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Thursday, January 03, 2002

The Race to 756

Some Home Run Lists

OK, it’s a new year, and since most everyone’s resolution seems to be to forget as much of the old year as possible, I thought I should oblige by steering us away from all that nasty talk of “spin” and “contraction.” Enough with the labor pains already—let’s talk about the game for a change.

And what better place to do so than to dash off a few home run lists that can orient us in what this column somewhat breathlessly calls “the race to 756”, or the pursuit of Hank Aaron’s all-time record for homers.

Now that Mark McGwire has retired, we’re down to two candidates with imminent opportunity to challenge Bad Henry. (I’ll leave it to those of you who enjoy such things to provide “Favorite Toy” probabilisms that add the presence of someone like Alex Rodriguez to the candidate list; I’m only interested in looking at players whose chance of taking a run at Aaron is something we’ll see in the next 4-7 years.)

And that means we’re looking at Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey, Jr.

As I said, I leave it to others to provide the Favorite Toy data for these two. I’m simply going to run some lists at you, make a few speculative remarks, and then take my red cape and step aside.

Let’s start with Bonds. We know that Barry is now safely ensconced in the Top Ten of all-time homer hitters, thanks in large part to his amazing 2001 season. A better context for Barry’s position relative to what his future final HR total might be, however, would be to look at a list of Most Home Runs Hit by Players Through the Age of 36:

Player HR

Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron
Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Mark McGwire
Harmon Killebrew
Mickey Mantle
Jimmie Foxx
Frank Robinson
Eddie Mathews

611
592
567
564
554
541
536
527
522
512

As we can see, Barry looks more like a contender on this list. However, with 189 HRs to go in order to catch Aaron, he’s going to have to hit 26 more HRs after the age of 36 than Hank did. The average number of homers hit after age 36 by the players on this list is 55. Barry’s almost certainly going to exceed that, but how many more he can likely hit is clearly lower than either the number he needs to catch Aaron or the number Aaron hit from age 37 on.

Which brings us to another relevant home run list. Here’s the Most Home Runs Hit by Players Aged 37 and Older:

Player HR

Hank Aaron
Darrell Evans
Carlton Fisk
Ted Williams
Carl Yastrzemski
Dave Winfield
Babe Ruth
Reggie Jackson
Hank Sauer
Willie Mays

163
152
146
127
114
108
103
99
97
96

So if Bonds cracks this list, he’ll at least wind up #3 all-time in HRs. That certainly seems to be the likely minimum, barring any unforeseen circumstances.

Now let’s turn to Junior. Moving to Cincinnati has apparently put a damper on the Griffey juggernaut, but going into 2002, Junior still ranks second on the list of Most Home Runs Hit by Players Through the Age of 31:

Player HR

Jimmie Foxx
Ken Griffey Jr.
Eddie Mathews
Mickey Mantle
Frank Robinson
Hank Aaron
Mel Ott
Harmon Killebrew
Willie Mays
Babe Ruth

464
460
422
419
403
398
388
380
368
356

Of course only one guy on this list actually hit more HRs after the age of 31 than he did through the age of 31. (Yes, that’s the Babe, and he just barely did it, with 358. We’ll see the top ten list for that in a minute or so.)

One more quick digression: Bonds ranks fourteenth on this list, with 334 HRs through age 31.

The average number of homers hit by the players on this list over the balance of their careers is 177. If Junior hit that average on the nose, it would mean two things: first, that average would likely whimper with pain; second, Junior’s lifetime HR total would wind up at 637.

Seriously, home run hitters don’t tend to age well. Beefy they may well be, but they’re more like chardonnay than cabernet sauvignon. However, there’s any number of guys who’ve hit more than 200 homers after the age of 31. (Well, it’s not any number; it’s actually eighteen.) Here’s the list of Most Home Runs Hit by Players Aged 32 and Older:

Player HR

Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron
Mark McGwire
Willie Mays
Reggie Jackson
Stan Musial
Darrell Evans
Hank Sauer
Mike Schmidt
Barry Bonds
Carlton Fisk
Willie Stargell
Dave Winfield
Ted Williams
Andre Dawson
Graig Nettles
Willie McCovey
Cy Williams

358
357
306
292
250
248
247
246
234
233*
232
231
229
228
213
210
208
202

*still active

If Junior cracks this list, he’ll have at least 662 HRs, which would put him past Willie Mays. He’d still be ~90 short of Aaron, however.

If Bonds matches Aaron and Ruth in post age-31 HRs, he’ll add about 125 HRs to his current total, which brings him in somewhere in the low 690s. In order to break Aaron’s mark, he’ll have to hit 422 HRs from age 32 on.

If he does that, he’ll join Ruth as the only player with 300+ HRs by age 31 to hit more homers after age 32. In order to get to that point, he has to hit another 102 HRs from here on out.

As I said, I’ll step aside and let the readers provide Favorite Toy projections for this (and feel free to include them for any intermediate steps, such as matching Mays’ 660 or the Babe’s 714 should that seem sufficiently interesting). What these lists appear to tell us, however, is that it’s far likelier that Bonds and Griffey will catch Mays than they will Aaron (and, for that matter, the Babe).

