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Wednesday, May 25, 2005

Baseball Prospectus 2005

In general terms, Baseball Prospectuses, published annually, are books of comments about major and minor league ballplayers that to use statistical analysis as the foundation for the comments. In the 2005 edition, player comments occupy about 420 of the book’s 570 or so pages. Another 80 or so pages comprise small essays on the major league teams; the player comments for a team’s players follow that team’s essay. The remaining 70 or so pages contain a very skimpy introduction, a few small statistical essays, a list of Top Prospects (according to the Prospectus writers’ collective), and an index of players with the page number containing each player’s comment. There is no general index, nor a glossary of terms.

Unfortunately, Prospectus has a fatal flaw, which it has had since its inception in the 1990s and which it has not corrected to this day. The flaw really is fatal; it renders Prospectus all but useless to serious baseball analysts. Worse, the flaw all but ensures that whatever analysis Prospectus does will be out of date; the book will never be on the cutting edge as long as it has this flaw.

So, what is this fatal flaw? Baseball Prospectus does not publish its methods, nor the standards that its analysts use to evaluate them. As a consequence, the reader cannot know what the statistical material in Prospectus actually means, nor how to compare it to anyone else’s results.

The flaw renders Prospectus absolutely useless to the casual baseball fan. I tried the book out on a test audience of a couple of such, and they found it to be incomprehensible. Prospectus does not publish actual raw baseball stats for the players; instead, it uses stats that have been massaged by the writer/analysts. It does not explain what methods the analysts use, and the methods are not obvious. In the comments and essays themselves, the writers continually refer to other unexplained stat massaging methods and use a lot of insider terminology for which there is no glossary. The house writing style - individual writers for the player and team comments are not credited - relies heavily on cheap sarcasm, insider terminology, and very obscure analogies from outside of baseball. (The Elementals comic book?)

You fantasy fans won’t find anything here, either. Prospectus claims to be analyzing real baseball, not any of the fantasy simulations, so you don’t get any numbers that are directly useful, like you do in John Benson’s books. There are projections for players for the 2005 season, but they are unreliable, especially in estimating playing time for minor leaguers about to make the big leagues. Nick Swisher, the A’s top pick in the Moneyball draft, is predicted to have 327 at-bats in 2005, as a center fielder. Last I heard, the A’s plan to start Swisher in right field, in which case, 327 AB is too low. On the other hand, they assign 176 AB to Jeremy Brown, presumably as the A’s backup catcher for Jason Kendall. Kendall has never left that many AB for his backup. On top of that, Brown, who was hurt last year, will very very likely be the A’s starting catcher in AAA ball, to get experience. He has no chance of getting 176 AB as a late-season callup behind Kendall.

As for the effect of unrevealed methods and standards, here’s what I’m talking about, using the old Bill James Abstracts for comparison. Bill started out with a method for determining how many batting runs a batter had contributed to the team effort, by massaging the batter’s component stats, such as singles, homers, strikeouts, etc. The earliest, simplest version of this method amounted to On Base Percentage times Slugging Percentage times At Bats; Bill called this “Runs Created.” I know what the formula is - OBP x SLG x AB - because Bill published it in his books (Bill broke it down into smaller components, but his RC is algebraically equivalent to my version).

Bill also told his readers what standard he used to decide that this was the best Runs Created method he had devised.  He would take an entire team’s component stats for a season, use the formula to estimate the team’s runs scored for the year, and then compare his formula’s results to the number of runs that the team actually did score. He did this for a lot of team seasons and then computed the standard deviation, which is the normal statistical measure for how close a formula gets to the actual numbers. The smaller this standard deviation was, the better the Runs Created formula. That is, the standard was “smallest standard deviation of estimated to actual team season runs scored.” This, too, he printed in his books.

The result of this was that a reader could evaluate Bill’s work for himself. If you wanted to try to dream up a better RC formula than Bill’s, you knew what Bill’s formula was, and you knew what standard he used to determine accuracy. If your formula had a smaller standard deviation than Bill’s, you had a better formula. And most important of all, if you sent Bill a letter with your formula, and he checked your math and your standard deviation was indeed smaller, he’d print YOUR formula in HIS book, and use it!

It was this access to Bill’s methods, standards, and forum that actually produced the revolution in baseball analysis now commonly associated with the book Moneyball. That’s because the access empowered Bill’s entire readership, turning them into a real community of scholars. With Bill, you were on firm ground, and never thought that his work was opaque or that yours was futile or redundant. You understood Bill’s work, you could avoid re-inventing his wheels, and you had standards to evaluate your efforts. Many people participated, and the field improved its results by leaps and bounds.

Contrast this to Baseball Prospectus 2005. The book has a morass of methods, none of which are presented in full formula fashion, much less with standards for judging accuracy. There is something called VORP, which supposedly evaluates both batting and pitching (though, oddly, not defense). It claims to adjust for everything from the strengths of individual minor leagues to, for all I know, the phases of the moon. But how? There’s no formula. How accurately? There’s no standard.

So, how can you decide whether you think VORP is worth using? You can’t. How can you determine whether you have a more accurate method? You can’t. How can you write a letter demonstrating that you have a more accurate method that Prospectus can use next year? You can’t. You can’t even do simple things like decide if you agree with Prospectus on what the replacement rate is for injured major league players. VORP is based on the concept of replacement rate (it stands for Value Over Replacement Player), but Prospectus never tells you what they think the replacement rate might be.

