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Primate Studies — Where BTF's Members Investigate the Grand Old Game Monday, August 06, 2007Barry Bonds-Double DuplicityI have insight into the Barry Bonds “achievement” that I would like to share before he breaks Henry Aaron’s estimable record. Thus: In addition to alleged steroid use, Bonds is unquestionably guilty of the use of a mechanism that confers extraordinarily unfair mechanical advantage: the apparatus that he wears on his front elbow. Many have remarked that his “protective” gear permits Bonds to lean over the plate without fear of being hit. Thus situated, Bonds sees the outside pitch (where most pitchers live) as a pitch down Broadway. This is unfair advantage enough but, in fact, only one of at least seven unfair advantages conferred by the apparatus. Other advantages: 2) The apparatus is hinged at the elbow. It is a literal “hitting machine” that allows Bonds to release his front arm on the same plane during every swing. It largely accounts for the seemingly magical consistency of every Bonds stroke. 3) The apparatus locks at the elbow when the lead arm is fully elongated because of a small flap at the top of the bottom section that fits into a groove in the bottom of the top section. The locked arm forms a rigid front arm fulcrum that allows extraordinary, maximally efficient explosion of the levers of Bonds’ wrists. Bonds hands are quicker than those of average hitters because of his mechanical “assistant.” 4) When Bonds swings, the weight of the apparatus helps to seal his inner upper arm to his torso at impact. Thus “connected,” he automatically hits the ball with the weight of his entire body -not just his arms -as average hitters ("extending") tend to do. 5) Bonds has performed less well in Home Run Derbies than one might expect because he has no excuse to wear a “protector” facing a batting practice pitcher. As he tires, his front arm elbow tends to lift and he swings under the ball, producing pop-up fly balls or topspin liners that stay in the park. When the apparatus is worn, its weight keeps his elbow down and he drives the ball with backspin.
6) Bonds enjoys quicker access to the inside pitch than average hitters because his “assistant” -counter-intuitively - allows him to turn more rapidly. Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, closer to their axes of rotation.
7) At impact, Bonds has additional mass (the weight of his “assistant") not available to the average hitter. The combined weight of “assistant” and bat is probably equal to the weight of the lumber wielded by Babe Ruth but with more manageable weight distribution. There are additional important advantages - too technical to address here- that I’ll save for the hitting mechanics book that I’m writing (Charlie Lau was completely wrong about “extension").
Several years back, baseball was rightfully scandalized by the revelation that Sammy Sosa had “corked” his bat. The advantages conferred by The Bonds “hitting machine”, however, far exceed anything supplied by cork. Although it’s impossible to arrive at an accurate figure, I would estimate that Bonds’ “assistant” has added no fewer than 75-100 to his already steroid-questionable total. Ultimately, Bonds’ “achievement’ must be regarded as a product of double duplicity.
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Exactly. I don't see how you can fault anyone for using something that is within the rules of the game.
-- MWE
Didn't MLB issue a crackdown on body armor, and sort of grandfathered it in for players who were already using it as some kind of "medical excuse"?
Would he also tell us about a rogue planet that's going to flip Earth on it's axis?
(right???)
Seems the issue isn't whether Bonds has unfair advantage over active rivals - it's Aaron we're looking at, no?
Having cleared that hurdle, the next one is:
Does anyone with any credibility believe this is true?
That may be a much higher bar...
"although it’s impossible to arrive at an accurate figure, i would estimate that Bonds’ “assistant” has added no fewer than 75-100 to his already steroid-questionable total."
awesome
I think this is the same guy.
-- MWE
Aaron also didn't have access to the advances in medicine and sports science that Bonds does. But then, Ruth was even worse off...But what about the guy whose record Ruth broke then?
It must be true, I read it on the internet.
Caught!...maybe this is why Bonds always hits in the cage instead of taking BP with his teammates...
Although according to my indisputable pinpoint research, Bonds' elbow armor has only added somewhere between 66.5 and 67.2 home runs to his total. The actual total is unknowable.