One last list, as a small hommage to Mark McGwire. Here are the Most Homers Hit by Players Aged 32-36:

Player HR

Mark McGwire
Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Wille Mays
Hank Aaron
Mike Schmidt
Harmon Killebrew
Stan Musial
Andre Dawson
Reggie Jackson

277
255
233
196
194
181
161
154
152
151

What an amazing run, eh? Notice, though, that Bonds pulled himself up to #3 on this list. And it will be interesting to see if Junior cracks it, because that will tell us more about his eventual place on the all-time list. And there’s one more slugger to keep an eye on: Sammy Sosa, with 64 homers last year and a five-year total of 279. To show you what a daunting task is ahead of even Sammy, however, consider that he has to hit 214 HRs in the next four years to pass McGwire on this list. That’s more than 53 HRs a season for the next four years. You number crunchers might want to calculate the odds on that, too, while you’re at it.

Don Malcolm Posted: January 03, 2002 at 12:00 AM | 6 comment(s)
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   1. Jim Posted: January 02, 2002 at 08:20 PM (#604655)
Does anyone have any numbers/opinions on Andruw Jones's chance of catching any of these guys?
   2. Robert Dudek Posted: January 02, 2002 at 08:20 PM (#604657)
According to Mark's odds, there is a 78.3% chance that at least one of the guys listed (Sammy, Junior, Barry, AROD or Vlad) will break the record.
   3. Don Malcolm Posted: January 03, 2002 at 08:20 PM (#604661)
Sorry for the brain cramp on Sammy’s position on the Age 31 list. Let's make up for it by posting one more list, which is the Most Homers Hit by Players Through Age 32:

Player HR
Jimmie Foxx 500
(Ken Griffey Jr. 460)
Mickey Mantle 454
Sammy Sosa 450
Eddie Mathews 445
Hank Aaron 442
Frank Robinson 418
Babe Ruth 416
Mel Ott 415
Willie Mays 406
</pre>

You have to put Junior on this list, because this is where he’d rank even if he missed the entire 2002 season. Sosa may be ten HRs behind Griffey right now in raw numbers, but Junior will almost certainly be perennially “ahead” of Sammy because he’s a year younger.

The eight retired players on this list averaged 164 HRs for the balance of their careers. Should Sammy hit that average, he’d wind up at 614 for his career, While it appears unlikely that he’ll taper off, keep in mind how rare it is for home run hitters to retain their peak skills. Bonds’ 2001 season is about as singular as you can get.

Babe Ruth held the record for most HRs at age 33 (Sammy’s age in 2002) for sixty-nine years with 54, until Mark McGwire hit 58 in 1997. Mark holds the record at ages 34 and 35, of course, and Bonds has it at 36. Hank Aaron has the record for age 37 (with 47 HRs; the only other two players to crack 40 at that age are Ruth and Hank Sauer); Darrell Evans holds the record at age 38, with 40 HRs, which is the same number Aaron hit at age 39.

It’s also a fact that the number of players at this age hitting 30+ homers tapers off very quickly and dramatically. Thirty-four hitters hit 30+ homers at age 33, while only nine did it at age 37.

Thanks for the Favorite Toy data, Mark. Now if someone can translate those percentages into an actual career-end estimate for Bonds, Griffey and Sosa, we’ll have some great talking points to kick around for the next several years.
   4. Don Malcolm Posted: January 03, 2002 at 08:21 PM (#604670)
OK, Larry Shiman has sent along an email pointing out a second brain cramp on the Most Homers Through the Age of 31 list, which involves the omission of Juan Gonzalez:

Player HR
Jimmie Foxx 464
Ken Griffey Jr. 460
Eddie Mathews 422
Mickey Mantle 419
Frank Robinson 403
Hank Aaron 398
Juan Gonzalez 397
Mel Ott 388
Sammy Sosa 386
Harmon Killebrew 380
</pre>

That should be the correct current Top Ten.

Very interesting stuff on the Toy vs. Brock2—exactly the kind of material I was hoping to see here. My recollection is that there’s a later version of the
Brock tool that Bill James never made available to the general public which is the basis for what STATS uses these days. The old Brock2 is very sensitive to yearly context, which is why Bonds does so well after hitting 73 HRs and Griffey does so poorly after hitting only 22.

Research in career projection tools is an area that needs a lot more work, and a lot more “open source” effort (to use a phrase recently applied to baseball research by Jim Furtado. Some of you guys who are demonstrating a lot of profiency with these HR projections might want to consider widening your sights—you might well come up with something that opens up some serious new ground.
   5. Jason Posted: January 07, 2002 at 08:21 PM (#604676)
My money is on Sammy, i for no other reason than a) he seems to be an ever-growing monster, sure to peak in the near future, but a monster none the less (unlike the apparently fragile Griffey), and b) the man will have no problem being a 45-year old DH.
   6. Bill Posted: January 07, 2002 at 08:21 PM (#604679)
I don't care if one of them DOES pass Aaron and Ruth. You all know as well as I know that home runs come awfully cheap these day. As far as I'm concerned, baseball has turned into a big joke as far as home runs are concerned. So Aaron will continue to be the home run champ and Ruth will continue to be in second place, NO MATTER WHO passes them with cheap home runs.
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