And all that means that VORP is essentially useless to you as a reader. So is PECOTA, the Prospectus method for projecting players into the future. The formula(s) aren’t there, nor are the standards. The back cover of the book claims that PECOTA is “exclusive (and deadly accurate),” but only one of those claims - “exclusive” - is verifiable. PECOTA is certainly exclusive; no one outside of the Prospectus crowd knows how to work it. But accurate? By what standard? Who knows?

But worse, the exclusivity means that no one except the Prospectus guys can even try to improve on either VORP or PECOTA, nor any other exclusive Prospectus methods. There’s no robust community of scholarly readers helping out. So what happens? Prospectus’ methods fall further and further behind the openly published methods. Further and further behind the cutting edge. Out of date, in addition to useless.

The nadir is the Top Prospects section. Each player gets a little essay and a few stat lines. But the stat lines make no sense. For example, Dallas McPherson, prospect #4, gets, among others, stats labeled “AVG” - presumably batting average - for the years 2003 and 2004. These are .253 and .256, respectively. Well, the lowest batting average that McPherson accumulated in 2003 and 2004, at any stop at any level, was .308. Obviously, the Prospectus AVG stats are not McPherson’s raw batting averages. What are they? Who knows? Major League Equivalencies of some kind? Maybe, but what kind? What’s the formula? There is no explanation of the stat lines anywhere in the book.

McPherson, like the other prospects, also gets a line labeled “5-Year WARP Trend,” which lists five numbers. Again, what does that mean? Who knows? Again, there’s no explanation. As a veteran sabermetrician, I might guess that WARP stands for Wins Above Replacement Player, but does that help? No. There’s no definition in the book of what Prospectus believes a replacement player to be worth, much less how Prospectus actually calculates player Wins. Without a baseline, a list of wins becomes just another set of unverifiable numbers. Worse, there’s no indication of which five years the trend covers. 2003 through 2007? 2005 through 2009? Who knows? Prospectus doesn’t tell us. And the casual fan has no chance of guessing what WARP stands for, even if my guess is correct.

I should mention one more feature of Baseball Prospectus 2005: the constant mention of the Prospectus web site. Frequently, the web site is cited as the place to go for further information on the methods in the book. I did not check the web site out; I was assigned to review a book. It apparently is at least partially a for-pay site, as the book mentions “profits” from it, but there is also mention of free stuff. I have no idea if methods and standards are actually fully presented on the web site, or if they are on the free or pay portion.

I will, however, say this: If you have to go to the web site to make use of the book, then the book is, essentially, an advertisement for the web site. I don’t know about you, but I am not accustomed to paying for advertisements. I expect advertising to pay for things like TV programming, not the other way around. The book costs $17.95 this year. The web site’s url is printed on the back cover. You can copy it down for free. Why buy the useless advertisement?

In actual fact, you cannot really call Baseball Prospectus 2005 an “analysis” book at all, because readers cannot approach it as analysis. All you can do is take the Prospectus authors’ word for their results. You have to take them on faith. You have to take them as - religion. Word from on high that you are not allowed to verify. The peer group of books for Baseball Prospectus 2005 is not Bill James’ Abstracts, nor his more recent Win Shares, which spends page upon page carefully detailing its methods and standards. Nor is the peer group any of the other fine baseball analysis publications that have appeared over the years. No, the peer group for Prospectus comprises works like the Bible, the Koran, and the Vedas. Books whose pronouncements you have to take on faith. Books that, however many truly wonderful characteristics they may have, are useless for analyzing baseball.

Brock Hanke Posted: May 25, 2005 at 01:24 PM | 54 comment(s)
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   1. Stump Merrill Posted: May 25, 2005 at 02:40 PM (#1360854)
I am agnostic with regard to the usefulness of Prospectus, but that was a great review.
   2. Chuck Nobriga Posted: May 25, 2005 at 04:17 PM (#1361085)
Brock,
You should visit the Baseball Prospectus website and and then peruse their glossary. You might change some of your opinions of the book after you've done that. I know this isn't the easiest way to work the book, but it cuts down on the boring to read things that go along with their formulas.
   3. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2005 at 05:47 PM (#1361303)
wow, you really hate prospectus don't you.

lets see, a few things from prospectus that have been useful, the catchers defensive article a few years back which is the only legitimate attempt I have seen to fairly evaluate the value of steals or steal attempts.

and the player articles is some of the best things I read, I love the prospectus series of books for the simple fact that they do give you a paragraph(not a "pass") on each player they rate.

I hate them, for much of the reason that I hate a lot of statistical guys is that they have an insane fascination that the players are always right, and the owners are always wrong. (and the fact that TLR/Duncan are evil and cox/mazzone are god...guess we need a main stream writer to call cox a genius before he gets scrutnized to the same level)
   4. Danny Posted: May 25, 2005 at 05:49 PM (#1361310)
Prospectus does not publish actual raw baseball stats for the players; instead, it uses stats that have been massaged by the writer/analysts.

Uh, haven't they published the raw numbers for a couple years now?
   5. The definitely immoral Eric Enders Posted: May 25, 2005 at 05:54 PM (#1361319)
I agree they should publish the formulas, but to state that it renders Prospectus "absolutely useless to the casual baseball fan" is a pretty silly thing to say. Replace "casual" with "extremely serious" and you might have a reasonable point. Casual fans don't care about sabermetric formulas.