Those ~67 go with the 103 he got from steroids, the 26 from HGH, the 0 from amphetamines, the 19 from hitting ahead of Ray Durham, the 2 hologram-aided shots, the 5 he stole from Ron Kittle by burglarizing Elias, and the 31 off pitchers who unknowingly bought watered-down dosages from Greg Anderson. In my system, Bonds is also credited with the 3 would-be home runs knocked from the sky by the hangdog forcefield created by the power of Bud Selig's dejection.
"and two hard-boiled eggs"
It's the entire article that's been quoted. And based on the first sentence in the post, I'd assume the whole thing was copied.
1)The elbow is already a hinge
2)A level swing is dependent on the shoulder
6) Bonds enjoys quicker access to the inside pitch than average hitters because his “assistant” -counter-intuitively - allows him to turn more rapidly. Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, closer to their axes of rotation.
It's called "moment of inertia" and if it were true that pulling in your arms generated more bat speed we would expect to see more hitters short-arming the ball.
7) At impact, Bonds has additional mass (the weight of his “assistant") not available to the average hitter. the combined weight of “assistant” and bat is probably equal to the weight of the lumber wielded by Babe Ruth but with more manageable weight distribution.
Why is this weight distribution better? Isn't it ideal to have weight concentrated at the end of the bat? Shouldn't power hitters be chocking up to take advantage of your hypothesis?
3) The apparatus locks at the elbow when the lead arm is fully elongated because of a small flap at the top of the bottom section that fits into a groove in the bottom of the top section. The locked arm forms a rigid front arm fulcrum that allows extraordinary, maximally efficient explosion of the levers of Bonds’ wrists. Bonds hands are quicker than those of average hitters because of his mechanical “assistant.”
To take advantage of the counter-weight he would be pulling his elbows in toward his body. Here you're saying that the guard helps him lock the elbow at full extension.
It is estimated that he is able to hit the ball at least 20 times farther that players without hitting apparati in each upper body appendage. By my expert calculation, this accounts for approximately 7% of his already suspect HR total. Of course, a bizarro-world, elbowless Bonds has already shattered the sacrifice fly and productive out records--records far more sacred than the HR record.
-- MWE
Even assuming that the theory does have merit, Bonds's elbow pad has been sanctioned by MLB, unlike any alleged usage of steroids. If Bonds's performance weren't already being called into question because of the steroid controversy, this wouldn't matter one little bit, because it's not against the rules. I don't see why the existing shadow should require us to take this any more seriously than we would otherwise.
-- MWE
2) In fact, a level swing is controlled more by the action of the bottom hand wrist through and after contact with the ball.
6) On an inside pitch, the batter must break his front arm elbow and retract his front arm to get "inside" of the pitch.The back arm explode through into full extension (it's not "short-armed").
7) Weight away from a person's center is more difficult to manage. Try picking up any object with arms extended as opposed to close to the body. Bonds does choke up.(Snabby)
The arm without the elbow pad?
The back arm explode through into full extension (it's not "short-armed").
Full extension is reached after contact and therefore does not create a fulcrum for his wrists.
7) Weight away from a person's center is more difficult to manage. Try picking up any object with arms extended as opposed to close to the body. Bonds does choke up.(Snabby)
That's simple torque, not the moment of inertia factor you are describing in the swing.
Perhaps I didn't state my point clearly. I agree with you that Witte is wrong as to his claim that Bonds' cheated by using the pad since it's been sanctioned by MLB. What I think is interesting are his more specific technical claims about how the pad has helped Bonds.
MLB sanctions means you can't call Bonds a cheater (for this), but if there's an unfair advantage then MLB needs to consider changing the rule.
Gee, I love that kind of talk.
I know it's true.
Oh, so true.
'Cause I saw it on TV.
God, I love John Fogerty.
And we all know that the NBA is completely on the up-and-up and would never even consider this sort of preferential treatment to preferred superstars. :)
Where's Smitty when you need him?
Whoa there cowboy.
