generally has trouble with lefties. He's probably closer to 330/420 full-time.
   19. JJ1986 Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:27 PM (#2977715)
Who is Matt Watson?

He was a regular outfielder for Sacramento earlier this decade who never really got a chance in Oakland. He went to Japan, but now he must be back. He was never a Jays prospect.
   20. MM1f Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:29 PM (#2977718)
Journeyman AAAA OF.
Started out as a 3b in the Expos system. Moved to 2b when people thought he couldn't hit for 3b. Started hitting a lot, but I guess folks decided he wasn't an IF at all, so he moves to LF and puts up some good minor league years. Bounces from the Expos to the Mets to the A's.
   21. The_Ex Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:43 PM (#2977728)
Watson played for the Jays AAA team in Syracuse this season. He missed time and only had 252 ab's but did walk a lot. He hit .290 with an OPS of .816. The ZIPS projection of an OPS of .805 is just marginally below his AAA numbers at age 30.
   22. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:56 PM (#2977736)
Watson played for the Jays AAA team in Syracuse this season. He missed time and only had 252 ab's but did walk a lot. He hit .290 with an OPS of .816. The ZIPS projection of an OPS of .805 is just marginally below his AAA numbers at age 30.

He was better for Sacramento.

His projection should actually be a little lower - I didn't include his Japanese numbers.
   23. MM1f Posted: October 11, 2008 at 03:11 PM (#2977766)
Ohhh...He was in Japan.
I assumed he was hurt for parts of 06 and 08 and all of 07.
   24. Walt Davis Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:21 PM (#2977796)
As to the Jays you have Rios, Rolen, Wells, and Hill projected to hit better than positional average, while Scutaro is listed as just below average for his (seems odd that he appears to be the everyday shortstop for 2009...I keep hoping for a trade to improve there). It isn't good by any stretch, but having just shy of 1/2 the lineup (1/2 a person shy) above average for their position isn't horrible either, in fact it sounds like what 'normal' should be.

Not exactly. There are lots of ways to get to "normal". Sure, it would be normal for a lineup to have, say, 4 above-average players, one average player and 4 below-average ... or 3/3/3 or whatever. But, generally, some of those above-average guys will be well above-average. Dan doesn't tell us exactly where average is but basically Rios, Rolen, Wells and Hill are just a hair above-average while Overbay and Lind look to be pretty substantially below-average. Scutaro and Zaun (who may not be back) are a smidgen below average and then you have the mystery DH. So the scary thing about that lineup is that there are no good hitters in it.

The second point is that the "average" is a mix of starters and backups. You want your starters to be ab0ve-average because your subs are going to be below. If Rolen plays 100 games of just above-average 3B you need a near-average backup for 60 -- hard to find.

The bright spot of the Jays lineup is the defense. They are above-average at 4 spots (1B, 2B, 3B, RF) and average at 3 and only below-average in LF (assuming Lind). A near-average offense and above-average defense can add up to fine overall value. And, unlike offensive numbers, backups are often as good or better defensively than the starters so an "average" defensive rating can mean that a player is a little better than the average starter at his position. (But, for ZiPS, "average" is something like +/- 5 runs).
   25. The_Ex Posted: October 11, 2008 at 05:55 PM (#2977849)
For clarity Watson was in Sacramento for parts of 2004, 2005 and 2006. I assume he was in Japan in 2007 and he was in Syracuse for all of 2008.
   26. a wider scope of derision Posted: October 20, 2008 at 10:14 AM (#2989889)
Snider's line seems low... even when you account for his crazy BABIP he's still should be good for a .750-.800 OPS (hey, just like the rest of the lineup!) Or am I just trying to wring anything positive from this lineup?

What is Janssen's projection as a starter?

Is it just me, or is it terrifying how similar this team is to the A's? (It's just not costing Wolff $100M+ plus he's got much more depth in the minors.) Trading Halladay would break my heart, but can somebody please get this guy some post-season innings already?
   27. *BaseClogger* Posted: October 30, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#3000115)
They remind me of an older version of the Reds...
   28. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: October 30, 2008 at 08:42 PM (#3000140)
I'm never sure just how to treat Japanese numbers for the guys who tanked and left quickly (though Watson lasted 363 PA for Lotte over '06/'07) - they tell us more about how they would do in a second stint there than how they would here, I think.
   29. Mike Emeigh Posted: October 30, 2008 at 09:27 PM (#3000171)
Snider's line seems low... even when you account for his crazy BABIP he's still should be good for a .750-.800 OPS (hey, just like the rest of the lineup!) Or am I just trying to wring anything positive from this lineup?


Yes.

Snider's a talent, but he strikes out a ton, and the league will figure out pretty quickly that he's going to swing and miss a lot and keep extending his zone. He'll eventually adjust, I think, but it's unrealistic to expect much more than what ZiPS is showing. But he is just 20 (21 in February) and by far the best offensive talent on the team.

-- MWE
Page 1 of 1 pages

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

My Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

Royals - Acquired Crisp
(20 - 6:58am, Nov 23)

Braves - Claimed O'Flaherty
(2 - 11:04am, Nov 22)

Cubs - Signed Dempster
(22 - 2:08pm, Nov 19)

Giants - Signed Affeldt
(5 - 5:15pm, Nov 18)

Cubs - Acquired Gregg
(35 - 3:50pm, Nov 14)

Yanks - Signed Marte
(10 - 1:45pm, Nov 14)

Giants - Siigned Phelps
(21 - 1:22am, Nov 14)

Vivid Seats is a sports ticket broker, concert ticket broker and theater ticket broker offering the best baseball tickets like Yankees tickets, Cubs tickets, and Red Sox tickets, as well as Police reunion tour tickets and Jersey Boys tickets.

We have baseball tickets, the NFL schedule, college football tickets and Cowboys tickets. We have NBA tickets like Celtics tickets and Lakers tickets. Plus, buy Giants tickets, Patriots tickets and Colts tickets. Also check out our MLB baseball schedule

Buy Cheap MLB Tickets

Concerts Theatre NFL Angels Dodgers MLB Celtics Theater NBA Tickets Venues NHL Lakers Tickets NFL Yankees NHL Phillies NBA Wicked Marlins MLB Concerts Cubs Mets Red Sox Wicked WWE Red Sox Mets Yankees Dodgers

Page rendered in 0.6771 seconds
62 querie(s) executed