Also, a minor correction; the following statement is false:

Prospectus does not publish actual raw baseball stats for the players; instead, it uses stats that have been massaged by the writer/analysts.

It publishes a combination of the two, and actually publishes more raw stats than massaged ones. In BP 2005, for hitters, there are 12 raw statistical categories for each player and six "massaged" ones. For pitchers, there are 8 categories of raw stats and 8 "massaged."

Whenever I read an article that's this venomous regarding a relatively mundane subject, I start to wonder if there are hidden axes to grind. The fact that Primer and Prospectus have feuded in the past doesn't help, either.
   6. The Balls of Summer Posted: May 25, 2005 at 05:56 PM (#1361326)
In my opinion, this year's edition is the worst so far, but not because they do not have a detailed explanation of every concept in the book. It's because they seem to have decided that the player comments is the place to make cheap jokes rather than give analysis about the player in question. This is the first year that I have not read the book cover-to-cover.

I don't think that it is too much to ask a reader to visit a website for more detail about the concepts in an annual publication. That would be a fair standard for a one-time publication, but an annual should be subject to different rules, as they are devising new concepts and stats every year. I don't need them to rehash everything they have done in each edition.
   7. Cris E Posted: May 25, 2005 at 06:03 PM (#1361342)
The raw stats are a mixed bag though. They include the ones that are sabrmetrically kosher like K, BB, HR and leave out W-L-Sv, which can be off-putting to the casual fan. I think the raw rate stats are there, but generally the raw info is only there to illuminate the projections, not paint a complete picture.

I agree with tBoS that referring to a website for background info is OK, especially when they aren't going to tell you the specifics anyway.

BP isn't what they once were, but I think the review had a little too much heat.
   8. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2005 at 06:31 PM (#1361402)
not sure why they need to include raw stats, they are assuming a few things, this is a company that to the best of my knowledge started as a web site and branched out to books(I may be wrong, but from what I do know their website is linked very heavily with their book) they can make a few safe assumptions, that people reading their book have web access, people reading their book have access to the raw data, why repeat data that is easily accessible?
   9. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: May 25, 2005 at 06:31 PM (#1361403)
If you have to go to the web site to make use of the book, then the book is, essentially, an advertisement for the web site.

I agree with this, to an extent, but that's how the book always was to me: something that had to be considered in tandem with the website content. I evaluate it on that basis.

I enjoyed BPro 2005 more than the books the previous few years; in fact, I had nearly passed on purchasing this year's edition. I'm glad I did.

The big problem BPro has developed, IMO, is that their analysis has grown more and more insular, and often seems out of touch with the sabermetric community at large. I think the fact that they haven't produced their own PBP defensive metric, for instance, or made more than passing reference to UZR, is a large disappointment. And, even using their online glossary, much of WARP (the timeline adjustment) and VORP remains in the shadows.
   10. Walt Davis Posted: May 25, 2005 at 06:53 PM (#1361450)
The argument that being closed source means they'll be behind the times doesn't hold water for me either. I'm as big a fan of open source as anybody, but one "drawback" is that the closed source guys can "steal" from the open source guys anytime they want. The reverse of course is not true.

If BPro's doing their job (which I'll admit I have doubts about), they're keeping their stuff that works better and constantly tweaking the open source stuff that's better.

In agreement with Brock, PECOTA has not been well explained (unless they've done something since the original couple articles). I'm pretty sure I know what they're doing ... and it's probably OK but not perfect ... and I'd be shocked if it's "deadly accurate."

Actually one of the nice things about PECOTA is that it's much more upfront about its lack of accuracy -- it gives you something close to a confidence interval; it openly admits (while claiming it as a feature) that there's a 20% chance this guy tanks even though they project him to be pretty good; etc. I'm not sure it's doing a good job on those projections, but at least they're trying.

And haven't there been a couple articles that looked at the MSE of PECOTA projections, etc? And hasn't Tango done some comparisons to other methods?

I stopped buying Prospectus a couple years ago. As far as I'm concerned, its only use is the numbers. There were sometimes good essays, but these guys have no more special insight into Dallas McPherson than what you can get for free here at BTF (gotta love open source).
   11. Nate Silver Posted: May 25, 2005 at 06:59 PM (#1361468)
This review is irresponsible, to put it gently. There are a number of points that really need to be made here, but I'll trust the readership to take care of that and will instead focus on Brock's claims about transparency.

In particular, the suggestion that the methodology for VORP is not publicly available is completely wrong. The derivation of VORP is described IN DETAIL here and here. Couple that with Keith's extended essay in the 2002 annual, which explains exactly how the replacement level bar is established, and it would be possible to reverse engineer VORP with relatively little effort and almost 100% accuracy, if one were so inclined. Equivalent Average, our defensive metrics, Pitcher Abuse Points, SNWL ... all of these things have been explained in great detail at various points in time.

It is true that PECOTA isn't completely transparent, although I've described virtually all of the essential aspects of its methodology in various columns, chats, and book essays over the past couple of years. But that's obscuring the point. We ARE running Baseball Prospectus as a for-profit enterprise. If that's the accusation here, it isn't breaking any news. We aren't abashed about trying to protect our intellectual property in certain places, particularly given that federal patent law doesn't apply neatly to something like PECOTA.