Best Regards
John
Pants help you slide. Caps unfairly keep the sun out of your eyes. Dounuts in the on-deck circle, unfairly help you make your bat lighter.
Under what scenario is this device not marketed? Barry has paid off the inventor? Had him killed? Ate him?
Well, that's kind of you to say except the part about always having an opinion. My wife says something similar, but it's never meant as a compliment.
But I really do struggle to understand the context around this alleged "hitting aide". If one reads "SkyMall" magazine on a plane there are devices on pet tracking. Plucking golf balls out of ponds from 30'. All kinds of niche instruments.
And here supposedly a star baseball player is utilizing a device to further leverage his already significant talents and nobody but this author has recognized or acknowledged said contraption in the 15(!) years of its use?
Who makes something that could revolutionize the act of hitting a baseball and isn't on late night TV hawking it for $59.95? You don't think every high schooler in America wouldn't buy such a device? Little Leaguer?
The inventor designed, built, and refined said hitting aide for the sole use of Barry Lamar Bonds?
I find that...........interesting.
As a follow up if its the Angular Momentum post I was writing my own version and then remembered that Wilipedia likely had a cleaner version.
But the Conservation of Angular Momentum is pretty standard stuff to any mechanical engineer worth his salt. As soon as this author used that example I thought some background would be of assistance.
Once upon a time I was a pretty decent engineer. I stink at electrical circuits however. I can handle basic stuff but as soon as things like isolation transformers get involved my head begins to swim........
Liquefied him, put him in a syringe, and injected him where the sun don't shine.
As for this article, I've done some research of my own, and confirmed that even with the Bonds' exercise program, nutritional program, pharmacological program, and mechanical swing enhancer, Rick Miller still couldn't hit a home run from second base.
ok. editorial control around here SUCKS. i understand that sometimes stupid articles can lead to good discussions, but it's annoying that people can submit their own work and have it linked in a highly prominent place (newsblog and NOW featured articles). there is a good deal of work to be done just correcting the morons in the mainstream media without people like this polluting the water. there's a reason you don't #### in your own backyard.
i mean THIS JACKASS DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ACCESS TO THE FREAKING ARM GUARD IN THE FIRST PLACE. he's analyzing it from video, if he's even doing that. i wouldn't be surprised if he and his friends were sitting around chugging beers and speculating about what this magical arm band does for bonds.
Hey, it was good enough for Bill Frist . . .
I linked the editor and publisher version of this on my blog, not because I agree with any of it (for all I know Barry's elbow is encased in fontina cheese and magic), but because I believe it will be talked about a lot. Indeed, I stumbled across it first when a decidedly casual baseball fan of a coworker emailed it to me this morning accompanied by some garden variety Bonds outrage.
On that basis I defend it being linked here, even if the linker was self-interested. This article may be thoroughly debunked or may not even be worthy of a debunking. But people at large will be talking about it, so I think it's worth the time and effort of BTF readers to chew it over a bit if for no other reason than to be prepared to point out it's flaws to others.
I know that sounds really elitist ("BTF folks are here to save the world from ignorance") but I'm guessing it truly is the case that most of us are the most knowledgable baseball folks in any random workplace or family reunion converstaion circle, right?
i will also defend the need to link to articles like this, no matter how poorly argued or researched. i just think that BTF should have a "your turn" or "your take" section where people can link their own blogs (and other people can link blogs they think are interesting). then, as i imagine it, blogs that become noteworthy can move up to the featured articles or newsblog as they demonstrate their worthiness. so, with you, i'm all for elitism on this site. there's a reason several prominent and highly intelligent posters have sworn off the site (Eric M. Van is one, if i'm not mistaken). let's not lose more because we dilute what we discuss.
i would rather see fewer articles of much higher quality linked (especially under featured articles) rather than filler (which is exactly what the newsblog is full of).
So Piehole is actually Eric Van?
Yeah, but using Rick Miller's training regimen, can Barry Bonds play hot surf-swamp fusion rock while wearing a Lance-cracker t-shirt and tossing fried chicken to an audience?
