Not to point this out, but three players plus cash seems like a lot to give up for Dave Roberts.

Not that Jay Payton et al are much to write home about, but still.

This is a joke article, right? Dave Roberts was most recently acquired for a Rule 5 draftee (drafted off the Padres roster, no less) and spent the majority of his time in Boston pinch running. No need to send multiple players and cash for him.

ARE YOU KIDDING? Towers got raped here. ####. Payton is a defensive superstar. Vazquez is one of the best utility infielders out there (I bet he puts up an OBP within 10 points of Renteria). And then a minor leaguer and Towers is paying them. FOR DAVE ROBERTS?!?!?! ####. Thank you Kevin. You ######.

It does seem like a lot for just Roberts. But Roberts is a plus defender, a good hitter for a CF, and a plus baserunner. He's better than Payton. The other 2 make up the difference I suppose (Vazquez is supposedly lousy defensively).

Now, this is a F-CKING A trade for Theo.

How is it so great? The Sox got a worse CF (though better for their needs), a utility IF, and a C+/B- TNSTAAPP. They also probably took on a little cash. It looks pretty even to me.

Vazquez' UZRs suggest he'll never be a major league regular at any position. He would be an ok backup IF, but he's nothing special.

Jay Payton, as noted, is the King of UZR. Righty, some pop, great glove, absolutely perfect 4th OF for Boston. It's a small move, but I like it a lot.

Roberts' speed, defense, and just enough OBP shoulfd be a great match for the big ballpark in San Diego. I'll be rooting for him.

Roberts...At this point in my career, I need to continue to play and develop as a baseball player

hehe

Roberts is a bona fidee post season hero.

No price is too high for the intangibles he brings.

Darren, I only said that because the Yankee fans on this thread appear truly pissed off. In all honesty, I'd rather have Payton over Roberts. But the Padres panicked when Payton went MIA in that huge park in SD and Freddy Guzman showed everyone he wasn't the second coming of Juan Pierre.

"But Roberts is a plus defender, a good hitter for a CF, and a plus baserunner."

Roberts seems to me like a player who gets overwhelmed when he plays full time. He thrived last year as a 4th outfielder and I think if he's removed from that role, he won't hit nearly as well. He also might not hit a single HR in Petco all year. Payton also has a higher career EQA (and had a good year in 03 (.275 EQA)) and is a better defender. I think Payton for Roberts would have been a fair trade, with the Red Sox getting the better end. This is awful.

Michael Kay..."If Dave Roberts hadn't stolen that base..."

He wouldn't be involved in a 3 for 1 deal.

I agree with J#1F here. (See, we can agree on stuff.)

But Payton makes tiwce what Roberts makes and Roberts has been a better hitter in recent years (I think). Plus the baserunning. I don't have UZR handy, so there may be a significant defensive difference that I'm missing.

I guess Kenny Williams (Carlos Lee) drove up the price on speed.

Darren, the Padres are sending cash to BOS so the salaries are probably a wash. And I'd think that Payton is as good, if not better, as measured by UZR. I think Theo got a major steal here.

"I agree with J#1F here. (See, we can agree on stuff.)"

Absolutely, outside of our opinions on a particurlar player of course.

"But Payton makes tiwce what Roberts makes and Roberts has been a better hitter in recent years "

Well, recent year. Remember, Roberts blew in 03. Blew hard. Plus, the Sox are actually getting cash, from the Padres. That just seems silly to me.

Given that Cabrera just got 4 years, $32 Million from the Los Anaheim Angels, it is clear that Post Season Intangible Mojo is indeed a very valuable commodity.

Yeah, I don't understand why the PAdres gave up so much to get Roberts. At the same time, watching Jay Payton, I can't believe that he would be a defensive superstar. I usually trust UZR but damn.

Absolutely, outside of our opinions on a particurlar player of course.

OK, I'll stop bad-mouthing John Rocker.

I'm guessing the Sox are getting enough cash to make the two sides even, meaning their payroll is going up slightly.

EQAs by year:

Player 02 03 04
Roberts 276 246 273
Payton 280 275 251

It looks too close to call there. I'm a little suspicous because a lot of Payton's goodness has come in Coors.

Um.

Ugh.

"OK, I'll stop bad-mouthing John Rocker."

HAHAHA, that was pretty funny.

"Whaaa? IIRC, he was outrighted to the minors last year - any team in baseball could have had him."

I was basing that more on his consecutive .340 OBP seasons then last year. I didn't realize he fell off the planet. Still I think the 850 abs in 02 and 03 is more indicative of his talent then his 100+ last year. I bet he rebounds nicely.

Fellas,

Intangibles are worth 1.75-5.25 million/year, depending on the time and circumstances of the intagibleness. In this case, I would rate Roberts' intangible goodness at approximately 3.5 million/year given the magnitude of his intangible achievement in 2004. I see he has an IZR (Intangible Zone Rating) of 25.2, which is, of course, off the charts, which means King Theo got rooked by Big Daddy Towers.

If there was one base that needed to be stolen, and the weight of a franchise lay in the balance, I'd want Dave Roberts every time. That is an intangible worth having, because you just never know when that situation will pop up... but when it does, see, now you have your bases covered.

Brilliant... dare I say brilliantly sublime move here by Kevin Towers.

For those who are about to be intangible, I salute thee!

Your pal,
Larry

If there was one base that needed to be stolen, and the weight of a franchise lay in the balance, I'd want Dave Roberts every time.

I just watched the NESN DVD this evening.

That stolen base was totally awesome. If it were decreed that I should be forced to perform deviant sexual acts on a stolen base, I would choose that stolen base.

It is so decreed!

It's not really fair to say the Padres are sending cash as part of this deal; it's to offset Payton's $4M salary.

That said, I don't think that Roberts is better than Payton, but apparently Bochy and Towers do.

Vazquez is a terrific utility infielder. His raw number look OK, but look at his platoon splits: he's a 280/370/370 type against RHP. I think he slept with Bochy's wife, though, because Bochy does not trust him one bit and wanted him gone.

Vinay,

I can't speak for Vazquez, but I can tell you I wouldn't sleep with Bochy's wife, and I sure as hell hope Vasquez has the ****ing sense to not do it, either.

Another intangible worth having: knowing which teammates' wife to sleep with.

Your pal,
Larry

Just wanted to see what would do.
Consider my curiousity sated.