Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Quote Blog > Discussion
Baseball Quote Blog
— Unearthing Quotes from Baseball's Past

Sunday, April 23, 2006

Power and Speed: A rare and valued combination!

I was thumbing through the August ‘83 issue of The Baseball Digest, when I stumbled over an article titled “Power and Speed: A rare and valued combination! It really wasn’t an exciting article, but it was all over the place.  It talked about the previous year’s world champion Cardinals team, and its speed.  It had a number of quote from Whitey Herzog, talking his theory of team building.  He talked about how he would love to have great hitters - “You don’t think I’d love to have an Andrew Dawson, Buddy Bell or George Brett?”.  It also had some quotes from Whitey that were ahead of his time “There are a lot of ingredients you can put together to win.  The most obvious and dominant thing you can have is the great relief pitcher.”

The article goes on to talk about building a team to your home park, as Herzog said if he managed the Red Sox he would be out looking for power hitters.  The article covered a lot ground, but I haven’t gotten to what I thought was interesting.  While now reading a mainstream article and seeing Bill James quotes and Bill James invented statistics isn’t that uncommon - but but in the early 80’s it was.  A full page of stats showing “Bill James Power/Speed Numbers” - The 1982 leader, All Time Single Season Bests, Active Career Leaders, and All-Time Leaders, accompanied the article.  I was very surprised to see that.  I was even more surprised when reading the article, the author cited a Bill James study to elaborate a point made by Steve Boros then manager of the A’s. 

“The ideal,” sats Oakland manager Steve Boros, who has studied speed and base-steeling to great degrees, “isn’t speed of power by itself (Bill James calculated that, since 1969, the average team with the most stolen bases has finished in 2.75th place, the team with the most home runs in 2.43rd place, and the team with the most runs scored 2.11 place).

“You can’t win with only stolen bases. Few teams win with only power, because they eventually can be pitched to. The great modern teams had a blend of speed and power. The Oakland A’s of 1972-74, the Cincinnati Reds of 1975-76 and the Yankees in 1977-78. But those were great teams. The rest of us adapt to what we have.

While none of this all that ground breaking 23 years latter, it was interesting to me that all of this was written by a writer who historically has been lambasted on this site for not have a clue about sabrmetrics.  Well maybe he doesn’t, but I’m amazed that Peter Gammons was writing about Bill James in August of 83 - I certainly didn’t expect to see it.

Mister High Standards Posted: April 23, 2006 at 05:11 PM | 8 comment(s)
  Related News: Sabermetrics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Mike Emeigh Posted: April 23, 2006 at 05:45 PM (#1984305)
“You don’t think I’d love to have an Andrew Dawson, Buddy Bell or George Brett?”


Which of these things is not like the others?

-- MWE
   2. Insert clever/punny handle here (oi!) Posted: April 23, 2006 at 05:54 PM (#1984320)
Well, I've never heard of Andrew Dawson.

And Buddy Bell is the only one of the three to be a major league manager.

And I think George Brett had a better batting average than the other two.

So they're all not like the others. What do I win?
   3. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 07, 2006 at 11:46 AM (#2008524)
Which of these things is not like the others?

I think I know where you're going, but it's mere hindsight. In '83, Buddy Bell was coming off seven straight years of batting .280 or better with a bit of pop, he was in a fielding class with Nettles and Schmidt, and (for us saber-types) coming off three years of OPS+ of 142/133/126.
   4. Nasty Nate Posted: May 07, 2006 at 12:54 PM (#2008569)
On a tangent: Does Baseball Digest still exist? I had a subscription when I was a kid. But then the strike of 1994 happened, and they made absolutely no mention of it. Like it didnt exist. That was enough for me.
   5. JPWF13 Posted: November 13, 2006 at 03:12 PM (#2236573)
Well maybe he doesn’t, but I’m amazed that Peter Gammons was writing about Bill James in August of 83 - I certainly didn’t expect to see it.


James actually contributed articles in the late 70s and early 80s to Baseball Digest- and has historically said nice things about Gammons, but still 1983 is earlier than I thought Gammons would know of James' existence...

FWIW I became aware of James' existence because I had a subscription to Baseball Digest in the 70s early 80s- I was a little suprised that James later wrote off the publication as irrelevant and out of touch- it was, but it (as far as I know) gave him his first visible paying gigs as a Baseball writer.

Anyway, James had not yet become a lightning rod, the face of sabrmetrics to the wider baseball community- because it had no face yet, not until the Abstracts reached high up on the best seller lists a few times- and James declared war on Elias and Seymour Siwoff- and baseball broadcasters completely out of the blue began mentioning Elias, saying they did a great job, saying Seymour was a great guy (did any of them ever meet him) and saying oh, "here are Joe Blow's official numbers with men batting in scoring position with two outs on the second Tuesdays of every month provided by Elias Sports Bureau, who do a swell job"-
   6. danup Posted: November 27, 2006 at 06:21 PM (#2246805)
Yes, the Baseball Digest is still around. It's pretty useless--it mostly seems to exist as a way for people who don't know about Retrosheet to get box scores of games they went to or famous ones they were thinking about the other day and decided to send a letter about.
   7. Gary Geiger Counter Posted: November 28, 2006 at 11:22 AM (#2247351)
Yes, the Baseball Digest is still around. It's pretty useless--it mostly seems to exist as a way for people who don't know about Retrosheet to get box scores of games they went to or famous ones they were thinking about the other day and decided to send a letter about.


I imagine that their demographic skews old. Kuenster's gotta be, what, 90 now? I think that Hal Bodley idolized him while he was growing up.
   8. Repoz Posted: November 28, 2006 at 11:45 AM (#2247387)
What's even more shocking is when you find that Bill James was an associate editor/"Records" columnist ("Current Measure of Offense is Inadequate") for Baseball Magazine (79-82?)...along side Primer pal, the terminally open-shirted Dandy Dan Schlossberg!

Also on board were Keith Olberman...Book Reviews!
Curt Smith...Tv/Radio
Murray Chass
Bill Madden...Senior Editor...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAsomebodystopmebeforeihurtmyselfHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Hal Bock
Don Honig
Peter Golenbock
Tracy Ringolsby
and others...
Page 1 of 1 pages

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

My Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Vivid Seats is a sports ticket broker, concert ticket broker and theater ticket broker offering the best baseball tickets like Yankees tickets, Cubs tickets, and Red Sox tickets, as well as Police reunion tour tickets and Jersey Boys tickets.

Ticket Nest sells Braves, Cubs, Padres, Indians, Marlins, Nuts, Pirates, Rangers, Patriots, Royals, Stars, Tides, Tigers, Twins, Phillies, Wings, Mets, Yankees, Angels, Dodgers tickets, and Dragons tickets.

Buy Cheap MLB Tickets

Concerts Theatre NFL Angels Dodgers MLB Celtics Theater NBA Tickets Venues NHL Lakers Tickets NFL Yankees NHL Phillies NBA Wicked Marlins MLB Concerts Cubs Mets Red Sox Wicked WWE Red Sox Mets Yankees Dodgers

Page rendered in 2.0087 seconds
61 querie(s) executed