I know that sounds really elitist ("BTF folks are here to save the world from ignorance") but I'm guessing it truly is the case that most of us are the most knowledgable baseball folks in any random workplace or family reunion converstaion circle, right?
Probably, although I might choose the word "informed" over "knowledgable" but that is a quibble. Today, I have asked 12 people who consider themselves baseball fans,"Who was the only player on the field Saturday night at PETCO who has actually tested positive for steroids in the last two years?" including a guy who sees himself as the "expert" in our workplace and was explaining in detail to a rapt group why Bonds has "tainted" the record book. Only one--a woman who logs on to CNN.com every day saw it there coincidentally and is a very casual fan--knew the answer.
For the record, I think Bonds used and I support the testing program.
At BPro, Will Carroll (whose work I do not like very much, BTW) has an "Unfiltered" post up, saying he has been asked about it all day and will write about it tomorrow.
In this particular case, I found the letter Mike sent me interesting and told him I'd be happy to post it to the site. I also told him I'd be interested in reading the other research he's done. That's what I've done for years; that's what I'll continue to do.
What do I think of Mike's claims in this post? I'm not quite sure. I simply don't have enough information to form a definitive opinion. From what I've read on the interwebs today, I'm quite confident we'll be seeing more information on this topic. Regardless of the outcome, we'll learn something. And for that, I thank Mike and everyone who engages the topic.
and no, i'm not eric van. one reason he left though, iirc, is a signal-to-noise ratio decidedly tilting toward noise.
in any case, now that i know you've heard my suggestion for how to improve the site, i'll step down off my hobby horse. but please consider adding a "your take" or "your turn" section for stuff like this (especially for self-submitted material), and let the community decide. pretty please?
I've spent quite some time researching the question and have quite a few ideas to improve the situation. I'll soon begin testing those ideas in a new beta area I'm setting up. Unlike the last site re-design (which took place while I was transitioning into a new position at work and with a server gasping to keep up with traffic), I have more time, better programming skills, a much longer timeline, and much improved server resources. I'm very confident the site will be a much better place come next season.
Anyone interested in providing feedback will get the opportunity to help shape the direction of the site.
I don't think Van was ever a regular contributor to this site. That may be more true for Tango.
He used to contribute on Sox Therapy. His main contribution seemed to be the CFBPS, which if he didn't invent, he surely perfected.
i will be on the lookout for your call for feedback. i am full of ideas.
eric m van was a very regular contributor to baseball primer back in the day (on the old site). tango too. and voros disappeared after his job with the red sox, but that's understandable. don malcolm (who showed up recently) and others. all gone. we need those voices back.
Guess the young Nationals pitcher was throwing in the wrong plane tonight.
Anyhow...I play in an adult baseball league - anybody know where I can purchase one of these leverage machines? I'm an awful hitter.
-- MWE
Audio link
Even after listening to the interview over and over, it still sounds wrong as he says it. Was his arm just unnaturally large, I asked? "No, I don't think so," Silva said. "Rickey Henderson's arm is more muscular than any arm I've seen, as far as definition, and Mo Vaughn's not a very small guy either."
The article also alluded to but did not specifically state that Silva took precise caliper measurements of Bonds entire arm in order to create the negative cast used to create his protective device.
Really? Wouldn't this essentially be throwing the bat at the ball?
I'm going to guess he just looked at Bonds' established norms from the 90's and projected those into his post-2000 totals. I suppose he could have discounted his pre-2000 totals slightly as well.
DOes this mean that the batter's follow through is irrelevant?
You ever look at the thing? It clearly straps on around the bicep.
DOes this mean that the batter's follow through is irrelevant?
Pretty much. Except that it would be pretty damned hard to stop the bat at the instant of contact without decelerating it before contact, and that certainly wouldn't help matters.
there was an AP sports photo of Bonds lifting his shirt to wipe off sweat during the early batting practice last Saturday. Not a pretty sight. The man could lose 25 pounds easy.
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