By the way, one of the things we are very conscientious about, given that our livelihoods depend entirely on the trust of our customers, is to make sure that everything that we publish meets a standard of objectivity and accuracy. If something like this review appeared even for a nanosecond at Baseball Prospectus, it would be remedied with an apology, and the person responsible for it would be fired.
   12. jonm Posted: May 25, 2005 at 07:00 PM (#1361472)
Other than the mistake about raw stats and the unjustified refusal to look at the web site, I think that this review is fair (and that comes from someone who enjoys the Prospectus). The fact that they don't publish their methods is hostile to the spirit of open-minded empiricism, the spirit that used to dominate sabermetrics. It is sad -- sort of a "fencing of the commons" effect.

What I would like to see is a greater sense of accountability to temper the sometime arrogance of the analyses. From year to year, it would be interesting to acknowledge, re-visit and consider what went wrong with the previous years' analyses.
   13. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2005 at 07:15 PM (#1361521)
how can you think the review is fair? he doesn't mention the book at all in his review, he mentions the methodology and that is about it.
   14. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: May 25, 2005 at 07:44 PM (#1361658)
I was wrong to mention VORP as being somewhat in the shadows a few posts ago. However, the timeline/difficulty adjustments between WARP1 and WARP3 are a bit of a mystery to me.
   15. bigcpa Posted: May 25, 2005 at 07:47 PM (#1361667)
I haven't seen hostility like that since Bill Plaschke sang "Where have gone Alex Cora?" in every LA Times column this offseason.

I read the annual BP for the team overviews first and foremost. The reviewer has nothing critical to say here other than that they're not credited. Well it just so happens to be the smartest and well-informed stuff I can find on the state of each organization.

>>> All you can do is take the Prospectus authors’ word for their results

I've seen historical tests of PECOTA somewhere but I would like a more accessible summary of hits/misses from past editions. BP is not shy about touting their early calls on Pujols, Santana etc. I'd like to see a feature on "one's we missed."
   16. Adam S Posted: May 25, 2005 at 08:11 PM (#1361780)
This review is written with the air of someone who wanted to grind an axe. It is sloppy beyond belief not to log on to the website once in the course of writing this to ascertain what parts of the information you are complaining about are readily available for free.

I will, however, say this: If you have to go to the web site to make use of the book, then the book is, essentially, an advertisement for the web site. I don’t know about you, but I am not accustomed to paying for advertisements. I expect advertising to pay for things like TV programming, not the other way around. The book costs $17.95 this year. The web site’s url is printed on the back cover. You can copy it down for free. Why buy the useless advertisement?

The book comntains a lot of informative and entertaining material that is not on the website. If you want to take issue with the team and player comments then that is fine but it is silly to ignore the stuff that is half or more of the reson that people buy the book.

You fantasy fans won’t find anything here, either. Prospectus claims to be analyzing real baseball, not any of the fantasy simulations, so you don’t get any numbers that are directly useful, like you do in John Benson’s books.

On a specific, I've used PECOTA numbers in my fantasy planning for a couple of years and found them helpful. Like anything, you don't want to put too much weight on them alone - for example, you need to remember that ray durham will have nagging injuries no matter what the projection - but show me anyone or thing that is foolproof.

There are projections for players for the 2005 season, but they are unreliable, especially in estimating playing time for minor leaguers about to make the big leagues. Nick Swisher, the A’s top pick in the Moneyball draft, is predicted to have 327 at-bats in 2005, as a center fielder. Last I heard, the A’s plan to start Swisher in right field, in which case, 327 AB is too low.

The playing time projections for prospects are pretty silly and BP would do well to look at them. Better to say what they think the player would do if thrown in the majors full time rather than produce a spuriously accurate number. (The playing time projections for established players serve more as a proxy for injury risk, which is somewhat more useful)

No, the peer group for Prospectus comprises works like the Bible, the Koran, and the Vedas. Books whose pronouncements you have to take on faith. Books that, however many truly wonderful characteristics they may have, are useless for analyzing baseball.

Hold on. Can't I look back at the end of the year and work out how accurate I think the projections were? They are putting their neck on the line with specific predictions about forthcoming events. Looks pretty accountable to me. if the results are crap, don't buy it next year.
   17. Jim Wisinski Posted: May 25, 2005 at 08:19 PM (#1361815)
Nice review. He simply forgot to mention what he thought of the essays, what he thought of the analysis of the players, what he thought of their writeups on the prospects, what he thought of the accuracy of the projections and the type of things they projected, didn't mention the extensive park factors list, had no opinion about the quality of the team essays...I could go on and on.

All it stated was that the writer doesn't like the fact that the book requires you to be familiar with the BP website. He is correct, to a casual fan or one with no knowledge of Baseball Prospectus the book isn't that useful. It's not like they're hiding that fact, it's not a book that just anyone can pick up and understand completely. That deserves a mention in the beginning, maybe one or two sentences.

This isn't even a book review, it's just a long-winded slam at Prospectus by someone that doesn't know anything about them. It's great that BTF is Open Source but that doesn't mean it needs to post every piece of trash that someone writes for it.

Is Prospectus close to perfect? Not at all. They do make too many sarcastic or insulting comments, sometimes barely even talking about the player. They sometimes put too much faith in their stats being accurate, particularly their defensive ones which are of limited accuracy. They do excellent work though and for the most part have intelligent, well written analysis. They generally aren't afraid to look back at stuff from the past and admit they were wrong.

