One positive: Yuniesky Betancourt is a better player than Tony Pena Jr.

The Pirates and Royals are both consistently remembering "buy low, sell high" over the last couple years. And I like it, but buying a D+ player at the price of a D- player is probably still a bad move.

Another positive: It's not the worst trade today.

Where's the Francoeur thread? I want me some self-immolation.

One positive: Yuniesky Betancourt is a better player than Tony Pena Jr.

This is debatable. Seriously, it is.

It's hard to understand why the Royals would do this, even if Seattle is picking up all of Yuni's salary (I don't know how much of it they're picking up).

It's hard to understand why the Royals would do this...

Ironic nostalgia for Angel Berroa?

Betancourt used to be a player who inspired a certain amount of lunacy from Mariners fans. That's a thread from two years ago in which David Cameron says he wouldn't trade Betancourt for Carlos Guillen, calls a comparison of Betancourt to Jason Bartlett "a joke", and says that Mariners fans "know better" than the various defensive metrics that show him to be a lousy fielder. For incorrect and intemperate prognostication, you can't get a hell of a lot better than that.

That's a thread from two years ago in which David Cameron (...) calls a comparison of Betancourt to Jason Bartlett "a joke"

It is!!!

Derrick Saito is in AA ball? I remember when he was a Cal Poly Mustang.

I guess I should have nominated Cano in the most overrated prospect thread the other day. That he still gets talked up as some kind of top prospect (not pointing at John here, by the way) amazes me.

I've seen Cano play a lot, and I'm not even sure he'd be a productive Triple-A player. Let's start with his defense; it's brutal. He has terrible footwork and simply lacks any kind of instincts around the bag. There's no way you want him playing up the middle. He might have the raw speed to not be awful in left field, but that's about as kind as I can be regarding his glovework. Offensively, he's a fastball hitter. He sits dead red on every pitch and waits for a mistake. Any good breaking ball or offspeed pitch will have him out in front. He's mostly a gap hitter, lacking the power to drive the ball consistently over the wall. To add insult to injury, he's also a terrible baserunner.

In his prime, I think he could hit .280/.320/.400 while playing awful defense. Yipee.

David Cameron, February 20, 2005

Is it fair to pick out random comments on minor leaguers from years back? Probably not, but its fun.

Speaking of that thread, what happened to Eric Duncan? I remember that I used to be jealous that the Yankees had him. A .644 career AAA OPS? That's not what I (nor the Yankees, I'm sure) envisioned.

The quotes in this article are priceless. Suffice to say that former Mariners Willie Bloomquist, Jose Guillen, and Gil Meche are very impressed with the acquisition of Betancourt.

Bloomquist:

“Wow! Really? He’s very, very talented to the point where — and I’ve told him this — he could be the best defensive shortstop in the game hands down. And offensively, he can swing it.”
...
“It makes me smile that we got him. He’s going to help.”

Guillen:

“For two minor-league pitchers? Are you serious? How weird is that? I’m totally surprised. That’s all I can tell you. I’m shocked. That kid is pretty darn good.”

Meche:

“He’s pretty darn good. He’s fun to play with. I can tell you that pitching against him - he’s not an easy guy to pitch to. He’s got some pop. And as far as playing shortstop, he’s one of the best I’ve seen. He makes tough plays look really easy.”

Papelbon is essentially the Red Sox version of Clint Nageotte. Power pitcher without a good offspeed pitch, low to mid 90s fastball, lots of scouts prefer as a reliever. Papelbon has slightly better command, but Nageotte showed some groundball dominance this year, so those can essentially cancel each other out. Would you trade Jeremy Reed for another Clint Nageotte?

--Cameron, Dec 29, 2005

this thread sucks.

From Cameron in the link in #8:

In terms of the total package (offensive and defensive contributions, as well as contract), how would you rank YB among current shortstops?

Contract is a big part of it. He’s essentially a league average shortstop who won’t make any real money for a couple of years, and that’s really valuable. In terms of trade value, without looking into it with too much depth, Betancourt would rank behind Jose Reyes, Stephen Drew, and Hanley Ramirez among major league shortstops, and that’s about it.

Um, wow.

Maybe that should be the Royals marketing slogan for the rest of the season, "Offensively, they can swing it!”

I'll let Trey Hillman explain the reasoning behind the trade:

"It gives up the latitude to have Betancourt at short."

to be fair, Cano has hit better than his minor league # suggest. sometimes age and league context in the minors is very hard to read properly

As for Eric Duncan, not sure, seems like the Yankees messed his swing up and some injuries also hasn't helped. then again, they also changed Austin Jackson's swing and it seems to be working so far.

These wiseass TOs make me sick!

One positive: Yuniesky Betancourt is a better player than Tony Pena Jr.

WAR: Tony Pena Jr. -0.6, Yuniesky Betancourt -0.8

Once upon a time Angel Berroa won Rookie of the Year. Allard Baird handed him a long-term deal and Angel became a lazy player who didn't hustle, played awful defense, swung at everything and had negative value. Royals fans lamented "please get us a guy that can at least field - we don't care how bad he hits, because nothing can be worse than watching Angel Berroa play!"

So Dayton acquires Tony Pena Jr., a glove man who can't hit. And Royals fans lamented "please get us a guy that can at least hit - we don't care how bad he fields, because nothing can be worse than watching Tony Pena Jr. play!"

Now Dayton acquires Yuniesky Betancourt, a shortstop with a long-term deal who doesn't hustle, plays awful defense, swings at everything and has negative value.

Ah, the circle of suckitude.

These wiseass TOs make me yearn for more stupid transactions. Thankfully there are plenty of current GMs who seem to feel the same way.

Wow.

Did Saito run over your dog?

He signed for 100k+ just last year. That is 7th-8th round money, the same kind of cash that a high-profile guy like Cole St. Clair got. He is an inconsistent 5-foot9 low-A reliever but he is still just 21, his fastball is in the low 90s, his breaker can be good and he K/BB rates have been great. Also, he is a lefty

He isn't great, but he has a future and youre making him out to be nothing

Criticizing David Cameron's overstatements is one of my fave pastimes as well, but in all fairness he did look like a league averagish contributor for awhile there at the beginning. (Yuni, I mean. Dave's an all-star, of course.)

I must confess I myself thought at one time that Joel Pineiro had the stuff (mental and physical) to be an ace pitcher. (Ryan "Chef" Anderson, Gil "Paper" Meche, Pineiro, Nageotte: The M's are the new Atlanta Braves!!!)

Well, hey, Piniero does lead the majors in groundball percentage and is rocking a 131 ERA+.

The quotes from those Royals players are hilarious.

Yes. El Hombre. Yet the first decade of Pineiro's MLB career bears less resemblance than he'd like to Mike Mussina's.

Did Saito run over your dog?
I'm w/ MM1F - Saito's interesting, though I don't think he'll pan out.

Saito has a non-zero chance of being a decent LOOGY. He alone is way too much for Betancourt. Throw in a promising arm with command issues like Cortes and this is "Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez" territory.

Dan, didn't think you cared enough about the Mets to be violently emotional about Minaya.

Not sure if this was linked here in some thread, but a great rant by Joe Posnanski.

WAR: Tony Pena Jr. -0.6, Yuniesky Betancourt -0.8

then again, wouldn't Pena only playing in 46 games and not having 50 PA kind of reduce his total there?

TPJ was -1.3 in 2008 with -29.9 batting value. Betancourt was 0.3 in 2008 with a -11.5 batting value.

So, in theory, Betancourt is 2 times better than Pena with a bat, and 3 times better overall.