The writer mentioned it being a pay site, but all the stuff he's complaining about (which is the stats and definitions) is available for free, only a few stat reports are subscription only.
   18. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: May 25, 2005 at 08:41 PM (#1361931)
Speaking of the BPro stats, I'd love to see more of the baserunning stats they conjured in this year's book. I thought that was a terrific article, and would love to see those number on the DT cards and also updated during the season. It would be interesting to compare the BPro baserunning numbers to those made available by MGL.
   19. Dag Nabbit Posted: May 25, 2005 at 08:52 PM (#1361985)
The flaw really is fatal; it renders Prospectus all but useless to serious baseball analysts.

......

The flaw renders Prospectus absolutely useless to the casual baseball fan.


Yet it keeps selling well year after year.

I did not check the web site out; I was assigned to review a book. It apparently is at least partially a for-pay site

Here's one part I found perplexing. It's like the author of the book review was (at best) only dimly aware of prospectus's website. If that's the case why was he assigned to review the book?

I remember in the old Abstracts were James would have a glossary or index or whatever it was exactly called in the back where he'd give you the math behind the power/speed index, or similarity scores, or the favorite toy or whatever. If Bill James started publishing his abstracts nowadays, would he put that info in a glossary or just put it on a website. I gotta figure most people didn't read those parts and it could save a little on publishing costs. Plus it would be available year after year.
   20. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2005 at 08:58 PM (#1362008)
what I find funny is how many stat books publish the methodology they use to get Batting average, ERA etc? some do, some don't assuming that the reader has some insight into how the numbers came about. now I imagine that EQA, pecota and other numbers may require an entire book...heck Bill James introduced win shares in his new historical baseball abstract and didn't cover the methodology, you had to buy another book called win shares for the math.
   21. Jack Burdock sans 1883 Posted: May 25, 2005 at 09:17 PM (#1362103)
Nate, your first link above is broken-- the page is no longer there.
   22. The definitely immoral Eric Enders Posted: May 25, 2005 at 09:37 PM (#1362177)
Nate's link doesn't work because he typed an inadvertent backslash at the beginning of the url where it doesn't belong. You can view the page if you paste the address, minus the extra backslash, into your browser.
   23. Jack Burdock sans 1883 Posted: May 25, 2005 at 09:58 PM (#1362227)
D'oh. I missed the backslash-- thanks, Eric.
   24. Colin Posted: May 25, 2005 at 11:11 PM (#1362344)
I'm open to the criticism's of BPro; I find the book less satisfying than I used to myself, and I find their closed-source approach to things a little sad given the history of the effort and the way it grew out of open baseball discussion.

But in the speritif of openness, it's worth noting that this reviewer, Brock Hanke, was a co-author of a competing baseball annual, the Big Bad Baseball Annual, that never met with the commercial success of BPro. So it's entirely possible that that plays into the author's response. Perhaps not, but it's worth keeping mind as context.
   25. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2005 at 11:29 PM (#1362382)
I agree, I wasn't as happy with this years baseball pro as in the past...and a review that would have said something like that and actually gave reasoning for that review, then I could understand. There is nothing ever wrong with constructive criticism, legitimate reviewing of the product or even a simple "I don't like it". But to mask this as a review is insulting to us, the readers, it's on par with a Joe Morgan review of Billy Beanes bestselling book "Moneyball".
   26. Tango Tiger Posted: May 26, 2005 at 01:09 AM (#1362574)
I've always found that a fair review is one that shows the hits and misses in variest aspect of whatever it is you are reviewing. I don't want to know if someone liked Batman 3 or not. I want them to tell me what it is about Batman 3 that they liked and didn't like. Since my "component" tastes and the reviewer's component tastes won't be "weighted" equally, I can make my own conclusions based entirely on a fairly presented component-based review.

Ugh, I hated to get all sabermetric about that.

***

Take for example the issue on the "advertising". The reviewer could have gone to the trouble of going to the website, and hitting the glossary, and check out what's there. Then, in his review, he could say "if you don't mind logging in to see some of the equations described, there's alot of information to grasp; but if you prefer to have eveyrthing at your fingertips, bound in one volume, you might be put off; if you have to go to previous editions to get the full explanation, you might be really annoyed". So, that leaves each reader to come up with his own conclusion.

***

I for one only read the sabermetric-type articles in Prospectus. So, I've been pretty disappointed since... I think it's the 2002 one... the one with the Blue Jay (Phelps?). That edition was very good, sabermetrically. Ever since, not so much.

But, is that bad? Again, no. You could review the book and say exactly the sabermetric articles, and the Bill James hardcore guys would be disappointed, but those who just enjoy a couple of good articles would be very pleased. Again, everyone gets their own conclusion, based on the review.

***

I do think Keith did an excellent job in his Win Expectancy framework. And, there is alot of information that that would be useful to a researcher, and also verifiable.

Personally, I was annoyed of a metric called "Leverage", but, that's something that would only bother me. But, personally again, Keith was kind enough to use my run distribution program, even though his almost exactly as good as mine.

***

I found BP 2005 to really be a mixed bag. The mix was not for me. But, at 40,000 or 50,000 units (or whatever it is), that's a very powerful message that's being bought by people around the country.

A "fair and balanced" review would have described enough "hits" that could explain the kinds of people that actually buy BP.

***

If the reviewer could not do this kind of job, then TWO reviewers, each taking one side, would have been appropriate.
   27. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: May 26, 2005 at 03:25 AM (#1362688)
I don't want to know if someone liked Batman 3 or not. I want them to tell me what it is about Batman 3 that they liked and didn't like.

I liked Nicole Kidman's looks.

I loathed everything else.
   28. rdfc Posted: May 26, 2005 at 04:13 AM (#1362697)
This article had no resemblance to an actual book review; it's an ideological screed that has more in comparison with the work of someone like Jerry Falwell or Fred Phelps than anything else.

Next up I expect a review of Microsoft Office claiming that the program is terrible because the reviewer can't get a look at the source code.
   29. Declino DeShields Posted: May 26, 2005 at 09:30 AM (#1362801)
There are so many errors and petty axes to grind foisted up by the Prospectus team that a critical yet fair review, even absent "sabermetric concerns," is viable. The Washington Nationals essay alone, actually is sufficient---what with the fantom fear of Montreal protesters at an event totally ripped from its factual timeline and incorrectly calling a righthanded pitcher lefthanded and all.

But this review is lazy, petty, and irresponsible. I've grown tired of the Prospectus team's product in the past couple of years, but I commend Nate Silver for his response in this thread. He could have gone ape-**** but to his credit did not.
   30. Disenfranchised Expos Fan Posted: May 26, 2005 at 09:56 AM (#1362841)
My 2 cents:

I don't think this was a fair review at all. It seems pretty obvious to me that the author had an axe to grind, and I'm pretty sure that I know why (wasn't Hanke a contributor to BBBA? The venom towards BP from BBBA completely turned me off of BBBA. The rancor got in the way of the analysis, to the point that slamming BP became the main focus of BBBA. This essay would have fit right in with the last couple of BBBA; there's a reason the BBBA doesn't exist anymore).

I'll also agree with some of the points that have been raised above - BP DOES publish real stats, and much of the "missing" information is available on the web site. I'll add that while each individual book might not explain in detail the exact methodology used, the entire collection of BP books as a whole does actually explain a lot of the methodology (and the website adds even more).

that doesn't mean that BP is above criticism - I've got some problems with the development of BP over the last few years myself. My primary criticism is that they change their "baseline" for their adjusted stats every year, which makes it difficult/impossible to analyze their systems over a number of years. My second criticism is that as the years have passed, they've moved away from what BP was originally intended to be - sabrmetric analysis of baseball with a little bit of commentary thrown in. The sabrmetric side of BP is fading; the "commentary" side is ascendant. Don't get me wrong, there are still a couple of pretty good analysts at BP (Davenport, Silver; I've really enjoyed Jazayerli's recent series on the draft as well - he's probably the best mix of commentary and analysis they have right now). But they're in the distinct minority, compared to the "commentary" guys. And many of the commentary guys don't really seem to understand the analysis side of things, and serve merely as attack dogs/cheerleaders of the BP way. I never saw one of the "analysis" guys defend BP's defensive numbers with much strength - they were aware that the system had some major flaws, but it was the best they were capable of doing at the time. Some of the "commentary" guys, though, championed BP's defensive numbers as the best thing since sliced bread, and crapped all over any other defensive evaluations.

Anyway, BP isn't perfect, but it's far better than the review states. I am disappointed with the direction BP is heading in (less real analysis, and more towards the realms of the type of "mediocy" that drove them to start BP in the first place), but it's still worth checking out.
   31. Danny Posted: May 26, 2005 at 10:18 AM (#1362893)
I did not check the web site out; I was assigned to review a book.

It's one thing if a guy writes a slanted review and then submits it for posting at BTF. I think there should be some sort of quality control for the articles posted to the main page, but that's just my opinion. I think it's a different matter, however, if Hanke was actually assigned by BTF to write this review. It should have been obvious that he simply has an axe to grind, and a quick skim of the article before posting it would have confirmed this.
   32. Mister High Standards Posted: May 26, 2005 at 11:35 AM (#1363064)
I think BBBA was a far better annual than BP.

I've been disapointed with the team essays and the player comments for some time, but this is the first time that I was disapointed by the fungoes.

At a book signing I asked Joe Sheehan to account for the complete miss on the Blue Jays article in the previous years version. He more or less washed his hands of it, and said I wrote this years blue jays article not last years. Lets talk about that.

I'm also bored of the fact that almost every team essay only evaluates the job of the GM, rather than talking about the team and what it did. I would say in years past 22 of 30 team essays would be intresting, now 22 of 30 say more or less the same things. I like the format they took with the Giants essay a couple of years ago where they explained that the Giants were very good at getting above expected performance from veterans.

I also don't like that every player comment is more or less the same length, and as another poster mentioned more often than not is a snidey joke rather than some useful information.
   33. Disenfranchised Expos Fan Posted: May 26, 2005 at 11:44 AM (#1363084)
BBBA WAS a far better annual than BP when BBBA focused on being a baseball annual and not an extended anti-BP diatribe. The anti-BP venon, snideness and snarkiness made the last couple of BBBAs unreadable, and is a big reason why BBBA is no longer published. IMHO.
   34. kevin Posted: May 26, 2005 at 12:34 PM (#1363205)
It's the abuse of statistics I find off-putting.

For instance, in theis year's annual, they present two scatterplots (in the Phillies section, I believe) to illustrate the difference in variation of two similar statisitics (I can't remember which ones but I think they have to do with pitching).

Anyway, they say "as the scatterplots show" to highlight the point they are trying to make.

Well, maybe what they are saying is correct but I looked at the two plots for about 15 minutes and, if you erased the titles, I wouldn't have been able to tell one from the other.
   35. strong silence Posted: May 26, 2005 at 12:38 PM (#1363216)
Nate,
Can you explain and justify the essay written by Derek Zumsteg, in which his venomous name-calling and other cheap shots about Pat Gillick, got by the editors? This essay is mere speculation and isn't even Derek's forte, which is player forecasting.

I'm really surprised that the cheap shots, at a minimum, were not deleted.
   36. Jimmy P Posted: May 26, 2005 at 12:42 PM (#1363218)
I think it'd be nice if maybe in the intro BP put what was considered "replacement level" at each position for each league. I know it's not too hard to calculate, but it'd only take a page, and it'd give some nice context. Especially if you read in bed and don't have a computer with you.

And, the sarcasm was getting too much this year. It almost seemed spiteful toward certain players, management, and other writers. We get the idea that Russ Ortiz is a bad signing, we don't need it mentioned in every chapter. Sarcasm and humor are fine, but it has to have a point and relate to the player being discussed.

Other than that, I thought it was a good book. it gave me what I wanted and expected, so I'm not disappointed.
   37. strong silence Posted: May 26, 2005 at 01:03 PM (#1363256)
In the interest of disclosure, I enjoy Bpro's annual and have no grudge against DZ. Simply, the expertise of the writer should match the subject. Bpro has enough talented analysts that an insightful essay for each team should be easy to achieve.

I don't understand the venom toward Gillick when he was primarily responsible for building the best team Seattle has ever seen.
   38. The Balls of Summer Posted: May 26, 2005 at 01:23 PM (#1363298)
To clarify my complaint about cheap jokes - my problem is not with humor, but with the player comments that have nothing to do with that player. An example:

Dustan Mohr - Mohr had a breakout year, getting on base 40% of the time and hitting some monster home runs. Does his player comment talk about his likelihood to repeat, or whether it was a good idea for Sabean to non-tender him?

No, the player comment slags Michael Tucker, barely mentioning Mohr. Never mind that Tucker had his own entry in the chapter for them to do that.

I love the humor aspect, in fact, that's one of the biggest reasons I buy the book. The Indians chapter last year was comic genius. But that can be done while still remaining topical and giving good information.
   39. strong silence Posted: May 26, 2005 at 02:13 PM (#1363409)
The projections describe the likelihood of a repeat performane.

I like when the analyst states his opinion about the Pecota projection. It gives me a sense that the analyst has considered non-statistical information that Pecota does not evaluate.
   40. Mike Emeigh Posted: May 26, 2005 at 02:46 PM (#1363495)
I think it is important to understand what BPros has become, and evaluate it in that context, rather than evaluating it based on what one might like it to be. BPros has been tilting toward the roto/fantasy players for a number of years now, because that's where the market for preseason annuals is. That's why the player sections are so large and the analysis sections are less large. I understand that and don't object to it, but I don't spend a lot of time reading those sections, either. I also don't blame them for keeping a lot of what they do "under the hood", in that context - the business of fantasy forecasting is such that you don't want to give out too much info about your methods, and I don't see anyone criticizing other fantasy annual authors for not giving out info about their forecasting systems in their books.

As a guide for roto/fantasy players, BPros is superior to anything else out there. But if you want cutting-edge sabermetric analysis a la the James Abstracts of the '80s, you need to look elsewhere; that is not where BPros is today.

-- MWE
   41. Mike Emeigh Posted: May 26, 2005 at 02:51 PM (#1363511)
BTF reviews are voluntary; no one is *assigned* to a review unless he's asked for it.

-- MWE
   42. richie allen Posted: May 26, 2005 at 04:57 PM (#1363898)
I was drawn to BPro because back in the day it took a difference stance to all the mainstream bleugh, and made for interesting reading. Unfortunately, and a bit like Rob Neyer, it became less leading edge and more mainstream (reflecting changing times), and therefore almost inevitably isn't what it once was to those who it first needed to become what it is. And that's a very messy series of words I've just typed...

BPro is still a great thing to have around for looking up players.
   43. richie allen Posted: May 26, 2005 at 06:05 PM (#1364025)
incidentally, Don seems to have stopped his blog... since it was linked to from here. Hopefully a coincidence, but a shame, I liked reading his work.
   44. Jesse Barfield's Right Arm Posted: May 27, 2005 at 06:49 PM (#1366824)
Just wanted to add the opinion of someone who has only bougt BPro for the last two years.

I first picked up the annual after checking out the sight a couple of times and could easily understand most of the articles and player comments. What I needed to know I got (for free!) at the Internet sight. Maybe its only me, but i get most of the references and find the writing a refreshing break from mainstrean (re: cooporatized blather) articles about baseball.

On the review, the reviewer's desicion not to view the website is simply irresponsible and indicates an astonishing level of arrogance. The combination of poor writing and a curious amount of pathos (come on, a fatal flaw for a f'in baseball book, get over yourself) was new to me at this website. Platchke and Beaton included, this is one of the poorest displays of journalism I have ever seen here.
   45. MichaelW Posted: May 29, 2005 at 05:08 AM (#1369495)
Besides being a contributor to Big Baseball Annual, Brock Hanke also wrote an earlier baseball spring annual that also failed. (I've got the edition that said DON'T DRAFT GREG MADDUX in all caps!) As others have noted, he's also associated with a website that has been a legal adversary of Baseball Prospectus. These conflicts should have been mentioned in the review.

Frankly, I preferred the Big Baseball Annual for most of its history but agree that the last two issues were hard to tolerate. However, I still enjoy Baseball Prospectus too -- I don't see any better annual out there.

The comparisons to Bill James are rather ironic. He's not exactly the poster boy for open source, is he? Not only does he not publish anything the last couple of years, he can't even answer various questions in interviews due to his employment by the Boston Red Sox.

PECOTA is pretty clearly marketed as a proprietary projection system. I don't know that publishing the details of a projection system are going to contribute to sabermetric understanding very much anyway. Also, I don't think that the legendary Bill James ever published a complete set of formulas for the Brock6 projection system or its progeny.

That being said, it sure would be nice to publish formulas behind the other statistics, but it wouldn't bother me if they were part of a glossary of the free portion of their website.

Great debate, guys. I love it when book reviews are opinated even if I don't agree with them all.
   46. jnhighland Posted: May 29, 2005 at 09:04 AM (#1369543)
What do people like about Alfonso Soriano? I consider him the most overrated player in Baseball.
   47. Luke Gofannon Posted: May 30, 2005 at 11:22 AM (#1371498)
Hey, what happened to all those Money Ballers gloating about the Dodgers' great start and claiming that it was only the batters, but not the pitchers, who stink on the A's?
   48. 8ball Posted: June 01, 2005 at 01:46 AM (#1373739)
Very disappointed in the quality of this "review". The previous posters hit it pretty much on the head. This seems like a platform for a petty individual to play David to BP's Goliath, and I'm disappointed in BTF's decision to facilitate it.

And as a sidenote, Hanke says that the book costs $17.95...I bought mine new for $12.21, and if one goes to the wretched, evil website, one would see it advertised for that price...
   49. Will B. Posted: June 02, 2005 at 09:05 PM (#1378208)
I for one buy the book every year and enjoy it. I like the sarcastic comments and am put off by reading through tons of formulas. In fact, I typically skip through them. I tend to only give a glance at the stats listed and focus more on the player blurbs and the team articles.

I'm a BPro website subscriber not for their PECOTA projections or their in depth statistical methodologies, but more for their insightful articles and their unique features like "Under the Knife."

I hope the people who read this article won't be so put off as to not give Baseball Prospectus a chance. It falls somewhere between Rob Neyer and hardcore number crunching, and I appreciate and enjoy that.
   50. danup Posted: June 03, 2005 at 06:06 PM (#1380100)
MichaelW, you're thinking about the Baseball Sabermetric, I think. I got the 1993 edition at a used book store in Cooperstown; it's good stuff, though it could've used an editor.
   51. .308/.377/.545 (Tom D) Posted: June 04, 2005 at 08:06 AM (#1380931)
It was in fact Baseball Sabermetric. Mr. Hanke, a Cardinal fan, would occasionally use it as a platform for Met bashing. I recall he referred to the Mets as "Pond Scum", a proprietary sabermetric term not explained anywhere in the book.
   52. therealnod Posted: June 04, 2005 at 11:05 PM (#1382223)
This was a...fun thread.
I think any point I was going to make got made for me, but I can add this:
I don't participate in rotoball. I have read BP every year since 2002, mostly because it can be, at times, incredibly entertaining. My mom's husband is a rotogeek. He's purchased BP every year since 2002, forsaking another rotoball annual. He's a bright guy.

One of the aspects of BP that I feel has been overlooked is the fact that they are constantly losing their talent to major league ballclubs. Gone are Keith Law, Gary Huckaby,and Doug Pappas (sadly, to death). That's some serious exodus of quality analysts. That's not to say that their replacements are inadequate, but replacing writers of that caliber has just got to be flat-out difficult. (Particularly Pappas. He was just great. I miss the hell out of that guy.)
   53. villageidiom Posted: June 06, 2005 at 12:07 PM (#1384722)
Very disappointed in the quality of this "review". The previous posters hit it pretty much on the head.

I agree completely.

This seems like a platform for a petty individual to play David to BP's Goliath,

It certainly appears that way, doesn't it?

and I'm disappointed in BTF's decision to facilitate it.

This is where I disagree. I'm thrilled that they facilitated it.

What BTF brings to the table moreso than other sites is discussion of content. To the extent that a bad article appears on another site, the lack of reasoned discussion and debate leaves me wondering if the whole world has gone mad, or soon will. I'm left wondering if people really think that way, and how many simple minds will be corrupted by having read the article.

Not so here. Already we're more than 50 comments in, most of which agree that this was a hacktastic article. That alone gives a fair amount of guidance. But even with those comments, some are pointing out ways in which the article was indeed accurate. Others are offering truly constructive criticism, suggesting ways in which the review would have been more helpful.

I think we're all better off for this discussion having taken place. Without BTF, I doubt that it would have.

(Cue Ronan Tynan.)
   54. johnny_mostil Posted: June 25, 2005 at 07:19 PM (#1430937)
Also, I don't think that the legendary Bill James ever published a complete set of formulas for the Brock6 projection system or its progeny.

Uh, yeah he did, in the back of one of the abstracts, and I remember entering it into 1-2-3.
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